22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[jeffweeder]

The "other sheep" could not have been the church.

The other sheep belonged to the Gentile nations and tribes.
Those of Israel who believed in Jesus became his sheep.
Upon Peter's rock solid confession , Jesus would build his Church.
The mystery kept hidden was about how the Jews and Gentiles would be incorporated into Gods household as one body.

1. Galatians 6:10
   So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith.
   
   
2. Ephesians 2:14 -22
   14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, 16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were far away, and peace to those who were near; 18 for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.

Act 9
15 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel; 16 for I will show him how much he must suffer for My name’s sake.


Eph 3
3 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles— 2 if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God’s grace which was given to me for you; 3 that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief.
( see chap 1 )

4 By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit; 6 to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel, 7 of which I was made a minister, according to the gift of God’s grace which was given to me according to the working of His power. 8 To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ, 9 and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things; 10 so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places. 11 This was in accordance with the eternal purpose which He carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord, 12 in whom we have boldness and confident access through faith in Him.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Whether Jesus knew or not is irrelevant. Even if he did know he would have kept it a secret. He certainly would not have told it to anyone else Paul would be a liar.

The "other sheep" could not have been the church. There will be plenty of Gentiles admitted into paradise. Remember the malefactor whom Jesus said would be in paradise with him? The church was a secret.

The other sheep are Gentiles. Jew and Gentile believers together are the church. So, Jesus was subtly referring to the church there when He talked about his Israelite sheep and His other sheep (Gentile believers) that He was going to bring into the one fold together. He knew no one would understand what He was talking about until Paul spelled it out, though.

You are confusing similar passages, making them identical. That is highly believable. What is unbelievable is your refusing to accept the simple truth despite clear cut evidence that your present beliefs are just wrong.

LOL. And, yet, you are completely incapable of proving that. I find your arguments to be extremely weak.

Well I do know that Paul said the Father is the one true God. Jesus himself said his Father is the one true God. If we accept that as true and we accept that Jesus is the son of God, then it would naturally follow that he in fact would not have known the mystery. Only God knew it. What is so hard to comprehend about that? The only impediment I can see is tradition.

This is concerning. Are you not acknowledging that Jesus is God? Are you a Mormon or something like that?

Better look elsewhere for who Jesus meant by the Gentiles. One thing is for sure, he wasn't talking about the church. The church was a secret when Jesus was here! That can't be wished away.

Do you think your arguments are convincing? I sure don't think so. Not even close. Scripture simply does not teach that Jesus will be descending from heaven multiple times in the future. That's a made up story. So, you need to adjust your beliefs accordingly. Once He descends from heaven He is going to take care of business and not leave anything undone for a later time. That is what scripture clearly teaches repeatedly.

It could change because of humility? I think so.

Are you saying you think you are more humble than me? As if that's something you could possibly know when you don't really know me at all.

 

[covenantee]

Doesn't matter they were the children of Jacob and Abraham and the chosen people. No one says they had to be ethnically pure or some such nonsense. That does not take away from the fact they were and are Israel.

The strangers were not the genetic children of Abraham. So by what other criteria were they chosen people?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

When did you think He would start reigning, BEFORE He returned??!

Why is that so hard for you to believe? Do you not think He reigns now? Is He not your king now? How do you interpret passages like these:

Matthew 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Ephesians 1:19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is the same as the mighty strength 20 he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.

Colossians 1:12 and giving joyful thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of his holy people in the kingdom of light. 13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

 

[dad]

The strangers were not the genetic children of Abraham. So by what other criteria were they chosen people?

If they became part of the people of course. Why strain at nats?

 

[dad]

Why is that so hard for you to believe? Do you not think He reigns now?

Obviously He is not reigning on earth as He is in heaven now. Ever heard of the Lord's prayer?

Is He not your king now?

We are not of this world. He is not their king now.

 

[covenantee]

If they became part of the people of course. Why strain at nats?

God slew Israelites like Korah and his followers by the thousands. Why did He treat His chosen people that way?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Obviously He is not reigning on earth as He is in heaven now. Ever heard of the Lord's prayer?

Why would He reign on earth? His kingdom is not of this world (John 18:36) and does not come with observation (Luke 17:20). Why are you trying to change the nature of His kingdom? When He returns at the end of the age He will deliver His kingdom to the Father (1 Cor 15:22-28) at which point believers "will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father" (Matthew 13:40-43).

We are not of this world. He is not their king now.

He is not whose king now? I asked you if He is your king now. Yes or no?

 

[jeffweeder]

Well I do know that Paul said the Father is the one true God. Jesus himself said his Father is the one true God. If we accept that as true and we accept that Jesus is the son of God, then it would naturally follow that he in fact would not have known the mystery. Only God knew it.

Jn 5
18 For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.

