Being Faithful to God

[marks]

Marks, these are two men who have gone some ways with God and learned some things from Him. If they are trying to get you to see something, they are not trying to harm you.

To the one who proclaims that God's discipline can be ineffective, I point him to the place where it says that is not so.
To the one who proclaims we are completing for ourselves what Christ works in us, I point to those places where it says that is not so.
To the one who proclaims that we cannot walk as God intends us to walk, I point to those places where we are told to so walk, and those places where we are admonished to believe even though we cannot yet see.

Some seek to share a gift. Some seek self-affirmation. And that affirmation takes many forms. Each reveals themself in their words. I know you are one who seeks to give.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Does our certainty extend to thinking we are much wiser than the Jews who were chosen before us?

Do you consider the spiritual understanding given by the Holy Spirit to be wiser than those who rejected God's prophets, who rejected their Messiah?

I don't really make these kinds of comparisons myself. I know that there are many many peolpe who cannot seem to separate themselves from a legalistic performance based idea of salvation, that having been born into God's family, now you must spend the rest of your life proving to God He really birthed you. I realize that's not your POV, yours seems more that though He birthed you, if you didn't add up good enough in life He'll cast you into outer darkness, with weeping and gnashing of teeth eternally. That's your "eternal life"!

Eternal life is not a duration of life, though it is everlasting, being eternal. Eternal life is the quality of life you have when you are in relationship with God. United to Him Who has promised, I will never leave you, never forsake you. Who ever lives to make intercession. These are great and precious promises!

The Jews were chosen as a nation, and that nation demonstrated the insufficiency of Law to save corrupted man. We are chosen in Christ, who fulfills the Law in us. It's completely backwards. That's why it so hard for the natural man to understand, so hard even for the Christian without good teaching.

It's when you embrace the truth that you are both dead to sin and dead to Law, that there is in fact no more condemnation, because you have been justified in Christ, with all that means. There is so much that means, I'll save it for another post.

But it's when you embrace that reality, the power of sin drops away, the flesh ceases to speak, and you can walk in purity, walking in the Spirit.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Actually very few will ever know what abiding in Christ is.

Elijah said something like that, ". . . and I am the only one left". He was not correct.

Much love!

 

[marks]

those of us who call ourselves teachers will be held to account for if we are teaching the doctrine of rest as doctrine that encourages complacency rather than pressing on the high calling of God in Christ (Philippians 3:14). Faith that is not producing works is dead faith... The two go hand in hand, rather than being opposed to one another as you make them appear, and as you make the doctrine of rest out to be.

Faith in Christ produces works that you aren't working for. Once you cease your own works, once you stop working, and rest in Christ, that's when you can start having faith-works.

Romans 4:2-8 KJV
2) For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3) For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4) Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6) Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7) Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8) Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

This is the first thing we need to understand. To him that doesn't work - worketh not - it's his faith that is counted for righteousness.

I've seen many times in the past that you reject this truth, in saying that this means someone WON'T do works of faith, which is contrary to sound reason.

Having been justified by faith, we are freed from sin. Baptism into Christ's death and burial, sharing in His resurrection in our new life, this is our salvation, and now we become Jesus Christ's workmanship, and He ordained works for us to walk in, and He will chasten (train as you do a child) us so that we will walk in them.

Those who bear fruit are pruned, to bear more fruit. Those who bear thorns and thistles may find themselves rejected. The faithful bear fruit. But not the fleshy fruit of self-effort, that will not escape the flames of Jesus' judgement seat.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Where is your ZEAL? Is it fulfulling the Law? Proving yourself by your obedience? OR in loving others? Just giving yourself away?

And yes, you are either set towards one, or set towards the other, or you are double-minded and unstable.

Much love!

 

[David H.]

Faith in Christ produces works that you aren't working for. Once you cease your own works, once you stop working, and rest in Christ, that's when you can start having faith-works.

