22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[covenantee]

You made a remark to me and said my question was answered in that post

I was not discussing the present kingdom.

I pray now you see why I said your post did not answer the comment I made.

Copy paste the particulars.

 

[Timtofly]

I didn't say you did. I was saying that I don't know how other Premils could believe otherwise.

Where is the scripture, besides your understanding of Revelation 20, that you can reference that supports this claim?

How does your view line up with what Jesus taught here:

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

You have the dead being raised on at least 3 different occasions, right? How does that fit with what Jesus taught in John 5:28-29?


In terms of dead believers in particular, how does your view line up with what Paul taught here:

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

Paul indicated that believers will be resurrected when Jesus comes and does not mention them being resurrected at any other time. If believers will be resurrected at some other time(s) besides just when Jesus comes again, then why didn't Paul mention that within a passage where he gives the order of bodily resurrections (unto bodily immortality), with Christ's being the first?

This is based on your interpretation of a bodily resurrection. Those in Abraham's bosom left their graves with physical bodies at the Cross. You condemned them to thousands of more years of death. Jesus did not, nor does He condemn any one to death after the Cross. Jesus states no one will even taste death after the Cross. Yet you state all since the Cross do taste death until a future resurrection. You put the redeemed back into Abraham's bosom, but now the place may be called Paul's bosom since he wrote more of the NT, and was a prominent father of the NT church. That is the sad implication of Amil's single future resurrection.

Those alive at the Second Coming are the only dead resurrected out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh. Everyone else already shed Adam's dead corruptible flesh without tasting death.

 

[WalkInLight]

Thats not the purpose of prophecy.

the purpose of prophesy is there so those who DO see it. will know that the god of the boble spoke it. and because of it turn to him

We can't change Gods word my friend



Yes he did

so the AOD happens

then 3.5 years later christ returns.

everyone will know when jesus will return and ends evil on this earth

He will not come as a thief

I do not want to nitpick, but if you use terms like 3.5 years you are talking as if this is scientific years, months, days, rather than a symbolic term. Equally in Revelation it is spoken of the 144,000 as if this an exact number rather than a symbol of completion and finishing of the destiny of the tribes and Israel. At the time of writing revelation, the ten lost tribes were lost and people did not know if they were part of which tribe. So is this implying the tribes are staying pure from the time of writing to now and are a group who can literally be identified?

What I mean by this, if as an artist I am painting a picture, colour will be used to represent certain features but the boundaries and exact sizes do not matter to get the image. So revelation is a painting on a grand scale. It summarises things and brings out important points but which are literal and which metaphor is difficult to judge. A dragon, a harlot, a beast, a statue etc. all are representations of different things, cities, satan, a corrupt power etc.

If after reading all of scripture and seeing Jesus and His statements who declares He will return as a thief in the night, to say he will not come as a thief in the night suggests the emphasis of saying "Jesus will not come as a thief" is wrong, because it contradicts Jesus's sharing.

God bless you

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Copy paste the particulars.

the kingdom (church) has been here since the day of pentecost.

The kingdom (Messianic rule) has yet to arrive. (future kingdom)

Post 545 references the Kingdom which is here.

 

[Truth7t7]

this is ridiculous

Why warn someone UNLESS they can sin.

If sin is IMPOSSIBLE there is no need of a warning..

You remain silent on the river of life seen "Why"?

Now what are you going to do with the "Eternal" river of life flowing out of Jerusalem in Zechariah 14:8?

