22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[Eternally Grateful]

Ugh! Why does communicating on here have to be so difficult? I don't get it.

Let me try to spell this out for you. You say that Isaiah 65:20 should be interpreted literally and should be applied to a future thousand year earthly kingdom of Christ, right? And you believe people will die during that time, right? Yet, verse 19 says there will be no more weeping or crying at that time. So, my question for you, again, is will people not mourn when people die during that time? This is a very straightforward question. Just a yes or no answer will suffice.

Chapter 23 says they will have children but not in trouble and there will be a sinner live to 100

How is their birth and sinners if it is heaven?..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Exactly, and repeatedly ignore the climactic biblical detail in Revelation 19 that shows that the second coming is the end of the world.

I may believe this, But rev 20 happens AFTER the events of 19

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes, I can and I have and I will continue to do so. Because, unlike you, I take the rest of scripture into account when interpreting it. You obviously start out interpreting Revelation 20 in isolation from the rest of scripture and then change the rest of scripture to fit your interpretation of Revelation 20.

I take the rest of scripture to account also.by friend.

Many OT prophets speak of a reign f christ on earth.

I do not need to change scripture at all..

But I would have to change much scripture to support your view.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

And no one will mourn for that person?

Isaiah 65:19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying. 20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

Why is a child dying in heaven?

 

[jeffweeder]

I may believe this, But rev 20 happens AFTER the events of 19

No it does not brother.
See post 1064.
PM is right about the second coming being the end of the world.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Why not? Will people not be human at that time? I'm not understanding your point here at all. It's completely ludicrous to think there would be any time when people wouldn't mourn their loved one's death.

Okay, so what I bolded is literal and what I underlined is not literal. Where death is mentioned it’s not literal and where tears are mentioned it’s literal, in fact it is SO literal that not one person will ever, ever cry a single tear, that’s how literal it is. Do I have that correct?

17 “See, I will create
new heavens and a new earth.
The former things will not be remembered,
nor will they come to mind.
18 But be glad and rejoice forever
in what I will create,
for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight
and its people a joy.
19 I will rejoice over Jerusalem
and take delight in my people;
the sound of weeping and of crying
will be heard in it no more.
20 “Never again will there be in it
an infant who lives but a few days,
or an old man who does not live out his years;
the one who dies at a hundred
will be thought a mere child;
the one who fails to reach a hundred
will be considered accursed.
21 They will build houses and dwell in them;
they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22 No longer will they build houses and others live in them,
or plant and others eat.
For as the days of a tree,
so will be the days of my people;
my chosen ones will long enjoy
the work of their hands.
23 They will not labor in vain,
nor will they bear children doomed to misfortune;
for they will be a people blessed by the Lord,
they and their descendants with them.
24 Before they call I will answer;
while they are still speaking I will hear.
25 The wolf and the lamb will feed together,
and the lion will eat straw like the ox,
and dust will be the serpent’s food.
They will neither harm nor destroy
on all my holy mountain,”
says the Lord.

 

[Truth7t7]

Pentecost was a literal event. Not a spiritual event.

Pentecost was a spiritual event "Holy Ghost" that manifested himself in a literal physical world through believers

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No it does not brother.
See post 1064.
PM is right about the second coming being the end of the world.

I would have to ignore a lot of OT prophecy concerning messianic rule to believe this my friend.

I can’t do this

 

[marks]

So, you have to resort to making a false accusation against me instead of addressing my points? That says a lot about you. You know darn well that no Christian believes "that God lacks the power or ability to fully restrain His creation", yet here you are accusing me of believing that.

Just go back over your answer to my posts, you should see what I see if you are looking objectively.

Much love!

 

[jeffweeder]

I would have to ignore a lot of OT prophecy concerning messianic rule to believe this my friend.

I can’t do this

Did you read the post I quoted you friend ?
You have to ignore NT discernment not to believe this. Why rely on your own discernment without Jesus opening your mind to understand the OT?
Please tell me what you think after you read it.
God bless.

 

[Truth7t7]

Because I am trying to understand your discussion on Is 65. When do you think those events take place?

You have been shown several times, Isaiah 65:17 represents the New Heaven and Earth, "Eternity"!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Did you read the post I quoted you friend ?
You have to ignore NT discernment not to believe this. Why rely on your own discernment without Jesus opening your mind to understand the OT?
Please tell me what you think after you read it.
God bless.

Did you comprehend what I was trying to say in the rest of my post?

