The Problems of Perpetual Belief Alone Salvation-ism.

[Charlie24]

Well, then you are only laughing at yourself. For you are the one who said they are a sinner (present tense) saved by God’s grace and then you later started to change the subject to make it appear like you are for holy living (Which makes you double minded). You are either for holy living or you are not really for that. I don’t believe you are for the true holy living as taught by the Bible because you said you are a sinner (present tense) saved by God’s grace. Meaning, you believe you can sin and still be saved.

BH, you are the arguing-est rascal I have ever encountered. I can't communicate with you.

I choose faith only and my works (which are not mine) will follow.

The works I do are planned for me, especially for me, all I do is walk through that door when He opens it.

I spend most of my Christian life watching closely for that open door!

In the mean time, what I do is what I know is right according to scripture.

I don't plan any works, I don't consider any works that come my way to be mine.

I just keep my eyes peeled, so to speak, for that door He has prepared for me!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I don’t believe in doing works first to be saved so I am not putting any cart before the horse.
You also are not explaining any of the verses I bring forth that refutes your belief here, either. Until you do, you just have empty words of your own opinion. You need to explain the verses I have brought forth that demolishes your belief ten times over.

dude,

YOU WILL NEVER BE SAVED BY YOUR WORKS

There is no different than saying works must precede, or if they must follow. Both arguments claim unless you work YOU WILL NOT BE SAVED

Thats the problem with flawed doctrines. They come back to bite you. You may be able to convince yourself your right. but to those who are really seeking. Your words contradict themselves..

 

[mailmandan]

Look, friend. The Bible’s last chapter even ends with it saying that blessed are they that do his commandments for they have right to the tree of life. It’s not those who believed on the finished work of the cross and who did not emphasize obedience will have right to the tree of life. Please read Revelation 22:14-15 in the KJB.

You are more focused on obedience/works as the basis or means by which we receive eternal life than you are on the finished work of Christ. In regards to Revelation 22:14-15, multiple other translations (ASV, AMP, CEV, ESV, HCSB, NASB, NIV etc..) read, "Blessed are those who wash their robes," which symbolizes those who have been forgiven of their sins through the blood of the Lamb. (Romans 3:24-26) Also see Revelation 7:14.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You are more focused on obedience/works as the basis or means by which we receive eternal life than you are on the finished work of Christ. In regards to Revelation 22:14-15, multiple other translations (ASV, AMP, CEV, ESV, HCSB, NASB, NIV etc..) read, "Blessed are those who wash their robes," which symbolizes those who have been forgiven of their sins through the blood of the Lamb. (Romans 3:24-26) Also see Revelation 7:14.

I am reminded of pauls words

are you so FOOLISH having begun in the spirit (faith) are you now being perfected in the flesh (works)

 

[Rudometkin]

The Problems of Perpetual Belief Alone Salvation-ism.

Many Christians today believe in in Perpetual Belief Alone Salvation-ism. They think that all you need is a belief alone in Jesus as the Savior and your good to go to enter Heaven.

Here's the way I see it:

Problem #1. - It ignores tons of warnings given to us on sin, and being fruitful in the Bible.

This is not a problem. Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationism answers that our sin is not the end of our Salvation and our fruitfulness is not the cause of our Salvation. How can it ignore what it answers?

Problem #2. - It teaches that obedience to enter God's Kingdom is bad.

Man entering God's Kingdom by his own obedience reduces Christ as ineffective. So now you have a problem. The Bible says Christ is effective and you are arguing against it.

Problem #3. - There is no consistent standard of morality.

God is always the consistent standard of morality so this isn't a problem.

Problem #4. - It's a purely man made doctrine that attempts to call those who do good as bad, and those who do bad as being good.

This is unfounded. I will match your style: Problem #4 is false and therefore not a real problem.

Problem #5. - Believing a set of facts alone while persisting to disobey God does not really change you.

Wrong. Belief after a lack of belief is really change.

Problem #6. - Jesus came to save us from our sins, and not to just pay the penalty for our sin.

This agrees with Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationism.

Problem #7. - It's the wide gate path (“Protestantism / Belief Alone-ism” is the second largest denomination in the world, with 800 million to 1 billion adherents).

