Who is this Babylon chick anyways?

[dad]

Don't know where you are getting that false assumption of people in hell saying any such thing, unless you are referring to Isaiah 14:10 and 14:16, which is about the time of Christ's future "thousand years" reign when Lucifer will be locked in his pit prison, and the kings, and those who look over at the pit at him say those things.

When that scene occurs aside, it happens.

Isaiah 14:9



Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.



The scene is dead people in hell.

That is made clear yet again

Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
Isaiah 14:16



They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms

I do not plan to be dead and rotting, covered in worms and in hell seeing Satan at that time. Who does that leave? The folks that are there it seems to me.


That is still God speaking against Lucifer, but our Heavenly Father is referring to what others will say about Lucifer in that future time, and those are not all in hell that say those things.

When does the whole earth become quiet, and break forth into singing?

Millennium?

they are amazed that Satan locked in his pit prison is powerless like them.

Where did you think those kings were seeing Satan?

Isaiah 24:21-23 reveals those kings will be locked in the pit along with Satan, and after many days will be visited (for destruction at the end of the future millennium.)

Nope.

Isaiah 24:20



The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

Isaiah 24:21



And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.

Isaiah 24:22



And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.

So the scene seems to be when Jesus returns and destroys the wicked. Later, after the millennium the dead are raised and judged.
No news there.

Then God speaks of Satan's eventual fate...

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, "Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;"

The people in hell and dead talking to Satan there who is also covered in worms are saying that. Maybe it is an insult now that he is just another inmate. Whatever. That does not mean Satan is a man. Mankind is mankind. Period.

 

[DanielConway]

Here is a development of the beast, it's seven heads, the ten horns, and the woman that rides it that is within the pale of conventional apocalyptic interpretation. The beast and the woman who rides it have traditionally been identified as the Roman Empire (pagan) and the city of Rome. I won't provide a link here because this construct is widely available in the Christian religious literature. My identification of the seven heads gets a bit more particularized to 19th century reformed thought in that I believe they represent the seven major Emperors of Rome from Julius Caesar to Septemus Severus. My identification of the ten horns is as far as I can tell is a construct of my own. Many commentators identify the ten horns as ten kings, as they are so identified in the parallel vision in Daniel, but they presume them to be contemporaneous and largely recent, the European States essentially. The reign of these kings, however, is restricted to a very short time, one hour in the apocalypse, so I map them onto the several minor kingdoms that ruled for a very brief period in portions of the geography previously occupied by pagan Rome and just prior to the constituting of Constantinean Rome during the Roman Imperial crisis. A bit obscure, but the Crisis period is getting better documented now and anybody who is curious can read up and try to assign particular horns to kingdoms.

 

[dad]

That's an old Jewish belief.

God's Heavenly Abode, which includes the abode of the angels, and even the abode of hell (Hades), is in a DIFFERENT DIMENSION of existence than our earthly dimension.

Furthermore, there is NO such idea about 3 separate heavens written in God's Word. The third heaven that Apostle Paul referred to in 2 Cor.12 is about the third world earth age, i.e., the future new heavens and a new earth timing. Paul said he heard words not lawful to utter.

There are only TWO HEAVENS written of in God's Word, the heavenly atmosphere sky around this earth, and then the Heavenly dimension that is HIDDEN behind a veil where God's Abode and the angels are, a dimension of Spirit, and not material matter.

This earthly dimension we live in INCLUDES the WHOLE UNIVERSE, which is made up of material matter! This is elementary Bible 101, so it's amazing that you claim understanding in your Bible, yet you are completely ignorant of this matter because of holding to a false Jewish tradition.

Nope. The bible is pretty clear, we can disagree.

 

[Truth7t7]

You are still wrongly assigning the idea of a flesh human man to the "dragon" and the "another beast" of Revelation 13.

Rev 13:4-7
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, 'Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?'

Per Revelation 12:9, the "dragon" is another title for Satan himself. Jesus gave us a strong hint there about who the coming Antichrist-false-Messiah will be.

The "beast" pointed to there is about the one in Revelation 13:1 that was just mentioned in that Chapter, which is about a beast 'kingdom' of ten horns, seven heads, and ten crowns. It is NOT that "dragon" (Satan). The Revelation 13:11 forward Scripture is about the "dragon" (Satan), called the "another beast", i.e., a 2nd beast. There are TWO separate beasts being described in Revelation 13, not one, likewise in Revelation 17 also.

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
KJV

Those above verses 5-7 descriptions align with the prophecy in the Book of Daniel about the coming Antichrist (Daniel 7 and 8 about the "little horn" and "king of fierce countenance"). And those verses above are still being associated with the "dragon" of verse 4. The whole world will worship the "dragon", except Christ's elect who's names are written in the book of life of The Lamb from the foundation of the world.

