If Jesus was the One who took away sins from the world?

[Waiting on him]

People make the mistake when they open and read the Bible and believe it is speaking directly to them, and they tend to get things mixed up in their readings sometimes. It's important to remember what you are reading, and who is addressed, what is being talked about, along with backing up things in the bible from another verse most of the time a verse has a related verse to it when it comes to reference bibles.

One great helpful bible is a Thompson Chain Reference Bible. There are other study bibles, but the biggest thing is getting an understanding of the history of the Gospels, who wrote them, where they were sent to if possible.

It is important at least to me to get close as truth as you possibly can, checking word definitions, and testing the word of God against itself by the Holy Spirit, which may be something people do or do not do in their own life only God knows. It is important in my opinion to always read and consider everything when they were written which I believe personally all of everything was written before the destruction of Jerusalem.

Jesus makes it fairly clear here what the world is?


John 18:20 KJV
[20] Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing.

 

[MatthewG]

 

[Waiting on him]

 

[MatthewG]

Jesus makes it fairly clear here what the world is?


John 18:20 KJV
[20] Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing.

Can you explain further?

The word usage for world here is Thayer's Greek: 2889. κόσμος (kosmos) -- order, the world

There seems to always be an order of how things were to go in the case of Jesus and the Jewish people, even the Roman Empire.

 

[MatthewG]

This topic is mainly about has Jesus taken away the sins of the world.

A great response to this is no. It always means something else, than what it saying.

Jesus took the sins away before you were born or … Jesus has never taken away the penalty towards sins and everyone needs to live by the law perfectly and when they mess up they need to go and sacrifice animals to the Lord God in the temple of Jerusalem (once a year)or else their sins will never be forgiven, or perhaps an altar you made for the Lord.

All those things were destroyed though.

No one takes an animal and puts in on the altar for God to be appeased… Jesus was enough one time for all people. Yet many say you must accept it to receive it, sure there is benefits to following Jesus but he has made sot he unbeliever can at any time have access to God if they so choose through the Lord Yeshua…

Totally free will choice.

People have a hard time accepting that Jesus did in fact pay for all the worlds sins not only for those believe but those who are unbelieving…

Talk about a merciful God!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Jesus makes it fairly clear here what the world is?


John 18:20 KJV
[20] Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing.

John 18:20 Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing.

concerning the above, you know I’m still not fully convinced.

reasons and questions:
1) It is like where Jesus said to the Greek woman who called herself a dog, and his response to her how it isn’t right to give the children’s bread to dogs…how do we know for sure that ‘I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, where the Jew resort..is not like that “you don’t give the children’s bread to dogs. First the children are fed.” ? To me it is what they said, but what did he say? Like circumcising…what did He say?
Mark 16:He said to them, Go into all the world (to the Jews only?)and preach and publish openly the good news (the Gospel) to every creature [of the whole human race].
There is a verse where it says they will exclude you…I take that to mean: why will they exclude you? Which to me the answer in itself speaks of reproving their deeds are evil? Biggest question then is why a theology that excludes as what God meant instead of what men meant?

2) Another question: how do we know when he told them they were the world…or a part of it…that He didn’t mean “the world” that hates the light refusing to come to the light least their deeds be made know that they are wrought in God? If it is correct, the Jews were “the world” spoken openly to, then all of first John is not spoken to any of us today.
John 7:4-8 No one does anything in secret when he wants to be known publicly. If You [must] do these things, show Yourself openly to the world and make Yourself known!" [5] For not even His brothers believed in Him. [6] So Jesus said to them, "My time has not yet come; but any time is right for you. [7] The world cannot hate you [since you are part of it], but it does hate Me because I denounce it and testify that its deeds are evil. [8] Go up to the feast yourselves. I am not going up to this feast because My time has not yet fully come."

the above “the world can not hate you [since you are a part of it]”
To me if that world he spoke openly to was the Jews only because of “I spoke openly in their synagogue and temples” and “nothing I withheld” (unlike them with withheld the gospel and light from being seen?),
IF the Jews only were “the world” which Jesus Christ spoke to his disciples of being a part of that “world”… “Jews” or “sin”?
then that would change who is a part of “for God so loved the world” (not as being to any of us) and also the Holy Spirit coming to reprove sin because
they hate me because I reprove sin
I denounce sin
I testify their deeds are evil
If “the world” He spoke openly to was only the Jews, who resorted always to the teaching in the synagogue and temples…then why
Did you receive the [Holy] Spirit as the result of
obeying the Law and doing its works,
or was it by hearing [the message of the Gospel] and believing [it]?
Galatians 3:1-2

If “the world” spoken of by His speaking openly in the tabernacle and temples where they resorted to was only the Jews..
Then “the world” including all has nothing to worry about. For God doesn’t reprove the sins of “the world” but only the Jews sins, He doesn’t denounce their sins “the world”, but only the Jews sins. He doesn’t testify their sins are evil “the world”, but only the Jews sins?

