The Jehovah’s Witnesses Teach Jesus is Mighty God

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Status
Not open for further replies.

ByGraceThroughFaith

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2021
2,870
852
113
Dudley
trinitystudies.org
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
The Jehovah’s Witnesses Teach Jesus is Mighty God

In John chapter 1, verse 1, the JW’s have translated the Greek, “kai theos ēn ho logos”, as “and the Word was a god”. They also dedicate a section in their Kingdom Interlinear translation of the New Testament, trying to justify this reading, from false quotations of Greek scholars, who actually say, that this should read, “and the Word was God”.

The JW’s argue that Jesus Christ is “a god”, and Jehovah alone is “God”. This is completely contradicted by their own translation, in their New World translation, for Isaiah 9:6, which is a Prophecy on the Lord Jesus Christ.

“For a child has been born to usc, A son has been given to us; And the rulership* will rest on his shoulderd. His name will be called Wonderful Counselore, Mighty Godf, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace” (NWT 2013 edition)

There is no doubt as to Who is Child is, as we can see from the references used in the NWT. We have the letter “c”, which refer to Luke 1:15 and 2:11, both on the Birth of Jesus Christ. Then we have “*”, which has in a note, Or “government; princely rule.”. Next, “e”, with references to Isaiah 11:2; Matthew 7:28, 29; 12:42, which are for the First Coming and Ministry of the Lord Jesus Christ. The letter “f”, has references to Psalm 45:3, which is on the use of the Hebrew, “gib·bō·wr” (mighty one), and John 1:18, where the NWT reads, “No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is at the Father’s side is the one who has explained Him”. In the Greek, both “theon” and “theos”, and without the article (ton, ho), in which case they have exactly the same meaning, “God”. Because of the theology of the JW’s, they translate the second as “god”, as it refers to Jesus Christ. This is the same perversion of the Truth, that they use in John 1:1, when the have the false reading, “and the Word was a god”.

It is clear from what we read in the NWT on Isaiah 9:6, that this verse is speaking about the Lord Jesus Christ. It is also clear, that the NWT has translated the Hebrew, “’êl Gibbôr”, as “Mighty God”, and not “mighty hero”, or “mighty god”, as some do. This is exactly how the NWT reads in Isaiah 10:21, where we also have, “’êl Gibbôr”, where it is used for “Jehovah”, as in the NWT.

Here is solid evidence from the Bible that is published by the Jehovah’s Witnesses, that Jesus Christ is “Mighty God”. I have read arguments from the JW’s, where they say, Jesus Christ is “Mighty God”, but He is not “Almighty God”. This does not address the fact, that they admit to TWO Persons, Who are called “Mighty God”. How does this agree with verses like Isaiah 44:8, “Is there a ’ĕ·lō·w·ah besides me?”; and 45:5, “I am Yahweh, and there is none else. Besides me, there is no ’ĕ·lō·hîm”? Yet, it is clear, we read in Isaiah 9:6, and 10:21, that there are indeed TWO distinct Persons, Who are equally called, “’êl Gibbôr”.

In fact, the older Jewish Rabbis, understood this passage to refer to The Messiah. In the 1st/2nd century AD, Rabbi Yose HaGelili, said of this passage:

“Thus rabbi Jose, of Galilee, says, ‘The name of the Messiah is shâlôm, as is said in Isa 9:6, “Father of Eternity, Prince of Peace.” ‘Ben Sira (fol. 40, of the Amsterdam Edition, 1679) numbers among the eight names of the Messiah those also taken from this passage, Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Prince of Peace. The later Jews, however, have rejected this interpretation, because the Messiah is here described as God” (Albert Barnes Commentary)

About the same time we have the Jewish Targum of Jonathan Ben Uziel the disciple of Hillel (110 BC-10AD; Bab. Meg. 32):