The River Of Life Flowing From New Jerusalem

Zechariah 14:8KJV
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

Revelation 22:1KJV
1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

Ezekiel 47:1-12KJV
1 Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house; and, behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward: for the forefront of the house stood toward the east, and the waters came down from under from the right side of the house, at the south side of the altar.
2 Then brought he me out of the way of the gate northward, and led me about the way without unto the utter gate by the way that looketh eastward; and, behold, there ran out waters on the right side.
3 And when the man that had the line in his hand went forth eastward, he measured a thousand cubits, and he brought me through the waters; the waters were to the ankles.
4 Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through the waters; the waters were to the knees. Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through; the waters were to the loins.
5 Afterward he measured a thousand; and it was a river that I could not pass over: for the waters were risen, waters to swim in, a river that could not be passed over.
6 And he said unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen this? Then he brought me, and caused me to return to the brink of the river.
7 Now when I had returned, behold, at the bank of the river were very many trees on the one side and on the other.
8 Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.
9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.
10 And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many.
11 But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.
12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I do not want to nitpick, but if you use terms like 3.5 years you are talking as if this is scientific years, months, days, rather than a symbolic term.

when God says something will happens in hears. He is not speaking symbolically. If he did. Then no one could use that prophecy to prove what he said is true. you could make it say anything.

Equally in Revelation it is spoken of the 144,000 as if this an exact number rather than a symbol of completion and finishing of the destiny of the tribes and Israel. At the time of writing revelation, the ten lost tribes were lost and people did not know if they were part of which tribe. So is this implying the tribes are staying pure from the time of writing to now and are a group who can literally be identified?

What happened at the time of righting means nothing.

God said 144000 from each tribe will do something, take him at his word..

What I mean by this, if as an artist I am painting a picture, colour will be used to represent certain features but the boundaries and exact sizes do not matter to get the image. So revelation is a painting on a grand scale. It summarises things and brings out important points but which are literal and which metaphor is difficult to judge. A dragon, a harlot, a beast, a statue etc. all are representations of different things, cities, satan, a corrupt power etc.

If after reading all of scripture and seeing Jesus and His statements who declares He will return as a thief in the night, to say he will not come as a thief in the night suggests the emphasis of saying "Jesus will not come as a thief" is wrong, because it contradicts Jesus's sharing.

God bless you

The destroys the purpose of prophecy.

Prophecy is God saying THIS WILL HAPPEN.

if it does not happen. we are told to ignore the prophet that said that that would happen..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You remain silent on the river of life seen "Why"?

Now what are you going to do with the "Eternal" river of life flowing out of Jerusalem in Zechariah 14:8?

Zechariah 14:8KJV
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

Revelation 22:1KJV
1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

good day sir

The living waters will flow from jerusalem. after jesus lands and the mountain is tore in too O am not denying that

Your denying God said people CAN SIN, and they ill be punished if they do.

again, I am done with your nonsense. after years of trying to discuss with you. I have grow weary.

I will say enough just for someone who may ready your stuff. I know you will never hear a word I say.

 

[Truth7t7]

good day sir

The living waters will flow from jerusalem. after jesus lands and the mountain is tore in too O am not denying that

Your denying God said people CAN SIN, and they ill be punished if they do.

again, I am done with your nonsense. after years of trying to discuss with you. I have grow weary.

I will say enough just for someone who may ready your stuff. I know you will never hear a word I say.

We Agree, The River Of Life Will Flow After The Return Of Jesus, But It Will Be In "The Eternal Kingdom" And Not A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth As You Believe And Teach

When Jesus Christ Returns, In The "Twinkling Of An Eye" Eternal Immortality Begins

"The Eternal Kingdom" The River Of Life Flowing From New Jerusalem

Zechariah 14:8KJV
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

Revelation 22:1KJV
1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Ezekiel 47:1-12KJV
1 Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house; and, behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward: for the forefront of the house stood toward the east, and the waters came down from under from the right side of the house, at the south side of the altar.
2 Then brought he me out of the way of the gate northward, and led me about the way without unto the utter gate by the way that looketh eastward; and, behold, there ran out waters on the right side.
3 And when the man that had the line in his hand went forth eastward, he measured a thousand cubits, and he brought me through the waters; the waters were to the ankles.
4 Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through the waters; the waters were to the knees. Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through; the waters were to the loins.
5 Afterward he measured a thousand; and it was a river that I could not pass over: for the waters were risen, waters to swim in, a river that could not be passed over.
6 And he said unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen this? Then he brought me, and caused me to return to the brink of the river.
7 Now when I had returned, behold, at the bank of the river were very many trees on the one side and on the other.
8 Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.
9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.
10 And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many.
11 But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.
12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

 

[WPM]

the passage itself speaks of 2 distinct ressurections

I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

they were killed and now live and reign thats a ressurection

5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.

here is the second. I do not have to go to the rest of scripture. it is there in black and white. The only reason you would have to go elswhere is because your belief does not fit what is said.

we are talking about rev 20. Lets get this first.. I am not playing your game.

