Who is this Babylon chick anyways?

[Marty fox]

Revelation is not to be interpreted, just read, heard, and kept. Rev 1:3

3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.

Really then why does it say “blessed are those who hear it and take heart what is written in it”?

How could anyone be blessed or what would be the purpose of it or even hearing it if it wasn’t to be interpreted?

Did you read the last part of that verse? “because the time is near”

It was a letter and a warning to seven literal churches.

 

[Brakelite]

Right, the Rev 17:15 quote says that the whore sits on many waters, nation, tongues... but that describe where she sits, not her. I sit on a chair but I don't have four legs.

So one city/nation state would still be a valid reading of the text. And remember that it is fornication not false religion that the nations do with the Whore. The Maxwell/Epstein story fit that narrative rather well. Nowhere in Rev 18+19 is false religion equated with the Whore (that I can see).

If the Whore is the world system then who is the Red Beast? Who will destroy the Whore?
The world system becomes the home of every unclean bird? How does that work?
How do the ship-masters and kings (part of the world system) stand afar off and cry(Rev 18:10+17)?

Babylon is a political religious system. The term blasphemy applies to her which is purely a religious term, and specifically Christian or at least biblical.
The adultery she and her lovers are guilty of are spiritual adultery... In terms of marriage this woman, who professes to be Christian, is on an intimate and illicit relationship with the world.
The question to be answered then, is, why is this Babylon entity the Christian church and not Israel? The answer is actually quite obvious. Israel divorced itself from God 2000 years ago, was declared by Christ as being desolate from that point on. Babylon the Great, a NT spiritual entity, must have been at one stage in a right and proper relationship with her Husband before apostatizing. Apostasy in the original Greek means divorce, but one cannot be divorced without first being married. Israel as a nation was never in such a relationship with Christ. They rejected Christ and killed Him at the time of His proposal.
Babylon the Great is a global power having global influence over the many affairs of men. Financial, religious, military, and political. But she wasn't always so. And she isn't that way yet, although there are movements throughout the religious political world that are giving rise to her formation.

 

[dad]

So let's see where everyone stands on the Babylon babe question.

I've heard anywhere from Vatican, Mecca, Jerusalem, New York, Hollywood, and who can forget historic Babylon.

Well because of all the imports listed and the reactions of the shipmasters in Rev 18:11-15 we can all agree to write off Mecca or any Islamic state.
Mostly that also excludes any place that doesn't do an epic shipping trade. So that's most of the other candidates.

So that just would leave and American city or a city state such as all of America.

So who would the beast be? My money would be on China. Because who is Americas greatest partner in crime. China. Who does China hate. America.

Just my 2 bits as they used to say. Now let the fighting begin. And remember to include references from Rev 17+18.

One of the first descriptions of the woman is this

Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth .

Spiritual adultery has to do with putting other things ahead of God.

So we know this system seems to permeate history. It also culminates in that very end period, because we see the woman riding the beast that has ten horns.
The beast she rides was in the past. It also will be in the future. It is also the same beast that rises from the pit in the end. The seven kingdoms or mountains are likely the major powers that Satan ruled that the bible focused on. I would think they are Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo Persia, Greece, Rome, and the final revived Roman Empire. Five were fallen in John's day. One was (Rome) and one was yet to come in the end. When that kingdom comes, we are told it has but a short time to exist. That last kingdom will have ten kings, and be under the AntiChrist. This worldwide kingdom with it's ten kings under the AntiChrist will hate and fight God.

So the woman we are told is that great city that dominates the other kingdoms of the world.

Whoever the woman is, she has made drunk the kings of the world and made them rich by trading with her. Her evil influences have affected the world. That sort of reminds one of Hollywood and the USA.

Another thing is that she is hated by many kings. That also reminds me of the US. One more eerie similarity with modern times is that this kingdom that corrupted the world and made many nations rich that trade by sea will be wiped out suddenly in one day, one hour. By fire. Burned.

It does not seem possible to me that some new city in the area of old Babylon could fit this bill.

 

[David Boyer]

One of the first descriptions of the woman is this

Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth .

Spiritual adultery has to do with putting other things ahead of God.

So we know this system seems to permeate history. It also culminates in that very end period, because we see the woman riding the beast that has ten horns.
The beast she rides was in the past. It also will be in the future. It is also the same beast that rises from the pit in the end. The seven kingdoms or mountains are likely the major powers that Satan ruled that the bible focused on. I would think they are Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo Persia, Greece, Rome, and the final revived Roman Empire. Five were fallen in John's day. One was (Rome) and one was yet to come in the end. When that kingdom comes, we are told it has but a short time to exist. That last kingdom will have ten kings, and be under the AntiChrist. This worldwide kingdom with it's ten kings under the AntiChrist will hate and fight God.

