7 Churches as Personality Types

[David Boyer]

This would be your homework, then, to read these letters, slowly, repeatedly, until you have such a facile understanding that you can freely recognize yourself in each of them, whichever applies, as we do in fact change, and sometimes dramatically, and sometimes daily, and and there is spirit, and there is flesh, and we need ALL of the Bible the divide between these.

Much love!

First off, tmyour post is one I can appreciate and deal with. So I will (with a bit of caution) welcome it. It is true that the Church age theory works with the western Churches. Let's quickly define that as westen Europe and the America's. Even so, I do believe it touches Eastern Europe as well as well as far western Asia.

But that's where it was going. While the Apostles are rumored to carry the gospel as far as India, we don't hear of it in the Bible. Nor did it make a major impact when it did spread to Eastern Asia.

So the notion you make that it only works in the west proves that it does work. Simply because that's where the action was.


Well for someone who doesn't know much about them, you sure did bring them up alot. We shouldn't forget them though. I don't get the beer commercial reference either.

Neither do I. Revelations was written to God's servants. It says so in Ch 1. Furthermore, there were not 7 letters to 7 Churches. It never says that. John was told to write to the ANGELS of each Church. But it was never 7 separate letters, but one letter to God's servants.

I don't agree with you that history lesson cheapens the book. An Incredible history lesson is given in Ch 12, but many fail to see it. The book of kings, Samuel and Chronicles are history. The Gospels tell a history of Jesus. Genesis is history, as is Exodus. Revelation is no different. It's telling us a history while also laying down some teaching.


It's what we should've been doing all along. Unfortunately, it'll have to wait. But one thing is that all these churches had strong points and faults until you get to Leodicea. Are they character traits of Churches, or of people? I think both. Thus I like you theory, but also the Church age theory.

We will talk later.

Sorry if this gets strange, but I am reading your post from bottom to top and responding that way. Sorry, but it is getting late.

Lets say I find reducing the letters to a history lesson cheapens Revelation. That would clarity my thoughts.

One letter, yes we agree. So my question centres around the application. Because it is in apocalyptic style it would logical follow that an interpretation is that the letters are specific instruction for the apocalypse. That is my stance. They are definitely useful for teaching and such... but because of their placement if the narrative if follows that the are instructive in the broader narrative. ie. in an end-time story giving advise for the end-times.

Others keep bringing up the church ages theory and that does not work for all churches. There may be some instructional value in it, but to a persecuted Chinese church the idea of being in a lukewarm phase would be quite insulting (but that is just personal conjecture). Maybe my way of phrasing it looked like I had a particular axe to grind.

"I am Canadian" was a very famous line from a beer commercial... Canadian Beer is the name. I'm an old dad and these are my old dad jokes. A danger of getting old.

"That's were the action is" is a bit insulting to the USSR church, China church, churches in Islamic states. They went through a lot more action then the "West" did.

 

[BeyondET]

Personalities change only slowly over time (for the most part). So one would stand out at this time for an honest seeker of God.
Did you do the homework? Try reading Rev 2+3 with an open heart to hear from God then get back to me... if you want.

A personality can change from a experience over night, war is just one example the list is probably long.

 

[BeyondET]

Of course!

And what usefulness is there in pidgeonholing ourselves as if we are one thing? This goes so much deeper than that. Are we going to declare "I'm Philedelphian, so none of the other stuff applies to me"? Is that what we're supposed to do?

He who has an ear, let him hear!

Much love!

Hmm yeah you got a point, I wonder scripture does talk about the body, arms,legs,lower torso,upper torso, head, does any of that be similar to churches or just the opposite or left field?

 

[BeyondET]

In the beginning there was two with one personality good then a fruit changed everything the world's atrocities man wasn't created for such things that can change a person in blink of an eye.

 

[David Boyer]

A personality can change from a experience over night, war is just one example the list is probably long.

Yes, as I said, for the most part. That was included in the parenthetical statement. Not an every day occurrence though.

 

[Davy]

Contrast to "the Church one is in today" is that referring to a denomination or local congregation?

It means where one attends. If the Church one attends aligns with the 2 Churches Jesus had no problem with, then those will have a deeper understanding of certain matters which helps prevent the problems the other Churches had, (remember the parable of the sower. What prevented the producing of much fruit per that parable.)

If that is your meaning then fine. So stay where you are and endure so you get the rewards promised. How do the rewards work if it is a local congregation? Which church is the Catholic, Anglican, Baptist, Mennonite? So a Catholic can't receive the reward promised to a different church? What if that other reward is what their heart truly desires(in all righteousness), but there is no Pentecostal church in their area?

If one desires to stay in the Church they are in, regardless of some obvious problems, then maybe one is called to help that Church (if they are able). Lord Jesus didn't have rebuke for everyone in certain Churches per His Messages. I just know that if I go to a Church, and they're preaching idol worship and doing abominations, I'm leaving and never going back to that one, because those are signs of a beth-aven (house of vanity).