Of course you cannot absolutely prove these numbers. Here are more numbers which refute you. Compared to 8 billion people on the planet, 1 billion is a small gate path.

Problem #8. - It is a lack of faith in what God's Word says involving God's instructions for our life.

How? The Bible says we are not saved by instructions. The law is the schoolmaster which leads to Christ. Christ saves.

Problem #9. - It's a religion of self or with one being their own god vs. making God (Jesus) the Lord of their life.

Many of your problems are sloppy. Especially this one. Perpetual Belief Alone Salvation-ism does not mean someone will not make Jesus the Lord of their life. You are using the logical fallacy of "begging the question"; assuming the worst about what you are attacking.

Believing your works get you to God's Kingdom shows you put your works above Christ's. That is religion of self. Problem #9 is your problem.

Problem #10. - The Bible actually warns against those who believe this way.

No it does not. But if you insist, then where does it say that? It says Salvation is by faith and not of works.

Problem #11. - It glorifies sin and darkness.

No it does not. It says Christ conquered sin and darkness, and it says sin and darkness have no power to take your Salvation away.

Problem #12. - It ignores the true purpose of grace. For Titus 2:11-12 says God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world. Also, see Ephesians 5:25-27.

These Scriptures are not concerned with Salvation, so they cannot refute Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationism, which is concerned with Salvation.

 

[mailmandan]

Yes, I am hung up on the truth that Paul talked about Initial Salvation because that is what Paul was talking about in context. Nowhere will you see Paul condemning others for applying Sanctification or holy living according to the Laws of Christ in the NT as being condemned. You won’t find such words by the apostle Paul. In fact, Paul says Sanctification of the Spirit is a part of our salvation in 2 Thessalonians 2:13 (also see Romans 8:13). That’s why your belief is utter nonsense and entirely made up.

You are hung up on a lie. From beginning to end salvation is through faith and is not by works. (Ephesians 2:8; 1 Peter 1:9) Paul does not turn sanctification or holy living into "type 2 works salvation" as you do.

In 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Paul says - But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. When we are justified, we are also sanctified - "set apart/made holy" before God positionally in Christ. (1 Corinthians 6:11) Hence, the salvation. This is not about "type 2 works salvation" by maintaining and earning our salvation through holy living - "back door works salvation."

In regards to Romans 8:13, how about a little context. Romans 8:8 - So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Typical straw man argument.

It's not about how many murders, but the condition of your heart.

Now how about a little context. 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. 11 For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, 12 not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother’s righteous. 13 Do not marvel, my brethren, if the world hates you. 14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death. 15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

Love for the brethren is the demonstrative evidence that we are born of God. Not only physically murdering your brother, but also hating your brother is the demonstrative evidence of being a child of the devil/of the wicked one and classifies you as a murderer.

Elsewhere in 1 John 4:7-8, we read - Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You are hung up on the word "Initially" and also on "type 2 works salvation." I seriously doubt there is anything that I or anyone else can say that will cause you to repent (change your mind) and place your faith in Jesus Christ ALONE (from start to finish) for salvation. (Ephesians 2:8; 1 Peter 1:9) You are just too fixated on 'back door works salvation.' Your must do something later in order to be saved by faith after being saved by faith alone beforehand argument is an oxymoron. God imputes righteousness APART FROM WORKS. (Romans 4:2-6)

Why would I deny the Bible to follow Protestant lies? It makes no sense. But you can keep speaking phrases and terms not found in the Bible if that makes you feel better. Initial Salvation is a biblical fact accepted by most Christians unless you are a Universalist (i.e. that both the righteous and the wicked are all saved). Again, all you or anyone has to do is read the chapters that you quote and you can see that it is talking about INITIAL Salvation. Romans 4:9-12 is the perfect explanation for this. Abraham believed God before he was circumcised (a work). But you cannot see the forest from the trees.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You are hung up on a lie. From beginning to end salvation is through faith and is not by works. (Ephesians 2:8; 1 Peter 1:9) Paul does not turn sanctification or holy living into "type 2 works salvation" as you do.

In 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Paul says - But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. When we are justified, we are also sanctified - "set apart/made holy" before God positionally in Christ. (1 Corinthians 6:11) Hence, the salvation. This is not about "type 2 works salvation" by maintaining and earning our salvation through holy living - "back door works salvation."