Its as bad as another person who says when John said if we say we have son sin, John was not talking about himself. We have to go to the rest of scripture to prove he did not talk about himself.

You are actually reinforcing the Op. Premil is a non-corroborative doctrine as you admit. It is dependent on one placing a private interpretation on the most debated chapter in Scripture and in the most symbolic setting in Scripture. This meaning contradicts numerous clear and literal passages that show the second coming to be climactic and which witnesses the end for sin and sinners, crying and dying, decay and disease, war and terror, Satan and his minions. That is telling! Are essentially interpreting your opinion of Revelation 20 by your opinion of Revelation 20. I cannot think of anything more unsafe. It is horrible hermeneutics. This is why Christians should run from the doctrine.

show me IN THE PASSAGE. where there is only 1 resurrection.

Glad you asked! The resurrection/judgment are tied together. It obviously takes one to allow the other. For there to be one general judgment then Scripture must also teach one general resurrection. This I believe Scripture does in several places. I believe there is one physical resurrection day that sees one all-encompassing raising of mankind. However, within that one resurrection there are two distinct categories of rising embodied: (1) unto “life,” and (2) unto “damnation.” Notwithstanding, there is an undoubted order to the general resurrection; the dead in Christ will rise first, etc.

It is at this great concluding event that both the righteous and the wicked will be raised to face the great final judgment. Notwithstanding, there are two aspects to the one all-consummating resurrection day.

Jesus said in Matthew 12:41-42, “The men of Nineveh shall rise [Gr. anistemi Strong’s 450] in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here. The queen of the south shall rise up [Gr. egeiro Strong’s 1453] in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.”

The righteous Old Testament Gentile saint – the queen of the south – is raised at the same time as the wicked Pharisees of Christ’s day to stand before the same judgment seat of Christ.

This is further impressed in the parallel portion in Luke 11:31, only with an additional example, saying, “The queen of the south shall rise up [Gr. egeiro Strong’s 1453] in the judgment with the men of this generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here. The men of Nineveh shall rise up [Gr. anistemi Strong’s 450] in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.”

Here, the two main words used throughout the New Testament for resurrection are applied to the general resurrection that occurs on Judgment Day when the Old Testament time saints and wicked join the New Testament saints and wicked at the judgment. Remember the queen of the south and Nineveh are presented as Old Testament Gentile saints that will “rise up in the judgment with” the wicked unbelieving Jews of Christ’s day. There is no prolonged parenthesis period separating the resurrection of the wicked dead and the resurrection of the righteous dead. They both “rise up” at the same time. The Old Testament Gentile city of Nineveh is shown to “rise up in the judgment with” (or meta) the religious Jewish world of Christ’s day and “condemn it.” The Greek word meta (3326) is described in Strong’s concordance as “a primary preposition (often used adverbially); properly, denoting accompaniment; ‘amid’.”

Amils therefore maintain that there is one general resurrection, of the just and unjust, at the second advent of Christ. The righteous then inherit the earth in an eternal state. Premils understanding of Revelation 20 conflict with numerous Scripture. Daniel 12:2 teaches a general resurrection at the end of the tribulation. This is in order for a general judgment – sheep/goats, wheat/tares before the same throne at the same time.

Jesus explains in John 5:28-29, “Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”

Please notice “the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth.” We are not just looking at the righteous, we are looking at both the righteous and the wicked. The passage goes on to confirm: “they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” All that are in the graves will come forth when He comes. The righteous will be ushered into His glorious kingdom, the wicked shall be damned for all eternity in the lake of fire.

