How Can Them with No Sin, have Sin?

[robert derrick]

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

How can them in Christ, not have their sins taken away, so there is no sins with them, As well as be in Him in whom there is no sin, yet still have sin? Whether with them or in them?

Does Christ have no sin in Him, and yet has sin in His members?

If the body has sin, then so does the Head.

Unless, of course, the body has no head, and the body is dead.

In which case, there is no sin in a dead body anyway.

We conclude therefore, it is not possible for the Head to have no sin, with a body having sin.

Either the body has no sin and is alive with the Head, wherein is no sin, or the body is dead without a head, and has no sin anyway.

The tradition teaching about 'having no sin', made by confirmed sinners, must obviously be false.

 

[Jack]

Only Jesus has "no sin".

 

[MatthewG]

Hello Robert,

I believe the duality of a Christian is the natural flesh and the spiritual side when one is born from above, having the spirit of God within them, and also the spirit of Christ within them.

When we abiding in Christ there is no sin because he cannot sin, when are moved by the spirit we will not sin. Believers won’t have bad thoughts of others when they abide in Christ. Sometimes as believers we get in our flesh that naturally is only selfish and it can start having bad thoughts about others.

So there is a duality, the Flesh vs the Spirit.

You may see things differently and that is okay, just desired to share this as I believe it is wholly what the Bible presents, in consideration of Paul with a thorn in his side yet Gods grace was sufficient, also how Paul wrote to the Galatians about the Flesh vs Spirit.

Thank you for your time and patience.

 

[Episkopos]

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

How can them in Christ, not have their sins taken away, so there is no sins with them, As well as be in Him in whom there is no sin, yet still have sin? Whether with them or in them?

Does Christ have no sin in Him, and yet has sin in His members?

If the body has sin, then so does the Head.

Unless, of course, the body has no head, and the body is dead.

In which case, there is no sin in a dead body anyway.

We conclude therefore, it is not possible for the Head to have no sin, with a body having sin.

Either the body has no sin and is alive with the Head, wherein is no sin, or the body is dead without a head, and has no sin anyway.

The tradition teaching about 'having no sin', made by confirmed sinners, must obviously be false.

How can them? or better yet...how can they? ;)

There are 2 levels to being in Christ. There is a temporal Body present on earth among living believers and there is the eternal Body of Christ for those who abide in Him.

What does a temporal Body mean? This world is a simulation of reality. As such the churches can be filled with simulation Christians. Only those who are spiritual in Christ occupy the heavenly place where Jesus is. In Him is no sin. Those who abide in Him (in eternal reality) don't sin. They walk in God's presence and power.

However, we live in a temporal simulation where there are many things that are decoys or counterfeits. Some believers are walking beyond the lower order of the world...but most are not.

Most people don't realize where they are not.

Do we sin? Then we are walking in the simulation...still under the law. Are we walking in a supernatural light, love, peace and joy that doesn't stop???? Then we are living in the eternal reality where Jesus is. We are walking in His resurrection eternal life.

There is a duality to the church. The earthly churches do not usually reflect their heavenly mandate. Saints don't fit into man-made institutions.

The correct order of the Church of God is to let the saints rule. Then the Church can be guided by the Spirit.

 

[Behold]

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1.) """The body is DEAD because of sin.""

2.) The Old Man is "crucified with Christ", and you are to "reckon (esteem it dead).""

3.) """"If the Truth is in us... Then that is JESUS, who is the Truth'""", who is in us..

4.) So, if the Truth, who is JESUS is now in Spiritual Union with your Spirit, then your born again Spirit has to be sinless, or you would not be a Son/Daughter of God, or have become "Born Again".

The issue that confused believers have, is that they dont understand, due to terrible teaching in their cult, or Church, that the BORN AGAIN , SON OF GOD, part of you, is not your BODY........Its your SPIRIT.
And once you can understand this, then you will understand what PART of you God has redeemed, SAVED, and has become a part of the Eternal Life that is found by being Joined to Jesus, Spiritually.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

How can them in Christ, not have their sins taken away, so there is no sins with them, As well as be in Him in whom there is no sin, yet still have sin? Whether with them or in them?

Does Christ have no sin in Him, and yet has sin in His members?

If the body has sin, then so does the Head.

Unless, of course, the body has no head, and the body is dead.

In which case, there is no sin in a dead body anyway.

We conclude therefore, it is not possible for the Head to have no sin, with a body having sin.

Either the body has no sin and is alive with the Head, wherein is no sin, or the body is dead without a head, and has no sin anyway.

The tradition teaching about 'having no sin', made by confirmed sinners, must obviously be false.

YOur understanding of Scriptures is warped. You value human reasoning over the written word of god in almost all your writings.

