is doing sexual things with a boyfriend/girlfriend sin...

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Immorality is, as you say, very prevalent in today's world - hence the number of women claiming abortion rights. But also in today's world - a world which does not follow Jewish tradition - being committed to a life-long partner does not need the services of a priest. As I said, that sort of wedding was ordained by the Catholic church for it's own ends - namely to keep control over people in order to take money from them.

I'm not saying you need a priest. I know plenty people who go to someone in the court who has the authority to marry a couple. To make it legal with the community or government. God has always told true Christians that when it comes to government authorities when it comes to their laws if not against the laws of God to be subjective to their laws. So true Christians if their are laws which the government has which they are living in concerning the legal recognized married couple in that government true Christians will obey those laws.
The first human wedding was performed by YHWH God.(Genesis2:22-24)
Verse 24 YHWH God stated not Adam. See how God says that the woman named Eve was said to be Adams wife. Also the wording of the text of Genesis 2:24 makes it evident that monogamy was the original standard for marriage in the eyes of the true God YHWH.

 

[Grailhunter]

The first human wedding was performed by YHWH God.

Could you represent something Truthfully for a change.
What Yahweh described in that verse is exactly what happened in the Old and New testament....no wedding ceremony.
24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.
No ceremony! Can you read at all?!

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

I do not ignore scriptures, and unlike you, I know the scriptures. Jacob practiced witchcraft, practiced polygamy and concubinage. People do a tap dance to try to defend him but his whole life exhibited poor character. His life does not set an example for Christians to follow in their intimate relationships.

I'm not going to ignore scripture. The way you reason on the scriptures, you ignore too much. Genesis chapter 24 contains a very detailed description of the selection of a wife for Isaac, the heir to the Abrahamic promise. It illustrates how Jehovah should be properly considered by those who hope to inherit salvation, in the selection of a mate. Note the first point that your reading of Genesis 24 establishes: The woman must be godly and of God-fearing origin. A Canaanite or pagan woman would not qualify. Next, Abraham, the bridegroom’s father, properly observed God’s direction for himself and his family to leave his country and kindred and father’s house. (Genesis 12:1) Therefore, Isaac the seed must not be brought back there. The point is that no infraction of what was clearly the direction of Jehovah was to be tolerated. Abraham’s servant who was sent to get the bride likewise considered and looked for the Lord God to direct and bless each step of his mission. The woman must qualify according to YHWH God standards and she must willingly accept the arrangement. When the Lord’s blessing upon the selection of the bride was observed, a proper giving of presents, rings and other jewelry to the young woman and her guardians was made by the servant representing Abraham and Isaac, establishing the contract between all concerned. This is the Bride-Price. Finally, the Lord’s direction was accepted by Isaac without question and the marriage was consummated when the servant delivered Rebecca to him.

In our day the Lord God does not individually select mates for his people; but he does clearly reveal in his Word, the Bible, the proper procedure for his people to take in making this selection. If each one will display the same diligence displayed by Abraham and his servant in ascertaining the mind of the Lord in their selection of a mate, it is bound to have His blessing and to be much more successful than it otherwise would be. Wealth, social distinction and physical beauty, which the world considers all important, are not the really important factors in a successful marriage. Godly compatibility is the thing to be striven for.

Today, “God’s wrath is being revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who are suppressing the truth in an unrighteous way. Because, although they knew God, they did not glorify him as God nor did they thank him, but they became empty-headed in their reasonings and their unintelligent heart became darkened.” (Romans 1:18, 21) Thus, as far as Jehovah’s requirements are concerned, the Bible describes the darkness of the world relating to marriage as well as practically every other subject.

The apostle Peter wrote to his fellow Christians: “On the other hand, you are ‘a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that you should declare abroad the excellencies’ of the one that called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.” (1 Peter 2:9) The Christian is therefore required to show forth the excellencies of YHWH God in all things, which includes conforming to the divine pattern for marriage in all of its details. This he does for the approval of God and his own peace of mind. Also, it is for the purpose of setting a proper example and guide for the blinded world, particularly persons of good will in the world who wish to know and serve God. (1 Timothy 4:16)

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Could you represent something Truthfully for a change.
What Yahweh described in that verse is exactly what happened in the Old and New testament....no wedding ceremony.
24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.
No ceremony! Can you read at all?!