In regards to Romans 8:13, how about a little context. Romans 8:8 - So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

You are the only Christian I have ran into who uses the term Type 2 Works Salvation. So it’s most likely your own invented term of how you seek to distort the Bible, and make it look like your an authority (When you are not). God’s Word is the authority and not your invented terms.

When you read 2 Thessalonians 2:13: You don’t resort to Scripture but you resort to Theological terms by Theologians. I know. I read a little of Systematic Theology by Wayne Grudem and I heard Protestants say this garbage more times than I care to count. So the problem is that you are quoting them and you are not quoting solely the Bible. You are using their terms or words. You rely on their understanding and you are not relying on God and His Word for the understanding alone. For example: The term they describe like Justification is not entirely accurate. Justified can refer to both works and faith (James 2:24) (Romans 5:1). They also falsely say Justification is the removal of the penalty of sin and Sanctification does not involve the removal of the penalty of sin. Yet, we know that Hebrews 12:14 says that we are to follow after holiness without which no man shall see the Lord. We know that Romans 8:13 says that if you live after the flesh (sin), you will die, but if you put to death the misdeeds of the body (sin) by the Spirit, you will live. It’s like you cannot see verses like Romans 8:13 and or Hebrews 12:14. Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him (Hebrews 5:9). Acts of the Apostles 3:23 says that if any man does not hear that prophet (i.e. Jesus), he will be destroyed. So we have to obey Jesus and not just believe in Him if we want to be saved. But your Protestant brain washing will not allow you to believe many verses in the Bible.

 

[mailmandan]

Why would I deny the Bible to follow Protestant lies? It makes no sense. But you can keep speaking phrases and terms not found in the Bible if that makes you feel better. Initial Salvation is a biblical fact accepted by most Christians unless you are a Universalist (i.e. that both the righteous and the wicked are all saved). Again, all you or anyone has to do is read the chapters that you quote and you can see that it is talking about INITIAL Salvation. Romans 4:9-12 is the perfect explanation for this. Abraham believed God before he was circumcised (a work). But you cannot see the forest from the trees.

Your "initial" salvation nonsense culminates in "type 2 works salvation" which is not Biblical. So believing is a work? Faith is a work? Everything is a work according to your erroneous theology. You might as well not even call faith faith and works works. You basically wrap both faith and works up in a package and simply stamp "faith" on the package making no distinction between faith and works. Common error by works-salvationists. I see the forest from the trees just fine. It's you who needs new bifocals.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Do you hate it?

It is supposed to be in your heart and mind:

“This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them” (Hebrews 10:16)

You are supposed to establish the law:

“Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.” (Romans 3:31)

I never hate the Law....it’s like having a “ how to live a life that will be blessed by God” Manual .....
I love the Law —— what I Hate is the MISUSE of the Law.....as if “ keeping it” was God’s Plan for Salvation....it ain’t.

The Laws was given to make us “SHUT UP” in regard to keeping it in order to get our Justification before God....The Law was given to show us the extent and the seriousness of our Sins....It was given to “take us by the hand” and lead us to our Savior.....Too many people have never learned how to “ Shut- Up”.....

 

[Bible Highlighter]

BELIEVE to get and stay Saved....The “Good Works” Will Follow naturally because God is working within you and transforming you into the Image Of His Son.......these good Works May take time to manifest themselves....they may not even be visible to the self- Righteous and self- appointed “Fruit Inspectors” like this Clod in the video....

While good works can sometimes follow naturally, good works don't always follow naturally.
It's why Paul says we have to be careful to maintain good works in Titus 3:8.
If good works always followed naturally then he would have never said what he did in Titus 3:8.
But I am sure you will just ignore this verse.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I never hate the Law....it’s like having a “ how to live a life that will be blessed by God” Manual .....
I love the Law —— what I Hate is the MISUSE of the Law.....as if “ keeping it” was God’s Plan for Salvation....it ain’t.

So what do you make of Luke 10:25-28?

The Laws was given to make us “SHUT UP” in regard to keeping it in order to get our Justification before God....The Law was given to show us the extent and the seriousness of our Sins....It was given to “take us by the hand” and lead us to our Savior.....Too many people have never learned how to “ Shut- Up”.....

