Speaking in tongues is NOT a gift

[Hidden In Him]

Hopefully that'll answer your question.

Not quite, but I appreciate the answer. I was referring to 1 Corinthians 12:31 in light of the other verses you quoted/cited.

ζηλοῦτε δὲ τὰ χαρίσματα τὰ μείζονα = Be zealous for the greater gifts.

My question is, in light of your position, what gifts was Paul specifically urging them to be zealous for, and what gifts were these greater than?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Well if John 20:22 is when the apostles received holy spirit, poor Thomas missed out (John 20:24). I think Jesus was actually instructing the Apostles for what was to come, i.e., the actual baptism in holy spirit.

That's the standard Pentehostile teaching: "Jesus ministered NOTHING to the disciples in the upper room". So then you have to explain why Jesus used the term "Endued" which is an External clothing, when speaking about Acts 2. Thomas' infilling happened a bit later, as the record shows.

I understand you to think we should to correct 1 Corinthians 12:7 to read: 1 Cor 12:7, But the categories of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

Chuckle!!! Pay attention to the LIST in 1 Cor 12. "Miracles" is a "Category". "Healings" is a category, "FAITH" is a category.
Each one of them has cover hundreds of specific giftings. Interpretation of Tongues" is a specific gifting, Discernation of Spirits is pretty specific.

Whether or not I personally speak with tongues or perform miracles is not the issue.

But you're trying to "Come off" as an EXPERT in the genre, and teach US.

 

[Rich R]

Not quite, but I appreciate the answer. I was referring to 1 Corinthians 12:31 in light of the other verses you quoted/cited.

ζηλοῦτε δὲ τὰ χαρίσματα τὰ μείζονα = Be zealous for the greater gifts.

My question is, in light of your position, what gifts was Paul specifically urging them to be zealous for, and what gifts were these greater than?

See post #102.

 

[amigo de christo]

Rather odd that the bible speaks as though its a gift . So why would anyone make a post saying otherwise .

 

[Rich R]

That's the standard Pentehostile teaching: "Jesus ministered NOTHING to the disciples in the upper room". So then you have to explain why Jesus used the term "Endued" which is an External clothing, when speaking about Acts 2. Thomas' infilling happened a bit later, as the record shows.

I'm not Pentecostal. Just using the standard Bible teaching.

Chuckle!!! Pay attention to the LIST in 1 Cor 12. "Miracles" is a "Category". "Healings" is a category, "FAITH" is a category.
Each one of them has cover hundreds of specific giftings. Interpretation of Tongues" is a specific gifting, Discernation of Spirits is pretty specific.

What version are you using that has the word "category" in 1 Cor 12?

But you're trying to "Come off" as an EXPERT in the genre, and teach US.

Other than smug little barbs, what are you doing?

 

[Hidden In Him]

See post #102.

You sure you have the right Post #? That post doesn't answer what I'm asking.

 

[JohnPaul]

I knew someone who spoke in tongues, her name is Reagan MacNeil.

 

[Rich R]

You sure you have the right Post #? That post doesn't answer what I'm asking.

Context. The charisma of 1 Cor 7:7, 12:4, 12:9, 12:28, and 12:30.

That's my final answer! If it's not the right answer, you tell me what is.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Context. The charisma of 1 Cor 7:7, 12:4, 12:9, 12:28, and 12:30.

That's my final answer! If it's not the right answer, you tell me what is.

You are dodging like a kid in grade school and you know it, LoL!

Just keep in mind that in order to have a proper doctrine, you have to take all the verses regarding it into consideration. Otherwise you end up settling for an interpretation that is still left wanting.

I'll leave you alone. Just wanted to show you that I don't think your interpretation fully proves itself out.

God bless, and thanks for the polite conversation : )
- H

 

[Enoch111]

Rather odd that the bible speaks as though its a gift. So why would anyone make a post saying otherwise .

Several reasons:
1. Stir the pot
2. Mislead the gullible
3. Aggravate the ones who know the truth
4. Waste everyone's time and energy
5. Thumb your nose at what is already known and believed.

