22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[WPM]

...something else or UNRELATED.

Your DMV test NEVER calls signs, metaphors.

There is a difference.

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Not...

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and METAPHORIZED it by his angel unto his servant John:

Yes, it was symbolized to John. It is sign language. The Premil literalist mindset totally negates the import of Revelation.

 

[David Boyer]

Yes, it was symbolized to John. It is sign language. The Premil literalist mindset totally negates the import of Revelation.

It was signed like an autograph.
Authorized.

 

[WPM]

Are we warring over doctrinal differences or are all Christians in agreement?

You see what preterism rubbish sounds like?

I am not a Preterist. I am a Bible believing Christian.

 

[WPM]

No metaphors.

Only signs of description of something.

You should give up driving if you think signs of description are the equivalent to metaphors.

You teach satan is NOT roaming to and fro, seeking whom he may devour?

Do you live in a newsless monastery?

Keep your Premil taunts and chides to yourself. It does not advance your cause.

You do not seem to understand the figurative usage of the word "bind" (deo) in Scripture. When used in a spiritual context speaking about devils it is never speaking about physical restraint. After all, they are not physical beings. It is talking about a spiritual restraint. When Jesus bound (deo) devils in Scripture did that mean they were unable to move, speak or do injury to anyone or anything else? Of course not!

Revelation 20 describes the defeat and binding (or curtailment) of Satan for the expressed purpose of the Gospel invading the nations and removing the deception that blinded the Gentiles before Christ's first resurrection. When Satan was bound through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ then the kingdom of darkness was bound (including the beast and every demon). 2 Peter 2:4, Jude v 6, Revelation 9 and Revelation 20 all prove the whole demonic realm is currently restrained from stopping the free-flow of the Gospel. The bruising of the head of the beast (Revelation 13:3, 13:12 and 13:14) correlates with the bruising of the head of Satan 2,000 years ago through the earthly ministry of Christ (Genesis 3:15). They correspond with the spiritual binding imprisoning of Satan during the millennial period. These are figurative metaphors describing the impairment of the kingdom of darkness 2000 years ago.

Matthew 12:22-29, Mark 3:11, 23-27, Luke 10:18-19, Luke 11:20-22, John 12:31-33 Colossians 2:13-15, Hebrews 2:14-15, I John 3:8, Revelation 9:1-11 and Revelation 20:2 prove Satan was bound, defeated, incapacitated, divested of power, disarmed, brought to naught, undone, stripped and spiritually imprisoned through Christ's sinless life, atoning death and triumphant resurrection. Colossians 2:15 tells us: “having spoiled (or divested or disarmed) principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.” Satan has not been rendered immobile or inoperative but is limited in his power, kingship and influence by being defeated on the cross. He is like a dog on a chain. He is shackled.

 

[Timtofly]

You are totally missing the thrust. There it is absolutely nothing here to do with a future age, but time in the here-and-now. This text simply indicates the briefness of time with God. 2 Peter 3:8 does not in any way indicate a future earthly millennium kingdom anywhere in this reading. In fact, Peter is simply reminding the end-time scoffers that time is absolutely nothing to the king of glory; He ultimately sits outside of time in the realm of eternity. Time is but a blink to His infinite mind and to the eternal state. God is “from everlasting” (Habakkuk 1:12, Psalm 93:2). This isn't rocket science. It is simple, accurate and contextual.

You are totally missing the point that humans have been in sin because of Adam's disobedience a little less than 6,000 years.

Yes, that has been about 6 days "worth of time" to God. 6 days to us is a blip of time. That is not even one week.

 

[Timtofly]

The length of the Tribulation is given repeatedly. It is in that time that the covenant exists.
Completely false. No grace or salvation?? What a horrible thing to make up whole of cloth and preach as if it had the slightest semblance to truth.



So you think basically that as far as a number of years in the final week, that the cross of Christ was vain.

That is a dark nightmare fantasy that has no basis in reality. Lots of people get saved all through that last seven years. They have a name. They are called saints.