I've seen many times in the past that you reject this truth,

I Have done nothing but confirm this truth to you over and over again, We are saved by grace, sanctified by grace, and perfected by grace. It is when we stop relying on our own will and strength that we overcome. I have given you personal experiences with this with regard to my alcohol use and how the Holy Spirit did the work in me, and I am trying to show any here that there is a way to find this victory which comes with surrender, submission and repentance. I Am shocked that you have made this accusation against me because it is utterly false and against what I have been shown.

Now ask yourself, did Israel believe in Jehovah when he parted the red sea for them and did all the miracles to free them from slavery.... did they not obey the law given to them by Moses and follow his lead as he led them through the wilderness?.... yes they had their doubts and their yearning for the good things they had while in bondage as do all believers, but this is not what prevented them from going to the promised land (Entering His Rest), But Rather their failure to believe in God's providence made them scared of the giants they would have to overcome in the promised Land because they were looking at their own will and strength which paled compared to those same giants.... I see the same in the church today and particularly fundamentalist believers like yourself and @Behold who for fear of falling into legalism are afraid to overcome those Giants in your own lives. Your afraid of what the Holy Ghost has shown to those who are being taught by the Holy Ghost and label it as "unwholesome", or worse, heresy as some here label it, just because it does not agree with your understanding, or fit your tradition or doctrine. It reminds me much of what Paul and Peter wrote about milk and meat, those teachings make you at times gag.... I say this with all due respect as I know your heart and desire is in the right place from what you write.

Fearing those Giants is what will prevent you from entering into his Promises, this fear will prevent you from overcoming Giants in your life (The Motives of the heart: the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, the pride of Life) because you are justifying your fear of these things because you see marching into the Holy Land with the LORD ahead of you is akin to a work of legalism, which it is not, but rather a full reliance on the providence of God, an act of faith perfected by action on our part.

Please, carefully read this in Hebrews chapters 3-4, this is not contrary to the Gospel but a fulfilling of God's plan for the church. Then Ponder the words of Ephesians 2:7....

That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

What does it mean that "In the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace"?

 

[David H.]

His discipline is ALWAYS constructive.

His discipline is only constructive when we receive it as such. It can also be destructive in that it can be a punishment to lead us to repentance.

 

[ShineTheLight]

Just because somebody doesn't jump into one extreme doesn't mean they have adopted the other. An unbalanced person sees anyone who is not in their extreme as being in another extreme. So then balance cannot be discerned from an extreme.

That's why you need the fulness of Christ/God as the scripture/passages that state this.

The bible does talk about balance. Not just any kind of balance either. You don't want a false one, you want a just one.

 

[Behold]

the 2nd death, dead faith, half hearted believers.

God accepts our faith in Christ.
Give it to him once, and on that day, is your salvation day.

dead faith, is not dead salvation., as salvation is not what you do...its what God supplies, the instant you BELIEVE = born again.

half hearted believers.
You are describing the behavior after salvation, as behavior has nothing to do with Salvation, but it only has to do with discipleship, that is our behavior AFTER we are SAVED.

 

[David H.]

God accepts our faith in Christ.
Give it to him once, and on that day, is your salvation day.

dead faith, is not dead salvation., as salvation is not what you do...its what God supplies, the instant you BELIEVE = born again.

half hearted believers.
You are describing the behavior after salvation, as behavior has nothing to do with Salvation, but it only has to do with discipleship, that is our behavior AFTER we are SAVED.

I Never said anything about the second death in my comment not sure where you got that part of my quote from? Did you alter my comment?

Once again, you fail to interact with my whole comment, and fail to address all the points in there, and instead pick up two lines that i said and distort my view completely.

Our deliverance as believers does not stop at our salvation, and that is because you mistakenly say this is only for those who are called to discipleship. We are all called to discipleship, but the words scripture uses for this is sanctification (Progressive sanctification to use the theological term) By Preaching OSAS like you do in the above comment and then saying discipleship is only for the few called to do so, you are in essence preaching "dead faith". Do you see it now?

