Speaking in tongues is NOT a gift

[JunChosen]

Ok, and what exact date was that? Around A.D. 90, sometime in the mid 60s, or at some other date?

Look! The date is irrelevant. What counts is that it was written at the end of Revelation and Revelation is the last book of the Bible.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Keiw]

It may come as somewhat of a surprise to most Christians to learn that the scriptures never call tongues a gift. In every English and Greek version of the scriptures that I know of, tongues is unambiguously called a manifestation. A manifestation is not the same thing as a gift.

Regardless of how one feels about whether tongues is valid today or not, at least we ought to know what it is before making that decision.

Acts 2:38,

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.​

The gift is holy spirit which is not the same thing as tongues. Now spirit can not be seen, heard, smelled, tasted or touched. It is not registered by any of the five senses in the material world.

John 3:6,

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.​

John 3:8,

The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.​

The word "wind" is the same Greek word used for spirit, pneuma. It is the word used in both John 3:6 and Acts 2:36. While spirit itself can not be seen, the effects of it's operations can be seen, i.e., it is manifested into the material world. We can't see wind, but when it is energized we can see the effects it has on trees. That is exactly what John said in verse 3:8.

1 Cor 12:7-10,

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another [divers] kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:​

As the scriptures clearly say, tongues is but one of nine manifestations of the spirit.

As Peter said on the day of Pentecost, anyone who repents and accepts Jesus as their Lord and believes God raise him from the dead (Rom 9-10), will receive the gift of holy spirit. That gift is the very essence of being born again. It is Christ in you (Col 1:27), the hope of future glory. It is the incorruptible seed of 1 Pet 1:23. All born again Christians have the gift.

Now that gift, that power from on high (Luk 24:29), is completely under the control of the believer. It can lay dormant in which case it's power will lay dormant. Or, by the believer's free will, it can be energized in nine different ways as listed in 1 Cor 12:7-10. When that is done, its full potential power is realized and manifested into the physical world. For example, tongues, interpretation of tongues, and prophecy are manifestations that can be heard by anyone with ears. The invisible gift of spirit is manifested in the physical world when any one of the nine manifestations are operated by the believer.

As I said, regardless of how one feels about tongues, I think we at least owe God the practice of calling tongues what He calls them, i.e., a manifestation, not a gift.

I might also point out that Jesus said we would do the works he did and even greater works (John 14:12). It is quite easy to see Jesus operating 7 of the 9 manifestations throughout his ministry. The only ones he did not practice are tongues and interpretation of tongues, and and that is simply because the were not available until the day of Pentecost which was of course some time after he walked the earth. Could tongues and interpretation of tongues be the greater works? Not sure, but maybe they are.

Look, we wrestle, not against flesh and blood, but against spiritual powers from on high (Eph 6:12). Would it not stand to reason that we need spiritual power to wrestle against spiritual power? Of course it does, and those powers are none other than the nine manifestations of the gift of holy spirit. Ephesians 6:17 tells us to take the sword of the spirit. A sword simply hanging on one's belt, will do nothing when facing an attack by someone who is actually swinging their sword towards your head. To defeat such an enemy it is necessary to take the sword out of its sheath and actually start swinging, to start using its potential, to makes its power manifested to the enemy's, the devil's, head!

The mention of tongues in the NT, was speaking in a foreign language. Not gibberish. Everyone would have ran away from Jesus followers who were speaking to them in public in tongues if it were gibberish. The holy spirit allowed them to speak to the foreigners in their language, even if they never spoke the language before.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Look! The date is irrelevant. What counts is that it was written at the end of Revelation and Revelation is the last book of the Bible.

Very relevant. Goes to either establish or disprove the veracity of your claim that the gifts ceased after the date at which the canon was closed, so what date was that?

 

[JunChosen]

Very relevant. Goes to either establish or disprove the veracity of your claim that the gifts ceased after the date at which the canon was closed, so what date was that?

We know that the first five books of the Bible was written by Moses by the command of God. Then God tells Jeremiah to write a book along with the holy men in the Old and New Testaments [2 Peter 1:21]. And all these books were written in the span of 1500 yrs. by different writers and became one book called the Bible. And at the end of this book God gave two ominous warnings. That is, we are NOT to ADD or TAKE AWAY from the prophecy of this book. If we do not pay heed to these warnings God will add to them the plagues written in the Scriptures!

At the same token, God is insisting that there will no more be further revelation coming from Him. All have been written in His book, the Bible!

To God Be The Glory.
P.S. We are of course talking about the phenomenon of tongues, correct?

 

[quietthinker]

That is, we are NOT to ADD or TAKE AWAY from the prophecy of this book. If we do not pay heed to these warnings God will add to them the plagues written in the Scriptures!

Goodness gracious me......The introduction to the book (singular) 'Revelation', tells you who it's from and who it's to and its reason. The end of Revelation concludes these revelations to John with the warning you quoted above. This warning is specific to what was just revealed to John. Thats gotta be as obvious as a train smash.
Applying it to all of the collected writings of the bible is the imagination of an over enthusiastic religious mind.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Oh, I understood you perfectly. It is they, including yourself that don't understand the gift of the Holy Spirit to teach them Scripture. They do not take into account "That all Scripture is given...." 2 Timothy 3:16



From Genesis to Revelation ALL Scripture interrelates! As I've already asserted, Revelation cannot stand apart from the Bible, this is common sense. Revelation has many doctrines only the Bible can enlighten as per 2 Timothy 3:16.



