Why OSAS teaches all sins already forgiven

[Eternally Grateful]

I don’t MAKE the change of Corrupt to un-Corrupted.
That is Gods Works. If you think Gods Works fail...You are welcome to have that conversation with God....maybe give Him some of your logical insight of how God Can improve His Works.



Again, you can have that conversation with God. Give Him some pointers on how His Cleansing of Dead Body’s Fails.

I think of Jesus words to Peter

John 13:10
Jesus said to him, “He who is bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you.”

we need to wash our feet from time to time. Yet we are completely clean (in Christ)

 

[Taken]

You are not going to heaven because you "believe until you die".

Well...I’m not.
However, UN-COMMITTED, Believers SHALL be saved, IF they Believe on the day they Die.

You only go to heaven because God accepted your faith in Christ, to thereby give you forgiveness for all your sin, and then gave you the new birth.

Tripping up to Heaven, is not the topic.
Receiving Salvation is the topic.

its the BORN AGAIN, who are heading to God

Actually it is THOSE “Born again”...who are forgiven, who are saved, who are already 24-WITH and IN Christ...and the Spirit of God IN and WITH them...they are not “heading to God”....they are already THERE!

Just them.., and that is because they are already become "ONE WITH GOD".. "in Christ".

Absolutely.

AND...there ARE BELIEVERS....NOT YET COMMITTED....on this earth...
And who shall remain on this earth During Gods First two portions of His Great Tribulations and Wrath...(The Seven Seals, The Seven Trumps)....And BECOME “BODILY” killed. Their souls SAVED, risen up to heaven....and bodys...maybe buried....maybe too many and lay around stinking, decaying.....NO matter...God will raise them up (in glory), for Judgement after the 1,000 year reign.

And water baptizm can't do that for you.

Water Baptism was a FORESHADOW....and was, and is for “Satisfying the EYES of men, who can not BELIEVE without SEEING”....
Remember...John Baptizing Jesus?
John somewhat bewildered....?
Remember the Crowd....? Oh, oh, “LOOK”, it’s true...we “SAW” the sign of a dove landing on Jesus’ shoulder.

Where was the “WATER”....for the malefactor hanging next to Jesus?
Absent. Not necessary.
What did that malefactor DO, that Gained him the response of Jesus to say, that malefactor WOULD BE in Paradise?
1) called on the Lord.....which is acknowledgment of he believed Jesus IS the Lord.
2) Verified he believed Jesus had done NO wrongs.
3) Acknowledged Jesus’ Kingdom.
4) Gave Jesus knowledge of a plea, IF Jesus would find him worthy to Remember him.

A mans dying breath WAS...
Calling out to the Lord, Declaring his Belief in the Lord, Desiring to be Remember by the Lord....AND? Done deal. Satisfactory to Lord, to give that man assurance he would be WITH the Lord in Paradise.

 

[Taken]

this post makes no sense at all. what are you trying to say

BELIEVE to the DAY you DIE, and you SHALL BE SAVED...ONCE and FOREVER.

Men who are BELIEVING and crucified with Christ Jesus....HAVE DIED IN BELIEF...and Received their Salvation, ONCE and FOREVER.

Men who are BELIEVING and physically DIE ...HAVE DIED IN BELIEF....
And Received their Salvation, ONCE and FOREVER.

SALVATION is GIVEN AFTER a DEATH... get it?

Men do not come back to Life...and say...uh...ya uh, about the Salvation Gift thingy God....eh...changed my mind....Take your gift back from me.

 

[Alfredthefifth]

There is a twist that keeps showing up here

I admit that I'm a sinner klinging to God's incredible love so that living to reflect God's incredible love I may sin less.

The twist is

That I enjoy sin because otherwise I would sinless.

God's love in my life is a medicine that gives some relief against my sinfull nature.

It is not a cure all sin medicine. Those that teach that it is a cure all. I pray I never find out what sins these sinless Christians are hiding, God knows and that is good enough for me. If I did know I may gloat and that is not good for my soul!

But unfortunately I have learned in journey how many SINLESS Christians are more desperate sinners than I am on my worst day. That weighs on me. But by claiming sinlessness the smallest least imaginable sin is magnified, not in my eyes but in the eyes of God.

The eyes of God see all sin!