God Instituted marriage, he made them husband and wife. It was God who said Genesis 2:24.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Grailhunter said,
I have never said that casual sex is not a sin, so again you twist what I say and twist the truth. What is the character of person that twist what people say and twist the truth?[/QUOTE]

I have continued to say that casual sex is sexual immorality which is included in the definition of porneia. It is you who has been denying that very clearly. I'm going to continue to say it's sexual immorality because it is. By the way you are reasoning on the scriptures you are saying sexual immorality is ok in the eyes of the true God, because of the way you reason on the word porneia. You don't agree with me that's your choice I'm not going to water down the truth because you don't like what's being said.

 

[Grailhunter]

I'm not going to ignore scripture. The way you reason on the scriptures, you ignore too much. Genesis chapter 24 contains a very detailed description of the selection of a wife for Isaac, the heir to the Abrahamic promise. It illustrates how Jehovah should be properly considered by those who hope to inherit salvation, in the selection of a mate. Note the first point that your reading of Genesis 24 establishes: The woman must be godly and of God-fearing origin. A Canaanite or pagan woman would not qualify. Next, Abraham, the bridegroom’s father, properly observed God’s direction for himself and his family to leave his country and kindred and father’s house. (Genesis 12:1) Therefore, Isaac the seed must not be brought back there. The point is that no infraction of what was clearly the direction of Jehovah was to be tolerated. Abraham’s servant who was sent to get the bride likewise considered and looked for the Lord God to direct and bless each step of his mission. The woman must qualify according to YHWH God standards and she must willingly accept the arrangement. When the Lord’s blessing upon the selection of the bride was observed, a proper giving of presents, rings and other jewelry to the young woman and her guardians was made by the servant representing Abraham and Isaac, establishing the contract between all concerned. This is the Bride-Price. Finally, the Lord’s direction was accepted by Isaac without question and the marriage was consummated when the servant delivered Rebecca to him.

In our day the Lord God does not individually select mates for his people; but he does clearly reveal in his Word, the Bible, the proper procedure for his people to take in making this selection. If each one will display the same diligence displayed by Abraham and his servant in ascertaining the mind of the Lord in their selection of a mate, it is bound to have His blessing and to be much more successful than it otherwise would be. Wealth, social distinction and physical beauty, which the world considers all important, are not the really important factors in a successful marriage. Godly compatibility is the thing to be striven for.

First off we are not Jewish.
But then overall I will agree not to be unevenly yoked. I would not recommend a Christian to peruse a relationship with a lady that is not Christian. It does not make any sense.

God Instituted marriage, he made them husband and wife. It was God who said Genesis 2:24.

No. He is talking about men a women coupling to form a marriage. And this is what we see throughout the Old Testament. What you are trying to suggest is false. Do the scriptures suggest that King David had a wedding ceremony with Bathsheba? For that matter do the scriptures suggest that Jacob had a wedding ceremony with his wives or concubines. No, this is how it was done in the Old Testament and the New Testament.....

But when evening came, he took his daughter Leah and brought her to Jacob, and Jacob made love to her....Genesis 29:23

You can try to deny the truth....you can try to twist the truth....but the Bible will tell the truth.

But when evening came, he took his daughter Leah and brought her to Jacob, and Jacob made love to her.

 

[Grailhunter]

By the way you are reasoning on the scriptures you are saying sexual immorality is ok in the eyes of the true God, because of the way you reason on the word porneia.

I again those that lie and try to twist what people say will be known as liars.
And the Greek is known for its details. The word porneia and it variances are known for what they mean. You can try to twist them but people will know that you are being dishonest. Talking about things you have no idea about or just down right being dishonest.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

First off we are not Jewish.
But then overall I will agree not to be unevenly yoked. I would not recommend a Christian to peruse a relationship with a lady that is not Christian. It does not make any sense.



