There Are No Church Ages

[veteran]

In Revelation 2 & 3, our Lord Jesus gave 7 Messages to 7 Churches in Asia (Asia Minor).

False doctrines of men have tried to apply the concept of 'ages' for each one of those 7 Churches, like some progressive evolution theory applied to Christ's Church since the time of the first Christians to today's time, with the supposed last 'Church age' being represented by Christ's Message to the Church of the Laodicieans in Rev.3.

In the last verse of Revelation 1, our Lord Jesus said the seven candlesticks that John saw by vision ARE the seven Churches.

Those 7 Churches all existed at the same time in John's days, as John specifically addresses his salutation to them in Rev.1:4.


Man trying to treat those 7 Churches as separate historical 'church ages' is a gross false doctrine. That false doctrine is designed to trick you into wrongly thinking that most, or all except one of those 7 Messages applies for today. It's a TRICK to get you to not listen to ALL of our Lord's 7 Messages to the 7 Churches. Christ still has the 7 candlesticks in Heaven as a PATTERN for ALL 7 of those Church Types on earth. They do not represent 'church ages', but CHURCH TYPES!!!

And those 7 Messages APPLY TO ALL... CHURCHES ON EARTH TODAY! How's that?

No matter what Church you go into today on earth, ONE of those 7 Messages Christ gave will apply to it.

Christ gave those Messages to historical Churches in Asia Minor, but since their representative 'candlesticks' are in Heaven with Him, they still... today... represent 7 types.


So WHAT KIND of Church are you in today? Do one or more of those 7 Messages Christ gave fit your Church?

This shows Christ gave those Messages as a pattern for REPENTANCE upon ALL Christian Churches today. And TWO out of those 7 He had absolutely NO rebuke for. So those TWO are your pattern guide for choosing the RIGHT CHURCH to be in today!

 

[rockytopva]

But the church's came about in ages... Laodicea was more than likely born with Dwight L Moody... Who annoyed the English by making money off of book and hymnal sales.

The Philadelphian age preacher, John Wesley, stated all that a man needs when he dies is enough money to bury him... And a few pence for his friends. This is in stark contrast to the Laodicean preacher who would come to hoarding. Read history and compare it to the prophecies.

 

[veteran]

But the church's came about in ages... Laodicea was more than likely born with Dwight L Moody... Who annoyed the English by making money off of book and hymnal sales.

The Philadelphian age preacher, John Wesley, stated all that a man needs when he dies is enough money to bury him... And a few pence for his friends. This is in stark contrast to the Laodicean preacher who would come to hoarding. Read history and compare it to the prophecies.

All that doctrine of 'church ages' is a hoax to get Christ's servants away... from understanding HOW His 7 Messages still apply upon ALL Churches today.

The Scripture NEVER shows ANY of those 7 Churches in Asia as separate from each other's time of existence. They ALL existed in the same time, and even formed a geographic circle connection between them. (A circle represents completeness).


The Laodicean Church TYPE existed in Apostle John's day!!! That ought to tell you something. In other words, we cannot assume some 'church age' idea based on the materialism of some Churches today, when that VERY EXAMPLE was FIRST in John's days!

That one, and ALL the other 6 represent TYPES that STILL exist today!

FIVE out of those 7 Churches in Asia Minor had problems which Christ commanded them to repent for.


Attend a Church today; then STUDY all 7 of those TYPES by Christ's Messages to them, and you find ONE or MORE of those 7 Messages will fit the type of Church you're in.

In essence, what our Lord Jesus was really teaching us, was HOW to recognize a good TYPE of Church, and if in a Church like those 5 who had specific problems, how to remain in Him while being there.

Then the TWO Churches He gave no rebuke to, those represent what? Those who were staying in Him and His Word, and thus He had opened a door unto them, a door that no man can open or shut except Christ Jesus Himself (remember He said, knock and it shall be opened to you?). The two Churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia represent Churches that have... His Truth and keep it, AND... they knew the seat of Christ's enemies.

One of the major problems with the 5 problem Churches, and still today, is THEY did not know how to recognize His enemies. That was a lot of the reason why... they were having problems, the Jezebel seductress being one of the worst cases of their deception.

 

[Prentis]

Hmmm... I'm not looking to take a position on this or fight over it, but I'll throw in my two pennies. :)

I do think that the 7 churches are all in a sense present, as in there are people who the Lord sees as fitting one description, others another. So that would be in agreement with veteran.

But I do think that a certain church is predominant now, Laodicea. I won;t say we necessarily followed the order given in Revelations or anything, I'm not all knowing and not an expert either ;)

I just think we need to take it easy on taking a rock hard stance and saying 'This and this ONLY is what it means'. :)

The mainstream North American and European church I would say is Laodicean.

 

[veteran]

Hmmm... I'm not looking to take a position on this or fight over it, but I'll throw in my two pennies. :)

I do think that the 7 churches are all in a sense present, as in there are people who the Lord sees as fitting one description, others another. So that would be in agreement with veteran.