 

[marks]

His discipline is only constructive when we receive it as such. It can also be destructive in that it can be a punishment to lead us to repentance.

David, this is one of the most precious promises in the Bible,

Hebrews 12:5-13 KJV
5) And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6) For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7) If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8) But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9) Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10) For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11) Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
12) Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;
13) And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.

His chastening works. He will chasten us (train as you train a child) as needed. If He doesn't, it means we're not even His. He will chasten us, and His chastening IS effective, and will yield the peaceable fruit of righteousness.

God's promise to His children: He will chasten them, and His chastening will bring righteousness. To embrace this truth in a fully open heart is to receive the love from our Creator in His promise that He will see us through to the end.

Make staight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way, but let it rather be healed. We play a part, of course, and we can resist Him, however, that does not stop His promise. But we can in our own eyes go "from bad to worse" as that part of our life that is so difficult becomes worse still.

Our flesh is corrupted - lame - unable to walk in the Way. When we are reborn, our new spirit is born for that life, but is in this body of sin. We learn the Way, but if we do not walk in it, God may exercise us with His chastening. If He does, our admonition is that we do the part we can do, make straight paths, that is, make good choices, EVEN IF we are still lame - unable to walk in the Way.

As we choose to walk in God's Way, and God restores us - renews our minds - showing that we can walk in His way, as we do, trusting Him, even some of that fleshy corruption is restored as our brains re-wire themselves towards that new behavior and thought, righteous behavior and thought. Brain plasticity.

God promises that He will chasten us, and if He doesn't we're not even His. And His chastening works, bringing righteousness. He WILL see us through to the end!

Much love!

 

[marks]

I Have done nothing but confirm this truth to you over and over again,

If you agree with this,

Faith in Christ produces works that you aren't working for. Once you cease your own works, once you stop working, and rest in Christ, that's when you can start having faith-works.

That's good!

who for fear of falling into legalism

You clearly have no understanding of this concerning me.

It's like if I told you that you were green with blue stripes.

Your afraid of what the Holy Ghost has shown to those who are being taught by the Holy Ghost and label it as "unwholesome", or worse, heresy as some here label it, just because it does not agree with your understanding, or fit your tradition or doctrine.

Or if I told that you were purple.

I'm all about the Bible as our means to know God. We know Him in our spirit, however, if what we think we know is not Biblical, well, we need to stick to Biblical. Afraid of God? No, I'm not afraid of God. And that includes His servants. And even so, I will continue to compare your words, and other's words to God's Word.

Fearing those Giants is what will prevent you from entering into his Promises, this fear will prevent you from overcoming Giants in your life

In this also you demonstrate me both your willingness to impugn me in your presumption, and your lack of understanding of what I say, and who I am, and what God has done.

Here again . . . you've diverted from Scripture to the person. To share your erroneous negative opinions, or distractions, deflections, what ever is the truth here. People are known for all these, and something so off target is not spiritual.

Imagine Jesus coming up to a man and saying, "You have to repent of your wine addiction", to a man who doesn't drink! It simply wouldn't happen.

What does it mean that "In the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace"?

This is always a good verse to meditate on.

And to give this a good foundation, include,

Romans 4:4-5 KJV
4) Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

And then once you can get your mind off of yourself, and what "you" have to do, then you can start doing the faith works ordained by Jesus.

Do you not say you have to work yourself into your assurance of salvation? Isn't that how you describe our Christian walk? That's faith killer. Our assurance is in Christ alone, and He gives that assurance from Day 1. But many don't believe, and find fault with God. The fault is in ourselves if we refuse to believe.

Much love!

 

[marks]

those who are being taught by the Holy Ghost and label it as "unwholesome", or worse, heresy as some here label it, just because it does not agree with your understanding,

The bottom line here is, those who are taught by the Holy Spirit will not diverge from Scripture into strange teachings not found there. Those who do such things are not being taught that by the Holy Spirit.

Those who teach contrary to the word, to use your word, that is unwholesome. Let such be warned of God that only His Word shall stand.