As a Christian, it is a blessing and a privilege to read the whole Bible. God told Jeremiah to write the things He dictated to him in a book. Likewise, God told Moses the same as with Paul, the apostles, and prophets . And, all these books were compiled and made into on Book called the Bible.



It's because you did not get the gist of 1 Corinthians 14:22.

To God Be The Glory

I am not sure how you would know what I 'have the gist of'

Frankly I believe the cessational doctrines are a cover for lack of fruitfulness in the church.

Have a look at my testimony - you will no doubt claim it is all smoke and mirrors.

Jesus's Ministry

 

[JunChosen]

Hey Carl, check this podcast....it addresses the phrase above and gets the cogs whirring.
111 The PLAN

Another killer that destroys God's people! Hosea 4:6 reads:

"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge:...."

 

[JunChosen]

Have a look at my testimony - you will no doubt claim it is all smoke and mirrors.

Not at all. I believe Satan comes as an angel of light mimicking Jesus. Lol

 

[Carl Emerson]

Not at all. I believe Satan comes as an angel of light mimicking Jesus. Lol

Yes he does - so how do you know you are standing in the truth?

Hint - there are a few things satan will not do...

 

[Hidden In Him]

We know that the first five books of the Bible was written by Moses by the command of God. Then God tells Jeremiah to write a book along with the holy men in the Old and New Testaments [2 Peter 1:21]. And all these books were written in the span of 1500 yrs. by different writers and became one book called the Bible. And at the end of this book God gave two ominous warnings. That is, we are NOT to ADD or TAKE AWAY from the prophecy of this book. If we do not pay heed to these warnings God will add to them the plagues written in the Scriptures!

At the same token, God is insisting that there will no more be further revelation coming from Him. All have been written in His book, the Bible!

To God Be The Glory.
P.S. We are of course talking about the phenomenon of tongues, correct?

I can tell you're not going to be answering my question, Lol.

To put it plainly, and I certainly mean you no disrespect here, your theory is little more than a modern religious fabrication with no basis in history. This is why many who hold to it cannot point to any specific date.

God bless,
- H

 

[Rich R]

I don't know everything about Scripture, but in this case, yes I have a better understanding than you, that's obvious!

Well aren't you special!

 

[Jim B]

Not at all. I believe Satan comes as an angel of light mimicking Jesus. Lol

You follow "I believe Satan comes as an angel of light mimicking Jesus" with "lol", i.e., laugh out loud. Do you really think this is a laughing matter?

 

[Rich R]

This is a prime example of eisegesis!

How about some substance? Using scripture, can you show me where I'm using eisegesis? Who were the eleven to whom Jesus appeared, keep in mind that Thomas was not one of them?

 

[Jim B]

The mention of tongues in the NT, was speaking in a foreign language. Not gibberish. Everyone would have ran away from Jesus followers who were speaking to them in public in tongues if it were gibberish. The holy spirit allowed them to speak to the foreigners in their language, even if they never spoke the language before.

You need to read the Bible more thoroughly. 1 Corinthians 14:14-15a, " If I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unproductive. What should I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind."

I speak and pray in tongues daily, and it is exactly what Paul describes above. Your unbelief doesn't affect the truth one way or the other.

 

[Jim B]

How about some substance? Using scripture, can you show me where I'm using eisegesis? Who were the eleven to whom Jesus appeared, keep in mind that Thomas was not one of them?

Which post does this refer to? I couldn't find it.

 

[Rich R]

Which post does this refer to? I couldn't find it.

#169

 

[Jim B]

#169

Matthew 27:1-5, "When it was early in the morning, all the chief priests and the elders of the people plotted against Jesus to execute him. They tied him up, led him away, and handed him over to Pilate the governor.

Now when Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus had been condemned, he regretted what he had done and returned the thirty silver coins to the chief priests and the elders, saying, “I have sinned by betraying innocent blood!” But they said, “What is that to us? You take care of it yourself!” So Judas threw the silver coins into the temple and left. Then he went out and hanged himself."

If you read this logically, it says that Jesus was condemned in the early morning, Judas saw what had happened, returned the money, then hanged himself. No significant time elapses between the events.

Your attempt to change the time elapsed is eisegesis.

 

[Rich R]

Matthew 27:1-5, "When it was early in the morning, all the chief priests and the elders of the people plotted against Jesus to execute him. They tied him up, led him away, and handed him over to Pilate the governor.

Now when Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus had been condemned, he regretted what he had done and returned the thirty silver coins to the chief priests and the elders, saying, “I have sinned by betraying innocent blood!” But they said, “What is that to us? You take care of it yourself!” So Judas threw the silver coins into the temple and left. Then he went out and hanged himself."

If you read this logically, it says that Jesus was condemned in the early morning, Judas saw what had happened, returned the money, then hanged himself. No significant time elapses between the events.

Your attempt to change the time elapsed is eisegesis.

So who were the eleven when Thomas was absent?

Mark 16:14,

Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.​

John 20:24,

But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
​

 

[Jim B]

So who were the eleven when Thomas was absent?

Mark 16:14,

Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.​

John 20:24,

But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
​

I have better things to do with my time than play this game. I don't know and don't care who you think the eleven were.

 

[theefaith]

And most people who claim to be Christian aren’t!