The difference in churches

[theefaith]

Jn 10:16 one shepherd one church

1 pet 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

Only Jesus Christ has authority to found the church Matt 16:18-19
All other are heretical sects the tradition of men!

 

[theefaith]

And I thought there is only one true church Jn 10:16 founded by Christ on Peter Matt 16:10-19

 

[marksman]

Hello Jay,

People can claim whatever they like, but if they have not been ordained by those in the Church with the authority to do so, their claim is empty.

Peace be with you!

As I read your comment the phrase "the blind leading the blind" came to mind. We all produce after our own kind and cross-pollination is not welcomed in most churches. They usually want people who speak the same language and do the same things. I have seen numerous ads for pastors who are approved by the denomination's headquarters. You may be one of the finest preachers in the country but if you are not one of us, too bad.

I had the fortune when I lived in the UK to be part of a church that authorized the priesthood of ALL believers. If someone said to the Elders I believe God is calling me to do this they gave him the go-ahead and any support he needed and allowed the ministry to prove itself if it was from God. In other words, the proof of the pudding was in the eating.

In a church in Australia, the pastor had gone through the denominations bible college and he was a complete disaster. They may have done a good job in teaching him the rules of the denomination but they never got to dealing with his horrible temper.

As I understand things, ordination comes from the Lord. If you haven't got that and a lot of pastors haven't, their ordination comes from a denomination (in some denominations you don't even have to be a Christian to lead) then you are nothing more than an empty vessel making the most sound.

 

[Alfredthefifth]

Hi John,
The Church is catholic and orthodox by definition.

If you are referring to particular churches:

There was a schism with the Bishop of Alexandria circa 400 AD and that church is known as the Coptic Orthodox..

There was another schism with the Patriarch of Constantinople circa 1050
That church and those bishops in union with him are often known as Eastern Orthodox.

The Bishop of Rome and those bishops in union with him continue to be recognized as the Catholic Church

As for the protestant church, I'll leave that to otheras to try and explain, but it is not a schism as they have no episcopal authority..

Peace be with you!

No episcopal authority?

Not all Christian church were formed by men out of nothing.

I know of at least three protestant church bodies that the trained pastors can show an unbroken line from THE CHURCH to president day.

Luther's reformation drew hundreds of catholic ordained priests out of the catholic church.

The Church of England was formed by the English Crown. Before the catholic priests were put to death they were given a choice to reform or die. The Episcopalian and Anglican Churches are off shoots of the Church of England. Churches that shook off the control off the Crown but still having a direct connection by laying on of the hands to Roman Catholic Church.

RCC holds that all these priests were Excommunicated so the the laying on off the hands was voided. But there are direct lines of blessed teachers, that despite Excommunication have no break in the chain of being trained in THE CHURCH.

I Have to be careful whether the pastor is turned out to do their thing or in a church congress that actively works to maintain true doctrine. There is a fifty fifty chance the pastor will be true or drifted way out of doctrine.
You can be in one church of a congress and have a very true priest and then go into a sister church of the congress or order and the priest is as good as a three dollar bill. Some congresses or orders are known for how loose they are with doctrine. While other orders are supposed to be more doctrinely sound.

There are what five or six flavors of Lutherans that range from strict doctrine to almost no doctrine at all. But even if you know the congress or synod letters for that congress you are liable to be surprised by how strong the church is or weak the church is.
I am sure this can be said of Methodist, Baptist or any og many other orders.
Judge the book or in the case the church by it's cover? they will surprise or disappoint.

My score is 3 maybe 4 good out of 15 maybe 16 known.
Only 20ish percent good, long odds to some.
But it is in God's hands at least to me. Listen for and to the Holy Spirit if you can

Alfredthefifth

 

[Philip James]

No episcopal authority?

Hello Alfred,

Thats correct. As far as I know the Lutherans never had a valid Bishop or bishops join them, thus they have no authority to ordain new bishops and priests..

