The Impassable Great Gulf in Hell: No legs to walk with

[MatthewG]

The great news is the total victory over all sin, death, satan and his angels, and he’ll/sheol.

 

[Phoneman777]

The soul is immortal, not the flesh.

"God ONLY hath immortality" and "they who...SEEK for glory, honor, and immortality" will be granted it.

The first lie in Scripture was "thou shalt not surely die" and by agreeing with the devil, you deny the truth of God Who said, "The Soul that sinneth, IT SHALL DIE".

 

[robert derrick]

The great news is the total victory over all sin, death, satan and his angels, and he’ll/sheol.

Good try. Revising your teaching.

But it's still your own gospel, not God's.

Hell will not be cast into the lake of fire, until the last judgement to come, which is after hell delivers of the souls to be judged.

I wanted to believe your 'heaven or oblivion' gospel as a sinner, but I couldn't accept the notion that once God creates someone, He can then uncreate us.

And of course, now I know by Scripture it's false doctrine for those that do not want there to be a hell. You don't want to say everyone is now going to heaven, and so you just do away with those who don't.

It's also a way of hedging your bets about no more being condemned while sinning against Christ anymore.

I call it the OSAS fairness doctrine: you will allow for others doing as you do, to be condemned while you are not, until they believe like you. But you're not willing to have them go to hell for doing what you do, and you do not, because you don't believe for yourself.

It's the world's theology of believing in something is all that matters, whether true or not, and it doesn't have anything to do with doing good or evil.

It's the ungrown faith of them that were told as a child, that so long as they believe it, that's all that matters.

All the 'grown up' teaching around it, is just pseudo-knowledge imagined from Scripture to justify oneself in what they want to believe for themselves.

 

[robert derrick]

"God ONLY hath immortality" and "they who...SEEK for glory, honor, and immortality" will be granted it.

The first lie in Scripture was "thou shalt not surely die" and by agreeing with the devil, you deny the truth of God Who said, "The Soul that sinneth, IT SHALL DIE".

I've already confirmed from another, that you are JW types, who reject Jesus Christ as Lord and God.

I began to suspect as much, when I started seeing how you freely twist Scripture, and love to quote nonbelieving monotheistic Jews, about what they think about Scripture. As though that matters at all.

You clenched it, when you said Jesus Christ ceased to exist like other men, while His body was in the tomb for three days.

I'm not sure if all jehovah worshipped teach mortal souls, but it certainly is a cornerstone teaching of your that must reject Jesus as Lord and God.

Since the immortal God cannot ever cease to exist, then He can never become a man and living soul on earth, if the souls of men are only mortal, and cease to exist while the body is in the grave.

The importance of this is, that it explains why you are willingly blind to the spiritual nature of the soul created by Christ and in His image, which is therefore immortal and eternal.

You don't believe Jesus Christ is God, but a created soul, and the first man to be deified bodily, and so you reject having Him dwell in you at all.

Having not the Spirit by choice, you are willfully ignorant of knowing the difference between being spiritual dead and corrupt in trespasses and sins, and being spiritually alive and pure by Jesus Christ dwelling within the soul.

It is foolishness to you to even think of God dwelling within you, because you do not know Him nor have His Spirit. Since the first time you sinned on earth, like all men, and becoming dead to God like Adam, all things remain the same for you.

You simply don't know what it is to be born again of God, as a newborn soul at the first, because you refuse to believe it, and all this mortal soul stuff is just a theological cover, for the fact that you don't want God Himself dwelling within you, and therefore convicting you of your sinning from within.

You don't mind men speaking of judgment, whom you can argue with, but you don't want the righteous eternal Judge Himself doing so from within your own conscience.

Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

You want to be the only person knowing the very thoughts and intents of your own heart at any time, even if it means remaining dead and blind within your own soul.

And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

You're a natural man like all natural men on earth, having not the Spirit, because you do not believe in having an immortal soul apart from the body in the first place. You reject being a soul created in the beginning to be an eternal habitation of God.

With natural theology, you only give lip service to the soul, by making it mortal only, so that the soul becomes nothing other than mortal flesh and blood itself, which of course is the very definition of naturalism.

 

[MatthewG]

Thank you Robert!

My belief holds Jesus Christ up as the victor over all things.

Not many people really have that type of belief.

That doesn't mean that there are not things to learn from the Bible and learn by and through the Spirit.

 

[Phoneman777]

I've already confirmed from another, that you are JW types, who reject Jesus Christ as Lord and God.

You've confirmed nothing, friend. I assure you my faith is in Christ alone for salvation, not works, and certainly not false pagan ideas like yours which deny the truth of Scripture that God "only hath immortality".