“The prophet saith to the house of David, A child has been born to us, a son has been given to us; and he has taken the law upon himself to keep it, and his name has been called from of old (from eternity, Pauli ed), Wonderful counsellor, Mighty God, He who lives for ever, the Anointed one (or, Messiah), in whose days peace shall increase upon us. Great shall be the splendour of them that observe the law, and of them that preserve peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David and upon his kingdom, to establish it, and to build it in judgement and in righteousness from henceforth and for ever: by the Memra of the Lord of hosts shall this be wrought” (Targum Jonathan Ben Uziel. J F Stenning; The Targum of Isaiah, p 32. Oxford 1953 ed, also, Rev. C. W. H. Pauli; Targum Jonathan Ben Uziel: The Chaldee Paraphrase on The Prophet Isaiah; pp.30, 31)

Even those who actually deny the Deity of Jesus Christ, and that the God of the Bible is “Multi-Personal”, and not “Unitarian”, teach that there is more than One Person, in the Old Testament, Who is called GOD.

In Revelation 5:13-14 we read of the WORSHIP that is to be given to BOTH God the Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

“And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and underneath the earth and on the sea, and all the things in them, saying: “To the One sitting on the throne and to the Lamb be the blessing and the honor and the glory and the might forever and ever.” The four living creatures were saying: “Amen!” and the elders fell down and worshipped” (NWT)

The NWT has correctly translated the Greek, “to krátos”, as “the might”, which means “ALL MIGHTY”. The reading, “be the blessing and the honor and the glory and the might”, has the meaning, of “ALL”, that there is, is to be ascribed “To the One sitting on the throne and to the Lamb”. Notice the use of “kaí” (and), where it is used for “in addition to”. Whatever is to be rendered to the Father, as ALSO to be rendered to Jesus Christ, EQUALLY.

The Greek scholar, Dr A T Robertson, who the JW’s quote in their appendix on John 1:1, as one of their Greek authorities, says this:

“And to the Lamb (kai tōi arniōi). Dative case. Praise and worship are rendered to the Lamb precisely as to God on the throne”

This passage in Revelation 5, is one of the strongest Testimonies in the Bible, to the Absolute Deity of Jesus Christ, and His Equality with the Father. These is no other way to understand what John writes here.

The Teaching of the Trinity, which says there is One God, in Three distinct Persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, is clearly not a Christian invention, as some falsely teach, as the Old Testament, which is not “Christian”, but Jewish, is clear that God is not “Unitarian”.

The Holy Spirit is also taught to be Yahweh in the Old Testament, as is clear in 2 Samuel 23:2-3, where we have a very clear reference on the Holy Spirit as YHWH:

“The Spirit of Yahweh speaks by me; His word is on my tongue. The God of Israel has spoken; the Rock of Israel has said to me”

The Hebrew word “Spirit”, is “rū·aḥ”, which is feminine in gender. This does not mean that the Holy Spirit is a “female”, but, the word is grammatically in the feminine. The word “speaks”, is the hebrew “dib·ber”, is masculine, as is “ū·mil·lā·ṯōw” (His Word). This means that it is “rū·aḥ Yah·weh”, Who is the subject here, is the One Who Speaks by David. Not simply “the Spirit”, but, “the Spirit of Yahweh (rū·aḥ Yah·weh)”, as there is no distinction here. The words, “The God of Israel has spoken; the Rock of Israel has said to me”, also refer to “rū·aḥ Yah·weh”. The Holy Spirit is here Yahweh and Elohim. As in the Hebrew Old Testament.

How can the Jehovah’s Witnesses say that Jesus Christ is “Mighty God”, which is also used for Jehovah, and yet teach that He is “the first created” by Jehovah? This shows in their own translation, that there are TWO distinct Persons, Jehovah and Jesus Christ, Who are also EQUALLY God, in exactly the same way. How can they teach the same of the Holy Spirit, when it is equally clear, that He is Yahweh?
 