The Anglicans are a different story as I believe there is some question as to whether valid bishops took part in the split as well as questions as to whether their ordinations are invalid even so..
I belive the Catholic Church ruled their ordinations invalid, but aside from that I would say that the deterioration in the Anglican Church over the last 40 years as they embrace the post-Christian culture that has arisen demonstrates that they do not have any authority

(and that is sad, I respect the effots the British people made to hold true to the Catholic faith that they had received, depspite their Kings actions.. )

And when the last 'defender of the Faith' passes (Charles has already indicated he will not take that title) what then will become of the Anglican Church?

Already many have joined the Catholic Church but retain their Anglican heritage.

Ordinariate Questions & Answers

Pax et Bonum

 

[theefaith]

Hello Alfred,

Thats correct. As far as I know the Lutherans never had a valid Bishop or bishops join them, thus they have no authority to ordain new bishops and priests..

The Anglicans are a different story as I believe there is some question as to whether valid bishops took part in the split as well as questions as to whether their ordinations are invalid even so..
I belive the Catholic Church ruled their ordinations invalid, but aside from that I would say that the deterioration in the Anglican Church over the last 40 years as they embrace the post-Christian culture that has arisen demonstrates that they do not have any authority

(and that is sad, I respect the effots the British people made to hold true to the Catholic faith that they had received, depspite their Kings actions.. )

And when the last 'defender of the Faith' passes (Charles has already indicated he will not take that title) what then will become of the Anglican Church?

Already many have joined the Catholic Church but retain their Anglican heritage.

Ordinariate Questions & Answers

Pax et Bonum

anglican rites were declared invalid by the great Pope Leo 13

 

[Alfredthefifth]

@Philip James @theefaith

At the year 1500 as far as THE CHURCH had drifted from the Gospel I have do wonder what validity of THE CHURCH was,is and shall ever be.

Jesus didn't give his disciples that he taught, to change anything in his teaching. Yet the POPE has changed it liberally.

I have to regard referrence to the CHURCH as the legal authority in all things spiritual as ludicrous.

Luther proved what a roaring devouring beast it had become.

The praying to saints ought to be proof enough!


Alfredthefifth

 

[theefaith]

@Philip James @theefaith

At the year 1500 as far as THE CHURCH had drifted from the Gospel I have do wonder what validity of THE CHURCH was,is and shall ever be.

Jesus didn't give his disciples that he taught, to change anything in his teaching. Yet the POPE has changed it liberally.

I have to regard referrence to the CHURCH as the legal authority in all things spiritual as ludicrous.

Luther proved what a roaring devouring beast it had become.

The praying to saints ought to be proof enough!


Alfredthefifth

anyone in the communion of saints are alive in Christ Jn 11:25 and pray and intercede for each other as there is need

Prayers and intercession of the saints!

Jesus Christ is the Head of the church Eph 5:23 the only mediator 1 Tim 2:5 and chief intercessor, makes intercession for the saints! (The church) Rom 8:26-27 8:34 heb 7:25

The saints also make intercession!

1 Timothy 2:1
I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

Revelation 5:8
And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

Revelation 8:3
And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

Revelation 8:4
And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

James 5:16 …The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

Jn 11:25 (the saints are alive) Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

All generations call me blessed! Lk 1:
Thanksgiving in praise of Mary for bearing our savior! Matt 1:23 And finding our salvation! Lk 1:30

Praise honor veneration and devotion redound to the Glory of God who created Mary immaculate Lk 1:49 as Christ source of all grace! Jn 1:16-17

Praise, honor, veneration, and devotion are not worship, worship requires intent!

Mary all powerful advocate!
Help of Christian’s!

Mary ever virgin, mother of God, is all powerful in her prayers!