No. He is talking about men a women coupling to form a marriage. And this is what we see throughout the Old Testament. What you are trying to suggest is false. Do the scriptures suggest that King David had a wedding ceremony with Bathsheba? For that matter do the scriptures suggest that Jacob had a wedding ceremony with his wives or concubines. No, this is how it was done in the Old Testament and the New Testament.....

But when evening came, he took his daughter Leah and brought her to Jacob, and Jacob made love to her....Genesis 29:23

You can try to deny the truth....you can try to twist the truth....but the Bible will tell the truth.

But when evening came, he took his daughter Leah and brought her to Jacob, and Jacob made love to her.

It is you who are denying the scriptures but obviously who you have chosen to be.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

I again those that lie and try to twist what people say will be known as liars.
And the Greek is known for its details. The word porneia and it variances are known for what they mean. You can try to twist them but people will know that you are being dishonest. Talking about things you have no idea about or just down right being dishonest.

I understand that a person telling you the truth you call a liar

 

[Grailhunter]

It is you who are denying the scriptures but obviously who you have chosen to be.

I am not denying anything. You are not presenting anything that matters. What you are trying to prove is not in the Bible and it is not in history. It is a fantasy world between your ears.

 

[Pearl]

What I know, even though you will say it's not true is that you promote sexual immorality by refusing to acknowledge the true definition of porneia. Two single people today think its ok to have sex with one another and believe they are not breaking any of Gods commands. They don't think it's sexual immorality. They get such lies from people who say they know Gods word but then teach people who are two single people (man &woman) who have sex with one another haven't sinned against God.

If the two people aren't Christians then they haven't sinned against God. Whatever they do or don't do they are sinners until saved by God's grace through the blood of the Lamb.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

If the two people aren't Christians then they haven't sinned against God. Whatever they do or don't do they are sinners until saved by God's grace through the blood of the Lamb.

The fact you say, if the two people aren't Christians they haven't sinned against God is proof you know not what you're talking about concerning the scriptures. It doesn't matter who you are, a true servant of the True God or not, a true Christian or not, you are sinning against God if practicing any sin. So yes even if the two people are not Christians they are sinning against God. And just because a person has accepted Jesus Christ in his/her life doesn't mean that they can't sin against God. We all can make mistakes. The apostle Paul told the Corinthian congregation to disassociate themselves from a Christian man who was practicing adultery.

 

[JohnPaul]

The fact you say, if the two people aren't Christians they haven't sinned against God is proof you know not what you're talking about concerning the scriptures. It doesn't matter who you are, a true servant of the True God or not, a true Christian or not, you are sinning against God if practicing any sin. So yes even if the two people are not Christians they are sinning against God. And just because a person has accepted Jesus Christ in his/her life doesn't mean that they can't sin against God. We all can make mistakes. The apostle Paul told the Corinthian congregation to disassociate themselves from a Christian man who was practicing adultery.

Agreed.

 

[Grailhunter]

This thread is important because there are Christians that need guidance with how to address their romantic relationships. That information and advice, needs to be accurately biblical....common sense....and consider the risks of the sexual diseases that are running around.

I was fortunate----blessed--- to have intelligent parents. And it helped that my mom was Catholic and my dad was Southern Baptist...so in my house religious discussions were frequent. I was a gifted child and could read the Bible when I was in the first grade. So I was sort of a notoriety. I entered Christian Brother College at 14.

Both my mom and dad considered it important to talk to me about being adult because they could tell that I was maturing very fast.
I was considered by my family to be "old soul" I heard it several times. They saw divorce as a failure that could be prevented by selecting the right spouse and understanding how to address those relationships. They both were smart enough to know that love and respect was the primary ingredient in a successful marriage....and that the wedding or the marriage license had little to do with a successful marriage....and that it all started with the dating process.

