Gnosticism

[Wrangler]

I heard on the Moody Radio show today Gnosticism defined as "the belief that knowledge about God leads to salvation rather than faith in Christ."

Although gnosticism has become a bad word and I doubt anyone here would admit to being Gnostic, there is at least one member here who seems to fit that definition. So, I wanted to open this up for discussion.

In practice, it seems Gnosticism is a burden to the child of God, a works based Gospel. Thoughts?

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Gnosticism was a second century religious movement claiming that salvation could be gained through a special form of secret knowledge.
The Gnostic teachers and their beliefs were condemned as heretical by early church fathers.
Cult practices and thoughts of late and early Christian centuries.
Look @ Wikipedia's explanation.....lol mystical or esoteric insights.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

You need to research before you post.......sadly lacking. Has absolutely nothing to do with works based gospel. They ignored sin & repentance and focused on illusion & enlightment.

Far cry from anything of God ! Nearer the devils alley, just as rebellion against God is as witchcraft.

 

[Wrangler]

You need to research before you post.......sadly lacking. Has absolutely nothing to do with works based gospel.

Sorry I disappointed you.

So, you deny obtaining salvation by the work of obtaining knowledge is a works based gospel? LOL

Gnosticism was a second century religious movement claiming that salvation could be gained through a special form of secret knowledge.

 

[Wrangler]

The goal of Christianity is NOT to be a Bible student!

Can you admit this is true, yes or no?

A resounding NO!

I started this thread on Gnosticism, with this exchange and you in mind.

I am so, so sorry to realize your faith is void of the Spirit of God, of the righteousness achieved through faith. You rely on works, of your own knowledge, which explains so much! Why you write longer posts than most. Why JW prohibits its members gain knowledge from sources it does not approve of. Why dissension among the JW ranks cannot be allowed. And why my SIL and his family was the target of coercive squads.


What if I could prophesy and understand all mysteries and all knowledge? And what if I had faith that moved mountains?
I would be nothing, unless I loved others.
1 Corinthians 13:2 (CEV)

36 “Teacher, what is the most important commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus answered:
Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind. 38 This is the first and most important commandment. 39 The second most important commandment is like this one. And it is, “Love others as much as you love yourself.”
Matthew 22:36-39

I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings. (NOTE: Not share understanding of all mysteries and all knowledge)
1 Corinthians 9:22-23 (NIV)

 

[L.A.M.B.]

@Wrangler
Lol you are not the first nor will you be the last.

Oooops I'm sorry but seeing your exchange with A. Jane, I assumed you too were JW. I'm sorry.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

All the hobgoblin of these seemingly endless nonsense posts ( not yours alone) is wearing on my soul!

Does nobody want to talk about God nor his word?

Does every single person have it's own agenda with it's own propaganda ?

I feel like a kid in a play ground around here. Same simpletons, same blow hard bullies.

We must resurrect the altar and I'm just afraid I might force some to go there. They have nothing to offer but blah, blah, blah !

 

[Robert Gwin]

I heard on the Moody Radio show today Gnosticism defined as "the belief that knowledge about God leads to salvation rather than faith in Christ."

Although gnosticism has become a bad word and I doubt anyone here would admit to being Gnostic, there is at least one member here who seems to fit that definition. So, I wanted to open this up for discussion.

In practice, it seems Gnosticism is a burden to the child of God, a works based Gospel. Thoughts?

Knowledge is definitely a requirement Wrangler, those who do not know God upon Jesus return get destroyed 2 Thes 1:6-9

 

[Wrangler]

Knowledge is definitely a requirement Wrangler, those who do not know God upon Jesus return get destroyed 2 Thes 1:6-9

The verse is not stating knowledge is a requirement for salvation. What are you saying knowledge is a requirement for?

 

[Robert Gwin]

The verse is not stating knowledge is a requirement for salvation. What are you saying knowledge is a requirement for?

What is knowledge Wrangler? The verse was quite clear, those who do not know God will be destroyed upon Jesus' return. Knowledge is extremely important for salvation. Jehovah has always been an educator, and commanded us to instill His words into our children as well Deut 6:6,7

These last days are no exception sir, He instructs us in His ways, so that we can walk in His paths Isa 2:2,3, feeding us through the assigned faithful slave until Jesus' return. Mat 24:45-47

 

[Wrangler]

What is knowledge Wrangler? The verse was quite clear, those who do not know God will be destroyed upon Jesus' return. Knowledge is extremely important for salvation.

You can say knowledge is important all day long; it is not a requirement for salvation or the purpose of Christianity.

Knowledge is secondary. This is the lesson of Original Sin.

The lesson of Original Sin is that trust and obedience to God is primary. This is how we demonstrate what we know. The knowledge is experiential, not academic.

We are not going to be saved by knowing ABOUT God academically. We will only be saved when we are sealed by the Holy Spirit. And when we are we will know it.

 

[Robert Gwin]

You can say knowledge is important all day long; it is not a requirement for salvation or the purpose of Christianity.

Knowledge is secondary. This is the lesson of Original Sin.

The lesson of Original Sin is that trust and obedience to God is primary. This is how we demonstrate what we know. The knowledge is experiential, not academic.

We are not going to be saved by knowing ABOUT God academically. We will only be saved when we are sealed by the Holy Spirit. And when we are we will know it.