The righteous and wicked dead all rise in response to the same sovereign voice - Christ's. Christ’s description of the resurrection depicts a unitary event, albeit in two parts. Part 1 is the elect; Part 2 is the wicked. Jesus explains in John 5:28-29, “Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth.” Evidently there is only one resurrection albeit involving two separated aspects: “they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”

There is one physical resurrection day in which there are two types of raising, (1) unto life, (2) unto damnation. Acts 24:15 says, “there shall be a resurrection of the dead (singular), both of the just and unjust.”

This verse speaks of a singular “resurrection of the dead” not multiple resurrections (plural) of the dead as the Premillennialist would try and intimate. The fact that Paul differentiates between the wicked and the righteous in no way proves that these are two separate resurrections coming at the end of two separate ages split by 1,000 years+ of history (filled with all the produce of the curse – sin, death and corruption). No, it simply demonstrates that there are two types of resurrection in the one final resurrection of the dead at the end. In fact, for Premils to insist on their concept is to force something into the passage that doesn’t truly exist. Scripture constantly distinguishes between the wicked and the righteous even though they are found participating in the same event at the same time. Why would anyone think it strange that the Holy Spirit would identify the two different parties that take part in the general “resurrection of the dead”? After all, it is a normal biblical procedure to distinguish between these two conflicting camps. Although to suggest that the identifying of these two distinct parties indicates two separate events at two separate times is illogical.

Daniel 12:1-3 reveals, “And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.”

This reading shows a general resurrection involving two types of people – the righteous and the wicked; one group rises "to everlasting life" the other to "everlasting contempt." The fact that we see a clear description of the general resurrection of the righteous and the wicked tells us that this is a tribulation that occurs prior to the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The word here for “many” in the original Hebrew (rab) actually means: the abundance, referring to quantity, size, age, number, rank, quality. In the sense it is used here it includes everyone that is in the grave. Namely: “the abundance of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake.”

 

[Eternally Grateful]

We Agree, The River Of Life Will Flow After The Return Of Jesus, But It Will Be In "The Eternal Kingdom" And Not A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth As You Believe And Teach

The River Of Life Flowing From New Jerusalem

Zechariah 14:8KJV
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

Revelation 22:1KJV
1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

Ezekiel 47:1-12KJV
1 Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house; and, behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward: for the forefront of the house stood toward the east, and the waters came down from under from the right side of the house, at the south side of the altar.
2 Then brought he me out of the way of the gate northward, and led me about the way without unto the utter gate by the way that looketh eastward; and, behold, there ran out waters on the right side.
3 And when the man that had the line in his hand went forth eastward, he measured a thousand cubits, and he brought me through the waters; the waters were to the ankles.
4 Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through the waters; the waters were to the knees. Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through; the waters were to the loins.
5 Afterward he measured a thousand; and it was a river that I could not pass over: for the waters were risen, waters to swim in, a river that could not be passed over.
6 And he said unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen this? Then he brought me, and caused me to return to the brink of the river.
7 Now when I had returned, behold, at the bank of the river were very many trees on the one side and on the other.
8 Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.
9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.
10 And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many.
11 But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.
12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

for those who are as frustrated as I am by this guys continued to reject what the prophet said.

He said that people can sin. and not only said they can, but said if they do. they will be punished.

Yet he wants us all to think this is meant for eternity future. not Gods rule here on earth.

yeas, I am SMH also!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You are actually reinforcing the Op. Premil is a non-corroborative doctrine as you admit. It is dependent on one placing a private interpretation on the most debated chapter in Scripture and in the most symbolic setting in Scripture.

Is this your catholic answer? You can not answer my question in the passage, so you resort to the private interpretation argument?

there is nothing symbolic about this passage. God said it will happen.

If you want to take it as symbolic then feel free.

I believe when God says these things will happen. they will

you have two options.