No doubt you get this misunderstanding from a misreading of Romans 3:19 that says,

“Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those under the Law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be under judgment to God.” (Romans 3:19).

But you fail to understand that Paul is talking in context to the problem of Circumcision Salvation in this chapter. He says in Romans 3:1 what profit is there in circumcision? For in Acts of the Apostles 15:1, certain Jews were trying to get Gentile Christians to be circumcised in order to be initially saved. Paul said in Galatians 5:2 that if you seek to be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. Circumcision is a part of the Mosaic Laws (the 613) and not the laws of Christ. Paul also is also referring to our Initial Salvation, as well. If this is not the case, then you must conclude that Romans 3:11 applies to your current life in that you don't seek after God and that you don't understand anything (spiritually). But if Romans 3:11 is referring to the time of our life before we came to God, then it is leading us to the point of how we need to come to the Lord and be initially saved by God's grace through faith.

So the ball is back in your court. Either ignore these verses or explain them.
By ignoring them, I will take it that your belief is simply not true.
For how can you explain away the Bible?
You really cannot do that.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

In 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, we see a similar list of sins and such people who practice such sins (Galatians 5:21) are described as the unrighteous. (1 Corinthians 6:9)

The Legalists That Love to trot these verses out take them out of Context.....they pay NO attention to the verses that precede or follow them, and make them appear to be something that they are not.....one can take the Confusion out of these verses easily.....you just need to know how to “ Rightly Divide”.......

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Your "initial" salvation nonsense culminates in "type 2 works salvation" which is not Biblical. So believing is a work? Faith is a work? Everything is a work according to your erroneous theology. You might as well not even call faith faith and works works. You basically wrap both faith and works up in a package and simply stamp "faith" on the package making no distinction between faith and works. Common error by works-salvationists. I see the forest from the trees just fine. It's you who needs new bifocals.

No. I just was watching a video where I had to shut it off and take a break from it because the one guy was saying that Romans 4:12 that says, “walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham,” is referring to doing something like good works. I disagreed strongly with the one guy in the video saying this. Abraham believing God and it being accounted to him as righteousness was the event when God told Abraham about his descendants being numbered like that of the stars of Heaven.

“And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir. And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.” (Genesis 15:4-6).

Meaning, Abraham did not do a good work when he believed God telling him that his descendants were going to be numbered like the stars of the Heaven (Whereby righteousness was imputed to him by this belief).

They think that the walking in the steps of their father Abraham is doing something like a work because walking implies doing something. But the event points to Abraham believing and not doing anything. So the walking by the steps of our father Abraham is a metaphor for merely following his example of believing or trusting God.

So I do believe we need to have faith alone but this only exists in our Initial Salvation. For when Sanctification comes (Which is also a part of our faith in believing the Bible), then it is both faith and the work of faith. But when we first come to the Lord Jesus for salvation, it was not of works or in anything major that we did. God saved us by His mercy and grace and by our believing the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. So I do not agree with those believers who hold to the view that faith can only exist unless it has works. I don't believe that. I believe faith is a two sided coin. I believe faith starts off as a belief alone (in our Initial Salvation), but then faith continues with it being manifested to doing the work of faith and or in being faithful to God.

In other words, I believe in Temporal Faith Alone Salvationism, and not Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationism. For not even you believe in Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationism because you said that a genuine saving faith will always have good works. The only way works do not play a part in the salvation equation is if a believer can live out his faith his whole life and be saved by a belief alone in Jesus (with no fruit whatsoever).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The Legalists That Love to trot these verses out take them out of Context.....they pay NO attention to the verses that precede or follow them, and make them appear to be something that they are not.....one can take the Confusion out of these verses easily.....you just need to know how to “ Rightly Divide”.......

That's simply not true. You and the others here have not provided any context that refutes what I actually believe the Bible teaches. You have not explained any verses I put forth to you that refutes your belief.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Here's the way I see it:
This is not a problem. Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationism answers that our sin is not the end of our Salvation and our fruitfulness is not the cause of our Salvation. How can it ignore what it answers?

While fruitfulness is not the cause of our salvation (the igniter) because we are Initially Saved by God's grace without works (Ephesians 2:8-9), fruitfulness is about maintaining our salvation and or continuing with God's plan of salvation in the Sanctification of the Spirit (See: 2 Thessalonians 2:13) (Romans 8:13).