I don't need to say anything but beware
(what has been twisted to claim sinless)

of the sinless man

Alfredthefifth

 

[Taken]

If you deny that God only accepts faith, as you doing ?????????, then you are in contradiction against the Gospel that teaches that faith alone is counted as righteousness. "justification by faith".

There is NO OTHER WAY to be accepted by God, then for you to BELIEVE.
God requires this so that by this Faith, God gives you Salvation, that is the GIFT Of God that is given to all who believe.

I have already accepted Gods Gift of salvation...
No I did not receive that Gift FOR Believing.
Yes I did receive that Gift FOR CONFESSING to the Lord, MY Believing.

It’s like a LOAN, the bank says they WILL Give you...
Will they give it to YOU, without YOUR Agreement? No.
What is the Agreement...? First that you will TAKE what they offer, and Secondly you will Agree to their Terms of Repayment.

God makes the Offering.
Men can Agee to the Terms OR NOT.

 

[Taken]

There is a twist that keeps showing up here

I admit that I'm a sinner klinging to God's incredible love so that living to reflect God's incredible love I may sin less.

The twist is
That I enjoy sin because otherwise I would sinless.

Listen CAREFULLY...WHO is ACTUALLY making the CLAIMS...
(Sinless? license to sin?...IT IS THE ACCUSER...IT IS NOT the person who is CLAIMING he is Converted, forgiven, saved, born again, sins NO MORE.)

Don’t know about YOU, however what people gossip about me, DECLARE FOR ME, has Nothing whatsoever to do with me. That is ON THEM. THEY like every person is Accountable for their own words)

How CAN A man who was born in Sin, committed Sin, Been Forgiven his Sin..........BE SINLESS? That is LOGICALLY erroneous. That is SPIRITUALLY erroneous.
* SINLESS means NEVER HAVING HAD sin!

*WHERE DOES a mans FORGIVEN SIN......GO? For other men to MAKE ridiculous accusations of “sinless”...”for other men”?

A mans FORGIVEN SIN......DOESN”T GO ANYWHERE...it’s STILL in his BODY!!...

SEE how that false claim one man makes for an other...IS ridiculous?

WHAT IN Fact occurs...IS: a forgiven mans SIN is COVERED.
The Spirit of God, which IS LIGHT, enters that man, AND...hummm.
THE Forgiven SIN IN that man (which IS Darkness) IS: overcome BY Gods LIGHT...
* Have you ever entered a DARK ROOM, turned on the LIGHT, and said...GEEZE...what a fail....all I can see IS “Darkness”? Ridiculous!

The eyes of God see all sin!

Half true. Sin that the LIGHT OF GOD COVERS, IS SIN that is OVERCOME by His Light....that God NEITHER SEES or REMEMBERS.

I don't need to say anything but beware
(what has been twisted to claim sinless)

Again, I caution you, about making claims for others, THEY DO NOT MAKE for themselves.

Jesus OVERCAME the World with HIS LIGHT. Any man who desires His LIGHT Overcomes their internal Sin.... IS an Agreement MADE between that one man and the Lord God.

*** Well aware MEN like the Darkness OF SIN, like to remember it, talk about it, accuse others, tempt others to share in their own darkness of sin.

Just saying...

 

[Eternally Grateful]

BELIEVE to the DAY you DIE, and you SHALL BE SAVED...ONCE and FOREVER.

if this must be true, we have not been saved period. we are still in the process of trying to save ourselves.

Men who are BELIEVING and crucified with Christ Jesus....HAVE DIED IN BELIEF...and Received their Salvation, ONCE and FOREVER.

Men who are BELIEVING and physically DIE ...HAVE DIED IN BELIEF....
And Received their Salvation, ONCE and FOREVER.

SALVATION is GIVEN AFTER a DEATH... get it?

Men do not come back to Life...and say...uh...ya uh, about the Salvation Gift thingy God....eh...changed my mind....Take your gift back from me.

No one says take your gift back, unless the person who gave the gift proves to be untrustworthy.

Since God will never fail us. no one would ever say, take your gift back. Unless they never recieved it to begin with.