 

[Dropship]

We had a fellow in our church up in Ohio who, regular as clockwork, would rip off a "tongue" at the same point in the service (not interrupting anything, and during a time in the proceedings when "Manifestations" were typical), and every one of his utterances WAS THE SAME - same length, same "words", same order, same, same...
SO - naturally I wrote him off as just another religious "flake". You DO FIND such people in Pentecostal Churches (Baptist CHurches too).
BUT then, after one of his same 'ol, same 'ol utterances, I WAS BURDENED to interpret, which I did.
And I learned not to be so Judgmental of another man's Gifting...

But why didn't that bloke simply speak english in the first place so everybody could understand him without the need for an interpreter?
After all, Jesus didn't do tongues or tell anybody else to do it..
As for other tongue-speakers in other denominations, when my sister moved to Plymouth some years ago she visited a local Pentecostal church building down her road with a view to joining, but she never went back, she said "They were all waving their arms in the air jabbering and I felt embarassed."
I bet satan would be chuckling because it puts people off Christianity.
Paul wisely said-"If the whole church speaks in tongues,won't a newcomer think you're out of your minds? But if you all preach, he'll worship God" (1 Corinthians 14:24)
And he diplomatically said-
"I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you preach" (1 Corinthians 14:5)

So disobeying Paul is definitely a naughty-step offence..
A good compromise would be for tongue-speakers to only do it privately at home or in small groups.

 

[Dropship]

Do not mock the Holy Spirit. And just because you don't understand the wonderful gift of tongues do not mock those who do..

How can you prove tongues is a gift of the holy spirit and not demonic possession?
Like I said earlier, it puts people off Christianity and I bet satan is chuckling.
And there's no point to it anyway, why not just speak plain english instead?

 

[L.A.M.B.]

It saddens me to say this but so many on here whom THINK they are seasoned mature believers need to just walk away from the meat bc you have no idea what the word says. Go back to the milk and start off right for without the fullness of God one can not understand what the word says.

I do not care if you've been in a church all you life nor any amount of years except very recently, for you have zero maturity nor spiritual understanding of what thus saith the Lord.

The ones who do not study are easy to spot for you copy & paste or worse yet present an unidentified source for claim as your own thoughts. Not everyone who claims to read the bible are believers nor have some of you ever got past the milk !

 

[Tommy Cool]

Exactly!

Jesus was perfectly willing to endue Judas with the same power from on high as he did all the others. What love! But it just stands to reason he'd have forgiven Judas considering he asked his Father to forgive the folks who hung him on the cross.

In general, tradition really does go a long way towards making God's work ineffectual, which is really nothing new.

Matt 15:6,

And honour not his father or his mother, [he shall be free]. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.​

Betrayed by an intimate friend ….beaten and tortured for almost 40 hours …and He has the heart and love to forgive ….And I have trouble when someone tried to jack me around….

Jesus Christ was a living example of the love of God in manifestation…

 

[Jim B]

It saddens me to say this but so many on here whom THINK they are seasoned mature believers need to just walk away from the meat bc you have no idea what the word says. Go back to the milk and start off right for without the fullness of God one can not understand what the word says.

I do not care if you've been in a church all you life nor any amount of years except very recently, for you have zero maturity nor spiritual understanding of what thus saith the Lord.

The ones who do not study are easy to spot for you copy & paste or worse yet present an unidentified source for claim as your own thoughts. Not everyone who claims to read the bible are believers nor have some of you ever got past the milk !

Can you spell "self-righteousness"/ Perhaps "ego" would be easier for you.

BTW, your own words condemn you: "The ones who do not study are easy to spot for you copy & paste or worse yet present an unidentified source for claim as your own thoughts." You did not paste any scripture or give a source!

 

[Bob Carabbio]

But why didn't that bloke simply speak english in the first place so everybody could understand him without the need for an interpreter?

Chuckle!!! Go ahead and take your complaint to God, since you're obviously much wiser than HE is.

Ask him why He'd do something STUPID, like gifting a "tongue", and an "Interpretation", instead of simply gifting a prophetic utterance in the common tongue.