Works For Salvation Verses (After We are Saved By God’s Grace):

1. “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.” (James 2:24).
   
   
2. “Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.” (James 2:17).
   
   
3. 10 “For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: 16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.” (Titus 1:10, and Titus 1:16).
   
   
4. “And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.” (Luke 10:25-28).
   
   
5. “And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:29).
   
   
6. “For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).
   
   
7. “Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee ? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee ? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:34-46).
   
   
8. “In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).
   
   
9. “Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.” (Matthew 7:24-27).
   
   
10. “I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.” (John 15:5-6).
    
    
11. “And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.” (1 Peter 4:18-19).
    
    
12. “Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:” (Hebrews 12:14).
    
    
13. “And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.” (Matthew 3:10).
    
    
14. “He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.” (1 John 2:4).
    
    
15. “If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing,…” (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Man entering God's Kingdom by his own obedience reduces Christ as ineffective. So now you have a problem. The Bible says Christ is effective and you are arguing against it.

But the Bible says work out your salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12).
2 Corinthians 7:1 says let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God. Paul says in 1 Corinthians 9:27 that he beats his body to keep it under subjection so that he may not be a castaway. Romans 8:13 says if you walk after the flesh (sin), you will die, but if you put to death the misdeeds of the body (sin) by the Spirit, you will live (live eternally).

In fact, the purpose Christ gave Himself for us was that He might cleanse us wash us with the water of the Word so that He might present to Himself a church that is holy, without spot, and without blemish (See: Ephesians 5:25-27). Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15). Paul said if any man does not love the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be accursed (1 Corinthians 16:22).

God is always the consistent standard of morality so this isn't a problem.

It is a problem because God cannot do anything that would lead His people into sin.
Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationism leads people to justify sin on some level.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Problem #4. - It's a purely man made doctrine that attempts to call those who do good as bad, and those who do bad as being good.

This is unfounded. I will match your style: Problem #4 is false and therefore not a real problem.

No. This is not unfounded. Those Christians who believe as I do who take a stand for the Bible in that we have to obey God as a part of entering God's Kingdom (after we are saved by God's grace), we are basically labeled as the bad guys or as heretics, etcetera (In fact, see post #160). I know. I have experienced lots of backlash over the years since talking against Free Grace Christianity since 2011. You can even read such statements by Free Grace Christians online. Generally speaking: Christians doing righteousness is condemned unless it includes sinning on some kind of level (i.e. We must admit that we will always sin this side of Heaven based on a false misinterpretation on 1 John 1:8). They think filthy rags of righteousness would include obeying God's instructions in the Bible.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I am not in disagreement that we must believe the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 for our Initial Salvation, and as a type of thing we need to continue to believe in for salvation. What I am in disagreement with is the Protestant saying that says we are to simply believe on the finished work of the cross for salvation (When in reality it also includes believing in His burial, and resurrection and in the fact that He died for our sins).




In a nutshell, this is your problem....Paul’s Gospel Of 1Cor15:1-4 is what one must Believe to be Saved.....it has Two Parts.....the “FIRST” part is that Jesus “died for your Sins”....You don’t Believe it......You Believe in Satan’s Fantasy Land Of “ Purgatory” ......that place where *YOU” pay for all those sins that somehow the Blood did not cover....

Talk about counting the Blood Of Jesus as something that as “Worthless !!” I could fill a warehouse with your False Catholic “ Doctrine”..... you ADD to the Gospel with your Seven Sacraments, thereby making yourself “ Fallen From Grace” and becoming “Severed from Christ”...... Your Damnable Belief In Purgatory PROVES that you don’t believe Jesus Died for your sins......

If *YOU* are not preaching a “ False and Perverted” so- called Gospel, Nobody is............Paul wrote that if “ ANYBODY” ( even an Angel!) came preaching a gospel that differed from his—- let That man be “ Accursed”, which is a polite way to say “Damned by God”......You, my sin- filled Friend, are on VERY Dangerous ground....You really need to read the Book Of Galatians and pray to God to open your eyes to understand it.....that “ ACCURSED” man mentioned in Gal1:8 ? Its “ YOU!”