 

[Taken]

I think of Jesus words to Peter

John 13:10
Jesus said to him, “He who is bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you.”

we need to wash our feet from time to time. Yet we are completely clean (in Christ)

The washing of ones feet is a parallel to WALKING with Christ.
This is a Corrupt world. Expect to walk where Wickedness and Evil dwells. Wash that off you... Same concept, to brush that dirt off your clothing. Wash and Brush that off you, that as you continue your WALKING with Christ....you are not cluttered with, sprinkled with,
the filth OF World ON you.


Already had Jesus’ BLOOD BATH.

 

[Wrangler]

If you deny that God only accepts faith, as you doing ?????????, then you are in contradiction against the Gospel that teaches that faith alone is counted as righteousness. "justification by faith".

Faith and belief are not the same. Faith has action. The gates of heaven will not be overcome by those who talk the talk but do not walk the walk.

Internal Work and external works are not the same. The Bible says one will not get saved by their own (external) works. Agreed. However, it takes internal work, a humbling transformation to repent, to turn to God and take your fate from your hands and put it into his hands, to surrender, to stop fighting, to submit to the lordship of Jesus Christ.

I know devout Christ followers sin, on occasion. But this is not their normal practice. They are sensitive to the convictions by the Holy Spirit and humbly admit their missteps, atone and glorify God in the process. OSAS tend to self-righteousness, I'm afraid, which does not reflect God's glory or grace but something fleshy, ego.

 

[Taken]

if this must be true, we have not been saved period. we are still in the process of trying to save ourselves.

No one says take your gift back, unless the person who gave the gift proves to be untrustworthy.

Since God will never fail us. no one would ever say, take your gift back. Unless they never recieved it to begin with.

OH, but some do.
Yes, some DO say, oh, I believed, I was sav-ED, changed my mind, Don’t believe, and threw Gods Gift of Salvation back in His Face!
(Almost a direct quote I’ve read on this forum).

Many people BELIEVE in their MIND...”heard the word of God”...figured in their MIND...”makes logical sense”....Ran to the altar made their Logically concluded confession....Made their arrangements to be Water Baptized...wait the days for the water baptism ritual....show up, are dipped in water...given a man-made Certificate....AND...?

Are congratulated by the congregation. Tell their friends...’I’m SAVED’.
And, so some years pass. They hang with crowds who DO NOT BELIEVE. Discussions, humm...uh, what “THEY” say makes “sense to the mans MIND”....Humm...the man CHANGES HIS MIND...Believes NO MORE....and WHAT?

What does that man NOW Declare? He was Baptized...He USED to be SAV-ED, and now he is Not....

Really? The Holy Spirit of God, Baptizes a man WHO calls on His Name and GIVES Him a ....... Carnal Minded Confession OF BELIEF?

Uh no. God Gives His Holy Spirit Baptism to a man WHO calls on the Lord and such man gives His True HEARTFUL confession of Belief!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The washing of ones feet is a parallel to WALKING with Christ.
This is a Corrupt world. Expect to walk where Wickedness and Evil dwells. Wash that off you... Same concept, to brush that dirt off your clothing. Wash and Brush that off you, that as you continue your WALKING with Christ....you are not cluttered with, sprinkled with,
the filth OF World ON you.


Already had Jesus BLOOD BATH.

I see it differently

We are clean by the word. But we get dirty sometimes. and we need to wash up. That's the sanctification process A new believer probably does not even know every possible sin he could commit.. As he grows. He starts to learn his sin habit and issues. And part of sanctification is learning to change those habits.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

OH, but some do.
Yes, some DO say, oh, I believed, I was sav-ED, changed my mind, Don’t believe, and threw Gods Gift of Salvation back in His Face!
(Almost a direct quote I’ve read on this forum).

Many people BELIEVE in their MIND...”heard the word of God”...figured in their MIND...”makes logical sense”....Ran to the altar made their Logically concluded confession....Made their arrangements to be Water Baptized...wait the days for the water baptism ritual....show up, are dipped in water...given a man-made Certificate....AND...?

Are congratulated by the congregation. Tell their friends...’I’m SAVED’.
And, so some years pass. They hang with crowds who DO NOT BELIEVE. Discussions, humm...uh, what “THEY” say makes “sense to the mans MIND”....Humm...the man CHANGES HIS MIND...Believes NO MORE....and WHAT?

What does that man NOW Declare? He was Baptized...He USED to be SAV-ED, and now he is Not....

