So , How were OT Saints saved ?

[dan p]

Hi to all and I see that many Believers say that all from Genesis through Revelation were saved by Grace , but is that what Heb 11 says ??

#1 , All have been saved by Faith .

#2 , Abel was saved by Faith , by giving the right Sacrifice , verse 4

#3 , Enoch was saved by Faith , because he Pleased God , verse 5

#4 , Noah was saved by Faith , prepared an Ark , and became Heir of Rightheousness , verse 7

#5 , Abram was saved by Faith , by obeying God , verses 8-19

#6 , Isaac and Jacob and Esau were saved Faith by believeing God , verse 20-21 .

#7, Joseph was saved by Faith , verse 22

#8 , Moses was saved by keeping the Passover , verse 28-29

We see from Heb 11 , that we are saved by Faith and their Faith caused them all to do many Different things for their salvation ,

I , see that things were different in every age , so , where is that ONE GOSPEL ??

DAN P

 

[Vengle]

Hi to all and I see that many Believers say that all from Genesis through Revelation were saved by Grace , but is that what Heb 11 says ??

#1 , All have been saved by Faith .

#2 , Abel was saved by Faith , by giving the right Sacrifice , verse 4

#3 , Enoch was saved by Faith , because he Pleased God , verse 5

#4 , Noah was saved by Faith , prepared an Ark , and became Heir of Rightheousness , verse 7

#5 , Abram was saved by Faith , by obeying God , verses 8-19

#6 , Isaac and Jacob and Esau were saved Faith by believeing God , verse 20-21 .

#7, Joseph was saved by Faith , verse 22

#8 , Moses was saved by keeping the Passover , verse 28-29

We see from Heb 11 , that we are saved by Faith and their Faith caused them all to do many Different things for their salvation ,

I , see that things were different in every age , so , where is that ONE GOSPEL ??

DAN P

Actually it is through faith by grace; which made that faith recognizable on the basis of the ransom of Christ which was so precious in God's eyes that he began crediting it to us from the foundation of the world.

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Nothing saves anything but for God's grace.

You know that; you are just hesitant to owe up to it.

Hey but you are getting there.

Are we not also yet saved through faith on the basis of God's grace to us in Christ?

 

[dan p]

Actually it is through faith by grace; which made that faith recognizable on the basis of the ransom of Christ which was so precious in God's eyes that he began crediting it to us from the foundation of the world.

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Nothing saves anything but for God's grace.

You know that; you are just hesitant to owe up to it.

Hey but you are getting there.

Are we not also yet saved through faith on the basis of God's grace to us in Christ?

Hi , and so where is the word Grace in Heb 11 ??

dan p

 

[rockytopva]

I thought the Saints were saved by hiring Drew Brees as Quarterback... Hehe... Sorry guys... Couldn't resist! :lol:

 

[biggandyy]

I see I am rubbing off on people... excellent one liner rocky!

 

[Prentis]

Hi , and so where is the word Grace in Heb 11 ??

dan p

My grace is sufficient for you, my strength is made perfect in weakness.

By faith Sarah received strength to conceive. (Heb. 11)

By faith we have access into grace.

This all speaks of one thing... Paul concludes Heb 11 with...
[sup]40[/sup] God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.

In other words, they are one with us. We complete them, and are a whole together. One faith, one God, one gospel.

 

[dan p]

My grace is sufficient for you, my strength is made perfect in weakness.

By faith Sarah received strength to conceive. (Heb. 11)

By faith we have access into grace.

This all speaks of one thing... Paul concludes Heb 11 with...
[sup]40[/sup] God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.

In other words, they are one with us. We complete them, and are a whole together. One faith, one God, one gospel.

Hi and I will have to clarify , by saying " where is the Dispensation of the Grace of God in Hebrews , si9nce Hebrews was written to Jewish believers and not the Body of Christ ". dan p

 

[Episkopos]

Hi and I will have to clarify , by saying " where is the Dispensation of the Grace of God in Hebrews , si9nce Hebrews was written to Jewish believers and not the Body of Christ ". dan p

There is no more distinction in Christ between Jewish and non-Jewish believers. Are there epistles just for men, or for slave-owners? A book might be GEARED to a certain people, the the truth applies to all. There is only one truth...one reality.

If we use your reasoning then Paul wrote exclusively to certain cities and the advice was for them ALONE.

The fact is ALL scripture is good for instruction in righteousness.

2Ti_3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

 

[dan p]

There is no more distinction in Christ between Jewish and non-Jewish believers. Are there epistles just for men, or for slave-owners? A book might be GEARED to a certain people, the the truth applies to all. There is only one truth...one reality.

If we use your reasoning then Paul wrote exclusively to certain cities and the advice was for them ALONE.

The fact is ALL scripture is good for instruction in righteousness.

2Ti_3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Hi , and do you believe that the book of EXODUS is for the Body of Christ today ??

We , do believe that it shows their Disobedience , through out their travels , dan p

 

[goodshepard55]

Oh mercy..the Word of God from cover to cover is for the body of Christ....We learn from the experiences of those in the Word....