Show me IN THE PASSAGE what you want me to see

2 Admit you can not in the passage support your view.

and I will move on to someone who actually wants to discuss the word, not someone who is spoonfed what to believe and told that the church has the truth, and anyone who disagrees has a provate interpretation.

sorry if that sounds harsh. You opened the door with your catholic nonsense

 

[marks]

when God says something will happens in hears. He is not speaking symbolically. If he did. Then no one could use that prophecy to prove what he said is true. you could make it say anything.

And . . . when everything is "allegory" or "symbol", where is the common interpretation? Each comes to their own. I've heard maybe half a dozen interpretations of who the 144,000 are if not that many Jewish men. I've even had a few answer me of which "spiritual tribe" are they. A few different ideas of what the "seal of the living God" may actually be, whether it's on the forehead, or in the mind.

Very quickly these add up.

Let's say 3 interpretations of each. With 4 conditions, that comes out to 81 different possible points of view. That's just from a couple of verses.

However, if you take it to mean exactly what it says, 144,000 Jewish men who have not had sex, then we can all understand what that means, and we have one common POW, in otherwords, Unity of knowledge, as in Ephesians 4.

If there is unity in doctrine to be had among us, this is how we get there.

Much love!

 

[WalkInLight]

when God says something will happens in hears. He is not speaking symbolically. If he did. Then no one could use that prophecy to prove what he said is true. you could make it say anything.


What happened at the time of righting means nothing.

God said 144000 from each tribe will do something, take him at his word..


The destroys the purpose of prophecy.

Prophecy is God saying THIS WILL HAPPEN.

if it does not happen. we are told to ignore the prophet that said that that would happen..

Gods speaks, His intentions are his own. Jesus spoke of the yeast of the pharisees. He was not talking about how they made bread, but about their hypocrisy that worked through everything they said and did, the emotional meaning of the show and what actually went on behind the scenes.

In Daniel the vision of a statue with different parts being the future of how the empire will fare is again a metaphor for the strength of leaderships etc. In the garden of eden a snake spoke. I have not met speaking snakes anywhere.

Metaphor is used throughout scripture. And yes the complexity of scripture is seen through the eyes and heart of the reader. I know over my life things are much clearer now when I see the emotional expression of people as opposed to factual or historical expression.

The Lord declares He will destroy Israel. What the Lord is expressing is His anger and frustration at Israel. Moses and Aaron intercede and come with the other side of the emotional reality of Gods reputation and name and His promises that would not be fulfilled, justifiably but still the emotional context matters. It is hard to see this reality, we are exalted to the throne to see our King in His love and care, torn by justice and grace, and open for us to call and share. What a King.

One problem with prophecy is if it is vague, as a lot of the prophecy of end times are, it leads to subjective interpretation and error. Do I need to be a prophet to say one day I will die?

The church now in terms of people who claim to know the Lord, are happy to speak on His behalf and lie. Strange, because they have no fear if they are lying on behalf of God they are cast out unless they repent.

So there are a lot of false prophets and teachers who supported Trump, who claimed he will be president last year, who said they had a direct word from the Father. So the preciousness of Gods word is not held very highly.

If anyone is prepared to contradict Christs direct simple words, "I will come back as a thief in the night" why should I take anything else as authoritative from that individual?

God bless you

 

[marks]

What happened at the time of righting means nothing.

God said 144000 from each tribe will do something, take him at his word..

I think this is a big issue with some, they just can't understand how certain things could be.

Like after Israel was dispersed, the land razed, renamed, gone. Centuries passed, and Israel remained gone. More centuries went by, and commentators and "scholars" started talking about how Israel had been replaced by the church, who would substitute to receive the promised given to Israel, but in some other way, "spiritual", not material as the promises were.

And this became very established doctrine.

Certain men though continue to accept the Bible for what it said, including that God would not finish with Israel, but would fulfill all things. So they, just like Faithful Abraham, who believed that God could raise Isaac from the dead, believed that God could restore Israel according to the sayings of the prophets.

