What benefit does it produce to make Jesus God

[RLT63]

I have learned that it is good to compare your primary bible with that of others.

I like Blue Letter Bible online. They have just about every version and with the click of a button you can compare

 

[RLT63]

is that the translation our Jehovah Witnesses use?

They use New World Translation. Wrangler has been quoting the Voice I don't know his denomination

 

[Wrangler]

Including the irrevocable fact Jesus was God and as such was the I Am, I Exist, before anything was created at all.

Pure invention, independent of the actual word of God. Jesus is the Son of God. Sons are, by definition, created Beings.

Trinitarians insist a word meaning ‘created Being’ is really an uncreated Being.

 

[Johann]

I like Blue Letter Bible online. They have just about every version and with the click of a button you can compare

Excellent
For example
John 1:8

Joh 1:18 No man has ever seen God at any time; the only unique Son, or the only begotten God, Who is in the bosom [in the intimate presence] of the Father, He has declared Him [He has revealed Him and brought Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him and He has made Him known]. [Pro_8:30]
AMP

Joh 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the one and only, God, the one who is in the bosom of the Father—that one has made him [*Here the direct object is supplied from context in the English translation] known.

Joh 1:18 No one has ever seen Hashem [Ex 33:20]. It is Elohim the Ben Yachid [who shares the nature of Hashem, the Chochman Ben Elohim at his side, see very importantly Mishle 8:30; 30:4)], it is he, the one being in the kheyk (bosom) of HaAv, this one is Hashem's definitive midrash (exegesis).
OJB


Joh 1:18 No man hath seene God at any time: the onely begotten Sonne, which is in the bosome of the Father, he hath declared him.
KJV.

Is it Son, or God?

 

[Wrangler]

I'm interested in those who would read blasphemers who slur Jesus

It is hardly a slur to Jesus to say his name is above all names - except God’s name YHWH. This is consistent with Christianity’s end game at
1 Cor 15:23-28.

By contrast, your dogma contradicts so much of Scripture, the Sh’ma, 1C, 1 COR 8:6, John 17:3, etc. ‘For us, there is one God, the Father.’ You got nothing that comes close to ‘The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit who are co-equal, co-substantial and co-eternal - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever.’

 

[Johann]

Pure invention, independent of the actual word of God. Jesus is the Son of God. Sons are, by definition, created Beings.

Actually, you need to read the Scriptures with Jewish lenses, as the Jews understood the Huios ton Theos as YHVH.
Already addressed this point, it's somewhere.
What you are implying, if I read correctly, is that Jesus is a "created being"

 

[RLT63]

Actually, you need to read the Scriptures with Jewish lenses, as the Jews understood the Huios ton Theos as YHVH.
Already addressed this point, it's somewhere.
What you are implying, if I read correctly, is that Jesus is a "created being"

I think Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus was the archangel Michael before the incarnation. Not sure about others here. Some deny the virgin birth. Some say Jesus' was created.

 

[Phoneman777]

I can't get anyone to answer this honest question. All I get back is because the Bible says so. But there must be a reason for it. What is it? Here I will give you a reason why he had to be a man.

Romans says a man (Adam) caused sin to enter into the world, and also that a man would have to redeem it from sin. Romans 5:15 says “For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.” The Bible specifically says that a man must do it. The book of Corinthians makes the same point Romans does when it says “For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead” (1 Corinthians 15:21).

Now it's your turn. Anyone?

Like quietthinker said, making Jesus our God demands we first abdicate the throne to Him...an absolute necessity if we're to be saved.

The "mystery of iniquity" is the inexplicable desire of the creature to exalt himself to the level of his Creator, while the "mystery of Godliness" is the inexplicable redeeming love that compelled our Creator to humble Himself to the level of His creatures.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

It is hardly a slur to Jesus to say his name is above all names - except God’s name YHWH. This is consistent with Christianity’s end game at
1 Cor 15:23-28.

By contrast, your dogma contradicts so much of Scripture, the Sh’ma, 1C, 1 COR 8:6, John 17:3, etc. ‘For us, there is one God, the Father.’ You got nothing that comes close to ‘The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit who are co-equal, co-substantial and co-eternal - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever.’

Rather, it demonstrates an agenda that is anti-gospel.
Why do you prefer not to be saved by the only savior?


Isaiah 43:
''I even I, am the LORD,
And there is no savior besides Me.''

12“It is I who have declared and saved and proclaimed,
And there was no strange god among you;
So you are My witnesses,” declares the LORD,
“And I am God.

13“Even from eternity I am He,
And there is none who can deliver out of My hand;
I act and who can reverse it?”

What Does the Bible Say About Immanuel?


Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 7:
The Sign of Immanuel
10 Again the Lord spoke to Ahaz: 11 “Ask a sign of the Lord your[f] God; let it be deep as Sheol or high as heaven.” 12 But Ahaz said, “I will not ask, and I will not put the Lord to the test.” 13 And heg[g] said, “Hear then, O house of David! Is it too little for you to weary men, that you weary my God also? 14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.[h] 15 He shall eat curds and honey when he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good. 16 For before the boy knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land whose two kings you dread will be deserted. 17 The Lord will bring upon you and upon your people and upon your father's house such days as have not come since the day that Ephraim departed from Judah—the king of Assyria!”

18 In that day the Lord will whistle for the fly that is at the end of the streams of Egypt, and for the bee that is in the land of Assyria. 19 And they will all come and settle in the steep ravines, and in the clefts of the rocks, and on all the thornbushes, and on all the pastures.[i]

20 In that day the Lord will shave with a razor that is hired beyond the River[j]—with the king of Assyria—the head and the hair of the feet, and it will sweep away the beard also.

21 In that day a man will keep alive a young cow and two sheep, 22 and because of the abundance of milk that they give, he will eat curds, for everyone who is left in the land will eat curds and honey.

23 In that day every place where there used to be a thousand vines, worth a thousand shekelsk[k] of silver, will become briers and thorns. 24 With bow and arrows a man will come there, for all the land will be briers and thorns. 25 And as for all the hills that used to be hoed with a hoe, you will not come there for fear of briers and thorns, but they will become a place where cattle are let loose and where sheep tread.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

I think Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus was the archangel Michael before the incarnation. Not sure about others here. Some deny the virgin birth. Some say Jesus' was created.

Some who appear as JW may not be so.
What Jehovah Witnesses Believe About Jesus? - Proven Way

2. What Are The Basic Beliefs Of Jehovah’s Witnesses? How Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Interpret the Bible?They believe that God is the Supreme Being and the Creator of the universe.Witnesses are opposed to the notion of the Trinity, which they believe is unscriptural.They regard God as the Father, an invisible spirit ″person″ who is distinct from the Son, Jesus Christ, according to their beliefs.My parents disowned me when I converted from Jehovah’s Witnesses to Christianity.They believe that Jesus is God’s sole direct creation, that all else was formed through Christ by means of God’s power, and that the first unaided act of creation is what distinguishes Jesus as the ″only-begotten Son″ of the Father.

To compensate for the sins of humanity, Jesus worked as both a redeemer and a ransom sacrifice on the cross.As opposed to the customary cross, they believe Jesus was crucified on a single vertical post.The biblical titles for the Archangel Michael, Abaddon (Apollyon), and the Word are all regarded as names for Jesus in various capacities, according to certain scholars. Those who belong to the Jehovah’s Witnesses think that their religion represents a revival of first-century Christianity. When the Governing Body determines the doctrine of Jehovah’s Witnesses, it takes on the responsibility of understanding and implementing scripture. However, rather than issuing a single, complete ″statement of faith,″ the Governing Body seeks to articulate its theological viewpoint in a number of ways through the Watch Tower Society’s publications and other means of communication.

 

[Phoneman777]

I think Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus was the archangel Michael before the incarnation. Not sure about others here. Some deny the virgin birth. Some say Jesus' was created.

That was actually a commonly accepted doctrine before the 20th century, supported by many verses and believed and taught by many popular commentators and preachers like Matthew Henry, Charles Spurgeon, etc., none of which believed He was anything less than God in the highest sense of the word. They taught that in the OT He would manifest Himself as an angel and take the name "Mee-chi-el" which means "Who is like God", just as He manifested Himself in the flesh in the NT and took the name "Jesus". It was only when the JWs began twisting these supporting verses to "prove" that Jesus was nothing more than a created being that it became stigmatized and rejected because it's easier to blanket condemn than to roll up one's sleeves and get to the bottom of an issue.

 

[RLT63]

Some who appear as JW may not be so.
What Jehovah Witnesses Believe About Jesus? - Proven Way

2. What Are The Basic Beliefs Of Jehovah’s Witnesses? How Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Interpret the Bible?They believe that God is the Supreme Being and the Creator of the universe.Witnesses are opposed to the notion of the Trinity, which they believe is unscriptural.They regard God as the Father, an invisible spirit ″person″ who is distinct from the Son, Jesus Christ, according to their beliefs.My parents disowned me when I converted from Jehovah’s Witnesses to Christianity.They believe that Jesus is God’s sole direct creation, that all else was formed through Christ by means of God’s power, and that the first unaided act of creation is what distinguishes Jesus as the ″only-begotten Son″ of the Father.

