22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[WPM]

your stuck on a catholic doctrine my friend. You can not prove your point so yuo use the same arguments they did.

My friend, They created this doctrine you follow.. Thats why you are forced to use their excuses.

Believe what you want.. The fact you are unable to look at the few verses in Rv 19 and 20 to prove your point, or at the very least get me to question that I may be wrong. and the fact you keep using the same old arguments people have been making for years. Leads me to understand there is no need to continue

when your ready to discuss the word. and not what you have been TAUGHT. let me know

You are brazen to talk like this. Your insults reveal the impotence of your position. Before the RCC the early Fathers held to this truth. I have showed you that Revelation 19 is climactic. I have showed you the futility of your highlighting of the word kai. But alas you refuse to address my comments.

 

[WPM]

It says Satan was bound

It says he was grabbed, and they bound HIM (1 being)

the only other people mentioned were the beast and false prophet.

It says the beast and false prophet were cast into the lake of fire

do you believe the lake of fire is a literal place?

Matthew 12:22-29 records, “Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw. And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David? But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils. And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand? And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges. But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. Or else how can one enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind [Gr. deo] the strong man? And then he will spoil his house.”

Jesus describes Satan here as the “strong man.” He depicts Himself as the One who enters the house the strong man and plunders his goods. But before this happens he must first be incapacitated.

The Lord identifies the casting out of devils, and the resulting liberating of souls, with the actual binding of the strong man. He in turn presents this as proof that Satan is curbed through the presence and victorious function of the kingdom of God. Christ was specifically referring to Satan here (the strong man) and his demonic kingdom, and expressly connects his binding with the manifestation of the kingdom of God during His earthly ministry. The subjugating of devils was proof of the spiritual restraint of the evil one. Satan could not prevent this. Satan could not overcome those who had been rescued by Christ.

The devil was subject to the purposes of God and hurt by the spiritual advance of the kingdom of God. This kingdom is still alive and active today. Souls are still being marvelously delivered from the power of Satan. The binding of the strong man continues today wherever the Gospel prevails.

Mark 3:11, 23-27 also records: “unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God ... And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils. And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan? And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end. No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind [Gr. deo] the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.”

This familiar discourse by our Lord came as a response to the crude scoffs of the religious Scribes (during His earthly ministry) dismissing Christ’s deliverance ministry as a work of Satan. Christ’s reply confirmed that the binding of Satan commenced 2,000 yrs ago and is not simply a future hope that will occur after the Lord’s return. He said: “No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.” Christ was firstly referring to the false charge that was laid at his door in relation to his assault on the demonic realm. Secondly, He was describing the subjugation of the “unclean spirits” as “when they saw him” they “fell down before him” in surrender.

Jesus said in the corresponding passage in Luke 11:20-22, “if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you. When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace: But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.”

Here, Christ highlights the Sovereign power of the kingdom of God and reveals how the “strong man” – Satan – and his kingdom of devils can only be defeated by One that is stronger than them, namely Himself – the Son of God. As we examine the gospels we discover, Satan was stripped everywhere that Christ confronted him. The Lord entered the devil’s house and took authority over him and spoilt His goods. Previously, Satan's grip on the nations was so strong and so embedded that the truth of God's Word could not penetrate through. The devil overwhelmingly controlled the Gentile nations.

Revelation 20:1-3 states, “And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound [Gr. deo] him a thousand years, And cast him into the abyss and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.”

The binding, imprisonment and sealing of the dragon are themselves metaphors for the curtailment of Satan's authority. While a prisoner has movement within a prison he is restricted to very clear boundaries that cannot be breached. If we view the heavenly angel as being Christ (as most commentators of all views do), then there seems reasonable grounds to come to that conclusion. This whole portrayal corresponds with the great battle of the ages that occurred with the earthly life, death and resurrection of Christ 2,000 years when Christ stripped Satan of his previous authority given to him by man. This seems to fit the victorious outworking of this great conflict when Christ assumed “All power ... in heaven and in earth” (Matthew 28:18).

Christ secured absolute victory over Satan and every other enemy through His foreordained death, burial and resurrection. He now exercises supreme kingly control in the heavenly realm. He holds sovereign power upon God’s eternal throne over all mankind. With the global expanse of the great commission the Gentiles now are without excuse. The ignorance is gone. The veil is lifted!

