Saying you are without sin verses in 1 John

[Bible Highlighter]

Incorrect, you show me ONE verse that says "we" can "grab", to use your propositions. Can
be/may be obtained in THIS life, you are doing a lot of philosophizing not cutting straight the word of the Lord.


Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
See here?

Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Rom 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought:

but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Rom 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
God's Everlasting Love
Rom 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Rom 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Rom 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

You need to to some inductive bible study, and use biblical terminologies found in scriptures.
When were we adopted?
J.

It would be helpful if you quoted the context (Which refutes your sin and still be saved belief).

Romans 8:13 says: “For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”

The word “flesh” here in Romans 8:13 is in reference to sin.

Galatians 5:19 says, “Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,”

So if you live after sin, you will die (i.e. die spiritually or die the second death), but if mortify (put to death) the deeds of the body (sin) by the Spirit, you shall live (i.e. live eternally).

Romans 8:1 says:
“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”

There is no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus who walk not after the flesh (sin), but who walk after the Spirit.

In other words, if you walk after sin (Which is what the sin and still be saved belief advocates), then you are under the Condemnation. For God cannot condone anyone’s sin.

Obviously to be focused on how you must always sin is to be carnally minded.

Romans 8:6
“For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.”

Now, your defense is in how you must sin again and yet be saved.

However, Romans 8:5 says,
“For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.”

Flesh here is sin. Those who are after sin do mind the things that are sinful, but they that are truly after the Spirit are mindful of the things of the Spirit in trying to obey God. You are not about obedience to God, but you are for disobedience to God. That’s what is messed up. That’s why you have no patience and you are easily angered on this topic. You are trying to justify sin. But Jude 1:4 warns us against those who turn God’s grace into a license for immorality.

 

[Johann]

Okay, you win. There is only groaning in this life and no rest to enter into now through trust. There is only groaning and then death but no entering into the kingdom of God now. Has that made you happy?

On the contrary, I need to study my bible more and spend less time on the Internet.
J.

 

[ChristisGod]

On the contrary, I need to study my bible more and spend less time on the Internet.
J.

Then do that lol who is stopping you ?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

I need to study my bible more

Do not study the Bible.

Read and meditate on it:

“Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all. Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.” (1 Timothy 4:15-16)

“…in his law doth he meditate day and night.” (Psalms 1:2)

Studying can lead to error through the flesh:

“…much study is a weariness of the flesh.” (Ecclesiastes 12:12)

That’s the problem these days; so many students but not enough obedient hearers.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Do not study the Bible.

Read and meditate on it:

“Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all. Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.” (1 Timothy 4:15-16)

“…in his law doth he meditate day and night.” (Psalms 1:2)

Studying can lead to error through the flesh:

“…much study is a weariness of the flesh.” (Ecclesiastes 12:12)

That’s the problem these days; so many students but not enough obedient hearers.

Yes, and it would also involve looking at the whole counsel of God’s Word, too. There are a lot of uncomfortable verses that many ignore (or twist to their own destruction) so as to defend a sin and still be saved type belief. Not only is it morally wrong, but it goes against what the Bible plainly says in many places. One’s heart is in the wrong place to begin with if a person is setting out to justify sin. Lets pray they have not hardened their heart by sin. For that’s a dangerous place to be according to Hebrews 3.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

On the contrary, I need to study my bible more and spend less time on the Internet.
J.

Is studying your Bible all there is to it? Jesus told men who had studied theirs from a very young age that they did not understand it. Can you imagine dedicating your entire life to that study to then be told you didn’t understand it?? How could you spend your entire life studying a book yet not understand it…?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I think studying is good. 2 Timothy 2:15 in the King James Bible says study to shew yourself approved unto GOD. It is not to study to show yourself approved unto men. You will get plenty of men approving of you if you study in a way that caters to your sin. But to study in a way that is wholesome and good to show yourself approved unto GOD is another matter. God obviously does not want anyone to sin or to justify sin. So we have to study the Bible with the right mind set in truly trying to please Him who cannot be tricked or fooled in us doing wrong.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Studying needs to be done with the Anointing of the Holy Spirit whereby one does not need any man to teach them (1 John 2:26).
God can teach us all things in His Word. But we have to ask for it and we cannot hold any wrong or evil in our hearts or God will not hear us. Meaning, we cannot think we must sin again or we are a slave to doing evil. God is good, and His people are good, too. It’s why they are called saints and not sinners. Yes, we start off as undeserving and as nothing. But with Christ living in us, we can do all things through Christ which strengthens us. We are to let the good work Christ began in us and let Him finish it in our lives.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