So the woman we are told is that great city that dominates the other kingdoms of the world.

Whoever the woman is, she has made drunk the kings of the world and made them rich by trading with her. Her evil influences have affected the world. That sort of reminds one of Hollywood and the USA.

Another thing is that she is hated by many kings. That also reminds me of the US. One more eerie similarity with modern times is that this kingdom that corrupted the world and made many nations rich that trade by sea will be wiped out suddenly in one day, one hour. By fire. Burned.

It does not seem possible to me that some new city in the area of old Babylon could fit this bill.

Mother of Harlots... Does not equate with spiritual adultery in my opinion.

With all the Maxwell/Epstein stories... Why is the spiritual dimension necessary? With things like paedophile island and Prince Andrews story, the Clinton's, etc. Why not just fornication. I see no references in Revelation 17+18 to spiritual matters. Why not a simply physical control via blackmail?

 

[David Boyer]

3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.

Really then why does it say “blessed are those who hear it and take heart what is written in it”?

How could anyone be blessed or what would be the purpose of it or even hearing it if it wasn’t to be interpreted?

Did you read the last part of that verse? “because the time is near”

It was a letter and a warning to seven literal churches.

I disagree. What is 2000 years to God? Not a long time.
Why are you asking me the purpose... I'm getting my clues from John. Ask John what the purpose of Revelation is. I'm just saying what he said.

 

[David Boyer]

Babylon is a political religious system. The term blasphemy applies to her which is purely a religious term, and specifically Christian or at least biblical.
The adultery she and her lovers are guilty of are spiritual adultery... In terms of marriage this woman, who professes to be Christian, is on an intimate and illicit relationship with the world.
The question to be answered then, is, why is this Babylon entity the Christian church and not Israel? The answer is actually quite obvious. Israel divorced itself from God 2000 years ago, was declared by Christ as being desolate from that point on. Babylon the Great, a NT spiritual entity, must have been at one stage in a right and proper relationship with her Husband before apostatizing. Apostasy in the original Greek means divorce, but one cannot be divorced without first being married. Israel as a nation was never in such a relationship with Christ. They rejected Christ and killed Him at the time of His proposal.
Babylon the Great is a global power having global influence over the many affairs of men. Financial, religious, military, and political. But she wasn't always so. And she isn't that way yet, although there are movements throughout the religious political world that are giving rise to her formation.

Not a single verse to back up you opinions.
So I feel free to ignore them.

 

[Brakelite]

Not a single verse to back up you opinions.
So I feel free to ignore them.

You don't read scripture a great deal do you. If you did, you would recognize how scripture has informed everything in my post.

 

[Brakelite]

So let's see where everyone stands on the Babylon babe question.

I've heard anywhere from Vatican, Mecca, Jerusalem, New York, Hollywood, and who can forget historic Babylon.

Well because of all the imports listed and the reactions of the shipmasters in Rev 18:11-15 we can all agree to write off Mecca or any Islamic state.
Mostly that also excludes any place that doesn't do an epic shipping trade. So that's most of the other candidates.

So that just would leave and American city or a city state such as all of America.

So who would the beast be? My money would be on China. Because who is Americas greatest partner in crime. China. Who does China hate. America.

Just my 2 bits as they used to say. Now let the fighting begin. And remember to include references from Rev 17+18.

You are looking to the world to inform you what scripture means. But scripture explains scripture.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Is there economic trade on international scales on today's earth? Yes, of course, and technically, that ten horn, seven head, ten crown beast kingdom to be setup over ALL NATIONS is not even here yet today.

Yes, very possibly true.

So how can those with small minds limit that still 'future' beast one-world kingdom into one small city in America, or Europe??

The economic system may be epitomized and represented by a single great city among all the cities of the world. And so the destruction of that one city represents the fall of the entire system.

 

[David Boyer]

You are looking to the world to inform you what scripture means. But scripture explains scripture.

Exactly the opposite in fact.

I take everything in Revelation as true. Then see if the world today matches up. And if what Revelation says is coming then what in today's world would match any coming events.

Also latest prophecy is clearer that older prophecy. The closer to the event the less fog of history exists. ie Revelation is the best picture of the future and Daniel is secondary reference material. There will be no contradiction, but some of the older material might be referencing historical events I don't have knowledge about.