To compensate for the sins of humanity, Jesus worked as both a redeemer and a ransom sacrifice on the cross.As opposed to the customary cross, they believe Jesus was crucified on a single vertical post.The biblical titles for the Archangel Michael, Abaddon (Apollyon), and the Word are all regarded as names for Jesus in various capacities, according to certain scholars. Those who belong to the Jehovah’s Witnesses think that their religion represents a revival of first-century Christianity. When the Governing Body determines the doctrine of Jehovah’s Witnesses, it takes on the responsibility of understanding and implementing scripture. However, rather than issuing a single, complete ″statement of faith,″ the Governing Body seeks to articulate its theological viewpoint in a number of ways through the Watch Tower Society’s publications and other means of communication.

I had a friend that was a JW and I could visit her at home and go to the Kingdom Hall with her but she was not allowed to go on a date with me. I went with her one time when they had communion and they passed bread and wine around and everyone refused it. Only a couple of elders were allowed to take communion.

 

[RLT63]

That was actually a commonly accepted doctrine before the 20th century, supported by many verses and believed and taught by many popular commentators and preachers like Matthew Henry, Charles Spurgeon, etc., none of which believed He was anything less than God in the highest sense of the word. They taught that in the OT He would manifest Himself as an angel and take the name "Mee-chi-el" which means "Who is like God", just as He manifested Himself in the flesh in the NT and took the name "Jesus". It was only when the JWs began twisting these supporting verses to "prove" that Jesus was nothing more than a created being that it became stigmatized and rejected because it's easier to blanket condemn than to roll up one's sleeves and get to the bottom of an issue.

I believe he may appear in the Old Testament as The Angel of The Lord. The Angel of The Lord speaks as God. I have no reason to believe he was an archangel.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Odd it would be passed around then, isn't it?

I had a friend that was a JW and I could visit her at home and go to the Kingdom Hall with her but she was not allowed to go on a date with me. I went with her one time when they had communion and they passed bread and wine around and everyone refused it. Only a couple of elders were allowed to take communion.

 

[RLT63]

Odd it would be passed around then, isn't it?

It was very strange to me. She told me before it came to us " Don't eat it "

 

[Phoneman777]

I believe he may appear in the Old Testament as The Angel of The Lord. The Angel of The Lord speaks as God. I have no reason to believe he was an archangel.

Those 19th century scholars had good reason to believe it. They're actually pretty solid.

For instance, we read "Michael and His angels" - but to Whom do the angels actually belong? Just search "his angels" in Scripture and you'll see all the texts which refer to them being made by and belonging to God Himself...so either the LORD and Michael share custody of the angels or Michael was the LORD Jesus in the OT.

Also, Michael is called the "Great Prince" in Daniel 12, but Messiah is merely called "Prince" in Daniel 9. Is Michael greater than Jesus? No way.

Don't get me wrong: I'm not demanding anyone accept the doctrine, especially since the reasons for doing so are so completely unknown to most Christians, and it's human nature to fear and avoid the unknown.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

It was very strange to me. She told me before it came to us " Don't eat it "

Did you ask why?

 

[RLT63]

Did you ask why?

I didn't. From what I understand JWs believe that they will be resurrected and live on earth and that only 144,000 will go to Heaven. I assumed the elders must make up the 144,000

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

I didn't. From what I understand JWs believe that they will be resurrected and live on earth and that only 144,000 will go to Heaven. I assumed the elders must make up the 144,000

Those 144,000 were predestined.

Makes ya wonder why they knock on doors to make converts.

 

[RLT63]

Those 19th century scholars had good reason to believe it. They're actually pretty solid.

For instance, we read "Michael and His angels" - but to Whom do the angels actually belong? Just search "his angels" in Scripture and you'll see all the texts which refer to them being made by and belonging to God Himself...so either the LORD and Michael share custody of the angels or Michael was the LORD Jesus in the OT.

Also, Michael is called the "Great Prince" in Daniel 12, but Messiah is merely called "Prince" in Daniel 9. Is Michael greater than Jesus? No way.

Don't get me wrong: I'm not demanding anyone accept the doctrine, especially since the reasons for doing so are so completely unknown to most Christians, and it's human nature to fear and avoid the unknown.

Michael's angels are the 1/3 he is archangel over just as Lucifer has 1/3 that are swept from Heaven with him. In Daniel he battles with enemy spirits, wouldn't Jesus just have authority over them as he did when casting out demons? In Jude it's said that Michael contended with Satan over the body of Moses and said " The Lord rebuke you ". I don't think these are things Jesus would be doing. Michael is the defender of Israel from what I understand