 

[Behold]

YOur understanding of Scriptures is warped. You value human reasoning over the written word of god in almost all your writings.

Pauline Theology is not Warped.
Check you own self saving religion, as there is your "twisted", found, and displayed, Ronald Nolette.

 

[robert derrick]

Only Jesus has "no sin".

This is of course a non-answer to the question: how can them in Christ have sin in them, when there is no sin in Christ?

This response is that of those seeking to worship Jesus as God, but only idolize His life as a man, that they would say cannot be lived by any other man on earth, even those naming His name, and claiming to be born of Him.

They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

When someone knows God and Jesus Christ within, they then become purified like Him in the soul, and walk like Him in the flesh.

It's called being born again alive and clean to no more sin like sinners that don't know Him, neither lusting to sin within the heart, nor committing the sin with the flesh.

 

[GEN2REV]

We conclude therefore, ...

I think I agree with the gist of that.

But who is 'we'?

 

[robert derrick]

Only Jesus has "no sin".

To be Scripturally correct, Jesus did no sin as a man, and there is no sin in Him: no Scripture quotes Jesus ever saying, I have no sin. He wouldn't even say I am good.

Why callest thou me good?

There is no sin in them that are in Jesus Christ, even as there is no sin in Jesus Christ: it's not possible for the body of Christ to be sinning against our own Head.

And so, the Scripture of us not saying we have no sin, cannot mean we do have sin and there is lust for sin still in our heart and mind, much less are we command to say we have sin and are sinning.

The first work of Jesus within the believer is to purify the soul of lust for sin, and to cleanse the mind of unrighteous thoughts for sinning.

And the believer is commanded with power to keep ourselves pure in heart.

And so, while we may not say We have no sin, even as Jesus never did on earth, we certainly are not commanded to say We have sin in us, and are all sinners, even as Jesus did not.

That is what the hypocrites demand all Christians to say and do, just like themselves.

I won't obey their commands to either sin or to say I am sinning, because then I would be a liar like themselves, who say they know Him, and yet are sinning against His commandments:

He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

 

[ScottA]

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

How can them in Christ, not have their sins taken away, so there is no sins with them, As well as be in Him in whom there is no sin, yet still have sin? Whether with them or in them?

Does Christ have no sin in Him, and yet has sin in His members?

If the body has sin, then so does the Head.

Unless, of course, the body has no head, and the body is dead.

In which case, there is no sin in a dead body anyway.

We conclude therefore, it is not possible for the Head to have no sin, with a body having sin.

Either the body has no sin and is alive with the Head, wherein is no sin, or the body is dead without a head, and has no sin anyway.

The tradition teaching about 'having no sin', made by confirmed sinners, must obviously be false.

You laid it all out but have not understood.

This is the sign of John the Baptist having lost his head.

And what did Jesus say, who has He given His body to, saying, "take eat?" He has given it to those who were crucified with Him--so, yes, the body has (past tense) died--and now lives as Christ lives.

And, yes, you were right...there is no sin in that body.

 

[robert derrick]

I think I agree with the gist of that.

But who is 'we'?

Me for one, and any other Christian saint pure in heart, and not sinning with the devil.

While I will not say "I have no sin", which is a sin against Scripture, I will say I am not sinning now today, much less will I say, as do the hypocrites, I am a sinner still sinning, but saved 'by grace'. The Spirit of grace is our helping power not to be sinning today.

The only difference between the born again Christian, and the babe first born from the womb, is that we have sinned, and so have knowledge of sinning against God in the past: We've all eaten of the fruit to be gods and law unto ourselves.

Apart from the past sins were are forgiven and washed clean from, we are just as pure and innocent in conscience as any other newborn babe on earth.

When newborn babes learn to know I am in their own consciences, they will also learn to know good from evil. So far, the only one choosing good only, and never doing the evil unto the end, was Jesus.

Is it not curious that Paul says all have sinned, after Jesus came in the flesh? That's one man who did no sinning with His flesh, nor within His heart, all the days of His flesh on earth.

And so, all men have sinned does not speak of Jesus, much less does it say all men are now sinning, especially not them walking with Jesus hand in hand in His steps both in spirit and in body:

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

 

[GEN2REV]

Me for one, and any other Christian saint pure in heart, and not sinning with the devil.

Gotcha

 

[robert derrick]

Hello Robert,

I believe the duality of a Christian is the natural flesh and the spiritual side when one is born from above, having the spirit of God within them, and also the spirit of Christ within them.

When we abiding in Christ there is no sin because he cannot sin, when are moved by the spirit we will not sin. Believers won’t have bad thoughts of others when they abide in Christ.