Mary’s prayers are all powerful not cos she is God but because her son is God!

and on becoming man He (Jesus) obeyed his own commandments

you might check out the one that says “honor Thy father and mother”

“My hour has not come”

The time set by almighty God for the public ministry of Christ had not come, Jesus Christ still performed the miracle cos his mother interceded, thus a higher law, “honor thy father and mother” if ANYONE else asked it would NOT have been done!
John 2

and cos of her intercession the disciples believed in Him!
Jn 2:11





We should be grieved by the manifold sins of mankind that offend our God! If we love God!

make reparation and recompense as far as we can by prayer and sacrifice!

also not forgetting to pray for the conversion of sinners!

Eternal Father, I offer Thee the precious blood of Jesus!

Precious blood of Jesus, save us!

Jn 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 1:6
And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Tim 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:19
For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

1 pet 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

James 1:2-8
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing

James 5:16 the prayer of a righteous man avails much…

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

1 Peter 2:20
For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

Colossians 1:24
Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

Rev 5:8 the prayers of the saints…

 

[theefaith]

@Philip James @theefaith

At the year 1500 as far as THE CHURCH had drifted from the Gospel I have do wonder what validity of THE CHURCH was,is and shall ever be.

Jesus didn't give his disciples that he taught, to change anything in his teaching. Yet the POPE has changed it liberally.

I have to regard referrence to the CHURCH as the legal authority in all things spiritual as ludicrous.

Luther proved what a roaring devouring beast it had become.

The praying to saints ought to be proof enough!


Alfredthefifth

truth like Christ is immutable!

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.


Truth must be revealed by God, and in its fullness in the sacred deposit of faith by Christ to his church! Eph 4:5 Jude 1:3 and must be taught by the church, or proposed for our belief by the apostles!
Matt 28:19-20 Lk 1:4 Jn 20:21 acts 8:31 Rom 1:5 col 2:7 1 Tim 3:15
matt 18:17

Christ and His church are one! acts 9:4 Acts 5:32 Jn 15:1-5

Truth is immutable! Cannot change!

And same truths revealed by Christ and taught by the church are always believed and taught from the beginning when Christ taught his church in person! Jude 1:3 the faith once delivered to the saints or the deposit of faith eph 4:5 one faith!


Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13)

The evidence of true faith is humble subjection and obedience to Christ & His holy church!

The rule of faith for Christians is Jesus Christ Jn 14:6 and His church! Matt 18:17 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

True Christians cannot listen to the errors of excommunicated heretics, but we listen faithfully to Christ, in the bosom of holy mother church, the only ark of salvation!
1 pet 3:20-21 matt 18:17 matt 16:18-19 matt 28:19-20 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-23

Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13)

Christ and His church are one! (Acts 9:4 eph 5:31 Jn 15:1-5)

Rejection of the one true church or its teaching is rejection of Christ and God!

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 Jn 8:12 & Matt 5:14



God does not reveal His truth in a vacuum!

God does not set His true adrift on a sea of spiritual anarchy!

God sets His truth in His church, in the possession of His apostles to safeguard, to ensure it is not added to, or taken away from, or changed in any way!

And to teach the same truth to all nations and all ages!

Verified by scripture:

Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost!

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints!

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness!
(all scripture not 66 books alone)

Must be instructed in the faith:

Lk 1:4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations…

Jn 29:21-23 as the father sent me, so I send you. (Same mission, power, and authority to teach all nations)

Lk 10:16 He who hears you, (His apostles) hear me.

Jn 13:20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jn 8:32 You (the apostles) shall know the truth; and the truth shall make you free.

Jn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
(His apostles)


The whole purpose for the church of Jesus Christ is to teach all nations the truths revealed by Christ and the salvation of souls!

 

[Alfredthefifth]

Hello Alfred,

Thats correct. As far as I know the Lutherans never had a valid Bishop or bishops join them, thus they have no authority to ordain new bishops and priests..