But I do think that a certain church is predominant now, Laodicea. I won;t say we necessarily followed the order given in Revelations or anything, I'm not all knowing and not an expert either ;)

I just think we need to take it easy on taking a rock hard stance and saying 'This and this ONLY is what it means'. :)

The mainstream North American and European church I would say is Laodicean.

God's Word is not like some throw of the dice with a different interpretation that pops up with every throw. There are levels, and they will always agree with each other.

The interpretation in question of the 7 Messages Christ gave goes DIRECTLY AGAINST the way He presented them to John, and the way John gave those 7 Messages to the Churches in Asia.

To concentrate on any one... of those 7 more and infer the other Messages no longer apply is to go directly against the Scripture also. So there IS... a limit to how far one can use 'speculation' over and beyond Scripture. If that were not so, no one would be able to know what God's Word teaches. It would make God's Word no different than philosophy of man, which is exactly how some people try to treat God's Word, profaning It and bringing condemnation upon themselves.

 

[Prentis]

I agree all the warnings apply. All I'm saying is that I do think there are times where one is more strongly represented than others. It also depends where. North America, I would say, is MAJORITARILY Laodicean.

God bless you :)

 

[veteran]

I agree all the warnings apply. All I'm saying is that I do think there are times where one is more strongly represented than others. It also depends where. North America, I would say, is MAJORITARILY Laodicean.

God bless you :)

Have you ever traveled overseas? lived overseas?

 

[Prentis]

Yes, I lived in Switzerland for 7 years. Have visited since.

What's your point?

 

[revturmoil]

God's Word is not like some throw of the dice with a different interpretation that pops up with every throw

So what are the two fuzzy dice doing hanging on the mirror of your Mad Max mobile.

 

[veteran]

So what are the two fuzzy dice doing hanging on the mirror of your Mad Max mobile.

I kinda like those fuzzy dice. My dog does too.

Yes, I lived in Switzerland for 7 years. Have visited since.

What's your point?

And how did they feel about Americans?

 

[Prentis]

Does it matter how the world feels about Americans? Or one nation?

People always love those who love them, but what credit do we get for that?

 

[veteran]

Does it matter how the world feels about Americans? Or one nation?

People always love those who love them, but what credit do we get for that?

That might be a good thing to remember when the urge comes up to categorize a whole nation or people.

I spent several temporary duties in Germany, and was around many French, Dutch, and German tourists in southern Spain. I found on the whole, the older people in those groups were more friendly towards Americans than the young ones. Many of the young there were very spiteful against the Church and government in general. It felt almost like a repeat view of the 1960's American 'hippie' generation with brainwashed revolutionary minds. A couple of fellows in my unit had German mothers and American fathers, and even as U.S. military, they still admired how Hitler got post-WWI Germany back on its feet. No doubt that idealism came from their mother's side.

My point? Young minds are fashionable, and can be changed with the weather if they don't have Christ as the proper foundation to begin with.

 

[Prentis]

Old men's minds will not follow change, if they are not in Christ, and young men's minds will seek false revolution if they are not in Christ, both fail.

We can be set in our ways, or looking to change things to how we like it, which is an illusion of change. It's like shuffling a deck of cards; same cards, different order.

Both these men are in essence the same. Those whose minds are not spiritual and set in their ways have brought the false revolution of their generation to pass, and have set in their ways, while the young are seeking to bring the next.

Both live in an illusion created by the enemy that they can actually bring change by physical means, when our problem is a spiritual one. A deception that is rampant among today's Christianity!

 

[veteran]

Old men's minds will not follow change, if they are not in Christ, and young men's minds will seek false revolution if they are not in Christ, both fail.

We can be set in our ways, or looking to change things to how we like it, which is an illusion of change. It's like shuffling a deck of cards; same cards, different order.

Both these men are in essence the same. Those whose minds are not spiritual and set in their ways have brought the false revolution of their generation to pass, and have set in their ways, while the young are seeking to bring the next.

Both live in an illusion created by the enemy that they can actually bring change by physical means, when our problem is a spiritual one. A deception that is rampant among today's Christianity!

One who stands in Christ had best be set in their ways, or they're not on His Foundation, but on someone else's.

The motto of 'change' is the Obama thing, and boy he and his Socialist buddies are making changes all right, changes that are destroying America. He is a change agent.

 

[Prentis]

We must seek to constantly grow in the Spirit until we have attained Christ. We must be set in his ways, not ours.

 

[lawrance]

That might be a good thing to remember when the urge comes up to categorize a whole nation or people.

I spent several temporary duties in Germany, and was around many French, Dutch, and German tourists in southern Spain. I found on the whole, the older people in those groups were more friendly towards Americans than the young ones. Many of the young there were very spiteful against the Church and government in general. It felt almost like a repeat view of the 1960's American 'hippie' generation with brainwashed revolutionary minds. A couple of fellows in my unit had German mothers and American fathers, and even as U.S. military, they still admired how Hitler got post-WWI Germany back on its feet. No doubt that idealism came from their mother's side.

My point? Young minds are fashionable, and can be changed with the weather if they don't have Christ as the proper foundation to begin with.

