Who is this Babylon chick anyways?

[David Boyer]

She is evil, spiritual darkness and all manifestationd that are generated out into the world. We are tempted by evil (her).


What happens on Judgment Day? Is it one city that is judged or the entire world?


Jesus puts down sin and evil and destroys those who practice them.


Billions will be killed during the Great Tribulation and many will just lie in the streets with no one bothering to bury them, when they are all running, pillaging, plundering or hiding with a selfish endeaver to stay alive. When the Church has been taken up, Good will on earth will as well be gone. Everyone will be out for themselves, brother killing brother, etc.


Everyone of these reprobates will look upon their own cities and cry all over the earth.

But I don't care to go back and forth with you trying to defend your view. This view is mine. So that's it, take it or leave it.

I just think a person should have some biblical basis for their beliefs.
Pre-trib is not in Revelation. I'm not against getting out of here before SHTF... but it hasn't been the pattern of God in the past nor is it in the text(in your interpenetration I am sure it is, just like many think abortion is a constitutional right, but it ain't in there).
There are a lot of Christians that work in the shipping business and you think they are reprobates... oh right you think they are already gone... but the shippers all look to one city/nation state and say who is like that one?
I don't believe you have carefully read Rev 17+18. The world system theory really doesn't stand up to a reading of Rev 18.
Cage for every unclean bird... the world will become their cage... isn't the world already the cage for every unclean bird? Where do these birds come from? Space?

Sorry.... but now you have gone a bit off the deep end for me. Welcome to your opinion. I just thought it was based on Revelation and not wishful thinking.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So let's see where everyone stands on the Babylon babe question.

I've heard anywhere from Vatican, Mecca, Jerusalem, New York, Hollywood, and who can forget historic Babylon.

Well because of all the imports listed and the reactions of the shipmasters in Rev 18:11-15 we can all agree to write off Mecca or any Islamic state.
Mostly that also excludes any place that doesn't do an epic shipping trade. So that's most of the other candidates.

So that just would leave and American city or a city state such as all of America.

So who would the beast be? My money would be on China. Because who is Americas greatest partner in crime. China. Who does China hate. America.

Just my 2 bits as they used to say. Now let the fighting begin. And remember to include references from Rev 17+18.

The whore is capitalism.
I've heard it's the Catholic church. I'm not totally sold on that but I have an open mind about it. Especially as we see things unfold here in the next few years.

The Beast out of the sea is Communism. China and Russia's style of Communism, not Nazi style Socialism.

The false prophet/beast out of the land represents the powers of the Western world under the control of China.

That's where I'm at right now.

 

[David Boyer]

The whore is capitalism.
I've heard it's the Catholic church. I'm not totally sold on that but I have an open mind about it. Especially as we see things unfold here in the next few years.

The Beast out of the sea is Communism. China and Russia's style of Communism, not Nazi style Socialism.

The false prophet/beast out of the land represents the powers of the Western world under the control of China.

That's where I'm at right now.

And what about the Red Beast that the Whore sits on?
Not the same as the Beast from the sea. Different location, colour, not referred to as the same... kinda sus.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

I just think a person should have some biblical basis for their beliefs.
Pre-trib is not in Revelation.

I agree. But you assumed i was Pre-Trib, another error!

you think they are reprobates.

I don't know who are the reprobates, only God knows. But when the Church is taken up, who are left? Mostly reprobates unless they are part of the remnant Israel, or those who were left behind that were on the fence about Christ but who did not take the Mark of the Beast.

I just think a person should have some biblical basis for their beliefs.

Absolutely. We also try to avoid that Whore.

I don't believe you have carefully read Rev 17+18.

Only for about 25 years, I'm still working on it.

“The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition... (This Beast is Abaddon/Apollyon – Rev.9:11) ... And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.” Rev. 17:8, 9 (See, those who dwell on earth, those who are left behind, where not written in the Book of Life!)

Rev. 18 For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury.” Vs. 3

“…Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, …” vs.4 >>>The Rapture of the Church is clear here and so those who are left behind, who have not received the Lord, merchants or school teachers, no matter, they will be toast. Accept the remnant chosen who have not taken the "Mark of the Beast". Maybe they were on the fence, but afterwards realized when the Church is gone and repented.

Her sins, her iniquities, her works, glorifying herself, in luxury >>> will reap torment, sorrow, plagues, death, mourning and famine, and be burned with fire.

This is a personification of evil. The entire world is going to be judged, not one city.