 

[marks]

Believe what you want.. The fact you are unable to look at the few verses in Rv 19 and 20 to prove your point, or at the very least get me to question that I may be wrong. and the fact you keep using the same old arguments people have been making for years. Leads me to understand there is no need to continue

Back when they didn't believe Israel would ever be a nation again, they had to "figure out" how all these prophecies could be fulfilled. So they came up with the answer . . . they don't mean what they say, they mean something else, it all applies to someone else. And there just IS no good argument to support that.

Either the Bible means what it says as language is used, or people assign their own meanings, and they end up all over the map.

The fact is, God anticipated all of these things, and included in His Word specific wording that addresses every error.

Much love!

 

[Timtofly]

Again you avoid the biblical text and keep presenting your beliefs. That is because to acknowledge the climactic detail of Revelation 19 would negate Premil. Premils have an issue with addressing the actual text and with finding corroboration. It is the Scriptures that confirm what we are looking at.

That is what a resurrection is for. God is starting out the Millennium with incorruptible physical bodies. No more of Adam's dead corruptible flesh. We get it. Adam's punishment for his disobedience is over, a very climactic end with all 8 billion humans shedding Adam's dead corruptible flesh!

Now, do you get: there is a resurrection?

Remember Noah and those other 7 souls who repopulated the earth? As in the days of Noah, God has millions of humans shed Adam's dead corruptible flesh, and repopulate the earth. A resurrection demands that life starts over without sin. The Resurrection and the Life does not mean the Resurrection of sin and death.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The Judean Christians fled in 66 AD when they saw "Jerusalem compassed with armies" (Luke 21:20,21). That qualifies as both a preterist and a historical event.

it also qualifies as a premillenial or dispensational event.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

My point is that if its only satan then why bother if hes only one being that can only be in one place at a time when there is billions of people?

Have you seen the destruction satan has caused from the begining of time.

WHile yes, he is one person. He is also the leader.

take the leader away. and what do you have?

Notice. during these 1000 years their is unprecidented worldwide peace.. Satans army is powerless without its leade.r

No I don't believe in an actual lake of fire its a spiritual death and torment. Imagine seeing God and then know that because of your choice you can't spend eternity with Him imparadise. That is much worse than a lake of fire imagine the remorse and regret.

Well I do believe it is a place. we are told there will be weepeng and nashing of teeth.

As for paradise. that is only temporary..as is Hades, When we are ressurected. we will be resurrected to eternity. and spend it with him in te new heavens and earth.

 

[Timtofly]

I am seeing a pattern in your posts (that is common with Premils): you do not address the text in view, you do not address the counter-points, you do not provide corroboration, and you do not answer my questions. It is all one way! Notwithstanding, I will address your argument.

Many Amillennialists see 7 cycles in Revelation relating to the intra-Advent period. These parallel each other.

Cycle 1

Cycle 1 is basically introductory. It is the only vision that was received on Patmos.

It relates to direct messages relating to the conduct of the seven churches (Ch 2-3).

CYCLE 2 (received in heaven)

Seven Seals (Ch 6-8:1)

CYCLE 3 (received in heaven)

Seven Trumpets (Ch 8:6-10:7)

CYCLE 4 (received in heaven)

The Church and its onslaught from the devil (Ch 12) including a parallel view of the beast’s (the world antichrist system – intra-advent) persecution of the elect (Ch 13) and the simultaneous joy of the redeemed (Ch 14) in heaven (Ch 12-14).

CYCLE 5 (received in heaven)

Seven Vials (Ch 16)

CYCLE 6 (received in heaven)

Babylon (17-19)

CYCLE 7 (received in heaven)

The figurative binding of Satan from the cross and the victorious reign of the saints in heaven. The ushering in of the New Heaven and the New Earth (Ch 20-22).

It is interesting that each of these parallels that were received in heaven (2-7) start with the Greek word kai ("And") even though they commence a new vision pertaining to the intra-Advent period and ending at the second coming.

This is all human opinion and speculation and can be tossed out with the 22 reasons, just as easy as Amil toss out pre-mill interpretations. There is other Scripture that compliments Revelation 20. Obviously Amil will never acknowledge those points, but wave their hands in dismissal, as if Scripture is just nonsense. If you all would stop calling Scripture nonsense, we could stop using the word nonsense altogether.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes we are still on the same side as its not essential doctrine

Amen and Amen my brother!!

 

[Marty fox]

Have you seen the destruction satan has caused from the begining of time.

