Was Jesus/Yeshua born with a Sin Nature?

[BeyondET]

Which one is correct?

MASORETIC ISAIAH 53:10

“Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.”

SEPTUAGINT ISAIAH 53:10

“The Lord is willing to cleanse him of the injury. If you make a sin offering, our soul will see long-lived offspring, and the Lord is willing to remove him from the difficulty of his soul.”

 

[face2face]

I tell you what, if you can come up with an Old Testament prophecy that says the Messiah would be the Son of God....then you will have something. But then if that were in the Old Testament, the Jews would not have rejected Yeshua.

Psalms 2:7 cmp Hebrews 1:5

 

[Grailhunter]

Ah I see the issue - you think because God Himself didn't come down and drive the nails it wasn't Him doing it?

No, I think there is a difference between doing it and allowing to be done.

The very moment Jesus was given life in Mary's womb he was crucified!

Hmmm? Crucified in the womb? Interesting belief.

Isaiah 53:12 So I (Yahweh) will assign him a portion with the multitudes, he will divide the spoils of victory with the powerful, because he willingly submitted to death and was numbered with the rebels, when he lifted up the sin of many and intervened on behalf of the rebels.”

Again you are referring to a verse that the Jews love and it points to a human. Yeshua was not interested in "spoils" This verse is referring to a victory by a human warlord king that would defeat their oppressors.

Christ understood it was his Fathers will for him to be crucified...it was His plan from the beginning.

This I agree with.

It's a sobbering picture really - Father and Son working together using the wicked hands of this world to fulfill all righteousness.

Again I agree. I am of the opinion that Satan did not know that Yeshua was the Son of God and thought He had won when Yeshua died on the cross....I am sure that it was a surprise when he realized that he was dealing with a full-fledged God.

 

[Grailhunter]

Who was it about? crush

Read the posts

 

[face2face]

Romans 8:1-3
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh,

You tell me what you think these verses mean?

God achieved something His Law couldn't do by raising up Jesus in the line of Adam and making him an offering for sin.

 

[BeyondET]

Read the posts

I did, you said it was about someone else who?

 

[face2face]

No, I think there is a difference between doing it and allowing to be done.



Hmmm? Crucified in the womb? Interesting belief.



Again you are referring to a verse that the Jews love and it points to a human. Yeshua was not interested in "spoils" This verse is referring to a victory by a human warlord king that would defeat their oppressors.



This I agree with.



Again I agree. I am of the opinion that Satan did not know that Yeshua was the Son of God and thought He had won when Yeshua died on the cross....I am sure that it was a surprise when he realized that he was dealing with a full-fledged God.

Christ was being crucified every day...Luke 12:50
Dont you know what his baptism was?

 

[BeyondET]

The term crush....is about someone else, crush is not crucified.

Maybe you didn't mean to say the term crush is about someone else not sure?

 

[face2face]

Again you are referring to a verse that the Jews love and it points to a human. Yeshua was not interested in "spoils" This verse is referring to a victory by a human warlord king that would defeat their oppressors.

You are referring to its first reading and not its prophetical import...look further... deeper into the sacrifice of Christ and you will see the spoils!

 

[face2face]

I tell you what, if you can come up with an Old Testament prophecy that says the Messiah would be the Son of God....then you will have something. But then if that were in the Old Testament, the Jews would not have rejected Yeshua.

Psalms 8:6 cmp Hebrews 2:7

 

[face2face]

Psalms 2:7 cmp Hebrews 1:5

@Grailhunter

in Acts of the Apostles 13:32–34 to the historical fact of the resurrection of Christ, teaching that by raising Christ from the dead God truly demonstrated that Jesus was his Son.

 

[face2face]

@Grailhunter

Hebrews 10:10:

"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of THE BODY of Jesus Christ once for all"

Who prepared the body for a sacrifice?

The Romans?
The Jews?

 

[Grailhunter]

Psalms 2:7 cmp Hebrews 1:5

I like this.

Read the psalm verse in context.....the human messiah was told to be a king.
Hebrews says what it says.

 

[face2face]

I like this.

Read the psalm verse in context.....the human messiah was told to be a king.
Hebrews says what it says.

We could look at Abraham and Isaac - no doubt the greatest example of God in type offering Jesus as a sacrifice for sin.
Even the way the covenants were confirmed by the slaying of an animal sacrifice all pointed to Christ being offered up for the sins of the world.
God's righteousness declared in a covenant victim!

 

[Grailhunter]

I did, you said it was about someone else who?

It is referring to a human warlord king that would be the Jewish messiah.
Understand that the Jews believed that Elijah was senior to the messiah, that was why Elijah was to introduce the messiah.
If the Jews knew that the Messiah would be the Son of God they would not have rejected Him.

 

[Grailhunter]

Christ was being crucified every day...Luke 12:50
Dont you know what his baptism was?

Crucified everyday?
What do you mean what His baptism was?

 

[Grailhunter]

You are referring to its first reading and not its prophetical import...look further... deeper into the sacrifice of Christ and you will see the spoils!

Spoils....do not think so.

 

[Grailhunter]

@Grailhunter

in Acts of the Apostles 13:32–34 to the historical fact of the resurrection of Christ, teaching that by raising Christ from the dead God truly demonstrated that Jesus was his Son.

Yeshua is the Son of God.

 

[Grailhunter]

Psalms 2:7 cmp Hebrews 1:5

I like this.

Read the psalm verse in context.....the human messiah was told to be a king

 

[Grailhunter]

Maybe you didn't mean to say the term crush is about someone else not sure?

Not sure where you are going with that.
The verse about crush is referring to a human.