Was Jesus/Yeshua born with a Sin Nature?

[Grailhunter]

...with the discipline of a Son of God (for correction)

No I got it right in one.
Most definitely the Son of God and most definitely a full fledged God....
But there still few thing He was called....Lamb of God....Immanuel....Emmanuel.....Messiah....Savior....Yeshua.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Spirit has to do with character and soul speaks to the life of a person - an animal has a soul...a soul can die etc.

You are speaking in human terms, not spiritual terms. You must be filled with the Spirit in order to understand the things of the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 2:9-16
9 But as it is written:

“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”

10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.

13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

Read over your response and tell me why you avoided all the Scriptures that speak of Christ having our nature?

You make this statement without the scriptures. You must know them by heart, so I'm not going to hunt for them through 19 pages...

 

[Grailhunter]

Okay so you say Yahweh didn't crucify His Son?
Are you sure about that?

Yeap!

 

[face2face]

No I got it right in one.
Most definitely the Son of God and most definitely a full fledged God....
But there still few thing He was called....Lamb of God....Immanuel....Emmanuel.....Messiah....Savior....Yeshua.

It's forced isn't it?
Try understanding him first as the Son of Man - its there you will find the Messiah.

 

[face2face]

Yeap!

View attachment 25229

So what do you need to improve this understanding?
How many verses?
Does Isaiah 53:10 work for you?
It pleased Yahweh to crush him?
Do you know why it pleased his Father?

 

[face2face]

You are speaking in human terms, not spiritual terms. You must be filled with the Spirit in order to understand the things of the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 2:9-16
9 But as it is written:

“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”

10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.

13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.



You make this statement without the scriptures. You must know them by heart, so I'm not going to hunt for them through 19 pages...

True, so why dont you and your Spirit speak to the true nature of Christ?
I'm all ears.

 

[Grailhunter]

So what do you need to improve this understanding?
How many verses?
Does Isaiah 53:10 work for you?
It pleased Yahweh to crush him?
Do you know why it pleased his Father?

Yet it pleased Jehovah to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see [his] seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of Jehovah shall prosper in his hand.

But the LORD was pleased To crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand.

No thing to say that this verse is speaking of the Son of God....
The Jews like this verse because they believed that the Messiah would be a human warlord king and of course like any Jew that God would bless, he would have many children and prosper in many ways. The Bible does not indicate that Yeshua had children nor was He interested in prospering.

Nice try!

Glad you noticed that there can be no "J's" in the Bible.

 

[face2face]

Yet it pleased Jehovah to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see [his] seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of Jehovah shall prosper in his hand.

But the LORD was pleased To crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand.

No thing to say that this verse is speaking of the Son of God....
The Jews like this verse because they believed that the Messiah would be a human warlord king and of course like any Jew that God would bless, he would have many children and prosper in many ways. The Bible does not indicate that Yeshua had children nor was He interested in prospering.

Nice try!

Glad you noticed that there can be no "J's" in the Bible.

You didnt bother to answer the question?
Why did it please Yahweh to crush His Son?
The answer is in the verse!

 

[face2face]

Yet it pleased Jehovah to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see [his] seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of Jehovah shall prosper in his hand.

But the LORD was pleased To crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand.

No thing to say that this verse is speaking of the Son of God....
The Jews like this verse because they believed that the Messiah would be a human warlord king and of course like any Jew that God would bless, he would have many children and prosper in many ways. The Bible does not indicate that Yeshua had children nor was He interested in prospering.

Nice try!

Glad you noticed that there can be no "J's" in the Bible.

Let's try Matthew 26:39
Was it God's Will he drink the cup of suffering?

 

[face2face]

Yet it pleased Jehovah to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see [his] seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of Jehovah shall prosper in his hand.

But the LORD was pleased To crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand.

No thing to say that this verse is speaking of the Son of God....
The Jews like this verse because they believed that the Messiah would be a human warlord king and of course like any Jew that God would bless, he would have many children and prosper in many ways. The Bible does not indicate that Yeshua had children nor was He interested in prospering.

Nice try!

Glad you noticed that there can be no "J's" in the Bible.

Genesis 22:8
Did God eventually provide a sacrifice?...to take away the sins of the World?

 

[face2face]

Yet it pleased Jehovah to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see [his] seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of Jehovah shall prosper in his hand.

But the LORD was pleased To crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand.

