The Divine Plan of the Ages by Charles T Russell - Jehovah's Witnesses

[face2face]

Okay, thanks!

Israel has preceded us. Then we who are grafted in "each one in his own order" 1 Corinthians 15:23. As for the modern "state" of Israel, it is only a redeclaration ex post facto declaring the time of the end. "Then comes the end."

Yes, grafted into their Hope & Promises. this thread is not discussing spiritual Israel only the future of natural Israel under the leadership of Jesus Christ. Matthew 19:28

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

This is a joke...right? We expect progressive revelation of truth like the first Christians received. Even as Jesus left, the apostles showed that they did not fully understand about the nature of the Kingdom. Jesus told them to wait for the holy spirit....and even then they did not receive the whole story all at once.They spoke as if the coming of the Kingdom was imminent and yet here we are 2000 years later, still waiting for it to fulfill God's promises (Matthew 6:9-10)

When Jesus spoke about the appointment of his "faithful and discreet slave" in these last days, he said that his "slave" would "feed" his household of fellow slaves, their "food at the proper time" (Matthew 24:45)....that means, what Christ's disciples need to know, would be provided, when they needed to know it.
'The light on the path gets brighter as day dawns'....(Proverbs 4:18) We have found this to be true.

Natural Israel were abandoned by Jehovah as his people, and a new nation "producing its fruits" would replace them (Matthew 21:42-46).....this was spiritual Israel....."the Israel of God". (Acts 15:14; Galatians 6:16) God's elect were to experience a "new birth" as a "new creation". 'Mortality was to put on immortality'.....creatures of flesh would become creatures of spirit. This is what being "born again" means....a whole new body equipped for life in heaven.

Are you not getting the message that you don't seem to have anything of value to share with anyone. If you did, there would be so many more of you, with the same beliefs, meeting together to edify one another....(Hebrews 10:24-25)...and being seen preaching "in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations", (Matthew 24:14; Matthew 28:19-20) as Jesus commanded.
Jesus had somewhere to send those who responded to his preaching......where can you send people? I keep trying to tell you, but you will not listen.....IDK

Well said

 

[ScottA]

Yes, grafted into their Hope & Promises. this thread is not discussing spiritual Israel only the future of natural Israel under the leadership of Jesus Christ. Matthew 19:28

There was to be no "future" per se for Israel beyond that ("this") generation of Christ 2,000 years ago, as He came but for the house of Israel and "It is finished."

 

[Aunty Jane]

There was to be no "future" per se for Israel beyond that ("this") generation of Christ 2,000 years ago, as He came but for the house of Israel and "It is finished."

I believe this too....Literal Israel's existence served a purpose and when that purpose was fulfilled, (bringing God's Messiah into the world) it fulfilled all the prophesies.....but when they murdered his son, God wiped his hands of those serial covenant breakers and chose for himself a new nation who would willingly obey him from the heart (Acts 15:14)....his commandment written on hearts. This is the "Israel of God" (Galatians 6:16) made up of both Jewish and Gentile Christians. God has long abandoned fleshly Israel as his people. (Matthew 23:37-39)

So much was "finished" when Christ gave up his life. The successful redemption of mankind, and the implementing of a new covenant foretold by Jeremiah. (Jeremiah 31:31-35) What also took place was the "heel" wound delivered to the seed of God's woman in Genesis 3:15. The fatal "head" wound of the serpent is still to take place.

It's amazing to see prophesy being fulfilled as the Bible describes in advance what was to take place, and how it happened just as God foretold.
This is what makes Daniel's prophesies so real, as we are living in the time of their fulfillment....we are experiencing "the time of the end" and witnessing history told in advance.....made all the more amazing when we see that Daniel wrote his prophesies 500 years before Christ walked the earth. It shows how much we can trust the Bible....

 

[face2face]

There was to be no "future" per se for Israel beyond that ("this") generation of Christ 2,000 years ago, as He came but for the house of Israel and "It is finished."

Show me your evidence.

 

[face2face]

God has long abandoned fleshly Israel as his people. (Matthew 23:37-39)

So from all that noise you base your understanding on one verse in Matthew 23:37-39

Matthew 23:38 Look, your house is left to you desolate! 23:39 For I tell you, you will not see me from now until you say, ‘Blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord!’

Wow, your ignorance Jane is overwhelming; talk about cherry picking the red at the expense of the blue text! - that you can twist your false doctrine into the Lord's word's is on your head!

You think this passage is God giving them an irrevocable divorce? And you call yourselves Jehovah's Witnesses? How can you witness Him if you haven't a clue about Him?

Ezekiel 21:26 this is what the sovereign Lord says: Tear off the turban, take off the crown! Things must change! Exalt the lowly, bring down the proud! It will come to an end when the one arrives to whom I have assigned judgment.

You ignore the conditional statement of the Lord's... "you will not see me from now until you say, ‘Blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord!". as per Ezekiel 21:27

Natural Israel will be given to the Lord! You know...King...Kingdom....Subjects etc.

To be cont...

 

[Enoch111]

Now I appreciate many Christian's believe in Heaven going, which is nowhere taught in the Bible as a hope for the saved, and while the JW's believe that in part, (it seems) many Christians hold to this wrong doctrine.

So it looks like you are as far from Gospel truth as the JWs. So the first order of business is for your to get back on track. Imagine, countless millions of Christians hold (or have held) to a belief which is "nowhere taught in the Bible"! Can you see the absurdity of that statement? Only the cults promote Soul Sleep. Christians go immediately to Heaven to be with the Lord.