Looking back at that hippie generation stuff and the way a lot of our younger generation has been brain washed and also the way Hitler etc did things in how their educating the young and naive is interesting. and i will have to hand it to them, boy do they sure know how to lead people down the garden path. it's all madness. and veteran is so right about that if we don't have Christ as the proper foundation as these people will just lead all astray.

 

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In Revelation 2 & 3, our Lord Jesus gave 7 Messages to 7 Churches in Asia (Asia Minor).

False doctrines of men have tried to apply the concept of 'ages' for each one of those 7 Churches, like some progressive evolution theory applied to Christ's Church since the time of the first Christians to today's time, with the supposed last 'Church age' being represented by Christ's Message to the Church of the Laodicieans in Rev.3.

In the last verse of Revelation 1, our Lord Jesus said the seven candlesticks that John saw by vision ARE the seven Churches.

Those 7 Churches all existed at the same time in John's days, as John specifically addresses his salutation to them in Rev.1:4.


Man trying to treat those 7 Churches as separate historical 'church ages' is a gross false doctrine. That false doctrine is designed to trick you into wrongly thinking that most, or all except one of those 7 Messages applies for today. It's a TRICK to get you to not listen to ALL of our Lord's 7 Messages to the 7 Churches. Christ still has the 7 candlesticks in Heaven as a PATTERN for ALL 7 of those Church Types on earth. They do not represent 'church ages', but CHURCH TYPES!!!

And those 7 Messages APPLY TO ALL... CHURCHES ON EARTH TODAY! How's that?

No matter what Church you go into today on earth, ONE of those 7 Messages Christ gave will apply to it.

Christ gave those Messages to historical Churches in Asia Minor, but since their representative 'candlesticks' are in Heaven with Him, they still... today... represent 7 types.


So WHAT KIND of Church are you in today? Do one or more of those 7 Messages Christ gave fit your Church?

This shows Christ gave those Messages as a pattern for REPENTANCE upon ALL Christian Churches today. And TWO out of those 7 He had absolutely NO rebuke for. So those TWO are your pattern guide for choosing the RIGHT CHURCH to be in today!

I agree with your statement.
The term 'ages' that you use here can be interpreted many ways; to a specific ideology, to a specific religious organization, and as a teaching aid for understanding Biblical terminology.

I submit that the original intent of the use of the word 'ages' may have been to provide an innocent term wherein a sermon or idea could be transmitted. A sermon which would be based upon something other than 'ages'.

For example, for centuries our calendar has been divided into two sections; BC and AD. Most folks don't base a whole ideology upon the division. In the case of 'ages' some do.

It can obfuscate the use of the term to the detriment of many who truly seek understanding.

 

[rockytopva]

I think the seven churches have their boundaries in time and in geography. Who knows if the church as Smyrna is still alive in places like Iran?

1. Ephesus - Apostolic church - I think that this church was the first century church.
2. Smyrna - Martyrs church - 10 days = 10 persecutions... Its there is the Foxes book of Martyrs.
3. Pergomos - Orthodox - Really took hold in Greece and Russia. Pergos means towers in the Greek.
4. Thyatira - Catholic - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and dominate - Read the history of the dark ages.
5. Sardis - Protestant - Had a name that they lived but were dead. - Sardis - A gem - Pretty and hard!
6. Philadelphia - Revived - Humble beginnings with John Bunyan.
7. Laodicea - Materialistic - Began with Democracy itself.

As far a specific geography and time frame... Only Jesus knows! It's his mystery!

 

[veteran]

I agree with your statement.
The term 'ages' that you use here can be interpreted many ways; to a specific ideology, to a specific religious organization, and as a teaching aid for understanding Biblical terminology.

I submit that the original intent of the use of the word 'ages' may have been to provide an innocent term wherein a sermon or idea could be transmitted. A sermon which would be based upon something other than 'ages'.

For example, for centuries our calendar has been divided into two sections; BC and AD. Most folks don't base a whole ideology upon the division. In the case of 'ages' some do.

It can obfuscate the use of the term to the detriment of many who truly seek understanding.

But the concept of 'ages' is what men's doctrines TRY to apply to those seven Messages Christ gave to the seven Churches in Asia Minor. The word 'ages' is NOT written anywhere in those seven Messages.

Men's false doctrine of treating those seven as 'church ages' gets totally away from Christ's purpose for giving those seven Messages. They are Messages involving the seven candlesticks, which are where per Rev.1? In the Heavenly, as also the seven angels (stars) that are over them.

Why would Satan want to corrupt Christ's purpose in giving those seven Messages as still being in effect upon today's Churches? It's because of the particular sins in them which Christ rebuked five of them for, and also to lead one astray as to the duty the candlesticks represent for the end times.

 

[us2are1]

If you learn from Christ by what His eye witnesses wrote that He taught you will fit the good ticket and have nothing to loose at His coming.

if you buy into these modern idiocies dreamed up by gospels for sale you will fall hard and maybe even not be saveable.

The seven churches are seven types that will be here when the great tribulation starts.

Keep this in mind. When Saint John was given the revelation on the Island of Patmos all of the other apostles had already been martyred for Christ. They never saw it. The Jews had already been wiped out and slaughtered by the Romans. The churches in their various places were being destroyed by the Romans and fed to the Lions in the Roman arenas.