The Anglicans are a different story as I believe there is some question as to whether valid bishops took part in the split as well as questions as to whether their ordinations are invalid even so..
I belive the Catholic Church ruled their ordinations invalid, but aside from that I would say that the deterioration in the Anglican Church over the last 40 years as they embrace the post-Christian culture that has arisen demonstrates that they do not have any authority

(and that is sad, I respect the effots the British people made to hold true to the Catholic faith that they had received, depspite their Kings actions.. )

And when the last 'defender of the Faith' passes (Charles has already indicated he will not take that title) what then will become of the Anglican Church?

Already many have joined the Catholic Church but retain their Anglican heritage.

Ordinariate Questions & Answers

Pax et Bonum

Somehow I never find BISHOPS in scripture it may be there, but it seems and has proven to proven at least in some sects to hold the members under earthly authority and not the authority of God!

Alfredthefifth

 

[ScottA]

What is the difference between the catholic church and the ortodox church? Also from which countries do those two churches come from? And where does the Protestant church come from? And how have all of these churches evolved? Please explain all of this and I await some replies.


kind regards John Stefan

Jesus purposed a choice in Matthew 16:13-19 for us either to follow Him in what comes from the Father in spirit, or to follow mere men. Read it carefully and understand.

The rest is mostly man made religion. Such is the abomination that makes desolation.

 

[theefaith]

Somehow I never find BISHOPS in scripture it may be there, but it seems and has proven to proven at least in some sects to hold the members under earthly authority and not the authority of God!

Alfredthefifth

acts 1:15-26
1 Tim 3:1-2
Phil 1:1
Titus 1:7

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 acts 1:8 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission as Christ! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!



1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.

This extends to the truth and to the church founded by Christ to teach all
men!

Cos Jesus Christ is the truth and cos His church is of divine origin, commissioned to teach the truth!

Christians must be taught and that requires humility! Lk 1:4 matt 28:19-20 matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 acts 2:42 acts 8:31

Teaching authority of the Apostles and their successors founded in the one true church by Jesus Christ!

Jesus Christ is the head of the church, (eph 5:23) the body of Christ,
(col 1:18) the new and eternal covenant, (pre-figured Jer 31:31) (Heb 8:8) new covenant replaces the Mosaic covenant, (Heb 8:13) holy mother church replaced Israel Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Christ replaces David as king, (Lk 1:32-33) Jesus Christ is the only mediator between God and men, (1 Tim 2:5 & Heb 12:24) but a mediator remains on earth mediating between God and His people, but Christ ascended to heaven, (acts 1) before He did He founded His church, on Peter, and the apostles, and their successors!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 2:42 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

Authority of the Apostles!

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission!

Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well until Christ returns in glory!

apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!

Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments for the forgiveness of sin.


The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20


The teaching of Peter and the apostles and successors is the teaching of Christ!

Authority in what they teach and not in a person in an office!

Jesus is not our salvation: only what He taught?

Lk 2:30 Matt 16:16 Jesus in His person is our salvation, not only in what He taught!
Matt 16:13 not what do people say about what I teach, but whom do people say the I am!

The teaching of the successors of Moses not their person?

The successors of Moses sit in the seat of Moses Matt 23:1

Peters confession not Peters person? Matt 16:18

You give the keys to a person not to a confession!

Acts 1:26 they choose Mathias not the teaching of Mathias!

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission as Christ! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

We must be taught by Peter, the apostles, and their successors! Lk 10:16 Matt 28:19 Jn 21:17 Jn 16:13 acts 2:42

Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Lk 1:4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

Acts 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

Col 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

Matthew 18:17
And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

It is a thing unthinkable! To refuse to hear the church is to refuse to hear Christ!
Christ and His church are one. Acts 9:4

Spiritual Fathers have care for our souls!

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!

Obedience of the faithful Christians or spiritual anarchy of the heretical fundamentalists!

 

[theefaith]

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9;4 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13) Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42
1 Tim 3:15

Fundamentalism drives a wedge between Christ and his church, separates Christ from His kingdom, and the authority of Christ from the new covenant!