WHile yes, he is one person. He is also the leader.

take the leader away. and what do you have?

Notice. during these 1000 years their is unprecidented worldwide peace.. Satans army is powerless without its leade.r



Well I do believe it is a place. we are told there will be weepeng and nashing of teeth.

As for paradise. that is only temporary..as is Hades, When we are ressurected. we will be resurrected to eternity. and spend it with him in te new heavens and earth.

Yes its weeping and nashing of teeth because of regret not screaming from pain

Where do you see the peace?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You are brazen to talk like this.

lol. go look in the mirror my friend

Your insults reveal the impotence of your position. Before the RCC the early Fathers held to this truth.

You can't prove this, because anything that went against roman catholic doctrine was destroyed.

I have showed you that Revelation 19 is climactic. I have showed you the futility of your highlighting of the word kai. But alas you refuse to address my comments.

You have shown me WHAT YOU BELIEVE, your opinion. your view

As for highlighting Kai. Dude I give up trying to explain anything to you.. You make every excuse in the book to not discuss the actual passage.. Until you do so. I am done..

when you want to sit down, write the passage out. and go through it step by step and show me why it says what you believe. I will be all ears.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes its weeping and nashing of teeth because of regret not screaming from pain

Where do you see the peace?

its all over the OT prophecies

even nature will at peace we are told the lion and lamb sleep together, the baby and the serpent sleep together. Even nature is at peace. controlled by Christ (he will withhold rain to the families of the earth who do not visit him once a year)

if you look at Rev 20. the next was does not occure until Satan is loosed. and he once again decieves the nations and gathers an army

 

[Ronald Nolette]

There is one literal first resurrection where Christ defeated the grave. The Bible makes it clear that Christ is "the first resurrection" (Acts 26:23 and Revelation 20:6), "the firstborn from the dead" (Colossians 1:18), "the firstfruits of them that slept" (1 Corinthians 15:20), "first begotten of the dead" (Revelation 1:5).

Since this, Revelation 20 describes the defeat and binding (or curtailment) of Satan for the expressed purpose of the Gospel invading the nations and removing the deception that blinded the Gentiles before Christ's first resurrection. When Satan was bound through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ then the kingdom of darkness was bound (including the beast and every demon). 2 Peter 2:4, Jude v 6, Revelation 9 and Revelation 20 all prove the whole demonic realm is currently restrained from stopping the free-flow of the Gospel. The bruising of the head of the beast (Revelation 13:3, 13:12 and 13:14) correlates with the bruising of the head of Satan 2,000 years ago through the earthly ministry of Christ (Genesis 3:15). They correspond with the spiritual binding imprisoning of Satan during the millennial period. These are figurative metaphors describing the impairment of the kingdom of darkness 2000 years ago.

Matthew 12:22-29, Mark 3:11, 23-27, Luke 10:18-19, Luke 11:20-22, John 12:31-33 Colossians 2:13-15, Hebrews 2:14-15, I John 3:8, Revelation 9:1-11 and Revelation 20:2 prove Satan was bound, defeated, incapacitated, divested of power, disarmed, brought to naught, undone, stripped and spiritually imprisoned through Christ's sinless life, atoning death and triumphant resurrection. Colossians 2:15 tells us: “having spoiled (or divested or disarmed) principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.” Satan has not been rendered immobile or inoperative but is limited in his power, kingship and influence by being defeated on the cross. He is like a dog on a chain. He is shackled.

It doesn't matter on e whit how one wishes to redefine the 1,000 years. the bible clearly says that there are people resurrected and reign with Christ for this contested time frame. It is called the first resurrection. Not difficult no mystery here.

Theh the bible also says after this contested time period (the 1,000 years) Satan is loosed decieves once more , is finally defeatred and then another resurrection occurs!

Why do you reject this first grade explanation of a series of events.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Totally not true! This is fake Premil news!

Jesus said Revelation 3:21: “I … overcame.”

Revelation 5:5 tells us: “behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed.”

The lion is known as the king of the jungle. It carries great authority and power. That is a very potent symbol of who Jesus is. By the way, the Bible does not say that Satan is a lion. It says that he walks about “like” a lion.

Ephesians 1:17-21, “the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come.”

This passage confirms the absolute authority that Christ now enjoys and reveals the unlimited scope of His current rule. It explicitly illustrates the current sovereign reign of Christ over all His enemies from the “right hand” of majesty on high.