You do realize that no one ir removed from the book of life once saved? The ones removed are the ones who would not receive His gift.
Sounds like a marvel comic

Quite a works trip there. Basically, to get to heaven you simply need to have your head removed! What nonsense.
More made up false doctrine.

You have not a single verse saying there is a 7 year covenant. That is something a human made up.

The AoD is only 42 months, not 7 years.

God removes the Atonement during those 42 months, not 7 years.

You think it wrong to remove Salvation for 42 months? How do you think Israel felt to be cut off from God for thousands of years? Do you think their religion has been a comforting replacement for God's Atonement?

When Satan is given 100% control for 42 months, you think God wants to be part of that?

Perhaps you should get a firmer grasp on what this 42 months of unspeakable abomination and desolation is all about. There is no 7 year period remaining. Many think they can survive Satan's 42 months of sheol on earth.

The people who "get saved" are people without a head. They are dead saints who are resurrected in Revelation 20:4. If you have the mark and your head, you cannot be resurrected in Revelation 20:4. You would have to wait for the 1,000 years to be over, and stand as dead at the GWT.

"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus"

Seems pretty specific who were seen here.

Would you say some people who had the mark, did not actually have the mark, but were faking? Were they also faking their head was cut off, even while walking around with a head on?

 

[Truth7t7]

I am not a Preterist. I am a Bible believing Christian.

I Disagree, you're very much "Preterist" in your eschatology, as it has 66-70AD fulfillment at every corner

Yes you believe in a future second coming, however you believe Daniels AOD and the Great Tribulatiin are fulfilled

You are in the "Partial Preterist" camp in your eschatology

 

[covenantee]

I Disagree, you're very much "Preterist" in your eschatology, as it has 66-70AD fulfillment at every corner

Yes you believe in a future second coming, however you believe Daniels AOD and the Great Tribulatiin are fulfilled

You are in the "Partial Preterist" camp in your eschatology

What fulfillment does futurism have?

 

[Truth7t7]

The Spirit world has no signs?

What does the feather represent?

What does the wing represent?

What does the yield sign represent when driving?

Metaphors are not signs, so you better quit driving while you are ahead.

Get real, the word Metaphor is the English word to express a condition

God having feathers and wings is a Metaphor not a Sign, get real!

 

[Truther]

You are using a different meaning of the word sign.
Rev 1:1 use of signified would be like a signed contract. Put your SIGNature on the page.

Please stop being silly and recognise that a "sign" and a "metaphor" are essentially the same thing. One thing saying it is another... ie a lie.

No, this is a big deal because sign and metaphor are very different.

The book of Rev is the litmus test.

It is SIGNified or sign...ified.(full of signs).

The lamb is Jesus, the dragon is satan, etc.

The PRETERIST wants it to all be metaphorized so they can redefine the entire book with their handy dandy concordances.

For instance, instead of a literal tree of life found in heaven for the healing of the nations, the PRETERIST says WE ARE the tree.

Nuts.

 

[Truther]

Yes, it was symbolized to John. It is sign language. The Premil literalist mindset totally negates the import of Revelation.

The lamb is Jesus, the dragon is satan etc.

The book is easy peasy to read the sign language.

 

[Truther]

I am not a Preterist. I am a Bible believing Christian.

Do you believe the book of Rev is 99% literal with a few signs to help describe things in better detail?

 

[Truth7t7]

What fulfillment does futurism have?

There will be a future human man the beast

Future two witnesses that have literal bodies that die, bringing literal plagues on a literal world Rev chap 11

A future AOD

A future great tribulation

A future second coming

A future resurrection

A future final judgment

A future lake of fire

A future New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Truther]

Keep your Premil taunts and chides to yourself. It does not advance your cause.

You do not seem to understand the figurative usage of the word "bind" (deo) in Scripture. When used in a spiritual context speaking about devils it is never speaking about physical restraint. After all, they are not physical beings. It is talking about a spiritual restraint. When Jesus bound (deo) devils in Scripture did that mean they were unable to move, speak or do injury to anyone or anything else? Of course not!