  • Like
Reactions: marks

heartwashed

Active Member
Jul 18, 2022
356
54
28
51
LA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It is the contention of the JW's that Jesus is "The Mighty God" but that He therefore is not "Almighty God".

To be consistent in their translation of the LORD always referring to Jehovah God, Psalms 50:1, in the kjv, would be rendered thus:

Psa 50:1, [[A Psalm of Asaph.]] The mighty God, even <Jehovah>, hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof.

To me, this says it all.

Jehovah is "the mighty God".

And therefore, the son that was given, being "the Mighty God" is Jehovah (Isaiah 9:6).
 

ByGraceThroughFaith

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2021
2,870
852
113
Dudley
trinitystudies.org
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
It is the contention of the JW's that Jesus is "The Mighty God" but that He therefore is not "Almighty God".

To be consistent in their translation of the LORD always referring to Jehovah God, Psalms 50:1, in the kjv, would be rendered thus:

Psa 50:1, [[A Psalm of Asaph.]] The mighty God, even <Jehovah>, hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof.

To me, this says it all.

Jehovah is "the mighty God".

And therefore, the son that was given, being "the Mighty God" is Jehovah (Isaiah 9:6).

Psalm 50:1 in the Hebrew is, "’êl ’ĕlō·hîm Yah·weh", which can be literally translated as, "God, God, Yahweh". "mighty" in Hebrew is "gib·bō·wr", though "’êl" can indeed mean "strong, mighty".
 

heartwashed

Active Member
Jul 18, 2022
356
54
28
51
LA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Psalm 50:1 in the Hebrew is, "’êl ’ĕlō·hîm Yah·weh", which can be literally translated as, "God, God, Yahweh". "mighty" in Hebrew is "gib·bō·wr", though "’êl" can indeed mean "strong, mighty".
I go primarily by the kjv.

I believe that it gives Holy Spirit commentary on the original languages.

And since the original manuscripts have been lost to us, I believe that God,

Being Omnipotent and sovereign and loving, preserved His unadulterated message in the kjv...

Which is contended for as being the only translation that gives that unadulterated message.

Personally, I believe that other translations are useful to help us in our understanding.

But, when ever there is a discrepancy, I do believe that the kjv trumps all other versions.
 
  • Love
Reactions: amigo de christo

ByGraceThroughFaith

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2021
2,870
852
113
Dudley
trinitystudies.org
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
I go primarily by the kjv.

I believe that it gives Holy Spirit commentary on the original languages.

And since the original manuscripts have been lost to us, I believe that God,

Being Omnipotent and sovereign and loving, preserved His unadulterated message in the kjv...

Which is contended for as being the only translation that gives that unadulterated message.

Personally, I believe that other translations are useful to help us in our understanding.

But, when ever there is a discrepancy, I do believe that the kjv trumps all other versions.

if you say the original Writings are lost, as they are, then how can you assume the the KJV, which is a very good translation, be the best? It has errors as well, as it is not "Inspired" by the Holy Spirit.
 

heartwashed

Active Member
Jul 18, 2022
356
54
28
51
LA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
if you say the original Writings are lost, as they are, then how can you assume the the KJV, which is a very good translation, be the best? It has errors as well, as it is not "Inspired" by the Holy Spirit.
I simply disagree with you here.

But you are entitled to your opinion.
 

heartwashed

Active Member
Jul 18, 2022
356
54
28
51
LA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I would say that the kjv is inerrant as concerning doctrine.

Otherwise, if there is no Bible that we can rely on as a standard,

How can we even know the truth when translations differ from each other in their basic message?

(for example, I learned recently that the Young's Literal Translation translates Matthew 25:46 in such a way as to promote the doctrine of Universalism in that verse; while in the kjv it clearly sets forth the doctrine of eternal torments)
 
  • Like
Reactions: TLHKAJ

ByGraceThroughFaith

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2021
2,870
852
113
Dudley
trinitystudies.org
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
I simply disagree with you here.

But you are entitled to your opinion.

it is not an "opinion" but fact.