No thing to say that this verse is speaking of the Son of God....
The Jews like this verse because they believed that the Messiah would be a human warlord king and of course like any Jew that God would bless, he would have many children and prosper in many ways. The Bible does not indicate that Yeshua had children nor was He interested in prospering.

Nice try!

Glad you noticed that there can be no "J's" in the Bible.

Revelation 13:8; John 1:36; 1 Peter 1:19
Who slayed the Lamb from the Foundation of the World?
Only One - Yahweh is His name.
So many verses!

 

[Grailhunter]

You didnt bother to answer the question?
Why did it please Yahweh to crush His Son?
The answer is in the verse!

I didn't have to....Yahweh did not crush His Son. The verse is not about Yeshua.

 

[face2face]

I didn't have to....Yahweh did not crush His Son. The verse is not about Yeshua.

LOL are you kidding! You must be trolling me!
7 NT quotations linking Isaiah 53 to the Sacrifice of Christ
Matthew 8:14-17; John 12:37-41; Luke 22:35-38; 1 Peter 2:19-25; Acts of the Apostles 8:26-35; Romans 10:11-21.
Wow I've seen denial before but that's next level.

 

[Grailhunter]

Let's try Matthew 26:39
Was it God's Will he drink the cup of suffering?

That is true. But Yahweh did not nail Him to the cross. Allowing Him to be crucified is a lot different than He actually doing it.
The term crush....is about someone else, crush is not crucified. A prophecy about Yeshua would include the word crucify...don't you think that Yahweh would know that?

 

[BeyondET]

That is true. But Yahweh did not nail Him to the cross. Allowing Him to be crucified is a lot different than He actually doing it.
The term crush....is about someone else, crush is not crucified. A prophecy about Yeshua would include the word crucify...don't you think that Yahweh would know that?

Who was it about? crush

 

[face2face]

That is true. But Yahweh did not nail Him to the cross. Allowing Him to be crucified is a lot different than He actually doing it.
The term crush....is about someone else, crush is not crucified. A prophecy about Yeshua would include the word crucify...don't you think that Yahweh would know that?

Absolutely! His plan from before the World was...dont you understand why? Clearly you dont.
I mean what do you think Romans 8:1-3 is teaching?
God orchestrated every event in bring Christ to the cross to be a sacrifice for the forgiveness of your sins. To make a demonstration of the weakness of the flesh - a banner for all mankind to see that the flesh is only worthy of death!

 

[face2face]

God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son...you can finish that in your own mind!

 

[Grailhunter]

LOL are you kidding! You must be trolling me!
7 NT quotations linking Isaiah 53 to the Sacrifice of Christ
Matthew 8:14-17; John 12:37-41; Luke 22:35-38; 1 Peter 2:19-25; Acts of the Apostles 8:26-35; Romans 10:11-21.
Wow I've seen denial before but that's next level.

I tell you what, if you can come up with an Old Testament prophecy that says the Messiah would be the Son of God....then you will have something. But then if that were in the Old Testament, the Jews would not have rejected Yeshua.

 

[Grailhunter]

Absolutely! His plan from before the World was...dont you understand why? Clearly you dont.
I mean what do you think Romans 8:1-3 is teaching?
God orchestrated every event in bring Christ to the cross to be a sacrifice for the forgiveness of your sins. To make a demonstration of the weakness of the flesh - a banner for all mankind to see that the flesh is only worthy of death!

Romans 8:1-3
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh,

You tell me what you think these verses mean?

 

[face2face]

That is true. But Yahweh did not nail Him to the cross. Allowing Him to be crucified is a lot different than He actually doing it.
The term crush....is about someone else, crush is not crucified. A prophecy about Yeshua would include the word crucify...don't you think that Yahweh would know that?

Ah I see the issue - you think because God Himself didn't come down and drive the nails it wasn't Him doing it?
The very moment Jesus was given life in Mary's womb he was crucified!
Both Father and Son working together to a glorious end.

Isaiah 53:12 So I (Yahweh) will assign him a portion with the multitudes, he will divide the spoils of victory with the powerful, because he willingly submitted to death and was numbered with the rebels, when he lifted up the sin of many and intervened on behalf of the rebels.”

Christ understood it was his Fathers will for him to be crucified...it was His plan from the beginning.

It's a sobbering picture really - Father and Son working together using the wicked hands of this world to fulfill all righteousness.

Forever grateful!