 

[Prentis]

Hi , and do you believe that the book of EXODUS is for the Body of Christ today ??

We , do believe that it shows their Disobedience , through out their travels , dan p

Uh, yeah.

[sup]1[/sup] Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, [sup]2[/sup] all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, [sup]3[/sup] all ate the same spiritual food, [sup]4[/sup] and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. [sup]5[/sup] But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.
[sup]6[/sup] Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted. [sup]7[/sup] And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.” [sup]8[/sup] Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell; [sup]9[/sup] nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents; [sup]10[/sup] nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer. [sup]11[/sup] Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come

This is a letter to the Corinthians.

 

[dan p]

Uh, yeah.

[sup]1[/sup] Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, [sup]2[/sup] all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, [sup]3[/sup] all ate the same spiritual food, [sup]4[/sup] and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. [sup]5[/sup] But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.
[sup]6[/sup] Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted. [sup]7[/sup] And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.” [sup]8[/sup] Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell; [sup]9[/sup] nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents; [sup]10[/sup] nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer. [sup]11[/sup] Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come

This is a letter to the Corinthians.

Hi , so you believe that 1 Cor 10:1-6 , especially verse 6 that Exodus was written for our EXAMPLE so we will not Lust as the Jews Lusted and why Paul wrote 2 Tim 3:16 . dan p

 

[Episkopos]

Hi , and do you believe that the book of EXODUS is for the Body of Christ today ??

We , do believe that it shows their Disobedience , through out their travels , dan p

If you cannot accept that ALL scripture is inspired for ALL followers of God, then you are an imposter and a bringer of division. This is a Christian forum and you are obviously NOT a brother.

 

[dan p]

If you cannot accept that ALL scripture is inspired for ALL followers of God, then you are an imposter and a bringer of division. This is a Christian forum and you are obviously NOT a brother.

Hi , and I do not know how you come to that conclusion, and I believe all scripture is Inspired , and you are just seem Frustrated by my Posts that you can see or answe bibically .

In 2 Peter 3:15 , Peter says that Paul has written to them , and I believe that is the book of Hebrews .

But , verse 16 is more Damaging to those that refuse to believe what Paul has written , ans this is what Peter says .

#1 , Peter say that what Paul writes is hard to be understood , for Paul writes about Grace and not about the Law !

#2 , Peter says that those who do not know Pauline truth are Un-LEARNED !!

#3 , Peter , says that those who do not unerstand Pauline truth are UNSTABLE !!

#4 , The Un-learned and Un-stable have to Twist or Wrest the scripture to there own Destruction !!

Hope that is not you ? dan p

 

[Episkopos]

Hi , and I do not know how you come to that conclusion, and I believe all scripture is Inspired , and you are just seem Frustrated by my Posts that you can see or answe bibically .

In 2 Peter 3:15 , Peter says that Paul has written to them , and I believe that is the book of Hebrews .

But , verse 16 is more Damaging to those that refuse to believe what Paul has written , ans this is what Peter says .

#1 , Peter say that what Paul writes is hard to be understood , for Paul writes about Grace and not about the Law !

#2 , Peter says that those who do not know Pauline truth are Un-LEARNED !!

#3 , Peter , says that those who do not unerstand Pauline truth are UNSTABLE !!

#4 , The Un-learned and Un-stable have to Twist or Wrest the scripture to there own Destruction !!

Hope that is not you ? dan p

How long have you been studying under Pauline?

 

[dan p]

How long have you been studying under Pauline?

Hi , and it has been a long journey of 40 years and read 2 Peter 3:16 as to why you should also study Paul , and because Paul is the Apostle to the GENTILES , thats WHY !!! DAN P

 

[biggandyy]

Ahhh.. the Perils of Pauline... looks like they got damp disabled

 

[RichardBurger]

Ahhh.. the Perils of Pauline... looks like they got damp disabled

The scriptures plainly tell us that Jesus sent Paul to the Gentiles and yet in the modern Christain Church his writings always take a back sent.

Those that ignore Paul's writings are IMHO, on their way to hell.

Were the people of God in the OT saved by grace, IN THE SAME WAY WE ARE TODAY, under Paul's gospel of God's grace?

IMHO my answer is NO. They were under God's mercy, not under the gospel of God's grace." Read Psalm 136. The word "mercy" is used 26 times in 26 verses! This is the Biblical testimony as to how God worked in the Old Testament, through His mercy.

I believe the OT saints were placed in a place called Paradise by God's mercy to either wait for the promised Christ (Jesus) or to wait for His second coming and His 1000 year reign. He overlooked their sin in the flesh and placed them in a place called Paradise.

IMHO their coming out of Hades is what Jesus meant when he said the Gates of Hades will not prevail against His Church by preventing them from coming out and into the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ during which Jesus will set up His Church.

I have said what I believe, now I will show you why. Let us see what the Scriptures tell us.