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema

Extends to the truth and the church

Cos Christ is the truth and His church teaches the truth without error! Jn 14:6 matt 28:19 matt 18:17 1 Tim 3:15 Jn 29:21-23 Jn 16:13

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32

Authority of the Apostles!

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

 

[theefaith]

Scripture and Tradition constitutes the revealed word of God!

Large T Tradition means teaching not the other kind of tradition small t habits or customs

The teaching authority of Christ in His apostles and their successors through all time and place in His church He established on Peter!

The Rule of Faith!

What is the rule of faith for Christians, or the source of truth?

What is the pillar and ground of truth?

How do we know truth?

Where does it say the “Bible alone”?
Or that we are permitted to read it for ourselves and make our own doctrine?

Where does it say all revealed truths are found in scripture?


Christ is the rule of faith or source of truth for Christians!
Jn 14:6 Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life! The church is an extension of Christ 1 Tim 3:15 the church is the pillar and ground of truth!

Must be taught by Christ! Gal 1:2

What God has revealed by scripture and the church, the teaching authority of the apostles has proposed for our belief!

Christians must be instructed or taught!

A Christian must have humility and obedience of faith to be taught by Christ who is the way, the truth, and the life!
Jn 14:6

Verses of scripture signifying that we must be taught.

Lk 1:4
Matt 18:17
Matt 28:19

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4
The church is an extension of christ by which Christ perpetuates his mission, ministry, and teaching with His power and authority through all the world and all ages!

The private interpretation of the “Bible alone” does not and cannot and will not lead to a unity of faith! 2 Pet 1:20
eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: Jn 1:16-17 fullness of Christ!


The Bible does not say all truths revealed by God are found in the “Bible alone”! Or that the word of God is limited to the “Bible alone”!

Not the “Bible alone” acts 2:42
Not personal interpretation or experiences. 2 Pet 1:20

The authority of the apostles is required to know what is the scriptures and what is not, the church having wrote the New Testament by the authority of Christ the apostles determined what is scripture and the authentic interpretation there of!

Saint Jerome’s work of collecting the Bible and getting it approved did not happen until in 381 it was approved by the Pope, the valid successor of Peter having jurisdiction authority of the keys of the kingdom of heaven!

How did the church for almost four centuries live without the “Bible alone”?
The teaching authority of the apostles that’s how! The Bible’s is the Bible by the authority of the church, Christ’s authority given to His apostles!

Christ founded the church on Peter and the apostles to defend, to protect, and to teach “thee faith”

A fundamentalist is ruled by spiritual pride, self-righteous private judgement from scripture, or the humility to hear the teaching of Christ through the church of His apostles?
Obedience of faith: rom 16:26
We must be taught by Christ who is the way, the truth, and the life. Jn 14:6
Instructed: Lk 1:4 acts 8:31
Teach all nations: Matt 28:19
He who hears you (the apostles) hears me: lk 10:16
Hear the church: Matt 18:17
Church is the pillar and ground of truth: 1 Tim 3:14
Christ and his church are one, the church is an extension of Christ through the whole world and all time: acts 9:4

Not scripture plus private judgement

But guided by the teaching office of Christ and his church!

Without the teaching authority of the apostles you cannot know what is and what is not scripture!

Please explain how the church of Jesus Christ existed before the New Testament, the church taught and believed before the New Testament with the same authority of Christ!

Church of the apostles has the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21-23

The church wrote the New Testament, the church gathered the cannon of scripture, the church alone has authority to say what is, and what is not scripture and to give the authoritative interpretation or meaning of scripture!

Not spiritual pride & self-righteous private judgement!

Athanasius Creed!
(From the early church)

Whoever desires to be saved must above all hold to the catholic faith.

Anyone who does not keep it whole and entire will doubtless perish eternally.