It appears you are unable to understand what's plainly said in Genesis 2:7 KJV: that the Soul comes into existence ONLY as a consequence of the union of the Body and the Breath of Life, and ceases to exist when the Body returns to the ground and the spirit returns to God.

 

[Berserk]

Robert Derrick: "According to Scripture that last part may be true, because Jesus did not say anything about Abraham, Lazarus, and the tormented rich man in hell having legs, but only eyes, ears, and tongues to see, hear, and speak with: But no legs to move with.
And so, that would be why they could speak and hear, but could not walk and move from place to place."

Duh, so if your mother talked to you on he phone about what she said and heard, but nothing about where she walked, you would assume that ypur mother had lost her legs!?

Robert Derrick: The gulf between the two is fixed, because the souls are fixed in place, and cannot...move from one place to the other...because they are able to talk with one another, as nearby neighbors."
But the gates of the heavenly Jerusalem are eternally open to evil souls "outside" in "the lake of fire" (Rev. 21:25; cp. 22:15: 21:8). This implies the possibility of movement by God's grace from the lake of fire through the gates into heaven. This movement explains John's vision of every human praising God and Jesus in heaven (5:13).


Robert Derrick: "This is why they are called the spirits in prison: each of them is imprisoned in a strong fixed place without possibility of moving around."

Except that Jesus preached the Gospel to "the spirits in prison" with the implication that they could respond and be retrieved from Hades (1 Peter 3:19). Their redemptive response is implied in 4:6.

 

[quietthinker]

The natural minded men that read Scripture, and try to change it, can show certain mysteries of Scripture by their errors.

They symbolize hell and souls in hell as parables only, because for them only natural bodies have eyes, ears, and tongues. And in the process they say souls don't have legs either apart from the mortal body.

According to Scripture that last part may be true, because Jesus did not say anything about Abraham, Lazarus, and the tormented rich man in hell having legs, but only eyes, ears, and tongues to see, hear, and speak with: But no legs to move with.

And so, that would be why they could speak and hear, but could not walk and move from place to place.

The great gulf is the fixed place between the righteous in Abraham's bosom in hell, and the unrighteous in flames of hell, but as with many times, the natural mind assumes certain things, such as great being that of distance.

Being great in Scripture can be that of great good or evil, and also that of distance or strength.

The gulf between the two is fixed, because the souls are fixed in place, and cannot walk and move from one place to the other, nor even one spot to another, and it has nothing to do with distance between each soul, because they are able to talk with one another, as nearby neighbors.

This is why they are called the spirits in prison: each of them is imprisoned in a strong fixed place without possibility of moving around.

And so that great gulf is not a matter of distance, but of immovability, so that the soul in flames could talk with the soul not in flames, but neither of them could move to join or help the other.

This also shows the love of Abraham for all his children, whether good or evil, so that if he could have done as asked, then he would have: This is the same of course for the Lord God of Abraham.

This also shows that right next to the tormented rich man in hell, was water that those in Abraham's bosom could drink.

That is torment indeed.

Wake up Robert!

The story Jesus told of Lazarus and the rich man is for the purpose of making a point which he makes at the end of the story. It is not designed to create a theology of any sorts.

You no doubt know the story of 'The boy who cried Wolf'? Its purpose is not the details of the story. Its purpose is to highlight the importance of not putting out false information.

 

[robert derrick]

Bible confirms paganism?

The Bible confirms when something within the myths of men are true, such as the flood of Gilgamesh. The Scripture then goes on to correct all the false parts.

The devil inspires myths out of truth, in order to muddy the waters of Scripture. This is why naturally minded unbelievers treat the Bible as just another book of myths, parables, and symbols, instead of the true account of history.

Saying Jesus' account of hell is parable only, while trying to extract teaching from it, is the same as those who make crossing of the Red Sea a parable only as well.

Faith in God and Scripture knows all accounts are true, unless identified as parable, allegory, or mystery, and they are written also for lessons to be learned:

Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

Jesus drew upon the ignorance of Helenistic pagan philosophy which swirled around and corrupted even the Jews to illustrate the truth which is ascertained by properly interpreting His parable.

Here is now how you make Jesus as nothing but a mythologer Himself.

The Hellenistic Jews did accept mythology as fables for themselves. Jesus wasn't joining in with them, but was correcting their errors, by stating hell as it is, and not as Greek writers and Hellenistic Jews took it to be.

Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

The natural minded unbelieving Jews and Christians alike prefer fables to facts, when the Scriptural accounts aren't to their liking.

Then why was the Rich Man tormented in flames if that punishment isn't until later?

That punishment was then as Jesus says, and the torment is forever as Scripture says.

This has to be the most asinine thing I've ever read. God is burning the wicked now, but will take them out of the fire, put them on trial, find them guilty, then plunge them back into the fire. Got it.