So if you think that the Great Tribulation is about the judgment of one city, well, we’re done discussing it. Cling unto that if you will. Get far from that city. But then opps, judgment will come to wherever you flee. Men will hide in caves, bunkers to flee the LORD.

The Church was referred to as a “city on a hill”. Yet the Church is spread worldwide. It’s figurative language. “You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.” Matt. 5:14

 

[Ferris Bueller]

And what about the Red Beast that the Whore sits on?
Not the same as the Beast from the sea. Different location, colour, not referred to as the same... kinda sus.

The whore in Revelation 17:3 sits on the same beast out of the sea in Revelation 13:1, and that beast is that ancient serpent the devil:

"3Then another sign appeared in heaven: a huge red dragon with seven heads, ten horns, and seven royal crowns on his heads." Revelation 12:3 (The devil who leads the whole world astray Revelation 12:9)

"1Then I saw a beast with ten horns and seven heads rising out of the sea. There were ten royal crowns on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads." Revelation 13:1

"3And the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness, where I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns." Revelation 17:3
​

The whore is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth:

"18And the woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.” Revelation 17:18
​

That city is Babylon:

"19The great city was split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed. And God remembered Babylon the great" Revelation 16:19​

Ancient Babylon and it's riches and it's worldliness epitomizes the world's system of the love of money and the pleasures of life it buys. God puts it into the heart of the beast and the ten horns to bring the whore to ruin. The whole world mourns the death of the whore from whom they indulged the maddening wine of her adulteries. Babylon, the whore, is capitalism and the joy of the buying and selling of the things of the world. The whole world is in bed with her. The seven headed beast is an eighth king (China, IMO). The ten horn nations of the world are various nations of the Western world and they turn their authority over to the beast in agreement to ruin the whore system of wealth and luxury. I think we're seeing it happen right before our eyes. What we thought suffered the fatal wound in the dismantling of the Soviet Union is alive and well and bringing the western world into agreement with itself and will destroy the world's system of commerce and the love of money. All according to God's plan.

Take it for what it's worth. It's not a hill worth dying for IMO. It is what it is regardless of what we think it is. But the picture becomes clearer of what it actually is as it's time draws near.

 

[Marty fox]

That doesn't rise to the level of a proof text for me. When was Abel in Jerusalem?
Also, one similarity would only be one point of reference. Line them all up. Massive world trade, Fornication (not false worship as that is not mentioned anywhere in Revelation), sits on a Red Beast that works with but hates the Whore... etc.

Try reading Revelation chapter 18 and then read Ezekiel chapter 16

Able was never in Jerusalem what the bible is saying is that the wrath of all those killed will fall on Jerusalem not that Jerusalem killed them all

 

[David Boyer]

I agree. But you assumed i was Pre-Trib, another error!


I don't know who are the reprobates, only God knows. But when the Church is taken up, who are left? Mostly reprobates unless they are part of the remnant Israel, or those who were left behind that were on the fence about Christ but who did not take the Mark of the Beast.


Absolutely. We also try to avoid that Whore.


Only for about 25 years, I'm still working on it.

“The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition... (This Beast is Abaddon/Apollyon – Rev.9:11) ... And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.” Rev. 17:8, 9 (See, those who dwell on earth, those who are left behind, where not written in the Book of Life!)

Rev. 18 For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury.” Vs. 3

“…Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, …” vs.4 >>>The Rapture of the Church is clear here and so those who are left behind, who have not received the Lord, merchants or school teachers, no matter, they will be toast. Accept the remnant chosen who have not taken the "Mark of the Beast". Maybe they were on the fence, but afterwards realized when the Church is gone and repented.

Her sins, her iniquities, her works, glorifying herself, in luxury >>> will reap torment, sorrow, plagues, death, mourning and famine, and be burned with fire.

This is a personification of evil. The entire world is going to be judged, not one city.

So if you think that the Great Tribulation is about the judgment of one city, well, we’re done discussing it. Cling unto that if you will. Get far from that city. But then opps, judgment will come to wherever you flee. Men will hide in caves, bunkers to flee the LORD.

The Church was referred to as a “city on a hill”. Yet the Church is spread worldwide. It’s figurative language. “You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.” Matt. 5:14

Okay if not pre-trib, what? Instead of saying I made a mistake without correcting me... just correct me. What do you believe about the Church being taken away then?

