The Resurrection is for all people (thank you Yeshua!)

[MatthewG]

Yes, I know that you believe that Jesus spiritually came back, showing that 70AD was the evidence of His return.
No offense, but your thinking is just as much incomplete, as those who are "looking for" Jesus to physically appear, in what they think is the second coming.

But, just so you know, I also believe that Jesus came back/returned spiritually, and in a way that most all DO KNOW about, but don't understand it, because "CHURCH-IANITY" has derailed them from thinking it through.

I trust that you have heard me say that OUR salvation is a two stage process.
So, for a few brief moments, please hear me out, and try to digest it through His Spirit. Please pay particular attention to that which I have hi-lited in red.

Before we can be physically resurrected, we must be spiritually quickened (made alive to God).
Now, I am going to ask you to divorce yourself from your mind, and put on the Mind of Christ who is within you, because what is going to be revealed through me, is not currently in the visible churches at all, that I know of, however I am sure that I am not the only one thinking about it. Here it is:

Many are being led astray by the term "The Second Coming", when in reality THAT coming of Jesus will be "The Third appearance of Jesus".
Let that digest.

1. First appearance in the likeness of our flesh.
Luke 2:4-14. [10] And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
[11] For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
[12] And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.

2. Second appearance in the Spirit, aka the Holy Spirit. John 3:7, John 14:18, Romans 8:8-9, Revelation 3:20.
Hebrews 9[28] So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look ["seek"] for him shall he appear the second time without sin UNTO salvation. See Luke 11:9-13 for understanding.

3. Third appearance in the physical Glory of Flaming fire, in the Glory of His Immortality.
2 Thessalonians 1[7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
[10] When he shall come to be Glorified IN his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Edit: I repeat: John 14:18
[18] I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

I actually believe people who were looking for him on that day at the very last hour he returned physically. Not simply spiritually.

however many people already have their believes and what they will believe.

It doesn’t matter to me nor is it a salvation issue as far as I can tell.

 

[Lambano]

I have told you already. It seems I have to keep repeating myself.


“Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:14-15‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Okay, we agree it's punitive and unpleasant.

Next logical question: Is this unpleasant existence eternal?

Again, we're just working through the implications.

 

[MatthewG]

Everyone has to live their life subjectively.

To their own believes of whatever it is you do believe.

Believing me won’t make a difference, but believing on God who sent Jesus and knowing them both does make a difference.

Thus despite our efforts to try to talk and see which either viewpoint is, when it comes to the end of the spectrum and leaving this life we don’t know what heaven will look like, we don’t know what it will be like being with God, we don’t know what are our spiritual bodies are gonna “feel” like.

We only have slivers of hints of points and views through out the Bible.

 

[MatthewG]

Okay, we agree it's punitive and unpleasant.

Next logical question: Is this unpleasant existence eternal?

Again, we're just working through the implications.

I don’t know, but the Lake of fire implication stated people only have a part in it. The corrupted spiritual body will be given by God himself but surely they will be pleased with it. If God only gives good things.

You aren’t even answering my questions, at the point. So why do you care?

 

[Lambano]

So why do you care?

Maybe I like you.

 

[MatthewG]

Okay,

Like I stated I don’t know what the end is going to look like and from this point it is all conjecture from what you have come across in the Bible.

The only disappointing that that saddens me is people are unable to fathom God getting what he wants and desires without having to force anyone to accepting his son and confessing his name.

Rather amazing… how human beings limit God like he got his hands tied behind his back because of human free-will.

 

[Lambano]

The only disappointing that that saddens me is people are unable to fathom God getting what he wants and desires without having to force anyone to accepting his son and confessing his name.

Rather amazing… how human beings limit God like he got his hands tied behind his back because of human free-will.

Again, God is sovereign, and any limitations God has are self-imposed.

 

[MatthewG]

Did you know no where in the original Greek the word sovereign is not in the Bible at all?

now if you wanna go down that road,

Will you answer this question?

Do you believe that all people will eventually confess Jesus is the Lord, be it in the heavens, the earth, and under the earth?

 

[MatthewG]

“Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[MatthewG]

Also written in another place


“For it is written: “As I live, says the Lord, Every knee shall bow to Me, And every tongue shall confess to God.” So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:11-13‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[MatthewG]

How can they do that but by their free will? @Lambano? God doesn’t seem to close the city gates off to those outside perhaps the spirit continues to call them?

Isaiah 9:7

Of the greatness of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David’s throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. The zeal of the LORD Almighty will accomplish this.


From my understanding the kingdom of God will never end and it will increase forever.

 

[Lambano]

Like I stated I don’t know what the end is going to look like and from this point it is all conjecture from what you have come across in the Bible.