Philippians 2:9-11 says, “wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name.”

He reigns today over the seen and the unseen world making every power and every authority “subject unto him.”

1 Peter 3:22 says, that Christ, “who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God (now!!!); angels and authorities and powers being (currently!!!) made subject unto him.”

Those who question Christ’s current reign do great assault upon the truth of God’s Word and undermine the current sovereign kingly position that He now assuredly holds.

Heaven’s authority is bestowed upon Christ. He is God! Colossians 2:9-10, 14-15 confirms: "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power … Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled (or divested or disarmed) principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.”

He is risen and He is reigning! He is ruling over everything! This is happening right now! Check out the actual original text and check out the tenses involved. Christ’s universal rule, which is found in His divine character, exercises supreme authority over everything and everyone that exists. This dominion is seen in His sovereign dealing with mankind, whether it is with an individual person or with accumulation of nations – all are subject to his controlling power and ultimate influence. Such authority could be justly described as Christ’s providential kingship.

Colossians 1:15-17 addresses the great sovereign reign of Christ over all creation. Stating, Christ, “Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.”

These passages couldn’t be stronger in outlining where supreme authority lies today. Christ sovereignly reigns in kingly power over all creation.

1 Corinthians 15:25-28, saying: “he must reign (present tense), till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For ’he hath put’ (present tense) all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued (or subordinated) unto him (speaking of the second coming), then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.”

Here he shows that Christ is reigning now. It is written in the present, active infinitive sense. How long does he reign? He confirms: “till he hath put all enemies under his feet.” Again, this couldn’t be clearer! Every last enemy will be subjugated and subdued at the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. The last enemy is identified as death!

There you have it! The second coming sees the final “put down” of all:

· rule
· authority
· power
· death

Hebrews 1:1-3, 2:6-8 says, “God … hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things … Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high … What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: ’Thou hast put all things in subjection’ (present tense) under his feet. For in that ‘he put all in subjection’ (present tense) under him, he left nothing that is not put under him."

Here we see our Lord’s awesome authority.

1 Timothy 1:17 describes Christ as “the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God.”

John Flavel says of Christ: “He rules and orders the Kingdom of Providence by supporting, permitting, restraining, limiting, protecting, punishing and rewarding those over whom He reigns providentially.”

Christ has set bounds upon wickedness. He limits the power and influence of the kingdom of darkness. He has spiritual limitations upon the movement and debauchery of Satan and his demons.

That is why Christ is called a King. He is ruler. He is a judge. He is Potentate. He carries ultimate authority.

As A.W. Pink puts it so well: “The limits of evil-doing and of evildoers has been divinely defined and cannot be exceeded.”

Love all these verses!

So where is jesus reigning. He is at teh right hand of teh father. that puts HIm under teh Father.
He is not on eareth-yet. teh OT is loaded with what earth weill be like when Messiah reigns- we are not even remotely close to that. so where is Jesus reigning?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

A king who is not reigning? I've never heard of such a thing. You can't be a king without reigning over your kingdom. That doesn't make any sense.

Then tell me where Jesus is ruling as He is described to rule in the bible! Do youy think present earth is what a kingdom ruled by Jesus would look like????

 

[Timtofly]

Not so!

Was there any significant change in the Gospel focus that occurred as a result of the life, death and resurrection of Christ? Was there any benefit? Was there any increase in the scope of the light shining? Was there a major turnaround in the state of the Gentiles between the Old and the New Testament? Was there any notable change in regard to the degree of ignorance and deception that curtailed the Gentiles?

Before we answer that: we should identify the general spiritual standing of both Israel and the Gentiles before God in the Old Testament and contrast that to their general spiritual standing before God in the New Testament. Repeated Old Testament and New Testament Scripture contrast the state of the "nation" (singular) Israel to the nations (plural) – the Gentiles.

Many forget that there has been a seismic change in regard to the Gospel opportunity since the First Advent specifically in regard to the nations. Before the cross the Gentiles were in blind ignorance, deceived by the father of lies. After the resurrection, the Gentiles were no longer deceived as the Gospel light shone throughout the nations. The veil of ignorance was lifted. They are now without excuse. Satan had them hoodwinked. They lay in darkness. He ruled the nations before the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. He had them under his control.

During the Old Testament era, God controlled one single nation whereas Satan controlled the nations (ethnos - the Gentiles) plural.

Why are you giving Satan all the credit?

