The Pre-Trib Rapture

[No Pre-TB]

Not according to the bible. Even was created AFTER the day of rest:

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
The Creation of Man and Woman
Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
Gen 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
Gen 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Gen 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
Gen 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Gen 2:10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
Gen 2:11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
Gen 2:12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
Gen 2:13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
Gen 2:14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
Gen 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Gen 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
Gen 2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
Gen 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
Gen 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
Gen 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Gen 2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

Genesis 1:26 to the end of the Chapter. On the 6th day before rest,
God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

It may be observed, that the plural number is used, "let them", which shows that the name "man" is general in the preceding clause, and includes male and female, as we find by the following verse man was created…

Eve was created with Adam before God rested. As one commentator puts it:
The whole of this second narrative (Ch. 2) is pre-eminently anthropomorphic. In the previous history Elohim commands, and it is done. Here He forms, and builds, and plants, and breathes into His work, and is the companion and friend of the creature He has made. It thus sets before us the love and tenderness of Jehovah, who provides for man a home, fashions for him a wife to be his partner and helpmate, rejoices in his intellect, and brings the lower world to him to see what he will call them, and even after the fall provides the poor outcasts with clothing.

Gen 1:27
God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

 

[Keraz]

as you are TESTED during the Tribulation.

Hebrews 12:7-8 You must endure discipline as children of God ......If you avoid testing and escape the trials to come, then you must be illegitimate and not true children of God.

 

[marks]

Hebrews 12:7-8 You must endure discipline as children of God ......If you avoid testing and escape the trials to come, then you must be illegitimate and not true children of God.

What translation is this? It seems a bit liberal with it's wording. Avoid testing, escape the trials to come, I don't see that in the passage.

Rather, if you do not endure chastening you are not a son. Not that you are chastened and don't endure through it, rather, if you don't undergo chastening, which has a process, and yields it's good result . . . and afterward, the peaceable fruits of righteousness.

Much love!

 

[Philologos]

Act 3:
[19] Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
[20] And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
[21] Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
[22] For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
[23] And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

As much as I appreciate the response, it seems you may have meant it for someone else as it doesn't fit too well with the curiosity I had about your aforementioned process of elimination to determine the pretribulation rapture. But thank you for offering Scripture instead.

 

[ewq1938]

Eve was created with Adam

Not according to the bible. Adam was created alone, God made animals and helpmeets but they weren't suitable so lastly he made Eve.


Gen 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
Gen 2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
Gen 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
Gen 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
Gen 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

 

[Timtofly]

Don’t falsely give me credit for the term “mortals”, it is Scriptural!



The millennium of Christ Jesus’ reign IN His KINGDOM, WITH His Saints who have put on Christ, have been raised incorruptible.



In Christ Jesus’ Kingdom, With His Saints, who have put on Christ, have been raised incorruptible.


Now you contradict yourself...



Still Disagree with you.

During the Millennium reign of Christ Jesus’,
* immortals are reigning WITH Christ Jesus’ IN His Kingdom.
* Christ Jesus IS KING of kings, LORD of lords.
* Christ Jesus’ IS KING of His Kingdom, LORD of His Kingdom.
* Christ Jesus’ Saints are WITH Him, IN His Kingdom.
* OUTSIDE of Christ Jesus’ Kingdom, ARE MORTALS.
* Mortals, that reproduce, live, die, are earthly nations, earthly kings, earthly lords, Believe IN Christ Jesus their KING, their LORD.
* Mortals, labor OUTSIDE of Christ’s Kingdom, build their own dwellings, grow their own food, ARE blessed abundantly, NEEDS met, No contending with fears of droughts, famines, wild animals, wars, corrupt governments, thieves, liars, cheats, Content with their OWN Nations prosperity.
They BEING MORTAL, are still subject to Physical DEATH.
* During the Millennial Reign, Mortal men WILL Physically DIE, with BELIEF in their KING Christ Jesus’ and BE Resurrected in the First Resurrection AFTER the Millennial Reign.
* As the Millennial Reign is Ending, SATAN IS LOOSED.
* Satan scurries about the NATIONS, (Outside of Christ Jesus’ Kingdom), to INFLUENCE “mortal men” AGAIN.
* After Mortal men Having A History of Ancestors of 1,000 years of Peace and Prosperity, last days of the Millennial reign, kings of the Earth, SHALL BE WEAKENED BY Satan’s Influences, raise up Armies AND come AGAINST Christ Jesus’ KINGDOM.
* THOSE “kings”, Those who participate in their “kings” armies, SHALL ALL be KILLED, and face damnation consequences at their Day of Judgement.
* Satan and His band of Demonic followers, shall be defeated, and thrown into the pits of hell.