Which starts with respect and politeness, the focus not on the sexual. And the choices of females were Christians, usually met at the church were we knew of each other for time before we started talking and decided to date. For me dinner dating and car petting was not my way. I would seek out public activities....Church and church functions and I would take my romantic interests to attractions like Silver Dollar City, we have a lot of caves in Missouri so we would tour those, St. Louis Zoo is huge and join with other Christian couples on boating activates and picnics and hikes. That way we got to know each other and how we are with others. One of the ladies I knew, we worked with the church to put a new roof on the house for an elderly couple.

We went to the movies and alone time was usually cooking and cuddling on the couch and watching TV and eating popcorn. There were times we slept together....on the couch....with our clothes on. You would be surprised how that brings you closer together. It is important to know the person. It is important to limit your relations to Christians. For one thing they understand why your focus is not to have sex first. True that anticipation create it own "heat"

The thing is, if you do this right, it allows for time to see each other "in action" to know the other person's interests and goals in life.
If you do this right you know the other person's religious interest and devotions. I have seen this where one spouse tries to drag the other to church. These are things that you need to know before the relationship gets to serous. Going to church and participating in church activities has a very bonding effect. And praying together has a bonding effect. That is a biggie!

When things get "heated up" it is best for that to be a mutual decision. For me it about making it a special event for the lady, majorly romantic...but that includes waiting until you have a wedding ceremony if that is what is mutually agreed. Which is fine. But there is no guilt or sin for two people that love each other joining. I am a hopeless romantic so it all about the lady. It is a planned event and a beautiful memory.

And I say all this because relationships are too important to be consummated by accident. Life is likely to throw you some curve balls, so you need to have a solid relationship. And as it is, the world has host of STD's running around and it important to know the person. And that takes time.

 

[Pearl]

The fact you say, if the two people aren't Christians they haven't sinned against God is proof you know not what you're talking about concerning the scriptures. It doesn't matter who you are, a true servant of the True God or not, a true Christian or not, you are sinning against God if practicing any sin. So yes even if the two people are not Christians they are sinning against God. And just because a person has accepted Jesus Christ in his/her life doesn't mean that they can't sin against God. We all can make mistakes. The apostle Paul told the Corinthian congregation to disassociate themselves from a Christian man who was practicing adultery.

We are all sinners until we are redeemed. So please don't be rude. Especially as you seem to be more knowledgeable than me.
Romans 12:3 Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought,

 

[Pearl]

@Pearl Do you think Christian moms should advise their daughters to tell their serious and steady bfs to have condoms ready?

I also think Christians dads should teach their sons to respect women and advise them to have condoms ready.

 

[Dropship]

..is doing sexual things with a boyfriend/girlfriend sin or fornication?

Nah..-
Jesus said "At the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,'and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh' So they are no longer two, but one" (Matthew 19:4)
However you might want to get a marriage certificate to make it legit..

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

We are all sinners until we are redeemed. So please don't be rude. Especially as you seem to be more knowledgeable than me.
Romans 12:3 Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought,

I'm not being rude I'm being truthful and when it comes to the truth in the scriptures you can't water down that truth. If you say and believe the scriptures say that if two people who are both single and have sex but are not Christians, are not sinning against God when they have sex, you're wrong and you're not going by the scriptures
As I said, just because a person accepts Jesus Christ in their lives, doesn't mean a person can't sin against God. The scriptures show us that a brother was practicing adultery in the Corinthian congregation and Paul told the Congregation to stop associating with him.

 

[Pearl]

he fact you say, if the two people aren't Christians they haven't sinned against God is proof you know not what you're talking about concerning the scriptures.

That was the rude bit - right there.

 

[Lambano]

@Pearl Do you think Christian moms should advise their daughters to tell their serious and steady bfs to have condoms ready?

I also think Christians dads should teach their sons to respect women and advise them to have condoms ready.

Pearl, Farouk: I think a young lady in that situation should herself have condoms ready. I know a young lady who regrets not having taken steps to protect herself.

And Christian dads should teach their sons about respecting woman AND about self-control. Condoms do sometimes tear (my stepson shared way Too Much Information with us), and that charming little incident cost him 20+ years in a bad marriage. But looking at the bright side, I got two terrific grandchildren out of the deal.