Did I misrepresent your reprobates statement. Well maybe try to be more clear as I can only go by what you post here. And I have only tried to respond to your post.

You are calling a biblical basis for your beliefs a Whore? That is what you seem to be saying. You: "We also try to avoid that Whore" in response to Me:"I just think a person should have some biblical basis for their beliefs."

25 years is a long time to be mistaken.

If Babylon is the world system... how are you posting this if you are to get out of the world system? Are you not using the internet/computer/electricity?

When do I say the Tribulation is only one city??? The destruction of Babylon is a specific event.

Church is NOT referred to a a city on a hill in Mat 5:14. It is referred to as the light of the world and an example is give of a city on a hill. (Kinda calls your 25 years of reading into doubt.)

Please stop straw manning me. Before going off on a rant, maybe ask for clarification.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Instead of saying I made a mistake without correcting me... just correct me. What do you believe about the Church being taken away then?

Mid- Tribber. I explained it in another one of your threads - today actually. the Seventh Trumpet (Rev. 11:15 and Rev. 7:9, with vs. 14 explaining who they are, are likely two different vantage points of the same event)

You are calling a biblical basis for your beliefs a Whore?

Oh boy, Babylon is the Whore.

If Babylon is the world system... how are you posting this if you are to get out of the world system?

Christians of not of the World, we live and function in it and will soon be taken out of it.

When do I say the Tribulation is only one city??? The destruction of Babylon is a specific event.

If you interpret that way, so have your view. It seems like I'm talking to a Liberal Democrat. I get nowhere in a conversation with them. It is as if they are living in a alternate reality. I have the same problem with Catholics and Non-Trinitarians too. Just curious, are you any one of the the above?

 

[Truth7t7]

She is evil, spiritual darkness and all manifestationd that are generated out into the world. We are tempted by evil (her).


What happens on Judgment Day? Is it one city that is judged or the entire world?


Jesus puts down sin and evil and destroys those who practice them.


Billions will be killed during the Great Tribulation and many will just lie in the streets with no one bothering to bury them, when they are all running, pillaging, plundering or hiding with a selfish endeaver to stay alive. When the Church has been taken up, Good will on earth will as well be gone. Everyone will be out for themselves, brother killing brother, etc.


Everyone of these reprobates will look upon their own cities and cry all over the earth.

But I don't care to go back and forth with you trying to defend your view. This view is mine. So that's it, take it or leave it.

Ron it is my opinion that Jerusalem is that city, she will rule over the entire world when the future Antichrist takes his seat in Jerusalem, my 2 cents

 

[David Boyer]

Mid- Tribber. I explained it in another one of your threads - today actually. the Seventh Trumpet (Rev. 11:15 and Rev. 7:9, with vs. 14 explaining who they are, are likely two different vantage points of the same event)


Oh boy, Babylon is the Whore.


Christians of not of the World, we live and function in it and will soon be taken out of it.

If you interpret that way, so have your view. It seems like I'm talking to a Liberal Democrat. I get nowhere in a conversation with them. It is as if they are living in a alternate reality. I have the same problem with Catholics and Non-Trinitarians too. Just curious, are you any one of the the above?

None of the above. Canadian Mennonite Goat Farmer.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If the Whore is the world system then who is the Red Beast?

The eighth king and the last of the world powers of the devil - China, IMO.
Red signifying that the world will see it for the red beast that it has always been, and what we see as 'Red' China. The world will be astonished by the power and might of this last world power and will give glory to and worship the devil through this last king and empire.

Who will destroy the Whore?

China after it takes over the western world turning it against it's very own capitalistic system. All by God's design to fulfill his purpose in judging the whore that sits on and rules over the kings of the earth.

The world system becomes the home of every unclean bird? How does that work?

Unclean birds refers to dark spiritual beings - unclean spirits. They inhabit the ungodly system of commerce. Like in ancient Babylon, the worship of demons/false gods is closely associated with the love of the pleasures of the world. It seems everyone in love with the world has their 'spiritual' system of beliefs and they always involve demonic powers who give them the things of the world.

How do the ship-masters and kings (part of the world system) stand afar off and cry(Rev 18:10+17)?

When the cities of the world are nuked. Places like London and New York City, the epitome of the worlds wealth and luxury and it's system of commerce and it's financial hubs. Those who who grew rich from the capitalistic system of buying and selling will mourn the end of the system that made them rich and through which they enjoyed the pleasures of this life.