^^^ All mortals, (Since Jesus FIRST Coming to Earth, and OVERCOMING DEATH) were OFFERED A WAY to ALSO OVERCOME DEATH. Some mortals freely choose Jesus’ offering, Some mortals freely rejected Jesus’ offering.

At the END of the Millennial Reign Of Christ Jesus’ Earthly Kingdom, He reigning OVER His Saints IN His Kingdom and OVER Earthly Mortals OF ALL World Nations...IS WHEN, OVERCOMING DEATH is manifested.
^^^ The LAST of the MORTALS experience DEATH. (Some with Christ Jesus, Some without Christ Jesus).
^^^ THAT IS THE DAY OF VICTORY OVER DEATH.

Give me one verse that declares humans are mortals. Give me one verse that claims humans become immortals.

Scripture calls all in Adam sinners, corruptible, dead, flesh and blood, or flesh and bone.

 

[Timtofly]

The term MORTAL, means subject to Death. Must Die.
Have I said any such stupid thing to give you cause to wonder if I think such a stupid thing? If so, quote me and we can discuss THAT.
In the meantime, can’t speak for you, however I am aware, DRY LAND was established for mortal mans habitat. Mortal men live and die.

* Presently about 70% of our global world is Water, (wet, oceans, ice, snow, not dry land)
* Presently about 30% of our global world is Dry Land, sufficient for manKIND to inhabit.
* Since the beginning of manKIND, men have taken turns Living, inhabiting the Dry Land, Dying and thus NOT inhabiting the Dry Land.

* God’s Word has foretold, of a NEW Earthly World, without the masses of Water and uninhabitable peaks.

* I am confident God has accurate calculation skills and that the New Earth Will Sufficiently Accommodate All of His faithful saints.

There will be none of Adam's dead corruptible flesh in the Millennium, period.

If a person disobeys Jesus the King, they will be terminated. Only one chance. No one naturally dies of decay and sickness. They already died to Adam's dead flesh, and were changed into permanent incorruptible physical bodies. They cannot sin. A young child that disobeys is immediately placed in Death. That is not dying because of sin. That is the result of being disobedient the first and only time. There will not be another chance to disobey a second time.

The majority of new births will never disobey. They will live on into the NHNE. So, yes birth and no death for 1,000 years. Billions of new people to enter the NHNE.

 

[Keraz]

What translation is this? It seems a bit liberal with it's wording. Avoid testing, escape the trials to come, I don't see that in the passage.

Rather, if you do not endure chastening you are not a son. Not that you are chastened and don't endure through it, rather, if you don't undergo chastening, which has a process, and yields it's good result . . . and afterward, the peaceable fruits of righteousness.
Much love!

The Revised English Bible. 1989
The best translation for accurate and unbiased interpretation.

I posted it to refute the rapture to heaven false teaching, because the worst aspect of that fable, is how believers of it expect to escape the trials and tribulations of Gods wrath.
The simple meaning of Hebrews 12:7-8 is that those who do not have any testing by God's wrath, are not His children, but are illegitimate and not part of God's family.
1 Peter 4:12 states that we ALL will face the fiery trial of the vengeance and wrath of God. Expecting God to remove anyone before the Sixth Seal disaster, is pretentious, arrogant and will not happen.

 

[Taken]

Give me one verse that declares humans are mortals. Give me one verse that claims humans become immortals.

Scripture calls all in Adam sinners, corruptible, dead, flesh and blood, or flesh and bone.

Mortal;
Subject to death; destined to die. Man is mortal

Rom 6
[12] Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom.8
[11] But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
1Cor.15
[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
2Cor.4
[11] For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
2Cor.5
[4] For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.