Revelation 20 describes the defeat and binding (or curtailment) of Satan for the expressed purpose of the Gospel invading the nations and removing the deception that blinded the Gentiles before Christ's first resurrection. When Satan was bound through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ then the kingdom of darkness was bound (including the beast and every demon). 2 Peter 2:4, Jude v 6, Revelation 9 and Revelation 20 all prove the whole demonic realm is currently restrained from stopping the free-flow of the Gospel. The bruising of the head of the beast (Revelation 13:3, 13:12 and 13:14) correlates with the bruising of the head of Satan 2,000 years ago through the earthly ministry of Christ (Genesis 3:15). They correspond with the spiritual binding imprisoning of Satan during the millennial period. These are figurative metaphors describing the impairment of the kingdom of darkness 2000 years ago.

Matthew 12:22-29, Mark 3:11, 23-27, Luke 10:18-19, Luke 11:20-22, John 12:31-33 Colossians 2:13-15, Hebrews 2:14-15, I John 3:8, Revelation 9:1-11 and Revelation 20:2 prove Satan was bound, defeated, incapacitated, divested of power, disarmed, brought to naught, undone, stripped and spiritually imprisoned through Christ's sinless life, atoning death and triumphant resurrection. Colossians 2:15 tells us: “having spoiled (or divested or disarmed) principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.” Satan has not been rendered immobile or inoperative but is limited in his power, kingship and influence by being defeated on the cross. He is like a dog on a chain. He is shackled.

Satan rules sinners.

Most of the inhabitants are sinners.

He is the god of this world, roaming....

Only the Acts 2:38 saints are free from his captivity.

Not sinners or those that reject Acts 2:38.

 

[covenantee]

There will be a future human man the beast

Future two witnesses that have literal bodies that die, bringing literal plagues on a literal world Rev chap 11

A future AOD

A future great tribulation

A future second coming

A future resurrection

A future final judgment

A future lake of fire

A future New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem

Jesus Is The Lord

So, no fulfillment at all.

 

[Truther]

Get real, the word Metaphor is the English word to express a condition

God having feathers and wings is a Metaphor not a Sign, get real!

Metaphor is not sign.

Give up your drivers license if you think they are the same thing.

 

[covenantee]

There will be a future human man the beast

Future two witnesses that have literal bodies that die, bringing literal plagues on a literal world Rev chap 11

A future AOD

A future great tribulation

A future second coming

A future resurrection

A future final judgment

A future lake of fire

A future New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem

Jesus Is The Lord

Futurism is actually frequently preterism.

According to futurism's definition of preterism, anything that was fulfilled before 70 AD is preterism.

Futurism believes that Jesus' first coming was fulfilled before 70 AD.

So futurism is actually preterism regarding the fulfillment of Jesus' first coming.

 

[Truther]

Futurism is actually frequently preterism.

According to futurism's definition of preterism, anything that was fulfilled before 70 AD is preterism.

Futurism believes that Jesus' first coming was fulfilled before 70 AD.

So futurism is actually preterism regarding the fulfillment of Jesus' first coming.

Futurism is polar opposite of preterism.

One says most of prophecy has been fulfilled and the other says most has not yet been fulfilled.

 

[WPM]

The lamb is Jesus, the dragon is satan etc.

The book is easy peasy to read the sign language.

Please remember, it is the dragon that is placed in a prison under chains. It is obviously a metaphoric description. The dragon, prison and chains represent real spiritual reality. Satan is spiritually restrained during this intra-Advent period until he is released at the end to have a short season of persecution. Satan cannot stop the Gospel going to the nations as he once did. Since the cross, the Gospel has spread throughout the heathen nations of this world, something that never happened previous. However, this doesn't stop individuals being personally deceived.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I agree, however that's not what you claimed in the post, sea represented the Mediterranean "Wrong"

Randy I give you the big A+ for submission to presented truth

"SEA" Represents multitudes of people, as scripture cleary teaches

To ancient Israel, the "seas" most certainly would point them to the Mediterranean, since that is the gateway to the ocean and to distant lands. I've been consistent with this for years. The "seas" represent Western lands, beginning with the Mediterranean region. I see no inconsistency with what I've said previously.