3) all that about OT saints looking forward to the cross. And the NT saints looking back on the cross. If the “world” was only that He spoke openly to the Jews then why NT looks back?

maybe a bunch of confusing hogwash from me but can anyone answer or help with one of those? Personally I think what is the heartbeat of all the word is
Mark 11:21-22 - ” ²² Jesus replied, “Have faith in God.”
To me His speaking openly to the world
Which was spoken openly towards “Have faith in God”
The Jews who say “the Children are fed first. It isn’t right to throw the children’s bread to dogs. let the children eat first.”
Where the Jews resorting to the tabernacle and temples agree, yea! “let the children eat first. ”
But to me everything I read about God and who He is says a huge “No” you don’t take your meal first that another go hungry…?

so which was spoken openly to concerning have faith in God. The above…or the dog that crawled in resorting to eating the crumbs that fall from the masters table? Who He told “by Faith” to the Greek woman “your daughter is healed”?

 

[MatthewG]

You make a good point from the distinction of God giving the Law and the Gentiles never having Law. The Jews punishment would come crashing down at the time of the end. The end of what? The material religion of the nation God chose to work with to bring forth his Son. Thank you for sharing your commenting Victory.

 

[dev553344]

Basically, you just agreed with what "PTA" wrote in the previous post.
Yes, Jesus is the Lamb of God, that taketh away the sin of the world, who "tasted death for every single person".
Therefore, if we don't accept/receive His free judgment over death, by His Gift of Grace through Jesus, and allow Him to apply it to our life, while we still have breath, we will be lost from God forever. We shall remain eternally dead, "as having never lived". John 3:18.

Exactly what I was trying to explain. The sins are not forgiven if we don't apply what is taught in the bible so that God might forgive them.

 

[MatthewG]

The simple question is.

Did Jesus Christ take away the sins of the world, so that God through Christ was able to reconcile the world unto himself?

It’s a simple yes or no.

Many people will yes, but - if you don’t accept you will be thrown into the lake of fire and tortured for all of forever and ever…

Jesus Christ victory - over Sin, Satan, death, hell/Sheol/hades, even the wrath of God which was poured out on the nation of Israel.

Jesus has had the victory! He did take away the sins of the world. He did this on behalf of all of everyone in the universe because God so loved the world he sent the Word made Flesh his only begotten Son.

Though people don’t believe and do say I’m wrong that people have been saved from those things, if a person desires to have a relationship with God they decide for themselves to seek Him out in faith or not.

If people don’t want anything to do with God, they have been forgiven, and saved from everything I just mentioned but they are not saved to the kingdom of God, they will be on the outside of the gates…

People refuse all those things as well, so… I’ll just keep hammering away to say I believe Jesus was the Lamb who took away all the sins of the World.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You make a good point from the distinction of God giving the Law and the Gentiles never having Law.

But He told the Greek woman it wasn’t meet to give the children’s bread to dogs. You spoke about law…we still quote “don’t give your bread to dogs. Don’t cast your pearls before swine.” Why do we still quote it today when dealing with others we want to sneer at as being told that you (Christians)don’t cast what is “holy” the gospel before dogs or swine? Just a question because I hear it quoted often in that manner…as useful.

The material religion of the nation God chose to work with to bring forth his Son.

see…I don’t don’t think “the material religion of the nation God chose to work with to bring forth his Son” because of the question “Did you receive the [Holy] Spirit as the result of
obeying the Law and doing its works,
or was it by hearing [the message of the Gospel] and believing [it]?

when considering this concerning, how did I hear the message of the gospel? I heard the gospel by the Greek woman coming to eat crumbles that fall from the masters table...not in “Let the children eat first.” I heard it because I thought “oh wow, I’m a dog”

I heard the message of the gospel in the woman with an issue of blood where no physician could cure, coming in to touch the hem of His garment. I heard the gospel in her, not their getting irritated or alarmed that someone touched him, but by her daring to touch Him anyways regardless of the outcome. Again “oh wow, I have an issue of blood.” Maybe I misunderstood you, thinking by your topic you meant the “world” was the Jews only? I do have a problem with putting myself in the passages, for example the woman who touches the hem of His garment…I think we are touching the hem of His garment now, the Word of God. Which to me only gives validity to the warning of “not handling the word of God deceitfully but with sincerity” which I do think the woman with an issue of blood did. See, you said that nation He chose to bring forth His Son…but He even said (unless I’ve misunderstood) “I will bring forth Fruit unto God” by another nation…the Greek dog and the woman with an issue of blood? As far as too often putting ourselves in the word when it isn’t to us. Consider “we love Him, because He first love us.” We could say no that was spoken to them, or who said it it was to them, or about them. But still rings true “we Love Him, because He first Loved us.” —that one on my mind because of “let the children be fed first.” But He —not greedy to be fed As I’ve always have been taught God is a tyrant…He loved us first… “us”? Who is “us”?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

when considering this concerning, how did I hear the message of the gospel?