LOL. If I had a dollar for every time I heard someone claiming to the the righteous one. People need to know themselves and stop trying to exalt themselves and justify themselves. The Pharisee will always claim to be the Publican and the Publican (because he is humble...of all things) will claim to be the Pharisee. Every time. :)

Discerning the flesh is the easiest thing to do once you turn the world back the way it should be :)

I believe the problem with the Pharisee in Luke 18:9-14 is that he was making salvation all about living holy alone without God’s grace. Whereas the Tax Collector recognized God’s saving grace and sought forgiveness with the Lord. The parable does not say whether the Tax Collector was being saved for the first time by God’s grace or whether it was a later point in his life where he needed grace again. But the point of the parable is clearly grace. But the problem is not reading this parable in balance to the rest of Jesus’ words. Jesus also said to two other people to “sin no more” (John 5:14) (John 8:11). Jesus said everyone who does not do what He says is like a fool who built his house upon the sand and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house (Matthew 7:26-27). This is the context of Matthew 7:22-23 where Jesus told certain believers to depart from Him because they worked iniquity (sin). Jesus basically says those who do not receive His words, those words will judge that person on the last day (John 12:48). So if a person does not receive Matthew 5:28-30 or Matthew 6:15 (Which sounds like most of Christianity today), those words will judge these Christians on the last day (if they violate them). This is why I see salvation in two aspects. I see the 1st aspect of salvation as God’s grace with no works (Ephesians 2:8-9), and then I see the 2nd aspect of salvation as Sanctification of the Spirit to live a holy life (2 Thessalonians 2:13). For if the Bible was all about grace and no change in your life, then there would be no warnings against falling away or for sinning, etcetera. If the Bible was all about holy living and no grace, then there would be no strong emphasis by the apostle Paul on God’s grace. There would be no mention of confessing of one’s sin to be forgiven of sin if it was all holy living to be saved. So believers need to have a healthy balance of both Grace, and Sanctification (When it comes to salvation).

 

[ScottA]

What is your interpretation? What is He speaking of and why?

1 John 2:18 is like the passage that says "now is the time of salvation", which Paul explained and elaborated, saying "but each one in his own order." This is the mystery of "a time, times, and half a time" spoken of by Daniel...which puts all things from the beginning to the end on and during the hour of Christ, for which Jesus rightly referred to Himself as the Beginning and the End. That mystery then and all that is foretold of the end, refers not to the end of days, but to Christ...but in the order as Paul explained as "each in his own order" until the end of days. Even so, all that is written did come upon that generation to whom Jesus spoke, saying "this generation."

And this mystery that has not been known until now, we can now know because we now know that time is an illusion only existing in the world and not in the kingdom.

 

[BarneyFife]

I don't need a crystal ball as such.
Do you not invite friends or family home for a meal, but rather the poor, blind lame and beggars so you may receive your reward in Heaven?
If you have ever fasted, have you so much as hinted to others you are fasting?
If someone stole something of yours, would you give them more besides what they stole, with nothing but love in your heart for them?
If people persecute you, and malign you, would you have nothing but love in your heart for them?
If you are persecuted, do you truly leap for joy, constantly?
If anyone asked to borrow from you, would you give to them without expecting anything back?
Do you truly in your heart love your enemies, those who may be unkind to you, slander you, or malign you?

I, myself, and people I know, try to do all these things with every bit of grace we manage to allow God to lavish upon us.

His commandments are not grievous.

The standard of conduct for Christians is Christ, Himself.

He is perfect. Our Father in Heaven is perfect, and we are commanded to be perfect, even as He is perfect.

I don't know how God will accomplish this in us, and I don't see myself as even being close to the standard.

But I will not mock that which Christ has commanded with buzzwords and theological terms and slurs like "sinless perfection."

And I will not lower the standard (something I could never do, anyway) simply because it appears to me that most Christians are not pursuing the standard by the grace of God.

I love Jesus because I have observed Him, and recognized Him as something to be supremely cherished and desired. I want to be like Him. I love to read about Him and study His manner of self-sacrificing love.

When I was a child, I understood that it was wrong to do evil. It was so simple.

Now, I am an adult, and all I see from so many who are called by His name is self-justification

Righteousness has always been by faith. The kind I had as a child.

If I cannot become more like Jesus as time goes by, I don't want to live. For me, to live is Christ.

My insufficient performance notwithstanding there is no excuse for sin of any kind.