 

[David Boyer]

The eighth king and the last of the world powers of the devil - China, IMO.
Red signifying that the world will see it for the red beast that it has always been, and what we see as 'Red' China. The world will be astonished by the power and might of this last world power and will give glory to and worship the devil through this last king and empire.


China after it takes over the western world turning it against it's very own capitalistic system. All by God's design to fulfill his purpose.


Unclean birds refers to dark spiritual beings - unclean spirits. They inhabit the ungodly system of commerce. Like in ancient Babylon, the worship of demons/false gods is closely associated with the love of the pleasures of the world. It seems everyone in love with the world has their 'spiritual' system of beliefs and they always involve demonic powers.


When the cities of the world are nuked. Places like London and New York City, the epitome of the worlds wealth and luxury and it's system of commerce and it's financial hubs. Those who who grew rich from the capitalistic system of buying and selling will mourn the end of they system that made them rich and through which they enjoyed the pleasures of this life.

I agree with the China thing... but for different reasons of course.
Unclean birds as spirits of commerce... Nope, Unless you have textual references from Revelation to back that up.
But didn't you say that the Whore was a world system? Then you shift to talking about cities being nuked, and financial hubs. I gotta get me a bible the the one you read. I love me a good fairy tale.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Unclean birds as spirits of commerce... Nope

I explained in an edit of that post, I think, that the love of this world and it's indulgences is almost always connected to idol worship. Which is really the worship of demons...you know, unclean spirits, not the worship of false gods (for there is only One God). Fame and fortune are almost always connected to demonic beliefs and worship in some form.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

But didn't you say that the Whore was a world system? Then you shift to talking about cities being nuked, and financial hubs. I gotta get me a bible the the one you read. I love me a good fairy tale.

The whore is the world's system of buying and selling. We call it 'capitalism'. The financial hubs of the world - New York, London, etc. - are representative of the world system of capitalism. We will see, visually and symbolically the death of capitalism in the destruction of the great financial hubs of the world. Maybe just New York City alone. Remember 9-11? "The smoke of her burning..." I believe that was just a precursor to what is coming.

 

[David Boyer]

The whore is the world's system of buying and selling. We call it 'capitalism'. The financial hubs of the world - New York, London, etc. - are representative of the world system of capitalism. We will see, visually and symbolically the death of capitalism in the destruction of the great financial hubs of the world. Maybe just New York City alone. Remember 9-11? "The smoke of her burning..." I believe that was just a precursor to what is coming.

Must be nice to be able to reach that far back. I don't that type of faith. I read, hear, keep the words (Rev 1:3). I don't try to cram the scripture into my thinking. I prefer to believe that Revelation says what will happen, then look to see if anything fits. Must be nice to be able to do it the other way round.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I prefer to believe that Revelation says what will happen, then look to see if anything fits.

But that is exactly what I'm doing!
I'm amazed at how world events are making Revelation relevant and more understood.
I know that's usually poo-pooed in the Christian community to do it that way, but to me it's just too compelling.

 

[bbyrd009]

Revelation and not wishful thinking.

ha well “The revelation of Christ” is prolly not a very well understood context anyway

I prefer to believe that Revelation says what will happen, then look to see if anything fits

what will happen in the world you mean, right

 

[David Boyer]

But that is exactly what I'm doing!
I'm amazed at how world events are making Revelation relevant and more understood.
I know that's usually poo-pooed in the Christian community to do it that way, but to me it's just too compelling.

Thanks for agreeing with me.
Just remember Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to every man that hears the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add to these things, God shall add to him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

So stop adding your ideas to the book. Just read it and if it doesn't directly indicate something, move on.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So stop adding your ideas to the book. Just read it and if it doesn't directly indicate something, move on.

You have to do that, too.

I said I consider all this a hill not worth dying on. It is what it is and we will know for sure what it is when it happens, whether we see it from this side of heaven or the other. Frankly, I'm sick of people demeaning and abusing other people when they don't agree with what they have so arrogantly declared is the right and only way to understand it. ESPECIALLY this small matter of when the saints get taken up to heaven.

 

[Charlie24]

You have to do that, too.

I said I consider all this a hill not worth dying on. It is what it is and we will know for sure what it is when it happens, whether we see it from this side of heaven or the other. Frankly, I'm sick of people demeaning and abusing other people when they don't agree with what they have so arrogantly declared is the right and only way to understand it. ESPECIALLY this small matter of when the saints get taken up to heaven.

Yep, the exact reason so many avoid this forum!