another “how did you hear the message of the gospel”? The Samaritan woman by the well…not by she had not right to come draw water but instead “- Jesus left Judea and started for Galilee again. ⁴ This time he had to go through Samaria”
And “if you had asked of Me I would have given you Living Water.” —who did or had the Samaritan woman asked that denied her Living water, what I hear is it wasn’t Christ. Or He would have given it. “The message of the gospel.”

 

[MatthewG]

You simply remind me of Yeshua when he said these things in the account of John’s Gospel.


“Then cometh he to a city of Samaria, which is called Sychar, near to the parcel of ground that Jacob gave to his son Joseph. Now Jacob's well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on the well: and it was about the sixth hour.

There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink. (For his disciples were gone away unto the city to buy meat.)

Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.

Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water?

Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle?

Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: but whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

The woman saith unto him, Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come hither to draw. Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither.

The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband: for thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly.

The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.”
‭‭John‬ ‭4‬:‭5‬-‭26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Even this lady had heard the promises of the Old Testament that a Messiah would be coming, it is interesting what Jesus says here about God, how true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth; for the Father seeks such to worship him. How? In spirit and in truth.

This why it is so important to learn and grow in one’s Bible knowledge.

When it comes to the woman of the blood problem it is this scenario. She heard about Jesus, she got up and sought out Him, she believed he could heal her, she by faith touched his hem and was healed inside you could say the healing of the soul (mind/will/emotion).

It’s all for us today to. It’s a choice, this woman never had to do anything but she chose to get up that morning hearing the crowds and hearing about The stories of Him, she sought him out and was able to be made whole again.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink. (For his disciples were gone away unto the city to buy meat.)

(For his disciples were gone away unto the city to buy meat)
What is his disciples doing off over in the city to buy meat? While Christ is sitting by Jacobs Well that is so deep, sitting there Christ is with nothing to draw with…talking to a Samaritan woman…while they are off over in the city to buy meat. Matthew 25:9 However, the prudent ones answered, 'No, there most certainly would not be enough for us and you too; go instead to the merchants and buy some for yourselves.'
Consider the magnitude of what He told the woman “if you would have asked Me, I would have given unto you Living water” contrasted with “No, there most certainly would not be enough for us and you too; go instead to the merchants and buy some for yourselves.” their old way of thinking “how else can you feed a multitude of hungry people”?? except go unto the city to buy some meat. Or her old way of thinking “how will you draw? You brought nothing to draw with?” John 12:32
And I, if and when I am lifted up from the earth [on the cross], will draw all people to Myself [Gentiles, as well as Jews]."

 

[amigo de christo]

This topic is mainly about has Jesus taken away the sins of the world.

A great response to this is no. It always means something else, than what it saying.

Jesus took the sins away before you were born or … Jesus has never taken away the penalty towards sins and everyone needs to live by the law perfectly and when they mess up they need to go and sacrifice animals to the Lord God in the temple of Jerusalem (once a year)or else their sins will never be forgiven, or perhaps an altar you made for the Lord.

All those things were destroyed though.

No one takes an animal and puts in on the altar for God to be appeased… Jesus was enough one time for all people. Yet many say you must accept it to receive it, sure there is benefits to following Jesus but he has made sot he unbeliever can at any time have access to God if they so choose through the Lord Yeshua…

Totally free will choice.

People have a hard time accepting that Jesus did in fact pay for all the worlds sins not only for those believe but those who are unbelieving…

Talk about a merciful God!

Those who dont believe will be damned . JESUS who took away the sins also SAID THIS .
Your mind is mixed up my friend . Would you like to hear the parable of the just judge again .
You keep forgetting . ONE HAS TO BELEIVE in order to RECIEVE that forgivness . PEROID . learn JESUS WELL . THE BIBLICAL ONE .
not the all inclusive many path one created by men .

 

[MatthewG]

Thank you @amigo de christo .

From my perspective from what I am saying is that I do not believe the wrath of God abides on anyone anymore.