Much love!

 

[marks]

If you don't understand the Bible, and you don't understand what others are saying, the best thing is to be quiet, and learn.

In quietness and trust is your strength.

If you cannot control your desires to tear down, and you cannot understand how to build up, the best thing is to allow God to build you up first.

Unity in faith and knowledge of Jesus Christ is the first thing if we want to build each other in love.

Talking past each other, taking comments out of context, posting presumptions and ignorant sayings, none of these edify in love, they are dishones and underhanded. And this is not how we are to speak.

Spiritual people having spiritual exchange.

Leave fleshy ways behind.

Much love!

 

[David H.]

unto them which are exercised thereby.

This is the key to receiving the discipline of God, otherwise it is punishment. constructive discipline vs destructive discipline.

I'm all about the Bible as our means to know God.

I Am all about the Holy Spirit as my teacher to Know God, the Spirit of Truth.. John 15:26, John 16:13 This is the difference between myself and most fundamentalists.

This is always a good verse to meditate on.

And to give this a good foundation, include,

This verse shows that there are things to be revealed to the church that are not contained in the Word of God. Do You believe this to be true? These things being revealed in the ages to come by the Spirit of Truth.

That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

In this also you demonstrate me both your willingness to impugn me in your presumption, and your lack of understanding of what I say, and who I am, and what God has done.

Here again . . . you've diverted from Scripture to the person. To share your erroneous negative opinions, or distractions, deflections, what ever is the truth here. People are know for all these, and something so off target is not spiritual.

Imagine Jesus coming up to a man and saying, "You have to repent of your wine addiction", to a man who doesn't drink! It simply wouldn't happen.

It is humorous to me how you read accusation into observation so that you ignore confronting the observations made about you. If I am wrong, show me how I am wrong, just like I showed you how you were wrong in your observation against me. I was shocked you made that remark after all the interaction we have had here on this site, you knowing full well what i believe.

My comment was to show you what i believe you and most fundamentalists are missing out on in your doctrine of Bible alone... You are missing out on the teaching of the Holy Spirit as promised to us in the word of God, and his revealing to us of the riches of his grace which are beyond the words contained in the Word of God. The groundwork for overcoming those Giants not being contained in the Word of God, but in the work of the Holy Spirit in your life. Do You understand what I am saying? There is a covert fear in fundamentalism of the Holy Spirit, and his working and teaching because of this elevation of the word of God as the only source of Knowledge of God.... do not get me wrong, I am not mocking the Word of God, but showing you that there is more that God has for us in these ages to come. I Hope and pray you see this. Otherwise you will be missing out on the riches of His grace.

 

[marks]

marks said: ↑
Faith in Christ produces works that you aren't working for. Once you cease your own works, once you stop working, and rest in Christ, that's when you can start having faith-works.

marks said: ↑
I've seen many times in the past that you reject this truth,

I Have done nothing but confirm this truth to you over and over again, We are saved by grace, sanctified by grace, and perfected by grace. It is when we stop relying on our own will and strength that we overcome.

To clarify, you've posted this as if I'm saying you reject that we are saved by grace, and we overcome when we stop relying on our own will, however, my full statement was,

I've seen many times in the past that you reject this truth, in saying that this means someone WON'T do works of faith, which is contrary to sound reason.

I agree with you, we should be careful to not misrepresent others by the way we quote them.

Much love!

 

[David H.]

The bottom line here is, those who are taught by the Holy Spirit will not diverge from Scripture into strange teachings not found there. Those who do such things are not being taught that by the Holy Spirit.

Those who teach contrary to the word, to use your word, that is unwholesome. Let such be warned of God that only His Word shall stand.

I disagree, God is revealing to His children things beyond what is contained in the word of God, for which we are only left with faith to believe them or not. The way is outlined to test the Spirits in scripture, yet none do that anymore instead they just condemn the teaching because it does not agree with their interpretation or understanding. In Other words it is a hubris of their own mind and understanding that is interfering with them receiving the riches of His grace.