If I do any eisegesis please inform me with some quotes... and I may explain my position further or change my stance.

 

[David Boyer]

You don't read scripture a great deal do you. If you did, you would recognize how scripture has informed everything in my post.

Show your work was a requirement of the OP.

 

[Marty fox]

I disagree. What is 2000 years to God? Not a long time.
Why are you asking me the purpose... I'm getting my clues from John. Ask John what the purpose of Revelation is. I'm just saying what he said.

But It’s not to God the time is near was written to the church’s

When a letter is written to someone it’s not a mystery but an explanation. Revelation was written to seven churches and it is full of Old Testament symbolic language they would of understood it as it was written to them not to us.

 

[dad]

Mother of Harlots... Does not equate with spiritual adultery in my opinion.

With all the Maxwell/Epstein stories... Why is the spiritual dimension necessary? With things like paedophile island and Prince Andrews story, the Clinton's, etc. Why not just fornication. I see no references in Revelation 17+18 to spiritual matters. Why not a simply physical control via blackmail?

Because in the bible the comparison to adultery and harlotry is often used of Israel. So if we have a worldwide city where that term is applied, I assume a part of the reason is because they departed from God and loved material things etc.

 

[amigo de christo]

Babylon is a political religious system. The term blasphemy applies to her which is purely a religious term, and specifically Christian or at least biblical.
The adultery she and her lovers are guilty of are spiritual adultery... In terms of marriage this woman, who professes to be Christian, is on an intimate and illicit relationship with the world.
The question to be answered then, is, why is this Babylon entity the Christian church and not Israel? The answer is actually quite obvious. Israel divorced itself from God 2000 years ago, was declared by Christ as being desolate from that point on. Babylon the Great, a NT spiritual entity, must have been at one stage in a right and proper relationship with her Husband before apostatizing. Apostasy in the original Greek means divorce, but one cannot be divorced without first being married. Israel as a nation was never in such a relationship with Christ. They rejected Christ and killed Him at the time of His proposal.
Babylon the Great is a global power having global influence over the many affairs of men. Financial, religious, military, and political. But she wasn't always so. And she isn't that way yet, although there are movements throughout the religious political world that are giving rise to her formation.

yeah and she sits over this we are one all inclusive religoin. SHE is a whore and desires us to focus on having us some unity
at the cost of truth so as everyone just comes together and sits under her . THAT IS A FACT
and i am sorry to have to say MOST FOLKS to some degree are already under her influence .

 

[amigo de christo]

Mother of Harlots... Does not equate with spiritual adultery in my opinion.

With all the Maxwell/Epstein stories... Why is the spiritual dimension necessary? With things like paedophile island and Prince Andrews story, the Clinton's, etc. Why not just fornication. I see no references in Revelation 17+18 to spiritual matters. Why not a simply physical control via blackmail?

THEN you dont understand . SHE CAUSES FOLKS to drink of her cup of FORNICATION . ADULTERY against GOD , fornication with another
religion or mindset . Open bible and learn it well .

 

[amigo de christo]

You are looking to the world to inform you what scripture means. But scripture explains scripture.

Its real clear she pours out a cup of fornication . That IS SPIRITUAL ADULTERY against GOD .
If some folks would but read all the examples even in what folks now call old test .
Fornication dont just mean the act of physical fornication it clearly speaks of spiritual fornication against GOD .
YEP .

 

[David Boyer]

Because in the bible the comparison to adultery and harlotry is often used of Israel. So if we have a worldwide city where that term is applied, I assume a part of the reason is because they departed from God and loved material things etc.

So no proof texts from Revelation to back up your theory, okay.

 

[David Boyer]

THEN you dont understand . SHE CAUSES FOLKS to drink of her cup of FORNICATION . ADULTERY against GOD , fornication with another
religion or mindset . Open bible and learn it well .

Show your work. Where in Revelation is the verse that says the fornication is religious adultery?

 

[dad]

So no proof texts from Revelation to back up your theory, okay.

So unless you see principles that permeate the bible in one verse or chapter, you think they must not apply, for no particular reason, and despite the obvious fit. OK.

That is rich, coming from someone who raised Jefferey Epstein!

 

[dad]

Show your work. Where in Revelation is the verse that says the fornication is religious adultery?

James equates adultery with love of the world. Hosea married a harlot to demonstrate spiritual adultery etc etc etc etc etc Show us the verse where it means Epstein like pedo?