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Why do my questions upset JW's?I wonder how many people have Jack on ignore? Be interesting to run a survey - rather embarrassing really. I would feel some pity for him if it wasn't for his obsession with JW's. Why not the Mormons - now that would make more sense!
Can you provide scripture for this assertion? Humans cannot exist in the spirit realm....which is why Christ was raised by his Father in spirit form (1 Peter 3:18)....he would need spirit "form".....you know, the "form" Yahweh has, in order to exist in the heavenly realm.That is why Christ ------ continues for eternity in human form.
There is the plural of majesty....the royal "WE"....and besides the scriptures plainly tell us that God was not alone in creation....all creation came "through" the agency of God's Son, (Colossians 1:15-17; John 1:2-3) like an architect creates a building through or by means of a construction company....there is only one Creator and the scriptures never call Jesus by that designation.As to the use of "our" it is further evidence that God is three in one -- the triune Godhead or the Trinity. And the Hebrew word for God -- Elohim -- is in fact a plural word. All Hebrew nouns which end in "-im" indicate plurality such as seraph (singular) and seraphim (plural).
That is nonsense....Only for Anti-Trinitarians. So why did you fail to explain why God is in the plural form. Because the minute you would explain it honestly, you would have to admit to the truth of the Trinity.
In the KJV, "begotten" is alot different than "brought forth" in Proverbs 8:22-31.We know that God Isn't begotten, the word begotten means, to produce, to bring into existence. Humans produce by procreation God produces or brings into existence by creating. The angels are spirit beings and God begot them by creating each one into existence.
We also know that no one produced God or brought him into existence.YHWH God is the only True God and is the creator of all things.
In scripture the apostle John repeatedly describes the Lord Jesus Christ as the only-begotten Son of God. (John 1:14; 3:16, 18; 1John 4:9) This is not referring to his human birth or to him as just the man Jesus. As the Logos, or Word, “this one was in the beginning with God,” even “before the world was.” (John 1:1, 2; 17:5, 24) At that time while in his prehuman state of existence, he is described as the “only-begotten Son” whom his Father sent “into the world" at 1John 4:9.
I agree. There is no third Person of the Godhead of Two.Can you provide scripture for this assertion? Humans cannot exist in the spirit realm....which is why Christ was raised by his Father in spirit form (1 Peter 3:18)....he would need spirit "form".....you know, the "form" Yahweh has, in order to exist in the heavenly realm.
Humans are air breathers, confined to planet Earth which supplies their every material need.
There is the plural of majesty....the royal "WE"....and besides the scriptures plainly tell us that God was not alone in creation....all creation came "through" the agency of God's Son, (Colossians 1:15-17; John 1:2-3) like an architect creates a building through or by means of a construction company....there is only one Creator and the scriptures never call Jesus by that designation.
That is nonsense....
If you want to believe that there are three gods, Enoch, you go ahead...no one is saying you can't believe whatever you wish....but believing it doesn't make it true.....the majority of Jews thought Jesus was a fake Messiah....were they right? They thought so....convinced enough to curse themselves and their children with his blood. (Matthew 27:25)
The Jews did not believe in a trinity, and the the first Christians were all Jewish.....Jesus himself was Jewish, so it would have been blasphemy to claim to be God incarnate. He only ever said he was "the Son of God"....never once is he called..."God the Son".
In the KJV, "begotten" is alot different than "brought forth" in Proverbs 8:22-31.
To be "brought forth" from "everlasting", is to be "brought forth" out from the eternity of God Himself, of which also establishes the eternal being of Jesus, before the world was created.
Perhaps we can therefore speculate that "in our image and our likeness"
PS- Incidentally why did God use the plural "our" in Gen 1:26, why didn't he say "in my image"?
KJV Colossians 1:10-18I understand and that's your opinion. However Jesus himself spoke of his prehuman heavenly life. (John 3:13; 6:38, 62; 8:23, 42, 58) John chapter 1:1&2 says: “In the beginning the Word(Logos) was, and the Word was with God. This one was in the beginning with God.” Since YHWH God is eternal and had no beginning (Psalm 90:2; Revelation 15:3), the Word's being with God from “the beginning” here refers to the beginning of YHWH God creative works. This is confirmed by other texts identifying Jesus as “the firstborn of all creation,” “the beginning of the creation by God.” (Colossians 1:15; Revelations 1:1; 3:14) So the Scriptures identify the Word (Jesus in his prehuman existence) as God’s first creation, his firstborn Son. The point is YHWH God has no beginning, the scriptures show that Jesus who is YHWH God only begotten Son, had a beginning. Colossians 1:15; Revelations 1:1; 3:14
Is this assertion based on Jesus materializing human form to convince his apostles that he was indeed resurrected?Someone mentioned God's form, it is as our physical atanomy except without the blood
This is 'personification' of the Almighty to help lessen the enormous gulf between humans and our Creator. He presents himself in human terms to help us to see him as a loving Father in whom we can place our implicit trust. He uses human terms to describe his relationship with his "firstborn" son. He calls the angels "sons of God" but these are spirits who have no human form unless they materialize. When their assignment was completed they dematerialized and returned to the spirit realm......Jesus did too. Beings of flesh cannot exist outside of Earth's atmosphere without life support. Jesus was 'caught away in a cloud' as he ascended to his Father....his disciples did not see him dematerialize...but he could not take his fleshly body to heaven.in that he has a head, a torso, hands and feet. There is scripture to back all these parts up.