Rev 13:8
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
KJV

No flesh born antichrist will do those great signs and wonders and miracles of the coming Antichrist-pseudo-Christ. God's Word describes the Antichrist doing a supernatural working...

Rev 13:13-14
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
KJV

And the titles, "son of perdition" and "man of sin" per Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2, are more titles pointing directly to Satan himself. As I said before, Satan's title of Apollyon is from Greek apollumi which means perdition. in Rev.9 is about his already having been judged and sentenced to PERISH in the future "lake of fire". Only he and his angels so far have been sentenced to perish.

The Revelation 17 chapter gives further pointers that can only apply directly about Satan as this specific "another beast", a 2nd beast.

There are "Two Beasts" seen below, the first is a future human man (The Antichrist/Man Of Sin) and the second is also a future human man (The False Prophet) as described as the man performing miracles before the world infront of the beast

The "Two Beast" are described with "Personal Pronouns" He, His, Him, and they are "Human Men" that will be cast "Alive" into the lake of fire

Revelation 13:4-14KJV
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[Truth7t7]

You apparently think that because spirits visit earth that they can never leave. Kinda like 'you touched that rock so you are stuck to it forever' childish reasoning.
Gabriel visited Daniel. Does that mean he lives in Beverly Hills now and cannot get back to heaven?
Seriously?

You believe and teach Revelation 12:1-5 below is a future event of Satan being g cast out of heaven, 100% "Wrong"!

The verses below show the woman Israel representing the 12 stars in the Tribes of Israel

The verses show how Jesus Christ (The Man Child) was to be born, as the woman was in birth

The verses show that the (Dragon/Satan) stood before the woman ready to (Devour/Kill) Jesus Christ as soon as he was born, this took place when King Herod seeking out Jesus Christ to kill him when he was born "Long Ago"!

Jesus Christ was caught up to God and his throne at the ascension "Long Ago"!

Revelation 12:1-5KJV
1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

 

[dad]

You believe and teach Revelation 12:1-5 below is a future event of Satan being g cast out of heaven, 100% "Wrong"!

I don't remember mentioning those verses.

I was thinking of this verse

Revelation 12:12


Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time

That seems to refer to the Tribulation time.

The verses below show the woman Israel representing the 12 stars in the Tribes of Israel

The verses show how Jesus Christ (The Man Child) was to be born, as the woman was in birth

The verses show that the (Dragon/Satan) stood before the woman ready to (Devour/Kill) Jesus Christ as soon as he was born, this took place when King Herod seeking out Jesus Christ to kill him when he was born "Long Ago"!

That is true, the devil was around then. But the short time was not! So the bit that speaks of the short time is specifically about...what, class?

Revelation 12:1-5KJV
1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

So we had the one wonder, Jesus being born. Then we have another wonder...

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

So what that seems to say to me is that that same dragon that will be cast down to earth with his demons, is the one also there at that first wonder, trying to kill Jesus.

Not all that complicated. Try to remember that interpreting must fit the rest of the bible.

 

[Truth7t7]

I don't remember mentioning those verses.

I was thinking of this verse

Revelation 12:12


Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time

That seems to refer to the Tribulation time.


That is true, the devil was around then. But the short time was not! So the bit that speaks of the short time is specifically about...what, class?



So we had the one wonder, Jesus being born. Then we have another wonder...


So what that seems to say to me is that that same dragon that will be cast down to earth with his demons, is the one also there at that first wonder, trying to kill Jesus.

Not all that complicated. Try to remember that interpreting must fit the rest of the bible.

The fact of the matter is, Satan was cast out of heaven long ago as you were clearly shown

Satan and his Angels didnt jump back up to heaven and they aren't looking at doing a future replay as you falsely believe and teach

 

[dad]

The fact of the matter is, Satan was cast out of heaven long ago as you were clearly shown

Satan and his Angels didnt jump back up to heaven and they aren't looking at doing a future replay as you falsely believe and teach

Your opinion stated as fact is not something I agree with. Nor does God.

 

[Truth7t7]

Your opinion stated as fact is not something I agree with. Nor does God.

You don't agree with my opinion, and you speak for God, Are you claiming to be God

 

[dad]

You don't agree with my opinion, and you speak for God, Are you claiming to be God

His word is clear. Your opinion does not agree. You are welcome to it

 

[Truth7t7]

His word is clear. Your opinion does not agree. You are welcome to it

I will say with confidence, your claims oppose scripture

Satan and his Angels are thrown out of heaven two times?