Really? The Holy Spirit of God, Baptizes a man WHO calls on His Name and GIVES Him a ....... Carnal Minded Confession OF BELIEF?

Uh no. God Gives His Holy Spirit Baptism to a man WHO calls on the Lord and such man gives His True HEARTFUL confession of Belief!

I know they do

But as John said, they (unbelievers) were never of us, if they had been of us they never would have left. but they left to expose the fact they never were of us (were never true believers)

 

[Taken]

I know devout Christ followers sin, on occasion.

You know devout Christ followers sin, on occasion.....SURE they do.

We learned that possibility in Scripture...

Disciples of Jesus, were “followers”, and we plainly seen, they questioned, murmured amongst themselves, doubted, denied....

Ignoring “devout followers”....what about “the Converted” ?

Do you know men “Converted IN Christ”...who sin...ever?

 

[Taken]

I see it differently

We are clean by the word. But we get dirty sometimes. and we need to wash up. That's the sanctification process A new believer probably does not even know every possible sin he could commit.. As he grows. He starts to learn his sin habit and issues. And part of sanctification is learning to change those habits.

I see it differently.
You identify a “new believer”, seemingly unaware of possible sins.

You seem to have a “LIST” of sins...at some given point this “new believers” (or really ANY believer), could commit.....

AND? Why is that an issue?
Being a BELIEVER, is not saved. Certainly there is expectation they will falter, stumble, EVEN might Fall away from Believing.

What does that have to do with one who had CONFESSED to the Lord, their Belief?

 

[ScottA]

Jesus defined the time from one being "saved" to the time of natural death of the flesh body, as a time of believing faith...with benefits.

He defined it in this way:

“Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing. 47 Assuredly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all his goods. 48 But if that evil servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’ 49 and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, 50 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, 51 and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." Matthew 45:45-51
​

In other words, once "saved", if a person does not believe that their debt has been fully paid for all eternity and that the promise of Christ to come "quickly" (Revelation 22:20) ("shortly take place" Revelation 1:1) is not true, but rather that they must continue to live in fear and endure for a time of "delaying"...then that is all the faith they have, and that is what they get, the consequence of which is that they are "cut" out of the full effects of salvation until the end of their natural body, rather than it beginning at the birth of their new spirit born of God. Thus the waiting, thus the weeping and gnash of teeth, thus loosing the fulness of salvation for a time...and the benefits.

 

[Taken]

if this must be true, we have not been saved period. we are still in the process of trying to save ourselves.

No one says take your gift back, unless the person who gave the gift proves to be untrustworthy.

Since God will never fail us. no one would ever say, take your gift back. Unless they never recieved it to begin with.

Well, I do not say Gods Gift of Salvation is EVER given back or taken back....but others have said that IS possible...That was their “reasoning” of HOW a man Loses his salvation. Not my agreement.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I see it differently.
You identify a “new believer”, seemingly unaware of possible sins.

You seem to have a “LIST” of sins...at some given point this “new believers” (or really ANY believer), could commit.....

AND? Why is that an issue?
Being a BELIEVER, is not saved. Certainly there is expectation they will falter, stumble, EVEN might Fall away from Believing.

What does that have to do with one who had CONFESSED to the Lord, their Belief?

So if a person repents. and confesses the lord.

But a week later, chooses not to serve a neighbor because they are too tired

were they saved when they became as the tax collector and fell on their knees calling out..

Or are they not saved. because they still have not learned completely how to Love as Jesus loved?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

I know devout Christ followers sin, on occasion.

“devout” followers sin?

“…when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right… walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die. None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live.” (Ezekiel 33:14-16)

So God just says crazy things like this because no one can ever stop sinning?

 

[Taken]

BELIEVE to the day you die, You shall be save then.

if this must be true, we have not been saved period. we are still in the process of trying to save ourselves.

Oh YIPES...
IN one fell swoop, you just completely negated the validity of being Crucified DEAD...with Christ Jesus.

Utterly and completely disagree with you.
I spend NOT ONE moment tying to save myself.
I am already Sav-ED according to Gods order, will and way.

 

[Taken]

So if a person repents. and confesses the lord.

But a week later, chooses not to serve a neighbor because they are too tired

Whoah... What does my neighbor OR ANY other man have to do with,
The Lord God and Me, establishing a ONCE and Forever Relationship?