 

[David H.]

But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. (1 Corinthians 2:10-11)

 

[marks]

This is the key to receiving the discipline of God, otherwise it is punishment. constructive discipline vs destructive discipline.

If you go back to the passage in Hebrews 12, there is only chastening, not punishment. God trains His children, and His training is effective. If this is not true for you, you are not His child.

I Am all about the Holy Spirit as my teacher to Know God, the Spirit of Truth.. John 15:26, John 16:13 This is the difference between myself and most fundamentalists.

I'm all about the Bible as our means to know God. We know Him in our spirit, however, if what we think we know is not Biblical, well, we need to stick to Biblical.

If you disregard the Bible, you open yourself to error. We know we are in Him, and He in us, by His Spirit within us, Who teaches us all things. And we know nothing that He teaches us will ever contradict the Bible. Those who are willing to embrace views which are contrary to Scripture are wrong to do so, and will fall into error, no matter where they think those ideas are coming from. We are not to ignore Scripture.

This verse shows that there are things to be revealed to the church that are not contained in the Word of God. Do You believe this to be true? These things being revealed in the ages to come by the Spirit of Truth.

His servants shall serve Him . . . doing what exactly? Yes, there is much we don't yet know. But neither do we add to Scripture now.

I knew a man who was convinced that he was to finish writing the Bible, that what he wrote would be the document that would provide the teaching to transition the Church from a fleshy state now ushering it into a glorious state in the millennium. No one is adding to Scripture, no one.

into observation

Your erroneous and presumptive opinions. Not edifying. You turn to talk about me as a means to avoid the doctrinal discussion. It's common, but not useful.

I need to stop addressing your personal comments, that doesn't help either.

Much love!

 

[marks]

So in the way of not addressing personal distractions,

[QUOTE="David H., post: 1335991, member: 9104"It is humorous to me how you read accusation into observation so that you ignore confronting the observations made about you. If I am wrong, show me how I am wrong, just like I showed you how you were wrong in your observation against me. I was shocked you made that remark after all the interaction we have had here on this site, you knowing full well what i believe.

My comment was to show you what i believe you and most fundamentalists are missing out on in your doctrine of Bible alone... You are missing out on the teaching of the Holy Spirit as promised to us in the word of God, and his revealing to us of the riches of his grace which are beyond the words contained in the Word of God. The groundwork for overcoming those Giants not being contained in the Word of God, but in the work of the Holy Spirit in your life. Do You understand what I am saying? There is a covert fear in fundamentalism of the Holy Spirit, and his working and teaching because of this elevation of the word of God as the only source of Knowledge of God.... do not get me wrong, I am not mocking the Word of God, but showing you that there is more that God has for us in these ages to come. I Hope and pray you see this. Otherwise you will be missing out on the riches of His grace./QUOTE]

The Holy Spirit teaches us the meaning of the Word of God, and trains us in faith to believe it, and in faith, we overcome.

What is the "covert fear" you are thinking of? We can freely receive from the Holy Spirit of God, knowing, by faith, according to His Word, His love for us.

If someone fears God's work, it is because he has not known the love of God. Becoming mature in love removes our fears.

If we promote our own experience over the teaching of the word, we risk that our experiences may lead us another direction, and we'll not realize we've drifted into error. However, as we realize that God's Spirit will ALWAYS work in unity with the Scriptures, we have both the Spirit and the Word. The Spirit will show us truth from the Word, and that truth will certify the right path.

Isaiah 55:10-11 KJV
10) For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
11) So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

God Himself elevates His Word.

Creation teaches us about God also, but just the same, we shouldn't take every thought that comes into our minds about God as we look at creation as "gospel truth" without having His Word confirm for us. People make mistakes. It's just how it is. And we are growing in the Lord, and may not understand things fully. So we should not disdain the safety net of the Scriptures.

2 Timothy 3:14-17 KJV
14) But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15) And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17) That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Much love!