We see that Jesus went from the cross to be three days in the heart of the earth.
Matt 12:40
40 "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
(NKJ)

We see what he did while He was there.
1 Pet 3:19
19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison,
(NKJ) ----- (prison = Paradise = center of the earth)

We must consider that when Jesus told the thief on the cross that "TODAY" you will be with me in Paradise" He meant with Him in the heart of the earth and that means that Paradise, AT THAT TIME, was a section in Hades spoken of by Jesus in Luke 16:19-26.

The spirits are the O.T. spirits of the people that believed God and were accounted as righteous and placed in the bosom of Abraham until Jesus paid for their sins. Accounted does not mean that any of them had their sins washed in the blood of Christ since it had not yet been shed.

Remember the story Jesus told about the rich man and the beggar named Lazarus (Luke 16:19-26) The beggar was placed in Abraham's bosom, not Jesus' bosom. However, today, we are placed in Jesus' bosom (in Christ) and "perhaps" we join those that were put there when they left Paradise.

So then, the OT saints were "accounted as righteous" but not yet righteous, because their sins had not yet been paid for.

We, today, under the gospel of God's grace which is in effect today, are made Children of God right now. We are made righteous right now when we place our faith in Him because the sin debt has already been paid. According to Paul, today, when a believer dies, he is instantly in the presence of Jesus.

Gal 3:8-9
8 And the Scripture, """"foreseeing that God would"" justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham """"beforehand,""" saying, "In you all the nations shall be blessed."
9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.
(NKJ)

If you look at the words between the """" """" you see that the gospel of justification under grace (the gospel of God's grace) was not an accomplished fact ""AT THAT TIME"" but was told it would occur in the future. I believe it occurred after Jesus died on the cross, was raised from the dead, and God sent Paul to proclaim it.

 

[Episkopos]

The scriptures plainly tell us that Jesus sent Paul to the Gentiles and yet in the modern Christain Church his writings always take a back sent.

Those that ignore Paul's writings are IMHO, on their way to hell.

Were the people of God in the OT saved by grace, IN THE SAME WAY WE ARE TODAY, under Paul's gospel of God's grace?

IMHO my answer is NO. They were under God's mercy, not under the gospel of God's grace." Read Psalm 136. The word "mercy" is used 26 times in 26 verses! This is the Biblical testimony as to how God worked in the Old Testament, through His mercy.

I believe the OT saints were placed in a place called Paradise by God's mercy to either wait for the promised Christ (Jesus) or to wait for His second coming and His 1000 year reign. He overlooked their sin in the flesh and placed them in a place called Paradise.

IMHO their coming out of Hades is what Jesus meant when he said the Gates of Hades will not prevail against His Church by preventing them from coming out and into the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ during which Jesus will set up His Church.

I have said what I believe, now I will show you why. Let us see what the Scriptures tell us.

We see that Jesus went from the cross to be three days in the heart of the earth.
Matt 12:40
40 "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
(NKJ)

We see what he did while He was there.
1 Pet 3:19
19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison,
(NKJ) ----- (prison = Paradise = center of the earth)

We must consider that when Jesus told the thief on the cross that "TODAY" you will be with me in Paradise" He meant with Him in the heart of the earth and that means that Paradise, AT THAT TIME, was a section in Hades spoken of by Jesus in Luke 16:19-26.

The spirits are the O.T. spirits of the people that believed God and were accounted as righteous and placed in the bosom of Abraham until Jesus paid for their sins. Accounted does not mean that any of them had their sins washed in the blood of Christ since it had not yet been shed.

Remember the story Jesus told about the rich man and the beggar named Lazarus (Luke 16:19-26) The beggar was placed in Abraham's bosom, not Jesus' bosom. However, today, we are placed in Jesus' bosom (in Christ) and "perhaps" we join those that were put there when they left Paradise.

So then, the OT saints were "accounted as righteous" but not yet righteous, because their sins had not yet been paid for.

We, today, under the gospel of God's grace which is in effect today, are made Children of God right now. We are made righteous right now when we place our faith in Him because the sin debt has already been paid. According to Paul, today, when a believer dies, he is instantly in the presence of Jesus.

Gal 3:8-9
8 And the Scripture, """"foreseeing that God would"" justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham """"beforehand,""" saying, "In you all the nations shall be blessed."
9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.
(NKJ)

If you look at the words between the """" """" you see that the gospel of justification under grace (the gospel of God's grace) was not an accomplished fact ""AT THAT TIME"" but was told it would occur in the future. I believe it occurred after Jesus died on the cross, was raised from the dead, and God sent Paul to proclaim it.

Being indwelt by Paul doesn't have the same effect as being indwelt by Jesus Christ.

 

[RichardBurger]

Being indwelt by Paul doesn't have the same effect as being indwelt by Jesus Christ.

A very stupid statement that has no value except to foster anger. A very loving thing to do isn't it?

By the way, perhapes you ought to really study the scriptures for what they really say instead of figuring out how to offend others.

The children of God are not indwelt by Jesus, they are indwelt by the Holy Spirit.