Two churches without rebuke.... yeah maybe.
You mean Smyrna, which is to suffer, imprisoned, and die after 10 days. Not a rebuke, but scant comfort. A blueprint... if you are not suffering, imprisoned, or live more than 10 days you are out of the will of God? Sounds like a nasty pattern Jesus has set for that church. (Rev 2:8-11)

The Churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia represent the two candlesticks of the Book of Revelation that will have a Testimony for Jesus during the coming great tribulation. So your idea of a "nasty pattern" is like a curse or something. It simply means they are in the thick of the battle against Satan and his host, and definitely represent Christ's very elect, and cannot be deceived.

While many brethren think the coming "great tribulation" is going to be all out war and chaos, those will be deceived by the coming pseudo-Christ who will create an end of all wars, and bring a time of peace and safety upon the earth, with the deceived thinking he is Christ having returned. Many brethren will be deceived by that fake Messiah that comes first, for it won't be our Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus comes after that false one. So you tell me, what's a worse suffering, to love Lord Jesus but be deceived by the false Messiah, and when Jesus does come, one's shame is revealed? or to suffer for the coming tribulation by making a stand for Jesus, and be rewarded when He comes to find we have waited for Him?

How about Philadelphia... The week church. They have little strength and need to be told that the door is open, and they need the encouragement that the door will not be shut. Small faith, but enduring faith. Mustard seed faith because all they have done is kept His word and not denied His name. Only two actions that are the very least that a disciple would do. No great works. No great preaching. Just enduring. And the reward is to be removed before trial. Not raptured, but the more pedestrian way to the other side, death. And the blueprint... just hold on a little longer so someone doesn't steal your reward. Hang on by your fingernails if you have to but endure.

They do not represent a weak Church at all. When Jesus told them He is going to make the false Jews of the "synagogue of Satan" to come worship at their feet (future "thousand years"), that means Philadelphia too is in the thick of the battle against Satan and his host for this present world. That is something both Smyrna and Philadelphia have in common which none of the other Churches had, per Christ's 7 Messages. And when Jesus pointed to the 'key of David', and then told them He set an open door before them that no man can shut, it means they have been given that 'key of David' also.

My wife and I differ in the Rev Churches we "identify"/belong to. We both have reasons why we are encouraged. I encourage you to read the churches with a mind to which one you identify with. Does the admonishment cut your heart? Does the reward stir you to joy? It's just 2 chapters, please give it a read with the idea that it is personal in mind.

Those 7 Messages should be studied based on what Lord Jesus taught, as witnessed by His Apostles per His Word. It's not something that we should use our 'emotions' to measure by. The downfall of the 5 Churches that Lord Jesus had rebuke for showed they were busy with the things of this world, and were not in the thick of the battle against Satan. This is why they had nothing in their Messages about the "synagogue of Satan".

 

[David Boyer]

It means where one attends. If the Church one attends aligns with the 2 Churches Jesus had no problem with, then those will have a deeper understanding of certain matters which helps prevent the problems the other Churches had, (remember the parable of the sower. What prevented the producing of much fruit per that parable.)



If one desires to stay in the Church they are in, regardless of some obvious problems, then maybe one is called to help that Church (if they are able). Lord Jesus didn't have rebuke for everyone in certain Churches per His Messages. I just know that if I go to a Church, and they're preaching idol worship and doing abominations, I'm leaving and never going back to that one, because those are signs of a beth-aven (house of vanity).




The Churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia represent the two candlesticks of the Book of Revelation that will have a Testimony for Jesus during the coming great tribulation. So your idea of a "nasty pattern" is like a curse or something. It simply means they are in the thick of the battle against Satan and his host, and definitely represent Christ's very elect, and cannot be deceived.

While many brethren think the coming "great tribulation" is going to be all out war and chaos, those will be deceived by the coming pseudo-Christ who will create an end of all wars, and bring a time of peace and safety upon the earth, with the deceived thinking he is Christ having returned. Many brethren will be deceived by that fake Messiah that comes first, for it won't be our Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus comes after that false one. So you tell me, what's a worse suffering, to love Lord Jesus but be deceived by the false Messiah, and when Jesus does come, one's shame is revealed? or to suffer for the coming tribulation by making a stand for Jesus, and be rewarded when He comes to find we have waited for Him?




They do not represent a weak Church at all. When Jesus told them He is going to make the false Jews of the "synagogue of Satan" to come worship at their feet (future "thousand years"), that means Philadelphia too is in the thick of the battle against Satan and his host for this present world. That is something both Smyrna and Philadelphia have in common which none of the other Churches had, per Christ's 7 Messages. And when Jesus pointed to the 'key of David', and then told them He set an open door before them that no man can shut, it means they have been given that 'key of David' also.



