What is the rule of faith for Christians?
- Thread starter theefaith
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That would be the one and only Church. And whatever the Pope deems to be the truth of Scripture.
We don't have enough sense to go directly to Christ, we must use the Pope as our Mediator.
So the mighty Church is the object of our faith, and through that faith, we depend on the Pope to guide us.
Is that the answer you're looking for, theefaith? Is this the blasphemy you believe?
no but it is scripture!
Christ founded the church to teach and sanctify all men! Matt 28:19 1 Tim 3:15 and built this church on Peter the first pope Isa 22:21-22 Matt 16:18-19 and the apostles Matt 18:18 Jn 20:21-23 eph 2:20
I was going to say it is Christ!
Jn 1:16-17 and Jn 14:6 acts
acts 4:2 Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead.
Acts 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
one church one fold! Jn 10:16
Not like you’re heretical sects of the tradition of men attacking and accusations against Christ and His one true church!
the glorious city on a hill!
Prophecy of the new covenant and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (The new covenant church) Jn 15:1-5
Dan 2: 44 And in the days of these kings (Roman Caesars) shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
Isaiah 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
Micah 4:1
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
Daniel 7:18
But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.
Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Matt 21:43 taken from Israel given to Peter and the apostles Matt 16:18-19 18:18 Jn 20:21 eph 2:20
1 Peter 4:11
If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Jude 1:8
Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.
Jude 1:25
To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
Christ is king and has all authority and dominion!
Christ appointed Peter, the apostles, and their successors to govern the church and administer the kingdom until He returns in glory!
Submission and obedience to them is submission and obedience to Christ!
Like Joseph under pharaoh the king and his brothers bowed in obedience to Him as God willed!
But Protestant fundamentalists will not, for satan the first Protestant was in rebellion against God saying: I will not serve! I will not obey!
So who is you’re leader?
All those who submit and obey are Christ’s!
Those who do not are satan’s!
Acts 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
one church one fold! Jn 10:16
Not like you’re heretical sects of the tradition of men attacking and accusations against Christ and His one true church!
the glorious city on a hill!
Prophecy of the new covenant and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (The new covenant church) Jn 15:1-5
Dan 2: 44 And in the days of these kings (Roman Caesars) shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
Isaiah 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
Micah 4:1
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
Daniel 7:18
But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.
Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Matt 21:43 taken from Israel given to Peter and the apostles Matt 16:18-19 18:18 Jn 20:21 eph 2:20
1 Peter 4:11
If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Jude 1:8
Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.
Jude 1:25
To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
Christ is king and has all authority and dominion!
Christ appointed Peter, the apostles, and their successors to govern the church and administer the kingdom until He returns in glory!
Submission and obedience to them is submission and obedience to Christ!
Like Joseph under pharaoh the king and his brothers bowed in obedience to Him as God willed!
But Protestant fundamentalists will not, for satan the first Protestant was in rebellion against God saying: I will not serve! I will not obey!
So who is you’re leader?
All those who submit and obey are Christ’s!
Those who do not are satan’s!
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
@Charlie24 , I'm learning that Catholics believe that the Catholic church and Christ are one and the same thing. So the deception here is it's useful toward drawing non-Catholics over to Catholic beliefs by saying Christ is the source of truth for Christians when what they actually mean is the Catholic church is the source of truth for Christians. They can't come right out and say that at first because that'll drive non-Catholics off immediately, so they disguise what they really believe by using deception.
I’ll say it! With scripture!
Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles!
Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1
The pillar and foundation of TRUTH!
1 Tim 3:15
The TWO EDGE SWORD!
To proclaim the truth! Matt 28:19
To condemn error! 1 cor 16:22
Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9;4 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13) Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42
1 Tim 3:15
Fundamentalism drives a wedge between Christ and his church, separates Christ from His kingdom, and the authority of Christ from the new covenant!
1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema
Extends to the truth and the church
Cos Christ is the truth and His church teaches the truth without error! Jn 14:6 matt 28:19 matt 18:17 1 Tim 3:15 Jn 29:21-23 Jn 16:13
Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32
Authority of the Apostles!
What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?
Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!
John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!
Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!
The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!
Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20
Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22
Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.
Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.
Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments
The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4
Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20
I responded to him you can read it if you want
if you believe the “Bible alone” then why did they teach?
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
That's fine. But we non-Catholics reject the Catholic church as being those apostles. It's that simple.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
The Bible IS the doctrine of the Apostles. Anybody who claims to be an apostle who adds to it, or steers the people of God away from it is to be rejected as an apostle from God. They have failed the test.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
That's fine. We just don't think the Catholic church is in that line of succession. That's why we abandoned the Catholic church.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Which is why we don't follow your church. You have deviated from the word of Christ and the Apostles. The Catholic church has shown itself to not be apostles of Christ.
For centuries the RCC has said that there is no salvation outside the church.
Then they changed it to, one can be saved outside the church but must join the RCC and keep communion to keep that salvation.
And the list goes on!
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
Those who make themselves the only arbiter of truth!
They put themselves in the place of God!
God alone can determine truth and morals!
We must in humility be taught of God and Christ thru His church and apostles!
Pride, presumption, and arrogance are the high virtures of Protestantism fundamentalism!
Jn 1:16-17 grace and truth come by Jesus Christ!
Jn 14:6 Jesus Christ is truth!
1 Tim 3:15 the church is the pillar of truth!
We must be taught or instructed:
Lk 1:4
Matt 28:19
Jn 20:21
Acts 8:31
They put themselves in the place of God!
God alone can determine truth and morals!
We must in humility be taught of God and Christ thru His church and apostles!
Pride, presumption, and arrogance are the high virtures of Protestantism fundamentalism!
Jn 1:16-17 grace and truth come by Jesus Christ!
Jn 14:6 Jesus Christ is truth!
1 Tim 3:15 the church is the pillar of truth!
We must be taught or instructed:
Lk 1:4
Matt 28:19
Jn 20:21
Acts 8:31
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
On the authority of the calling and gifting of God. We just don't think your Catholic hierarchy has that gifting or calling. We base that mainly on your false and erroneous theology of justification/salvation. We don't consider anyone who teaches a false justification/salvation to be called, sent, and gifted by God. It's that simple. This is the fundamental reason why we tore away from you and why there is a Catholic church and all the rest of us.
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
In the Catholic Church, they claim that the rule of faith is both the Bible, and the traditions of the Catholic Church.
But Jesus condemned traditions that make void the Word of God (Which is what the traditions of the Catholic Church does).
Catholics have extra biblical teachings of praying to the dead (Which is necromancy), and bowing down to statues (Which is idolatry).
Catholics place Mary as some kind of co-redeemer next to Christ when that is a blatant lie against the Scriptures. So their authority is not really the Bible, but it is the traditions of the Catholic Church (Which is their real authority). Many Catholics who started to really take their Bible seriously in what it says stopped being Catholic. They decided to side with God in what His Word says over the traditions of religious men (Who like to look holy in front of others when they are not holy).
But Jesus condemned traditions that make void the Word of God (Which is what the traditions of the Catholic Church does).
Catholics have extra biblical teachings of praying to the dead (Which is necromancy), and bowing down to statues (Which is idolatry).
Catholics place Mary as some kind of co-redeemer next to Christ when that is a blatant lie against the Scriptures. So their authority is not really the Bible, but it is the traditions of the Catholic Church (Which is their real authority). Many Catholics who started to really take their Bible seriously in what it says stopped being Catholic. They decided to side with God in what His Word says over the traditions of religious men (Who like to look holy in front of others when they are not holy).
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