 

[face2face]

Matthew 23:38 is based on Jeremiah 3:8 in which God gives Israel a bill of divorcement saying:

Jeremiah 3:8 She also saw that I gave wayward Israel her divorce papers and sent her away because of her adulterous worship of other gods

BUT

Jeremiah 3:12 “Go and shout this message to my people in the countries in the north. Tell them, ‘Come back to me, wayward Israel,’ says the Lord.

‘I will not continue to look on you with displeasure. For I am merciful,’ says the Lord. ‘I will not be angry with you forever.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

God has not cast away his people Romans 11:1

The house of Israel will one day say and I hope you are there to witness it, "Blessed is he that comes in the name of the LORD" Matthew 23:39

Since "blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in." as per Romans 11:25, Isaiah 59:20-21; Hebrews 8:8; Jeremiah 31:31-34

Hardening has come UNTIL the fullness of the Gentiles has come!

You have the arrogance (correction: ignorance) Paul warned of - you have that bad!

The weight of evidence is on you!

 

[face2face]

So it looks like you are as far from Gospel truth as the JWs. So the first order of business is for your to get back on track. Imagine, countless millions of Christians hold (or have held) to a belief which is "nowhere taught in the Bible"! Can you see the absurdity of that statement? Only the cults promote Soul Sleep. Christians go immediately to Heaven to be with the Lord.

Yeah yeah good luck with proving that one!

 

[ScottA]

Show me your evidence.

I did.

How is it that you do not recognize that I was quoting the scriptures?

 

[face2face]

I did.

How is it that you do not recognize that I was quoting the scriptures?

Nope.
Try speaking to those Scriptures that apply to the discussion at hand.
Post #46 & #48 will help you...plenty of relevant text there for you to work with.

 

[face2face]

Well said

Not really...read #46 & #48 for a right understanding of Jane's misquoted passages.

 

[face2face]

By Charles T Russell

Start quote:

To this Paul's words agree (Romans 11:25,26)--"Blindness in part is happened to Israel until the fulness of the Gentiles [the elect company, the bride of Christ] be come in; and so all Israel shall be saved," or brought back from their cast-off condition; for "God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew." (Romans 11:2) They were cast off from his favor while the bride of Christ was being selected, but will be reinstated when that work is accomplished. (Romans 11:28-33) The prophets are full of statements of how God will plant them again, and they shall be no more plucked up. "Thus saith the Lord, the God of Israel,...I will set mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land; and I will build them and not pull them down, and I will plant them and not pluck them up. And I will give them an heart to know me, that I am the Lord; and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, for they shall return unto me with their whole heart." (Jeremiah 24:5-7; Jeremiah 31:28; Jeremiah 32:40-42; Jeremiah 33:6-16) These cannot merely refer to restorations from former captivities in Babylon, Syria, etc., for they have since been plucked up. Furthermore, the Lord says, "In those days, they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge, but every one [who dies] shall die for his own iniquity." (Jeremiah 31:29,30)

End quote

Do you know why this excites me?

Firstly, it shows that Biblical truth can be discovered if you are willing to piece together the relevant Scripture.
Secondly, it shows that if the JW's once believed this truth, it "may" be possible for them to do so at a future time.
Thirdly, It carries a warning to Christians that a work is required at the physcial return of the Lord which is spoken of in Jeremiah 3

I (God) will give you (Israel) leaders (hopefully us!) who will be faithful to me. They will lead you with knowledge and insight. In those days, your population will greatly increase in the land. At that time,” says the Lord, “people will no longer talk about having the ark that contains the Lord’s covenant with us. They will not call it to mind, remember it, or miss it. No, that will not be done any more! At that time the city of Jerusalem will be called the Lord’s throne. All nations will gather there in Jerusalem to honor the Lord’s name. Jeremiah 3:13-17

@Aunty Jane Why does the prophet say that natural Israel will no longer talk about the ark of the Covenant? They wont even bring it to mind? Not even remember it, or miss it?

Why Jane?

 

[face2face]

What also took place was the "heel" wound delivered to the seed of God's woman in Genesis 3:15. The fatal "head" wound of the serpent is still to take place.

Deep breath!

Can you think of a teaching of the Lord's which speaks to his death and the death of a serpent?

 

[face2face]

This is what makes Daniel's prophesies so real, as we are living in the time of their fulfillment....we are experiencing "the time of the end" and witnessing history told in advance.....made all the more amazing when we see that Daniel wrote his prophesies 500 years before Christ walked the earth. It shows how much we can trust the Bible....

Now this is true!
We wait for the stone cut without hands to smash the feet of the image!

Daniel 2:34



The stone cut without hands must need return to start the grinding process!

"Which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and day, and break them to pieces" Compare with the prophetic statements of 2 Samuel 22:43 & Psalms 18:42 which speaks to the future work of Christ in subduing the nations from Jerusalem.

 

[face2face]

Deep breath!

Can you think of a teaching of the Lord's which speaks to his death and the death of a serpent?

Go on @Aunty Jane ....you wont be disappointed!

 

[Aunty Jane]

You're baiting....not interested. Go and annoy someone else...

 

[ScottA]

Nope.
Try speaking to those Scriptures that apply to the discussion at hand.
Post #46 & #48 will help you...plenty of relevant text there for you to work with.

That's a dodge...and you never answered my question.

 

[face2face]

That's a dodge...and you never answered my question.

No dodge!
You said you posted relevant Scriptural text but if you are unable to speak to the Scriptures in #46 & #48 what is there to discuss? You have no position.

 

[face2face]

You're baiting....not interested. Go and annoy someone else...

Nothing here also! #46 & #48 so convincing! More to come Jane!