Let us know what His answer is.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

How can you prove tongues is a gift of the holy spirit and not demonic possession?

No problem. The Holy Spirit GIFT of "Tongues" (as well as all the other Giftings) is completely voluntary. One can refuse the burden if one foolishly elects to do so. No "Emotionalism", or compulsion involved.

Demonic manifestations, on the other hand, are compulsive. The person so afflicted has no choice, and may not even be aware of what they're doing, being in a transient state.

How do I "Prove" ANYTHING to you??? Chuckle!!! That's the Holy Spirit's job, not mine.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Rather odd that the bible speaks as though its a gift . So why would anyone make a post saying otherwise .

Well, for one thing there are two types of manifestations of tongues. Together they are manifestations. But the one for all of us individually for personal prayer TO God is called a 'sign,' Mark 16:16-18, and the other for the profit of all and for ministry FROM God is called a 'gift,' 1 Corinthians 12.

A manifestation could be called the category for all the supernatural impartations from the Holy Spirit. That could include dreams and visions also. Get it?


cc: @Rich R

 

[Pearl]

I believe there to be four basic manifestations of the gift of tongues.

· Tongues for personal edification. (1 Corinthians 14:4) This is the supernatural language the Holy Spirit prays through us that we can use to pray hour after hour if we desire. It often accompanies the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

· Tongues which require an interpretation. (1 Corinthians 14:5) This manifestation of tongues is normally presented in a public assembly accompanied by an interpretation by the same or another person. (Romans 8:26)

· Tongues of deep intercessional groaning. (Romans 8:26) This diversification of tongues empowers the believers to stand in the gap for their own lives, their families, their church, their city, their nation etc. God may also call on them to intercede for someone or for some situation that is totally unknown.

· Tongues as a sign to unbelievers. (1 Corinthians 14:22) This is the phenomenon that took place on the day of Pentecost. (Acts2:4-11) It occurs when the Holy Spirit transcends the intellect and all language barriers by empowering a believer to preach, teach or testify about Christ in some language of man of which the believer himself has no knowledge.

· I have also found that singing in tongues to praise and worship is another lovely way we can use the gift .

· And praying in tongues silently either in support of another person who is ‘ministering’ or in a public place is another way of using this gift.

I have come under fire on some Christian sites for expressing these views but I firmly believe them.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

How can you prove tongues is a gift of the holy spirit and not demonic possession?
Like I said earlier, it puts people off Christianity and I bet satan is chuckling.
And there's no point to it anyway, why not just speak plain english instead?

Dropship, there are demonic tongues, and the Catholic Church uses that manifestation as a sign someone is possessed. But they are smart enough to investigate how they became possessed in the first place. It is usually from someone opening the door to the demonic realm by using an Ouija board or Tarot Cards, or going for a psychic reading of some sort. But the Catholic Church also recognizes the tongues from the Holy Spirit. So how do you tell them apart? Let me help:

A believer and follower in Jesus cannot speak in demonic tongues. The demonic cannot touch them. 1 John 5:18. And all believers CAN speak in tongues for that is promised as a sign of His followers. Even you if you are born again. (Know not all who believe they are Christians actually are. They MUST be born again of the Spirit to become dead to sin. They receive a new divine nature that hates sin, just as God does). Being born again is the most important sign one is on the path to salvation. And they can speak in tongues genuinely. But even the born again that do not sin anymore can have so many chains of unbelief about the gifts that make Satan jump up and down with glee, and never speak in tongues for edification. But they also never receive any of the higher gifts either. That's his main goal - hindering ministry.

A non-believer who somehow opens the door to the demonic cannot speak in Holy Spirit tongues, only demonic. Usually through joining themselves with a religion such as voo doo.

And I've got a bit of news for you. Satan loves it when so called Christians mock the gifts of God, especially when they believe his claims that those manifestations are from him, and not God. I used to believe that lie too when I was young and believed what my denomination told me. But God had a plan for my life as a teacher, and cleansed my mind of all those lies.