While your doctrine is true, in that if we walk after the flesh, we are sinning against God, but if we are walking after the Spirit, we cannot be sinning against God.

Note the present tense in the declaration of scripture that says them that are committing sin, cannot be born of God, because they are now a child of the devil, while sinning: God is the true God of now with all His people, not of yesterday, nor of tomorrow that may not come on earth.

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

You are also correct in acknowledging the first commandment of spiritual purity within the believer, by which they will not walk after the flesh, so long as they guard their hearts, and keep their minds from lust for sin and unrighteous thoughts against God and man.

Your only error is your dual nature theology of spirit of man vs the flesh of man, and it is the reason why you do experience wretched double mindedness from time to time:

The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

It's not the body sinning, but the soul with the body, and so it's not the body's fault for the soul sinning with it.

Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.

We are souls, not bodies. We do the sinning with the body, not the body despite the soul. If we lust, it is our spirit lusting for the flesh, not our flesh lusting despite our spiritual desire.

Once we confess this to ourselves and before God, as did David, then and only then can we repent of sinning, but knowing our power from God given to us to take no unrighteous thoughts from the devil, but rather cast them down DOA at the door.

If you don't want to walk after the flesh today, you have power to resist the devil's thoughts for doing so, and he will flee from you and and the Spirit of Christ within you.

As a saint in Christ Jesus, you no longer need experience the wretchedness of being subject to your own flesh, which has no power, nor life, nor spirit, nor will of it's own to subdue you in any way at all.

You are the new creature that has a body to reign over, no man is a body that has the soul in it's grips.

I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Cast away the false doctrine of the body being a being of itself, and believe the truth of Scripture, that your mortal flesh is your's to do with as you will, and 'it' does nothing of itself.

 

[MatthewG]

Thank you for sharing and commenting Robert.

Would you say our soul inside of us, has a (mind/will/emotion), and it the influence of what one does in their body? Is the flesh craving interaction from the toy taken away and thus leads to the response inside of the child pondering in his soul?

Such as an example “A son had has his toy taken away by his mother, that he loves to play with. While the son is pondering in his soul, after being told to go in his room, what he is going to do in how to go about getting the toy. The boy in his soul, decides and makes a choice using his body, to sneak into his mothers room and decides to steal the toy back from her possession.”

Just keep in mind this persons doesn’t have the Holy Spirit or the spirit of Christ in them because they have not come to faith yet.

Thank you for your time and patience.

 

[MatthewG]

I did edit, the post. Hope to hear what your response may be, thank you again for your time and patience.

 

[robert derrick]

So there is a duality, the Flesh vs the Spirit.

The duality is indeed spirit and flesh, not spirit vs flesh: immortal spirit and mortal flesh is the duality of man on earth.

Our fight is now the our own bodies, but with the devil tempting us to receive lust within our hearts, that we soul then sin against God with out bodies.

(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.

The flesh or the soul being made and born with sin nature is a lie that sinners and hypocrite christians use to excuse what they are and what they are doing: "It's not my fault, God created me this way." or "I was born this way."

The only difference between man and angels, is that we are immortal created beings in mortal bodies, while the angels have spiritual immortal bodies only, which is how we are therefore made a little lower than the angels wrapped in mortal flesh.

Natural man is not the body, nor is the hapless mortal body an old man of sin, pumping out lust through the body from a 'sinful' heart of flesh.

Out of the sinful heart of the soul proceeds all evil thoughts to do evil on earth, against God in the spirit first and then against man with the flesh.

Natural man is simply any man that rejects the things of the spirit and says there is no God nor soul: he gives himself entirely to the body and the things of this life. It does not necessarily make him evil, and he can be quite neighborly at times, but he cuts himself off from the Spirit and grace of God by unbelief.

If we are lusting for the flesh to sin with the flesh, the flesh has nothing to do nor say about it, being but mortal flesh, but rather our soul and spirit are receiving such lust within, and transgressing the first great commandment of the pure in heart: to love God with all the heart.

If you do not want to walk after the flesh, then you must work with the power of Christ given you, to cast down and out any unrighteous thoughts of the devil knocking at your doorstep, and put them in obedience to Christ. In this way you do not allow the devil and sin to have place within your heart, and so not to have sin reign over your mortal body:

And when the fowls came down upon the carcases, Abram drove them away.

Calling the mortal body the old man of sin born with sin nature, is the perfect lie of the devil for them that still enjoy sinning in the flesh: they think to separate the will of their soul from the deeds of their body.

With strong delusion they actually say, it's no more they which do the sinning, but only the flesh without their spiritual consent.

They also say their old man of physical body is now dead, and yet their spirits remain therein.

They are literally teaching the scripturally psychotic notion of their physical bodies being beheaded, while spiritually holding to the Head Jesus Christ.