Those 7 Messages should be studied based on what Lord Jesus taught, as witnessed by His Apostles per His Word. It's not something that we should use our 'emotions' to measure by. The downfall of the 5 Churches that Lord Jesus had rebuke for showed they were busy with the things of this world, and were not in the thick of the battle against Satan. This is why they had nothing in their Messages about the "synagogue of Satan".

Hey if it makes you feel better, more power to yah.

 

[BeyondET]

Yes, as I said, for the most part. That was included in the parenthetical statement. Not an every day occurrence though.

It's not even for the most part, but I will agree some people's personality may change slowing over time and others may never change, or some quit afew times.

Yes it can be daily especially if a person has personality disorders mental illness and the like.

 

[Davy]

Hey if it makes you feel better, more power to yah.

Not about feelings. It's about focus in God's Word.

 

[David Boyer]

Not about feelings. It's about focus in God's Word.

You just rambled on and as I drifted off to sleep, because fairy tales do that to me, I let you do you.

 

[David Boyer]

It's not even for the most part, but I will agree some people's personality may change slowing over time and others may never change, or some quit afew times.

Yes it can be daily especially if a person has personality disorders mental illness and the like.

You use fringe cases (personality disorders) to make a mainstream argument. Sounds the same as abortion activists saying "what about rape and incest cases".
If most people shifted their personality daily the phrase "out of character" would not exist.

 

[Davy]

You just rambled on and as I drifted off to sleep, because fairy tales do that to me, I let you do you.

You are a waste of my time. Welcome to my Ignore List.

 

[BeyondET]

You use fringe cases (personality disorders) to make a mainstream argument. Sounds the same as abortion activists saying "what about rape and incest cases".
If most people shifted their personality daily the phrase "out of character" would not exist..

Who said most people shift their personalities daily, what's up with the word salad.

 

[David Boyer]

Who said most people shift their personalities daily, what's up with the word salad.

You said "Yes it can be daily..." and "It's not even for the most part..." so with the two ideas... we take it to the logical conclusion... and your argument sounds silly.

 

[BeyondET]

You said "Yes it can be daily..." and "It's not even for the most part..." so with the two ideas... we take it to the logical conclusion... and your argument sounds silly.

It's silly you defend something that wasn't correct by going on and on instead of saying yea you got a point. I see it all the time.

 

[amigo de christo]

Is that so? If so, that's good. But even so, they were each addressed to individuals, and so the first and primary application is to them. Just like Philemon was written to an individual, and we all gain from our understanding Paul's letter, even as we read it in that context.

Much love!

Everything that JESUS taught as well as the apostels applies not to just the first century believers but to all believers in all generations .
Now hit those trenches . Too many folks are trying to omit SOME things that were first written and delivered to the original believers
by saying things like some of those things no longer apply to this day and age .
But they dead wrong . TRUTH is man is as grass and his glory is as the flower of the grass
BUT THE WORD OF THE LORD ENDURES FOREVER . YES INDEED . Now march on in the glorious LORD .

 

[amigo de christo]

I'm asking if you are truly serious, and I hope you will reconsider what you are asking.

The Bible tells us things about the kinds of questions we should and should not entertain. Asking the names of the messengers of the 7 churches, when we all know that those names are not given, well, how would you describe that sort of question?

Is it that you seek to deny the fact of the letter's address because the personal name is not known? As if that were a logical argument? And why would you even want to make an argument like that? It's empty.

Much love!

Me thinks he is trying to make the point that the angel of each church was the messenger
BUT that still dont mean the message was NOT TO SAID CHURCH . THEM WORDS Apply to the churches , even though
the messenger was known or called the angel of the said Church it addressed .
The words apply TO said church . TRUTH IS TRUTH and the lambs shall rest IN THE TRUTH . Now let all that does draw
breath both love and praise the Glorious Lord and HIS EVERY WORD OF TRUTH .

 

[amigo de christo]

Personalites do change , BUT THE TRUTH OF GODS ETERNAL WORD CHANGETH NOT .
IT remains the same yesterday , today and forever .
Let the WORD and words of GOD change the man and not the man try and change the word and words of GOD in order to suit
a teaching THEY FIND compatible with their own ideals .
Just a friendly reminder . Twist not , change not , omit not , nor pick and choose the words of truth to follow .
EMBRACE THE WORD and let the SPIRIT and the words of GOD CHANGE YOU .

 

[farouk]

I don't equate myself to the Laodicean Church....I said I believe we are in the Laodicean Church Age. .

@Heart2Soul Certain the Laodicean spirit is very strong in some countries.

Interesting how that in Western countries it's often immigrants that receive the Gospel with joy; I guess tendencies can differ very markedly among different peoples.

 

[Heart2Soul]

@Heart2Soul Certain the Laodicean spirit is very strong in some countries.

Interesting how that in Western countries it's often immigrants that receive the Gospel with joy; I guess tendencies can differ very markedly among different peoples.

I think Western countries have grown dull to the freedoms and blessings given them...especially the freedom to worship God.