Beyond imagination, sci-fi!

Jesus Is The Lord!

 

[Davy]

Not true. The human is the antichrist, Satan is a spirit. Try to avoid strawmen arguments.

Your vain attempt at strawmen usage is laughable!

You're simply deceived like many folks are about the Antichrist (which means the 'in place of Christ').

He will be the devil himself, come to this earth in OUR dimension, with his angels, when the following event happens in our near future...

Rev 12:7-11
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
KJV

Those events are still yet to happen, and that defines just who that "dragon" of Revelation 13 is, and the "another beast" that will speak as a dragon (because it is the dragon, Satan himself).

 

[Davy]

When that scene occurs aside, it happens.

Isaiah 14:9

Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

The scene is dead people in hell.

That is made clear yet again

Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
Isaiah 14:16

They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms

I do not plan to be dead and rotting, covered in worms and in hell seeing Satan at that time. Who does that leave? The folks that are there it seems to me.


That is still God speaking against Lucifer, but our Heavenly Father is referring to what others will say about Lucifer in that future time, and those are not all in hell that say those things.

Millennium?

Where did you think those kings were seeing Satan?

Nope.

Isaiah 24:20

The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

Isaiah 24:21

And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.

Isaiah 24:22

And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.

So the scene seems to be when Jesus returns and destroys the wicked. Later, after the millennium the dead are raised and judged.
No news there.

The people in hell and dead talking to Satan there who is also covered in worms are saying that. Maybe it is an insult now that he is just another inmate. Whatever. That does not mean Satan is a man. Mankind is mankind. Period.

It's obvious that you are so wrapped up in 'fleshy' teachings that you'll scarcely be able to cast off your flesh on the final day of this world. But I know you will cast it off, unless you die first during this present world time. And you will discover yourself in that 'other' body type which Apostle Paul taught in 2 Corinthians 5 and 1 Corinthians 15.

 

[Davy]

Nope. The bible is pretty clear, we can disagree.

The Bible disagrees... with you.

John 3:6
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
KJV

Eccl 12:6-7
6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
KJV

I guess I'll have to add another Judaizer to my Ignore List that has come here to a Christian forum under false pretenses.

 

[Truth7t7]

Your vain attempt at strawmen usage is laughable!

You're simply deceived like many folks are about the Antichrist (which means the 'in place of Christ').

He will be the devil himself, come to this earth in OUR dimension, with his angels, when the following event happens in our near future...

Rev 12:7-11
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
KJV

Those events are still yet to happen, and that defines just who that "dragon" of Revelation 13 is, and the "another beast" that will speak as a dragon (because it is the dragon, Satan himself).

"Wrong"

There are "Two Beasts" seen below, the first is a future human man (The Antichrist/Man Of Sin) and the second is also a future human man (The False Prophet) as described as the man performing miracles before the world infront of the beast

The "Two Beast" are described with "Personal Pronouns" He, His, Him, and they are "Human Men" that will be cast "Alive" into the lake of fire

Revelation 13:4-14KJV
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[dad]

I will say with confidence, your claims oppose scripture

Satan and his Angels are thrown out of heaven two times?

Beyond imagination, sci-fi!

Jesus Is The Lord!

Cast from the third heaven, later from the second heavens, then to earth, then to the pit, then out again for a bit, then to the lake. Sorry if you were against moving inmates, but there is no confusion in God's word.

 

[dad]

Your vain attempt at strawmen usage is laughable!

You're simply deceived like many folks are about the Antichrist (which means the 'in place of Christ').

He will be the devil himself, come to this earth in OUR dimension, with his angels, when the following event happens in our near future...

Rev 12:7-11
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
KJV

Those events are still yet to happen, and that defines just who that "dragon" of Revelation 13 is, and the "another beast" that will speak as a dragon (because it is the dragon, Satan himself).

Satan does deceive the world. A man is used to rule it (actually 2 men, the false prophet also) The man of sin, the vile person, the son of perdition, etc. These men are cast alive when Jesus returns into the lake of fire. They are still there alive at the end of the 1000 years. Neither could be Satan. /for the win

 

[dad]

The Bible disagrees... with you.

I guess I'll have to add another Judaizer to my Ignore List that has come here to a Christian forum under false pretenses.

Not sure why you lapse into some sort of anti semetic episode here when you are shown to be laughably wrong about Scripture. Paul was taken into the third heaven. That is where God is, above the heavens. That was where Gabriel came from, the throne of God. As for people in hell mocking a worm ridden Satan, sorry, that is not on earth or in the millennium, etc. God is not the author of your confused posts and twisted fantasies.