It is just a part of it Wrangler, and for most of us it is important, but I do agree with you, it solely is not a requirement. What if a person is incapable of learning? Is God so evil that one would not have a chance? Of course not! In fact, if God is righteous, it would be automatic, don't you think sir? Have we discussed the parable of the talents Wrangler? If not do you see the comparison sir?

 

[Behold]

In practice, it seems Gnosticism is a burden to the child of God, a works based Gospel. Thoughts?

The Father of Gnosticism , Valentinus, almost became a POPE.

There is a lot of misinformation about Gnostics, Gnosticism, found on forums like this one.

Here is the main thing you need to know, reader.

Gnostics, related to true Gnosticism, ...do not believe that Sin exists, and they do not believe that Christ is necessary, as there is no need for Him to die for what does not exist, Gnosticism teaches.

Probably the two most famous contemporary Gnostics would be Mary Baker Eddy, and L. Ron Hubbard (Scientology), both of whom deny the existence of SIN.

 

[Wrangler]

It is just a part of it Wrangler, and for most of us it is important, but I do agree with you, it solely is not a requirement.

We are not talking about parts. We are talking about PURPOSE. The simple statement is the PURPOSE of Christianity is NOT to be students of the Bible.

Do you agree?

 

[Wrangler]

Have we discussed the parable of the talents Wrangler? If not do you see the comparison sir?

Yes. The parable of the Talents is about DOING the will of God.

The Will of God is as obvious as the sun in the sky and does not require esoteric knowledge of astronomy, quantum mechanics, physics, etc.

The parable of the Talents is NOT about the secret or better knowledge one of the servants had in HOW he specifically doubled the ROI over the other servant.

The parable of the Talents contrasts 2 obedient and loving servants to a wicked and resentful servant.

 

[Raccoon1010]

I heard on the Moody Radio show today Gnosticism defined as "the belief that knowledge about God leads to salvation rather than faith in Christ."

Although gnosticism has become a bad word and I doubt anyone here would admit to being Gnostic, there is at least one member here who seems to fit that definition. So, I wanted to open this up for discussion.

In practice, it seems Gnosticism is a burden to the child of God, a works based Gospel. Thoughts?

Faith without works is dead. So yes works are required. We must do the will of the Father. Knowledge of the gospel can be attained by good and evil spirits and persons. Knowledge of the gospel doesn't guarantee salvation in any way. At least not that I can see.

 

[Behold]

Faith without works is dead. So yes works are required.

Works are required for DISCIPLESHIP........not for SALVATiON.

JESUS received by FAITH.... is required for SALVATiON.

Discipleship,= is our "presenting our body a living sacrifice", is the "work" we do, BECAUSE we have RECEIVED already, "THE GIFT of Salvation".

Babes in Christ, and heretics, do not understand that Salvation is not Discipleship.

Salvation is Christ on the Cross. Salvation is to be BORN AGAIN....... These are what God provides.

THEN..

THEN..

Now having SALVATiON, you get busy with your Discipleship.....>not to try to stay saved, but because you ARE Saved, already.

 

[Robert Gwin]

We are not talking about parts. We are talking about PURPOSE. The simple statement is the PURPOSE of Christianity is NOT to be students of the Bible.

Do you agree?

I don't quite know how to answer that Wrangler, all Christians are students of the Bible, as they are Christs disciples. The very word disciple means:
maqhthvß Mathetes (math-ay-tes');
Word Origin: Greek, Noun Masculine, Strong #: 3101
a learner, pupil, disciple

Our main focus as Christians is to bring glory to God sir. To worship and serve Jehovah exclusively obeying His commandments Mat 4:10; 1 Jn 5:3 Our assignment is to make disciples, teaching them to observe all the things Jesus commanded Mat 28:20. Obediently doing that brings glory to God Pro 27:11

1. 
   

 

[Robert Gwin]

Yes. The parable of the Talents is about DOING the will of God.

The Will of God is as obvious as the sun in the sky and does not require esoteric knowledge of astronomy, quantum mechanics, physics, etc.

The parable of the Talents is NOT about the secret or better knowledge one of the servants had in HOW he specifically doubled the ROI over the other servant.

The parable of the Talents contrasts 2 obedient and loving servants to a wicked and resentful servant.

Thanks Wrangler, your memory is definitely better than mine. We agree, it is about our assignment as Christians. Christians are not to be pew sitters, as the parable indicates.

 

[Wrangler]

We are not talking about parts. We are talking about PURPOSE. The simple statement is the PURPOSE of Christianity is NOT to be students of the Bible.

Do you agree?

I don't quite know how to answer that Wrangler,

The simple questions reveal people's agenda.

all Christians are students of the Bible, as they are Christs disciples.

No sir.

Although I cannot say the exact opposite is true, I grew up in a Catholic community. No one that I knew growing up actually read the Bible. It was considered a mountain too big to climb.

Our main focus as Christians is to bring glory to God sir.

You used the term 'main focus' whereas I used the term PURPOSE. Given this, it naturally follows that you must surely admit that the main focus of Christians is NOT to be students of the Bible. (Or are you pivoting from PURPOSE to 'main focus' while keeping your pivot foot on being student's of the Bible? <Being students of the Bible> 1st, bringing glory to God 2nd, eh? )