Have you never heard “mortally wounded”?
It means they died from being wounded.

 

[Timtofly]

Mortal;
Subject to death; destined to die. Man is mortal

Rom 6
[12] Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom.8
[11] But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
1Cor.15
[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
2Cor.4
[11] For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
2Cor.5
[4] For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.


Have you never heard “mortally wounded”?
It means they died from being wounded.

Still not calling humans mortal, or immortal.

Yes humans die, mortality. This flesh is death. Scripture still does not substitute the word human with mortal or immortal.

 

[Taken]

Still not calling humans mortal, or immortal.

Yes humans die, mortality. This flesh is death. Scripture still does not substitute the word human with mortal or immortal.

What do you think the scriptures are speaking of ... rabbits?

 

[farouk]

What do you think the scriptures are speaking of ... rabbits?

@Taken Interesting way of putting it....

I'm not sure where the other poster is coming from, doctrinally...........

 

[Taken]

@Taken Interesting way of putting it....

I'm not sure where the other poster is coming from, doctrinally...........

Blathering nonsense.

 

[Timtofly]

@Taken Interesting way of putting it....

I'm not sure where the other poster is coming from, doctrinally...........

Just don't think we should use pagan terminology. But obviously the universal church decided that is a proper way to go, infusing pagan terms into Scripture and every day lingo.

 

[Timtofly]

Blathering nonsense.

As opposed to just plain blathering Greek mythology.

What do you think the scriptures are speaking of ... rabbits?

Rabbits will live in the Millennium. Adam's dead flesh will not carry into the Millennium. You have no verse to prove that ideology.

 

[Philologos]

Yes, it does imply that it's talking about physical harm, but it's not a literal sword which you have acknowledged. Why do you act as if it is?

It doesn't indicate that fire does not come down at that time, either. It's all symbolic. To think that the literal destruction has to resemble what it would be like if it occurred by way of a literal sword is like saying that in reality Satan should look like a dragon with seven heads and ten horns. Why can you not understand that the real things that are symbolized don't have to resemble the symbols being used?

Another example is the seven candlesticks which represent churches. Do churches resemble candlesticks in reality? No. So, why does the literal destruction caused by a symbolic sword have to resemble the destruction that would be caused by a literal sword?

And what is it in reality that you think comes out of His mouth? You've said before you think the sword is symbolic, so what does the symbolic sword symbolize and how exactly does it kill people?

No, Amillennialism agrees with what scripture as a whole teaches which is that all unbelievers will be killed at Christ's return, that there is one resurrection event of all the dead, and one judgment day. For example, Acts 17:31 very clearly indicates that God has set or appointed one day to judge everyone which scripture calls the day of judgment or judgment day. Why would you interpret Revelation 19 and 20 in such a way that contradicts that by claiming there are two judgment days?

Only words come from His mouth; the sword merely symbolizes the nature of those words. The sword generally presents the idea of authority-to-judge(divide/choose). Context clues will help you understand how the symbol is used. In this case, it may appear, (literally), to us as His commanding the activities of warfare.

 

[marks]

The Revised English Bible. 1989
The best translation for accurate and unbiased interpretation.

Thank you! Is this the one you normally use?

I definitely do not agree that this is an accurate translation. Those words don't appear.

Much love!

 

[Taken]

As opposed to just plain blathering Greek mythology.


Rabbits will live in the Millennium. Adam's dead flesh will not carry into the Millennium. You have no verse to prove that ideology.

Gave you verses. Can not understand for you and not interested in your elementary wonderings and silliness of what mortal means.

 

[farouk]

Gave you verses. Can not understand for you and not interested in your elementary wonderings and silliness of what mortal means.

@Taken I think Ephesians 2 - the opening - shows human mortality and the need for regeneration.............

 

[Taken]

@Taken I think Ephesians 2 - the opening - shows human mortality and the need for regeneration.............

Yes agree, however when a man knows not WHAT mortal means, eh speaking of it is like listening to someone attempting to engage in a lengthy irrelevant argument that only square pegs fit in round holes...