19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner. 20 For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself is doing; and the Father will show Him greater works than these, so that you will marvel. 21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes. 22 For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, 23 so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

Rev 1
He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.

8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

12 Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands; 13 and in the middle of the lampstands I saw one like a son of man, clothed in a robe reaching to the feet, and girded across His chest with a golden sash. 14 His head and His hair were white like white wool, like snow; and His eyes were like a flame of fire. 15 His feet were like burnished bronze, when it has been made to glow in a furnace, and His voice was like the sound of many waters. 16 In His right hand He held seven stars, and out of His mouth came a sharp two-edged sword; and His face was like the sun shining in its strength.

17 When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. And He placed His right hand on me, saying, “Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, 18 and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.


Rev 22
12 “Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”

14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city.

Matt 16
27 For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds.

Tit 2
1 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, 12 instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, 14 who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.

The Father and the Son together always equals THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY

 

[dad]

God slew Israelites like Korah and his followers by the thousands. Why did He treat His chosen people that way?

The ones who have their heart right are His people. When He fulfills His promises for Israel it will be to the remnant who are right with Him.

 

[dad]

Why would He reign on earth? His kingdom is not of this world (John 18:36) and does not come with observation (Luke 17:20). Why are you trying to change the nature of His kingdom?

It is now not of this world, when He takes over it obviously will be on this world.

When He returns at the end of the age He will deliver His kingdom to the Father (1 Cor 15:22-28) at which point believers "will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father" (Matthew 13:40-43).

That seems to be after the 1000 years.

He is not whose king now? I asked you if He is your king now. Yes or no?

He is not the king of the world now. He is our king.

 

[Truth7t7]

It is now not of this world, when He takes over it obviously will be on this world.
That seems to be after the 1000 years.
He is not the king of the world now. He is our king.

No such thing as a 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom on this earth found in scripture, its man's fabricated fairy tale

 

[covenantee]

The ones who have their heart right are His people.

Absolutely true.

When He fulfills His promises for Israel it will be to the remnant who are right with Him.

But the remnant, who were and are the election saved by grace (Romans 11:5), know that the promises and blessings for them were and are fulfilled in Christ, at His first coming.

Galatians 3:16
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:20
For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Ephesians 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

 

[dad]

No such thing as a 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom on this earth found in scripture, its man's fabricated fairy tale

The truth will be turned to fairy tales for some. Sorry to see you don't know the difference.

 

[dad]

But the remnant, who were and are the election saved by grace (Romans 11:5), know that the promises and blessings for them were and are fulfilled in Christ, at His first coming.

Galatians 3:16
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

So the remnant includes ALL ISRAEL in the end also. Yes, through Christ!

2 Corinthians 1:20
For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Including the ones to Israel.
So the remnant is not limited to Jews saved already. It includes all Israel (those one fifth or whatever number it is that are left alive in that time) who will accept Jesus in the end.

 

[covenantee]

So the remnant includes ALL ISRAEL in the end also. Yes, through Christ!

Including the ones to Israel.
So the remnant is not limited to Jews saved already. It includes all Israel (those one fifth or whatever number it is that are left alive in that time) who will accept Jesus in the end.

Where did Jesus or the apostles say that there are still unfulfilled promises to Israel?

 

[Keraz]

Where did Jesus or the apostles say that there are still unfulfilled promises to Israel?

The Promises and Blessings of God go only to His individual faithful peoples.
An entity such as the Jewish State of Israel has no claim to any of it. To simply call a nation Israel, in no way makes it the chosen of God.

The true Israelite peoples are those who Overcome for God; as that name literally means.

 

[Truth7t7]

So the remnant includes ALL ISRAEL in the end also. Yes, through Christ!

Including the ones to Israel.
So the remnant is not limited to Jews saved already. It includes all Israel (those one fifth or whatever number it is that are left alive in that time) who will accept Jesus in the end.

The Church is the "Israel" of God, children of the promised seed

"All Israel" will be saved when the last soul is saved, and added to the Church on earth

Romans 9:6-8KJV
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

 

[Rich R]

This is concerning. Are you not acknowledging that Jesus is God? Are you a Mormon or something like that?

No Mormon, JW, or any thing like that. I just read 1 Cor 8:6 and John 17:3 and take them to say that the only true God is the Father. Is Jesus the Father? No. Then he's not the one true God.

 

[dad]

Where did Jesus or the apostles say that there are still unfulfilled promises to Israel?

Where did they suggest there were no OT promises? When did they suggest that if there were God would break His word? Where does the New Testament say that the prophesies of the OT are all worthless? Did Paul claim God would not restore Israel one day? Does Revelation not tell us Jesus will return to Israel and rule with us from there? Did Jesus tell us that there would be no time of Jacob's trouble after all?