What did Christ teach the apostles in the 40 days from His resurrection to His ascension?
What did he teach the two disciples on the road to Emmaus?
What was revealed to John the Baptist in Lk 3:2 the word of God came unto John, and did it come by the Bible alone?
Where does Christ command the New Testament to be written? The apostles having the authority of Christ chose to write scripture! Other apostles wrote nothing at all!
How does the eunuch know about baptism? Acts 8

Rule of faith cannot be the “Bible Alone” because we did not have a bible until 381 when the church of the apostles by the authority of Christ determined what was and what was not scripture! You only have a bible cos the church wrote one and cannonized it by the authority of Christ thru his apostles!

Could not read
The Bible itself points to authority granted by Christ
The Bible condemns person interpretation of scripture as opposed to the church of the apostles having the authority of Christ to interpret scripture

so how can the rule of faith be the “Bible alone” when it did not even exist until the church approved it in 381 by the authority of Christ in His apostles, what about the millions who could not read most could not read until the 20th century, and books including Bible were rare and very expensive all written by hand (mostly by monks who sacrificed their whole life to copy a bible) until the printing press, even then they were still expensive
What does a blind person do?

the Holy Spirit is guaranteed to the apostles Jn 16:13 they are to teach the nations Matt 28:19 Lk 1:4 acts 8

in acts 8 did the eunuch know about Christ and baptism from the scripture and the Holy Spirit? No God sent him and apostle


Acts 2:42 the held the doctrine of the apostles
Not the doctrine of the “Bible alone”!

if you believe the doctrine of the “Bible alone”, then there can be no other authority so scratch that verse out of your Bible! And many others that refer to the authority of the apostles!
Btw it’s only by the authority of the apostles that know what is and what is not scripture

Cannot summit to or obey any other authority accept the Bible alone
Even God, or Christ, or His church, or His apostles, or those who He sent and commanded to care for you’re soul!
The Bible is the only authority for a Protestant!

Where does the Bible say the rule of faith is the Bible alone?

the Bible was not assembled and approved until 381 by the apostles btw
Only the apostles said what is and what is not scripture.

What did Christians do in all those years without the “Bible alone”
until the advent of printing bibles were copied by hand and very rare and extremely expensive what did Christians do in those days
Most people were illiterate until the 20th century what did they do?
So you see the “Bible Alone” cannot be the rule of faith for Christians!
Instead we actually believe scripture and submit to and obey the apostles acts 2:42


Must be taught! Must be instructed by Christ!

Bible does not say to read and decide doctrine for you’re self!

Lk 1:1-4
1 Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,

2 Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;

3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,

4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

Acts 8 the eunuch had scripture but needed to be instructed by an apostle.

Acts 8:26 And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert.

27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,

28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.

29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.

30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:

33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.

34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?

35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

Taught by Christ thru His apostles!

Eph 4:20 But ye have not so learned Christ;

21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:

 

[theefaith]

Christ taught them and us thru the apostles.

Lk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

Not scripture alone, but what the prophets spoke! And Christ explaining the scriptures, and we also are disciples, Christ also opens the scripture to us thru His church by the teaching authority of the apostles!

The problem with the “Bible alone”!

You can easily see why the false doctrine of the “Bible alone” causes so many problems and why we can simply ignor creeds, councils, dogma, and decrees of the holy apostles teaching infallibility with the authority of Christ!

“Bible alone” is false doctrine
Negates the word of God, apostolic councils, creeds, cannons, decrees, dogma, and the teaching authority of the apostles!

The false doctrine of “the Bible Alone” is an attack on Christ and His holy church!
Christ and his church are one acts 9:4
To reject the church or church teaching is to reject Christ!

An attack on the holy church and her divine authority!

Even Christ who is the truth itself is excluded!

verses that refer to authority other than the “Bible Alone”!