God restored Israel, and they again live in their promised land. But look at the damage done by some many teachers and scholars who would not believe the plain truth of the Word!

If there is any "private interpretation"* of prophecy, it's when you say, "No, that doesn't mean what that word normally means, it means ________", and then they tell you their personal interpretation of what it "really" means.

* When Peter wrote that no prophecy is of private interpretation, this referred to the source of the prophecy. Prophets didn't just write their own thoughts about things. This may be one of the most commonly misunderstood verses in the Bible.

Much love!

 

[WPM]

Is this your catholic answer? You can not answer my question in the passage, so you resort to the private interpretation argument?

there is nothing symbolic about this passage. God said it will happen.

If you want to take it as symbolic then feel free.

I believe when God says these things will happen. they will

you have two options.

Show me IN THE PASSAGE what you want me to see

2 Admit you can not in the passage support your view.

and I will move on to someone who actually wants to discuss the word, not someone who is spoonfed what to believe and told that the church has the truth, and anyone who disagrees has a provate interpretation.

sorry if that sounds harsh. You opened the door with your catholic nonsense

You have avoided post after post, argument after argument and Scripture after Scripture. Obviously you have nothing of evidential worth to bring to the table. If you had, you doubtless would. BTW, I am not Catholic, but solidly Reformed. What I am relaying to you was the standard truth of the Reformation, the Puritans and the Covenanters. Your failure to support your eschatological theories with hard Scripture is damning to your doctrine. When you resort to insults and name-calling you have quickly lost the debate. Sadly, this is the typical Premil way of engagement online!

• The binding of Satan is spiritual. Satan is not human and physical. He is a spirit. A spirit cannot be held by physical restraints. What is more, he is not in a physical prison or is he restrained by metal chains.
• The binding does not suggest our enemy must be motionless or does it describe inactivity. Prisoners have movement in a prison albeit in a limited capacity, under strict rules and within controlled confines.
• Revelation 20 does not suggest that the devil is unable to inflict harm on anyone while bound. Everyone knows that a prisoner can perpetrate all types of crimes within the prison precincts.

 

[Truth7t7]

for those who are as frustrated as I am by this guys continued to reject what the prophet said.

He said that people can sin. and not only said they can, but said if they do. they will be punished.

Yet he wants us all to think this is meant for eternity future. not Gods rule here on earth.

yeas, I am SMH also!

Your claims are "false" in a direct personal attack, in non-response to the scriptural facts below

The River Of Life Will Flow After The Return Of Jesus, But It Will Be In "The Eternal Kingdom" And Not A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth As You Believe And Teach

When Jesus Christ Returns, In The "Twinkling Of An Eye" Eternal Immortality Begins

"The Eternal Kingdom" The River Of Life Flowing From New Jerusalem

Zechariah 14:8KJV
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

Revelation 22:1KJV
1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Ezekiel 47:1-12KJV
1 Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house; and, behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward: for the forefront of the house stood toward the east, and the waters came down from under from the right side of the house, at the south side of the altar.
2 Then brought he me out of the way of the gate northward, and led me about the way without unto the utter gate by the way that looketh eastward; and, behold, there ran out waters on the right side.
3 And when the man that had the line in his hand went forth eastward, he measured a thousand cubits, and he brought me through the waters; the waters were to the ankles.
4 Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through the waters; the waters were to the knees. Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through; the waters were to the loins.
5 Afterward he measured a thousand; and it was a river that I could not pass over: for the waters were risen, waters to swim in, a river that could not be passed over.
6 And he said unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen this? Then he brought me, and caused me to return to the brink of the river.
7 Now when I had returned, behold, at the bank of the river were very many trees on the one side and on the other.
8 Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.
9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.
10 And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many.
11 But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.
12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

 

[marks]

When you resort to insults and name-calling you have quickly lost debate. Sadly, this is the typical Premil way of engagement online!

You haven't answered me on this.

Much love!