I was pointing out that billions of people remain outside the camp of the saints during this future millennium.
They had a 1000 years to get right with God, with the Glorified Jesus And the Glorified camp of the saints present before them , but didnt commit.
A complete utter waste of time...which is why a future millennium will never happen...,

Today is the day of salvation through sanctification through the Spirit An FAITH in what we do not see. The appearing of Jesus brings nothing but Judgment for those who did not love truth so as to be saved .

2Thess 2

8 Then that lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will eliminate with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; 9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and false signs and wonders, 10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not accept the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

Stand Firm
13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brothers and sisters beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. 14 It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Lets back up to Pauls first Chapter as he lays the foundation for this simple truth...,


5 This is a plain indication of God’s righteous judgment so that you will be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you indeed are suffering. 6 For after all it is only right for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted, along with us, when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels 8 in flaming fire, dealing out retribution to those who do not know God, and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 These people will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified among His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—because our testimony to you was believed.

nothing in this post changes my view. It does not negate the physical kingdom of Messiah and the restoration of a nation spoken in the OT. I can not ignore those passages

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You have been shown several times, Isaiah 65:17 represents the New Heaven and Earth

Lol. You have babies being born, sinners living 100 years and are accursed.. THATS NOT HEAVEN.

You need to stop man, You keep saying you prove stuff you have not proven. You make yourself look bad..

The only people you have proven anything to is people who want to believe it is heaven.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Pentecost was a literal event. Not a spiritual event.

LOL. You just give the same response over and over and over again. Are you a real person or a bot?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Lol. You have babies being born, sinners living 100 years and are accursed.. THATS NOT HEAVEN.

You need to stop man, You keep saying you prove stuff you have not proven. You make yourself look bad..

The only people you have proven anything to is people who want to believe it is heaven.

You have people not mourning anyone's death during that time. So, LOL at you.

 

[WPM]

Okay, so what I bolded is literal and what I underlined is not literal. Where death is mentioned it’s not literal and where tears are mentioned it’s literal, in fact it is SO literal that not one person will ever, ever cry a single tear, that’s how literal it is. Do I have that correct?

17 “See, I will create
new heavens and a new earth.
The former things will not be remembered,
nor will they come to mind.
18 But be glad and rejoice forever
in what I will create,
for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight
and its people a joy.
19 I will rejoice over Jerusalem
and take delight in my people;
the sound of weeping and of crying
will be heard in it no more.
20 “Never again will there be in it
an infant who lives but a few days,
or an old man who does not live out his years;
the one who dies at a hundred
will be thought a mere child;
the one who fails to reach a hundred
will be considered accursed.
21 They will build houses and dwell in them;
they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22 No longer will they build houses and others live in them,
or plant and others eat.
For as the days of a tree,
so will be the days of my people;
my chosen ones will long enjoy
the work of their hands.
23 They will not labor in vain,
nor will they bear children doomed to misfortune;
for they will be a people blessed by the Lord,
they and their descendants with them.
24 Before they call I will answer;
while they are still speaking I will hear.
25 The wolf and the lamb will feed together,
and the lion will eat straw like the ox,
and dust will be the serpent’s food.
They will neither harm nor destroy
on all my holy mountain,”
says the Lord.

You refuse to address the watertight detail I presented to you re the Hebrew, obviously because it exposes your narrative. Yet you continue to relay what you have been taught.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You have people not mourning anyone's death during that time. So, LOL at you.

Of course not.

Because Israel has repented. And christ is ruling.

And it says their is no more weeping. Nothing about weeping over someone’s death, again you twist the word.

You still have babies BEING BORN, and sinners LIVING in the same time.

You laugh,, Yet you can;t see why I can not see it your way.. I do not see that as laughable

 

[jeffweeder]

nothing in this post changes my view. It does not negate the physical kingdom of Messiah and the restoration of a nation spoken in the OT. I can not ignore those passages

Good grief Man. God can only restore those who commit to the Lord Jesus ministry of reconciliation. The Gentiles are grafted into this. Its called the Holy nation a people belonging to God who fix their eyes on Jesus Christ and his new revelation.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Because I am trying to understand your discussion on Is 65. When do you think those events take place?

Are you paying attention? I obviously believe that it relates to the new heaven and new earth. You already knew that, right? And I believe that the new heavens and new earth are ushered in when Christ returns after the thousand years (and Satan's little season), which is what Peter indicated in 2 Peter 3:10-13.

 

[covenantee]

Lying about what?

From your post 886: "Josephus put the event into the historical record. Obviously he believed it happened."

You claimed this knowing full well that you could not provide supporting evidence.

That's what.