It was Israel as God's representatives on earth that failed the Gentiles. In Jonah we even see one of these Israelites refusing to go to the Gentiles, and when they repented, he blew a gasket. Yet you give all the credit to Satan?

When you say God controlled one single nation, that is found in Scripture where? You call my interpretations nonsense, but this is even more so. God's control has never been limited to one nation, nor even one set of people, as in "Christian" people. God does not control the earth through chosen people. God uses representatives, to represent God on earth. Adam was a representative placed in the Garden as one family to keep representing God on earth. Abraham was called out of the nations to represent God on earth. Israel was called put over Ishmael to represent God on earth. After the Cross, the church any local group, was called out to represent God on earth as a "grass roots" representative.

The Millennium is God on earth and Jesus does have all authority as that representative on earth. The Millennium will be the only time God literally controls the earth, Himself in person. 1 Corinthians 15:24-25

"Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet."

Paul gives no time frames, but they do exist. When John gives us a time frame, you deny it is a literal 1,000 years. You are looking back in history and literally claiming the last 1992 years are symbolic, and are not literal. Reigning takes place with the 7th Trumpet when it declares that all earth's kingdoms are now under His direct command.

"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

Are you declaring the 7th Trumpet happened in 30AD? The Millennium is a start in reigning forever and ever. Just like 30AD was part of reigning for ever and ever. Just like that authority started before creation, as in for ever and ever.

 

[covenantee]

it also qualifies as a premillenial or dispensational event.

How is what happened in 66 AD a premillenial or dispensational event? Have premils and dispens converted to preterism?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

How is what happened in 66 AD a premillenial or dispensational event? Have premils and dispens converted to preterism?

what are you talking about?

in 66 AD the term preterism did not exist.

It is a historical event

All views believe it occured. so you can not say that the view only belongs to that one group

 

[Truth7t7]

My friend, You are the one doing this.

THEN (after these things)

language is clear. we can look at the language and see what is going on. I not only looked at rev 19 but I look at the first part of rev 20 and kept reading. so I do not pull something out of context.

You keep trying to tell me I am giving just my belief.

I am giving you the passage, and breaking it down. and trying to show you HOW I get that belief (by looking at the passage

your not giving me any reason to change that belief, you are giving me YOUR BELIEF..

so why are we continuing this?

Satan is "Currently" bound from "One Specific Purpose", And One Only?

"Deceive The Nations" To Battle

The Non-Literal 1,000 Years (Revelation) 20:1-6 Are Taking Place Now In The Lords Spiritual, And Will Cease At The Future Second Coming

If A Tribulation Saint Were To Die One Day Before The Second Coming, He Enters Into The Non-Literal 1,000 Year Reign

Many That Promote Millennialism Falsely Teach, Satan Cant Be Presently Bound Because Evil Exist In The World?

Satan Is Presently Bound As Is Clearly Seen In (Revelation) 20:7-8 Below That Interprets (Deceive The Nations) Is To Battle, Not General Evil In The World Presently.

Satan Is Loosed At The End Of The Tribulation When The 6th Vial Is Poured Out As Seen In (Revelation) 16:12, The Deception Is Devils In False Miracles Going Forth To The Kings Of The Earth, To Gather Them To The Final Battle

(Revelation) 20:1-9KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

(Revelation) 16:12-14 & (Revelation) 20:7-8 Same Deception In Gathering The Nations To The Very Same Final Battle In "Parallel" Teachings Of The Same Event

(Revelation) 16:12-17KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No

I am saying prophecy is not something we should spiritulize.

What does that even mean? Do you think there are no prophecies about spiritual things? What about Joel 2:28-32, which began to be fulfilled on the day of Pentecost (see Acts 2:16-21).

Prophecy is God foretelling future events.

Yes, and sometimes He does it with symbolism and sometimes it's literal.

If the event does not occure. Then the prophet is said to be a false prophet. And he is not from God.

Can an event not occur if it's described symbolically? I don't understand the way you think.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I am gonna be honest my friend. I do not see how you can read what I posted. what John said, and still continue to deny that these things happen at one period at the end.

rev 20: Then (OR AFTER THESE THINGS) I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

That just means he saw that vision after seeing the previous vision. That does not mean what he saw in that vision had to occur after what he had seen in the previous vision. If that's how it worked then we'd have to conclude that what he described in Revelation 12 followed what he described in Revelation 11 chronologically, but we know that Christ wasn't born after the seventh trumpet.