The descriptions are not literal but figurative. He is an eternal spirit, so he has no physical form.Do some simple research to find our counterparts of God's physicality.
You might like this Jacob wrestling with the angel - WikipediaI particularly like ... Jacob wrestling with God.
There is no doubt that the Father, the son and the holy spirit are all involved in our spiritual journey to salvation, but nowhere are the three said to be "one God". The apostles confirmed that their "one God" was Yahweh..."the Father". (1 Corinthians 8:5-6) Yahweh is the Father of Jesus as well as us, and hence the Lord's Prayer was addressed to "OUR Father". Yahweh is still his God, even in heaven. (Revelation 3:12)I agree. There is no third Person of the Godhead of Two.
God the Father within Jesus, being One, is their reality and function of being Holy Spirit together.
Well, since the KJV is a translation of the original Koine Greek, what does it say by comparison?KJV John 1[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
You might like this Jacob wrestling with the angel - Wikipedia
Jacob wrestling with the angel is described in Genesis (32:22–32; also referenced in Hosea 12:3–5)
If God isn't your Savior you don't have a Savior.I understand and that's your opinion. However Jesus himself spoke of his prehuman heavenly life. (John 3:13; 6:38, 62; 8:23, 42, 58) John chapter 1:1&2 says: “In the beginning the Word(Logos) was, and the Word was with God. This one was in the beginning with God.” Since YHWH God is eternal and had no beginning (Psalm 90:2; Revelation 15:3), the Word's being with God from “the beginning” here refers to the beginning of YHWH God creative works. This is confirmed by other texts identifying Jesus as “the firstborn of all creation,” “the beginning of the creation by God.” (Colossians 1:15; Revelations 1:1; 3:14) So the Scriptures identify the Word (Jesus in his prehuman existence) as God’s first creation, his firstborn Son. The point is YHWH God has no beginning, the scriptures show that Jesus who is YHWH God only begotten Son, had a beginning. Colossians 1:15; Revelations 1:1; 3:14
Why do JW's think they are Bible language experts? Oh that's right, Kingdom Hall told them they are.There is no doubt that the Father, the son and the holy spirit are all involved in our spiritual journey to salvation, but nowhere are the three said to be "one God". The apostles confirmed that their "one God" was Yahweh..."the Father". (1 Corinthians 8:5-6) Yahweh is the Father of Jesus as well as us, and hence the Lord's Prayer was addressed to "OUR Father". Yahweh is still his God, even in heaven. (Revelation 3:12)
Jesus himself called his Father "the only true God" (John 17:3) without including himself....and said he was "sent" by his Father.
Well, since the KJV is a translation of the original Koine Greek, what does it say by comparison?
Is that an accurate translation of John 1:1?
Here it is from the Mounce Interlinear....
You can see here a word for word translation into English.....
"1 In en the beginning archē was eimi the ho Word logos, and kai the ho Word logos was eimi with pros · ho God theos, and kai the ho Word logos was eimi God theos. . . . .
Do you notice the word "ho" in that verse four times?.......it means "the" as we can all see.....but when it comes to the one nameless God of the Jews, the Greeks identified him with the definite article "ho", calling him "THE God" to distinguish him from all other gods. (The Greeks were polytheists and all their gods had names. The one God of the Jews, at that time, did not.)
Tell me where you see the "ho" in connection with "theos" (god) in that verse. And then tell me why it was not rendered in any English translation used by trinitarians....? To do so would have changed the entire meaning of the verse. The apostles did not believe that Jesus was God. (1 Corinthians 8:5-6) Jesus himself said that he was "the beginning of God's creation" (Revelation 3:14)
There is only one reference to "THE God" (ho theos) in verse 1, but the second reference has no definite article, and is rendered "a god" in other Bible verses. There is no reason for the discrepancy except to mask the true identity of the Word.
So now verse 14 tells us something other than what trinitarians have come to believe....
"14 And kai the ho Word logos became ginomai flesh sarx and kai dwelt skēnoō among en us hēmeis, and kai we gazed theaomai on · ho his autos glory doxa, glory doxa as hōs of the only monogenēs Son from para the Father patēr, full plērēs of grace charis and kai truth alētheia."
It was the Word "ho logos" (God's spokesman) who became flesh, not "ho theos".
I don't believe that these verses are saying what trinitarians want to believe. And God's word does not contradict itself....as far as I can see, the trinity contradicts God's word.
If God isn't your Savior you don't have a Savior.
Hosea 13
4 You shall know no God but Me; For there is no Savior besides Me.