There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. (1 Corinthians 10:13)

I pray God will bless you as you continue to learn of Him and His Son whom to know is life eternal.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Php 3:4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
Php 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
Php 3:6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
Php 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
Php 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
Php 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Php 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Php 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

Straining Toward the Goal
Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect:....as most here unashamedly claim...

but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Php 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Php 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
Is Paul, himself not perfect, saying the others are perfect?

perfect] An adjective, not a perfect participle, as was the kindred word (“perfected”) in Php_3:12.—Is there a contradiction between this place and that? On the surface, but not really. The Apostle appears to be taking up the favourite word of teachers who upheld some phase of “perfectionism,” and using it, with loving irony, on the side of truth; as if to say, “Are you, are we, ideal Christians, perfect Christians, all that Christians should be? Then among the things that should be in our character is a holy discontent with, and criticism of, our own present attainment.

The man in this sense ‘perfect’ will be sure to think himself not perfected.”—And it is important to remember that the Greek word rendered “perfect” is an elastic word. It may mean “adult,” “mature,” as against infantine; cp. Heb_5:13-14.

A “perfect” Christian in this respect may have spiritual faculty well developed, and yet be very far from “perfected” in spiritual character.—Such considerations, in the light of this whole passage, will do anything for such a Christian rather than teach him to tolerate sin in himself; they will at once keep him humble and contrite, and animate him to ever fresh developments in and by Christ.

Do you understand?
J.

It sounds like you don’t like the word “perfect” because it goes against your preferred sin and still be saved theology.

But Jesus says:
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. (See: Matthew 5:48).

The Father is perfect, and not matured.

 

[marks]

I’ll have to keep thinking abide in Me means: remain in trust in Me, keep trusting Me. Otherwise, the verse would have nothing to do with me and would have no encouragement for me.

John 15:2 KJV
2) Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

What is purged away?

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

It sounds like you don’t like the word “perfect” because it goes against your preferred sin and still be saved theology.

That’s a bit out of line…not all men want to sin, they just know they do and cannot always control bitter angers, being offended, etc., because of their flesh warring with the Spirit. They see it is impossible for them, and they have that part right. They do not yet also see that with God all things are possible.

But here’s a warning, from someone whose flesh has been put under their feet through trust and grace. There are still deeper spots and stains remaining in a man than he himself can see.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall; or "sin", as the Vulgate Latin and Arabic versions render it; not that they should never fall at all, or in any sense, for in many things we all offend or fall; or should ever commit any act of sin, or fall into sin, for there is no man that lives, and sins not;

I see you believe your human reasoning over the power of God, and want to add your own reasoning to His word.

 

[Episkopos]

That’s a bit out of line…not all men want to sin, they just know they do and cannot always control bitter angers, being offended, etc., because of their flesh warring with the Spirit. They see it is impossible for them, and they have that part right. They do not yet also see that with God all things are possible.

But here’s a warning, from someone whose flesh has been put under their feet through trust and grace. There are still deeper spots and stains remaining in a man than he himself can see.

This is true. That's why the outer man needs to go to the cross in order to walk in the Spirit. The sin nature is contained within the outer man and holds the inner man in bondage until liberated by the cross to walk in resurrection life.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

1 John 2:18 is like the passage that says "now is the time of salvation", which Paul explained and elaborated, saying "but each one in his own order." This is the mystery of "a time, times, and half a time" spoken of by Daniel...which puts all things from the beginning to the end on and during the hour of Christ, for which Jesus rightly referred to Himself as the Beginning and the End. That mystery then and all that is foretold of the end, refers not to the end of days, but to Christ...but in the order as Paul explained as "each in his own order" until the end of days. Even so, all that is written did come upon that generation to whom Jesus spoke, saying "this generation."

And this mystery that has not been known until now, we can now know because we now know that time is an illusion only existing in the world and not in the kingdom.

Scott, you do know that 7 years is broken in half in two 3.5 year periods:

In scripture they are written prophetically as:

1260 days
time, times and half a time
42 months
2300 morning and evenings.
1 week

Think about that and see what else you can come up with.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

John 15:2 KJV
2) Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

What is purged away?

Much love!

It’s drastic cutting back of a tree so that all dead wood is removed so the tree can hopefully bounce back and be more fruitful. But it’s drastic. The tree might die, that’s always a possibility. I had thought about our big, beautiful crepe myrtle after they did this to it, that there was no way it would survive it. It was just a big stick in the ground. But it did bounce back. It isn’t as puffed up and glorious as it was, but it’s going to live.

 

[marks]

Is the running, then, what's important, rather than the grabbing?

Being made "conformable to His death".

I understand Paul to be speaking of living in a spiritually resurrected state without lapse.

Continuous faith, continuous walking in the Spirit, old man having been "put off", and not come back.

I understand that life is given as a gift of faith from God, and that as our faith becomes stronger, more consistent, so likewise will will walk in the Spirit.

Much love!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

We look at minor faults differently. You see it as sins of ignorance.

Right off the bat I want to correct your first sentence before I read anything more.

His children are not ignorant forever, or even for long. What He starts He finishes. That goes for knowledge too.