Because of the Lord Yeshua, and his victory over all things. I believe that God allows people simply to pick and choose whether or not they wanna have life with God or life without God. From what the Bible states there is a resurrection of condemnation, and resurrection of life. Each a spiritual body resurrection from my understanding; though however because of God having a desire from none to perish. He has made away for each resurrection to exist. Where do they exist? From what John states in Revelation Chapter 21-22, it seems to indicate a beautiful grand city, with 12 gates around it that never close. Believers will be found with-in the grand city known as the Heavenly Jerusalem. There is an outside to that city, and that is where those who had no faith resided.

the Bible is such a useful resource to use and look at and read and really consider many things with-in the confines of the Bible itself as it is massive in scope.

 

[MatthewG]

The simple question is can you ask yourself " Has Jesus Christ really taken away all of the sins of the world by and through his death on the cross and resurrection? "

Some would say yes, some say no. It all depends on how much you take time to study and research those topics and come to a conclusion on a certain matter.

May God be with you.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

As stated Ronald, many people still believe in the coming of Christ. That is all find and cool with me, though I do not believe he is coming back and believe he came back to his promised people in that day in age.

Though when leaving this life, surely everyone will have a coming back experience of some sort being given a spiritual body by God which will be good, and with that resurrection go on into the Kingdom of Heaven to be with God for having faith and choosing to do so while living on earth.

Those who do not want anything to with God will be on the outside of the Kingdom.

Jesus Christ has taken care of the sins of all people, and Jesus Christ has had victory over sin, death, satan and his angels, the false prophet, the beast, and all enemies placed beneath his feet, and did come back but hey maybe I am wrong and people who are still waiting are all right.

If He came back---where is He!! He said the whole world will see Him coming back!

 

[Earburner]

I believe everything happened in the past with the first century first-born believers in Christ Jesus, who suffered death at the hands of others. I do not know everything a 'preterist' believes but I believe that everything has been fulfilled. Except for Revelation 21-22 which are spiritual principles and pictures and types for us to learn about and from.

Matt, please tell us when 2 Thes. 1:7-10 took place, and your account of HOW it actually did:
[7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
[10] When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Thanks, Earburner

 

[MatthewG]

There is quite a bit to go through, @Earburner.

2 Thessalonians 1
New International Version

1 Paul, Silas and Timothy,

To the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:

2 Grace and peace to you from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Thanksgiving and Prayer
3 We ought always to thank God for you, brothers and sisters, and rightly so, because your faith is growing more and more, and the love all of you have for one another is increasing. 4 Therefore, among God’s churches we boast about your perseverance and faith in all the persecutions and trials you are enduring.

5 All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering. 6 God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you 7 and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might 10 on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.

11 With this in mind, we constantly pray for you, that our God may make you worthy of his calling, and that by his power he may bring to fruition your every desire for goodness and your every deed prompted by faith. 12 We pray this so that the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you, and you in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.


The Man of Lawlessness
2 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

5 Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6 And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends thema powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Stand Firm
13 But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers and sisters loved by the Lord, because God chose you as firstfruits to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth. 14 He called youto this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

15 So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachingswe passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

16 May our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who loved us and by his grace gave us eternal encouragement and good hope, 17 encourageyour hearts and strengthen you in every good deed and word.



2 Thessalonians 3
New International Version

Request for Prayer
3 As for other matters, brothers and sisters, pray for us that the message of the Lord may spread rapidly and be honored, just as it was with you. 2 And pray that we may be delivered from wicked and evil people, for not everyone has faith. 3 But the Lord is faithful, and he will strengthen you and protect you from the evil one. 4 We have confidence in the Lord that you are doing and will continue to do the things we command. 5 May the Lord direct your hearts into God’s love and Christ’s perseverance.

Warning Against Idleness
6 In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers and sisters, to keep away from every believer who is idle and disruptive and does not live according to the teaching you received from us. 7 For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example. We were not idle when we were with you, 8 nor did we eat anyone’s food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. 9 We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to offer ourselves as a model for you to imitate. 10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.”

11 We hear that some among you are idle and disruptive. They are not busy; they are busybodies. 12 Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the food they eat. 13 And as for you, brothers and sisters, never tire of doing what is good.

14 Take special note of anyone who does not obey our instruction in this letter. Do not associate with them, in order that they may feel ashamed.15 Yet do not regard them as an enemy, but warn them as you would a fellow believer.

Final Greetings
16 Now may the Lord of peace himself give you peace at all times and in every way. The Lord be with all of you.

17 I, Paul, write this greeting in my own hand, which is the distinguishing mark in all my letters. This is how I write.

18 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all.

 

[MatthewG]

Sounds like the Thessalonians were suffering and being persecuted, in the first few verses.