In a very important verse in the OT for the Trinity, the KJV gets the Hebrew grammar wrong:

KJV, "and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me"

Literal Hebrew into English, "Now the Lord God has sent Me, and His Spirit.”
 

heartwashed

Active Member
Jul 18, 2022
356
54
28
51
LA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
it is not an "opinion" but fact.

In a very important verse in the OT for the Trinity, the KJV gets the Hebrew grammar wrong:

KJV, "and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me"

Literal Hebrew into English, "Now the Lord God has sent Me, and His Spirit.”

How does the kjv rendering deny the Trinity? I don't see it as doing that.
 

heartwashed

Active Member
Jul 18, 2022
356
54
28
51
LA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Also, there is no guarantee that the Hebrew text you are looking at is reliable.

Those manuscripts have been lost to us.

My faith in the sovereignty, Omnipotence, and love of God helps me to know that when I read my Bible out of the kjv, that I am getting a reliable message.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy

heartwashed

Active Member
Jul 18, 2022
356
54
28
51
LA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
it does not work that way. "concerning doctrine", so otherwise, like history, or geography, etc, it is "faulty"?

I've seen specific errors concerning the number of horses that were in a stable, for example (don't ask me to dredge them up; they came to my attention a long time ago and I generally don't use that information for anything).

Which has no bearing on the teaching of the Holy Spirit concerning salvation and redemption.
 

ByGraceThroughFaith

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2021
2,870
852
113
Dudley
trinitystudies.org
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Also, there is no guarantee that the Hebrew text you are looking at is reliable.

Those manuscripts have been lost to us.

My faith in the sovereignty, Omnipotence, and love of God helps me to know that when I read my Bible out of the kjv, that I am getting a reliable message.

another KJV only person! nothing further to say, as you are blinded by your false view!
 

ByGraceThroughFaith

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2021
2,870
852
113
Dudley
trinitystudies.org
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
I've seen specific errors concerning the number of horses that were in a stable, for example (don't ask me to dredge them up; they came to my attention a long time ago and I generally don't use that information for anything).

Which has no bearing on the teaching of the Holy Spirit concerning salvation and redemption.

here is another KJV error

Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth"

Hebrew is, "haš·šā·ma·yim", which is, "the heavens", in the plural, with "hā·’ā·reṣ" "the earth", which means the entire universe.
 

heartwashed

Active Member
Jul 18, 2022
356
54
28
51
LA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
another KJV only person! nothing further to say, as you are blinded by your false view!

I go primarily by the kjv.

I believe that it gives Holy Spirit commentary on the original languages.

And since the original manuscripts have been lost to us, I believe that God,

Being Omnipotent and sovereign and loving, preserved His unadulterated message in the kjv...

Which is contended for as being the only translation that gives that unadulterated message.

Personally, I believe that other translations are useful to help us in our understanding.

But, when ever there is a discrepancy, I do believe that the kjv trumps all other versions.

As indicated by the quote above, I am not kjv-only but kjv-superior in my theology.

Do you believe that in Matthew 25:46, the YLT's rendering is valid?

You might even cross over into becoming a Universalist because of that!
 

heartwashed

Active Member
Jul 18, 2022
356
54
28
51
LA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
here is another KJV error

Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth"

Hebrew is, "haš·šā·ma·yim", which is, "the heavens", in the plural, with "hā·’ā·reṣ" "the earth", which means the entire universe.
God created the firmament (the first heaven) but the Universe (the second heaven) was empty space before God created anything.
 

ByGraceThroughFaith

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2021
2,870
852
113
Dudley
trinitystudies.org
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
As indicated by the quote above, I am not kjv-only but kjv-superior in my theology.

Do you believe that in Matthew 25:46, the YLT's rendering is valid?

You might even cross over into becoming a Universalist because of that!

As I said, YLT like the KJV are only man-made translations, and prone to have errors, because we humans are not infallible
 
Status
Not open for further replies.