Isa 22:21-22 Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Lk 1:32 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 Jn 21:17 Acts 1:17 acts 1:26 acts 2:42 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 20:28 eph 2:20 and too many more to mention!

The Bible alone is based on spiritual pride, self-righteous private judgement, and personal interpretation, and not truth revealed by God in Christ without error, thru the teaching authority of the apostles!

God, Christ, the HS, the church, the apostles cannot be any authority at all, only scripture
1st problem is that the church of the apostles says what is and what is not scripture!
The Bible comes from the teaching of the apostles!
Must hear the church according to Christ and scripture! Matt 18:17

Pillar and foundation of truth!
The church teaches the truth revealed by Christ with His authority in the apostles!
1 Tim 3:15

The church existed before the New Testament!
The church believed and taught before there was a New Testament!
The church exercised authority before there was a New Testament!
The authority of Christ thru His one true church wrote the New Testament!
The church founded by Christ on Peter has authority to:
Teach, Govern, And sanctify!



Scripture alone is not enough

Lk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

Acts 1:15 peter stood up and opened the scripture to them

acts 8 the eunuch had scripture God sent an apostle to teach him

Bible alone does not include you’re personal interpretation!

Bible alone

example: of the word of God not in the Bible alone!

Lk 3:2 Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.
Or
1 cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

these are divine revelation!
Inspired by the Holy Spirit!
And the word of God!

why do some only accept them after they are written down?

they are divine revelation and the inspired word of God when they were received, and when they were taught to the people, and when they were written down! Why only accept them in the written form or “Bible alone”???

Where does Christ or scripture say that all the divinely reveled truths are in scripture?
Where does Christ or scripture say what is and what is not scripture?

the Bible and human pride has produced spiritual anarchy and chaos 20000 heretical sects! The tradition of men!

 

[Matthias]

Was Jesus a Catholic?

This Catholic sources dances a fine line.

Was Jesus a Catholic?

 

[Matthias]

Another Catholic source.

“Q. A question about religion has always puzzled me: Jesus was a Jew; when did he become a Catholic? (Afton, Iowa)

A. You are right: Jesus was a Jew. … in the early years following the death of Christ, Christianity was viewed as a sect within Judaism. …

To answer your question as to when Jesus ‘became a Catholic,’ I would say never. He couldn’t have, in fact. …”

(Father Kenneth Doyle, “Was Jesus a Jew or a Catholic? Why no bells at Mass?”)

Was Jesus a Jew or a Catholic? Why no bells at Mass?

 

[Philip James]

Another Catholic source.

“Q. A question about religion has always puzzled me: Jesus was a Jew; when did he become a Catholic? (Afton, Iowa)

A. You are right: Jesus was a Jew. … in the early years following the death of Christ, Christianity was viewed as a sect within Judaism. …

To answer your question as to when Jesus ‘became a Catholic,’ I would say never. He couldn’t have, in fact. …”

(Father Kenneth Doyle, “Was Jesus a Jew or a Catholic? Why no bells at Mass?”)

Was Jesus a Jew or a Catholic? Why no bells at Mass?

In as much as the Church is One Body in Christ, and He our head, Jesus is Catholic by definition, being the One Church, Body and Head

Pax et Bonum

 

[Matthias]

In as much as the Church is One Body in Christ, and He our head, Jesus is Catholic by definition, being the One Church, Body and Head

Pax et Bonum

Thanks. I understand the logic of the argument.

Speaking as a Jewish monotheist, I don’t find it convincing.

That the Church began as a Jewish sect within Judaism is indisputable.

Church history documents the gradual movement of the Church away from Judaism.

 

[dev553344]

What is the difference between the catholic church and the ortodox church? Also from which countries do those two churches come from? And where does the Protestant church come from? And how have all of these churches evolved? Please explain all of this and I await some replies.


kind regards John Stefan

I think you might be interested in the true church of God. They have married clergy that help the poor and widows. Please read the following scripture which covers that: 1 Timothy 3:2-12