It's fair to say, "I don't know". It's also fair to ask you to conjecture about the logical implications of the premises you've conjectured. See what I mean?

 

[MatthewG]

Im just using the scripture, Lambano. What ever you decide to do with it isn’t between me and you. It is between you and God. That is the point my friend. People can either seek out for truth, or they can sit in what they believe and be comfortable in that. It doesn’t matter to me, I’ll still go out and eat with you and go watch a movie.

God is the one who looks at our hearts and it will always be about faith, (believing and hoping in the things that yet to have come) having love for God first and love for others.

For some reason you don’t wanna answer my question that is fine I have a few other people who do the same thing they don’t wanna answer my question and stay where they are at, it is okay. I love them too.

 

[MatthewG]

We don’t know exactly what the end looks like we only have slivers of evidence.


if you are a person who wants to believe people are annihilated. Go ahead that is between you and God.

If your a person who believes God is literally going to make a new heaven and new earth. By all means Go ahead.

If you believe Jesus is coming back soon… and bring forth judgments on all the nations now today… by all means go ahead.

If you believe that Jesus is the arch-Angel Michael by all means go ahead.

If you believe that you are going to have flesh and blood body when you are resurrected and going to be with God… by all means go ahead.


but there is something tremendously valuable about reading your Bible and taking it for what it says and praying that you are helped by the Holy Spirit as you go along and seek out for answers to truth…

The end of things we don’t know as much about when we die and what the other side looks like.

 

[Lambano]

How can they do that but by their free will? @Lambano? God doesn’t seem to close the city gates off to those outside perhaps the spirit continues to call them?

In the daytime (for there will be no night there) its gates will never be closed. (Revelation 21:25)

Now see, I had to tease that one out of you.

Then, do you see the Outer Darkness as being rehabilitative rather than punitive?

 

[MatthewG]

I can’t answer your question other than this Lambano.

All people are resurrected, there are two places, outside the kingdom and inside the kingdom.

Hope you’re satisfied now. Cause we went over it all.

Take care, until next time.

 

[Earburner]

I am so angry at being deceived and disappointed this time around that I'm seriously considering whether online discussion is worth my time anymore. I now question whether or not my direct answers to questions are helpful, whether my lengthy exegesis of a passage is helpful, or whether my words of encouragement are needed or required. At this point, I wonder if the darkness is beyond human repair. Why can't we be honest and real with each other?

The fact is, all of our Christian discussions are necessary and helpful. The mind of Christ, that is within us, is NOT OUR mind. Unfortunately, when we attempt to convey HIS thoughts with others, our human mind gets in the way.
Each of us, who are born again, are reflecting the light of Christ within us, as the moon reflects the light of the sun.
Did you notice that the moon is DEAD? Of course you did, and that's how we are to be in relation to God.
Rom.6[11] Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin [within you], but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
"The natural man" and our mind is nothing but sin, being exceedingly sinful.

Edit:
1Cor.2[16] For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
Unfortunately, not many are utilizing His mind, but instead have traded it off for the doctrines of men.
Ephesians 4[22] That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
[23] And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
[24] And that ye put on the new man [mind of Christ], which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

 

[Lambano]

if you are a person who wants to believe people are annihilated.

Do you understand WHY people want to believe the wicked are annihilated? Because without the possibility of rehabilitation and readmission to the Kingdom, resurrection to an eternal existence of wailing and gnashing of teeth in the Outer Darkness (or torment in the flames of the eternal garbage dump that is Gehenna) is horrible to contemplate.

 

[MatthewG]

Do you understand WHY people want to believe the wicked are annihilated? Because without the possibility of rehabilitation and readmission to the Kingdom, resurrection to an eternal existence of wailing and gnashing of teeth in the Outer Darkness (or torment in the flames of the eternal garbage dump that is Gehenna) is horrible to contemplate.

Oh... so they can't bear what God will give them for punishment.

Cain said the same thing.

13But Cain said to the LORD, “My punishmentd is greater than I can bear. 14Behold, this day You have driven me from the face of the earth, and from Your face I will be hidden; I will be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”15“Not so!”e replied the LORD. “If anyone slays Cain, then Cain will be avenged sevenfold.” And the LORD placed a mark on Cain, so that no one who found him would kill him.16So Cain went out from the presence of the LORD and settled in the land of Nod,f east of Eden.

 

[Lambano]

Oh... so they can't bear what God will give them for punishment.

Okay, so are you saying that that you believe in resurrection to eternal punishment? That's pretty much in line with what mainstream Christianity teaches, so you're not being too radical there.

(Actually, it's those with empathy and a heart of compassion (such as I see in yourself) who can't bear what God will give them for punishment.)