OSAS is christian zombie-land: their old dead corrupt bodies keep doing evil things, while claiming their souls are spiritually pure and preserved in heavenly places, like so much jelly and jam in glass jars.

They think they are like those eternally preserved minds in glass bubbles from Star Trek, just waiting to get their brand-spanking new spiritual bodies, while their old hapless 'sinful' body just keeps on doing what it wants to do on earth.

One thing is for sure: while they blame their bodies for sinning against God, they certainly like the credit for doing anything good.

While they no doubt say, don't thank me, thank Jesus in me, they will never say don't thank me, thank my body that just does what it wants to do, whether good or evil.

 

[MatthewG]

Okay. Thank you for your response and comment, Robert.

 

[robert derrick]

Thank you for sharing and commenting Robert.

Would you say our soul inside of us, has a (mind/will/emotion), and it the influence of what one does in their body? Is the flesh craving interaction from the toy taken away and thus leads to the response inside of the child pondering in his soul?

The soul and spirit is the only mind, will, and emotion of man: the body has nothing of life and spirit for itself.

Without the spirit, the body is just dead flesh.

For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away.

Like grass, the flesh is mortal and nothing else: there is no spirit, nor righteousness, nor sin in grass nor in flesh of any living creature on earth, including all physical seed of man and beast.

Adam's body shaped by God from the dust was mortal, and Jesus' body shaped by the Spirit of Christ in Mary's womb was mortal flesh made of the physical seed of man: David.

Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh.

Ps 139: God creates the soul of man a living spiritual being, and places him in mortal flesh of the mother's womb.

For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.

We are souls covered with flesh in the woman's womb.

I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.

The substance of man is the same as the angels: Spiritual beings perfectly created by the Spirit, but for man secretly in the lowest parts of earth first, and also wrapped in flesh in the womb.

Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

The imperfect substance of the body of flesh and bone is created by the same Spirit through seed of man: Mortal. This is why we are made a little lower than the angels, not spiritually but bodily: we are in mortal flesh rather than immortal spiritual bodies of angels.

The hope of the saints is the resurrection of our mortal bodies into spiritual immortal bodies as the angels in heaven.

How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them!

Spiritual beings created by God and lightened with the light of Christ is the power to thin, intend, and imagine with the heart and mind: no other living creature earth has this power from Christ, who made them spirit only to inhabit mortal bodies.

Natural man does not believe it, and sinful man uses his power to lust for sin against God, and does so with the flesh: the flesh has nothng to say about it.

The flesh needs to breathe, hungers and thirsts, and need to work and rest for healthy and growth, but only the sinful soul and spirit of man makes the body drunken, gluttoned, and unnecessarily unhealthy and sickly.

Just keep in mind this persons doesn’t have the Holy Spirit or the spirit of Christ in them because they have not come to faith yet.

The only difference between sinners and saints, is saints no more take unrighteous thought and vain imagination for sinning against God, and so do not fulfill the lust of the world with the flesh: Which of course takes the Spirit of Christ living within our souls with us in mortal bodies.

That is why we are indeed of His flesh and bone, because our bodies are now His mortal body on earth, and if we endure to the end, then we too will be resurrected like His own resurrected spiritual body, which He took up from the grave.

The difference being, out spiritually resurrected bodies will not have the prints of the nails of His cross as He does.

 

[robert derrick]

1.) """The body is DEAD because of sin.""

2.) The Old Man is "crucified with Christ", and you are to "reckon (esteem it dead).""

3.) """"If the Truth is in us... Then that is JESUS, who is the Truth'""", who is in us..

4.) So, if the Truth, who is JESUS is now in Spiritual Union with your Spirit, then your born again Spirit has to be sinless, or you would not be a Son/Daughter of God, or have become "Born Again".

The issue that confused believers have, is that they dont understand, due to terrible teaching in their cult, or Church, that the BORN AGAIN , SON OF GOD, part of you, is not your BODY........Its your SPIRIT.
And once you can understand this, then you will understand what PART of you God has redeemed, SAVED, and has become a part of the Eternal Life that is found by being Joined to Jesus, Spiritually.

The physical body is mortal, not sinful.

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

The only thing alive about you is your body, because your soul and faith are dead.

Repent of your sinning, and quit blaming it on your body.

This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith.

As well as not appearing spiritually psychotic before common reason.

I.e. I wouldn't go around telling people how my body is dead. By the time I am speaking 'spiritually', and that my flesh is actually 'spiritually dead' and crucified with Christ on a cross, they'd be handing me a cat-o-nine-tails to flail my flesh and keep it dead.

OSAS is spiritual inspiration for the Davinci Code.