 

[Truth7t7]

When you resort to insults and name-calling you have quickly lost the debate. Sadly, this is the typical Premil way of engagement online!

• The binding of Satan is spiritual. Satan is not human and physical. He is a spirit. A spirit cannot be held by physical restraints. What is more, he is not in a physical prison or is he restrained by metal chains.
• The binding does not suggest our enemy must be motionless or does it describe inactivity. Prisoners have movement in a prison albeit in a limited capacity, under strict rules and within controlled confines.
• Revelation 20 does not suggest that the devil is unable to inflict harm on anyone while bound. Everyone knows that a prisoner can perpetrate all types of crimes within the prison precincts.

I Agree 100% Good Post Of Truth!

 

[Truth7t7]

• The binding of Satan is spiritual. Satan is not human and physical. He is a spirit. A spirit cannot be held by physical restraints. What is more, he is not in a physical prison or is he restrained by metal chains.
• The binding does not suggest our enemy must be motionless or does it describe inactivity. Prisoners have movement in a prison albeit in a limited capacity, under strict rules and within controlled confines.
• Revelation 20 does not suggest that the devil is unable to inflict harm on anyone while bound. Everyone knows that a prisoner can perpetrate all types of crimes within the prison precincts.

Satan is "Currently" bound from "One Specific Purpose", And One Only?

"Deceive The Nations" To Battle

The Non-Literal 1,000 Years (Revelation) 20:1-6 Are Taking Place Now In The Lords Spiritual, And Will Cease At The Future Second Coming

If A Tribulation Saint Were To Die One Day Before The Second Coming, He Enters Into The Non-Literal 1,000 Year Reign

Many That Promote Millennialism Falsely Teach, Satan Cant Be Presently Bound Because Evil Exist In The World?

Satan Is Presently Bound As Is Clearly Seen In (Revelation) 20:7-8 Below That Interprets (Deceive The Nations) Is To Battle, Not General Evil In The World Presently.

Satan Is Loosed At The End Of The Tribulation When The 6th Vial Is Poured Out As Seen In (Revelation) 16:12, The Deception Is Devils In False Miracles Going Forth To The Kings Of The Earth, To Gather Them To The Final Battle

(Revelation) 20:1-9KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

(Revelation) 16:12-14 & (Revelation) 20:7-8 Same Deception In Gathering The Nations To The Very Same Final Battle In "Parallel" Teachings Of The Same Event

(Revelation) 16:12-17KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

But, this interpretation contradicts a lot of other scripture passages which teach that Christ reigns now, all of the dead will be resurrected around the same time, all people will be judged at the same time and that all unbelievers will be killed on the day Christ returns. Is that of no concern to you?

The number of times the thousand years is mentioned is irrelevant and does not determine if it's literal or not. The beast is mentioned over 30 times in the book of Revelation. Does that make it a literal beast?

We should pay attention that this is written within a book containing a great deal of symbolic text.

1. Christ is not reigning now over the earth! If He is, He really sucks at running a kingdom. Things are worse now than 100 years ago and going downhill fast! But I would like to see the verses that say Jesus is reigning now. I know He is preparing a place for the church and ever lives to make intercession. The bible tells me when Jesus reigns, He reigns with a rod of iron.

2. The bible in Rev. 20 makes it very plain there is a 1,000 year gap between resurrections!

3. No when Jesus physically touches down, they will be killed but not go to the lake of fire. They go to the place of torments awaiting the Great white throne judgment. but there is the question of the billions who have already died before Jesus returns. The saved will already be resurrected. The lost will have to wait 1,000 years.

4. the bible always defines its symbols. The beast is defined in Daniel.

5. It doesn't matter if the 1,000 years is in revelation or not. That is what many use as an excuse to redfine this number to mean something else. That is not exegesis, but eisegesis and reinterpreting. there is no necessity or reason to reinterpret teh 1,000 years. Even in Revelation there are many many literal things! Like the churches, seals, bowls and trumpets and their judgments.