So, you do know what Scripture says, but you just reject it, because you don't like it.

And you despise and fear it so much, we see you joining in with the other unbelievers, that accuse the God of the Bible of being evil and doing evil things to people.

Man wasn't "given" a soul .

Here we see how your natural mind always looks to the natural body first and foremost, so that when Scripture speaks of spiritual things of the soul, then it is foolishness to you and makes no 'sense' physically.

Man is not his body, and so no body is given a soul. Man is a soul who is given a body temporarily in this life, to prove ourselves with God.

Man is only made a little lower than the angels in this life, because angels are spiritual beings given spiritual bodies at the first, while man is a spiritual soul wrapped in mortal flesh only.

This is why angels that rebel against Christ are cast down without hope of rising again, while man is given grace to rise again before the grave. IF we end in righteousness of Christ, then our soul receives the resurrection spiritual body like that of Christ, and so the Scripture is fulfilled that lowly man on earth, is raised higher than the angels in heaven:

Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands.

In the resurrection in Jesus' likeness, men are crowned with glory and honour, but for now men are given power over the earth.

Natural men only see their lives and power in flesh and blood, and blind themselves to the true power, immortality, and riches of the spiritual soul.

For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

Natural theology only gives lip service to the soul, while seeing only a mortal soul in mortal flesh.

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

If the soul were the flesh, then Jesus would be saying the soul is nothing, even as the flesh is nothing. Therefore, natural thinkers make the soul nothing more than flesh and blood with no profit to it.

The immortal soul is the inner man that is created with ears to hear the eternal things of the Spirit, but the natural theologist with a mortal soul only, shuts his ears to the spiritual things of eternal life.

but it's up to you to abandon the satanic lie "thou shalt not SURELY die, Eve, you'll die alright, but not SURELY - you're actually going to keep right on living on another plane of existence".

And once again, you first twist Scripture to fit your natural theology, and so you naturally twist others teaching Scripture just as written:

All men surely die, if and exactly when we sin against Christ, with spiritual death and separation from Christ.

Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

Death of the immortal soul by sinning is more sure than the flesh, because it can become become eternal without repentance unto death of the mortal body.

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

[robert derrick]

Wake up Robert!

The story Jesus told of Lazarus and the rich man is for the purpose of making a point which he makes at the end of the story. It is not designed to create a theology of any sorts.

You no doubt know the story of 'The boy who cried Wolf'? Its purpose is not the details of the story. Its purpose is to highlight the importance of not putting out false information.

So, you are another mortal soul theologist, that rejects Jesus Christ as Lord and God.

All of your rejection of plain Scripture, is to reject hell and make for yourself a naturalized theology of 'heaven or oblivion'.

 

[robert derrick]

Thank you Robert!

My belief holds Jesus Christ up as the victor over all things.

Not many people really have that type of belief.

That doesn't mean that there are not things to learn from the Bible and learn by and through the Spirit.

And thank you for acknowledging you preach your own gospel, where the Bible is only reference tool to guide you in your theology.

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Your gospel is not only cursed, but also childishly superficial. It doesn't take much for any sinner to reject their is a hell, while wishing for a heaven.

 

[robert derrick]

You've confirmed nothing, friend. I assure you my faith is in Christ alone for salvation, not works, and certainly not false pagan ideas like yours which deny the truth of Scripture that God "only hath immortality".

It appears you are unable to understand what's plainly said in Genesis 2:7 KJV: that the Soul comes into existence ONLY as a consequence of the union of the Body and the Breath of Life, and ceases to exist when the Body returns to the ground and the spirit returns to God.

So, an OSAS JW. That's unique. Most JW's at least call for righteous living in holiness attire.

Jesus Christ is Lord and God. He never ceased to exist.

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

 

[Dropship]

The Impassable Great Gulf in Hell: No legs to walk with

Yes, once in hell, NEVER out-
"..a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us" (Luke 16:26)
But some "christian" religions and cults can't handle that brutal truth so they push the wimpy notion that hell is fitted with a swing door to let people in and out..:)

 

[Raccoon1010]

The natural minded men that read Scripture, and try to change it, can show certain mysteries of Scripture by their errors.

They symbolize hell and souls in hell as parables only, because for them only natural bodies have eyes, ears, and tongues. And in the process they say souls don't have legs either apart from the mortal body.

According to Scripture that last part may be true, because Jesus did not say anything about Abraham, Lazarus, and the tormented rich man in hell having legs, but only eyes, ears, and tongues to see, hear, and speak with: But no legs to move with.

And so, that would be why they could speak and hear, but could not walk and move from place to place.

The great gulf is the fixed place between the righteous in Abraham's bosom in hell, and the unrighteous in flames of hell, but as with many times, the natural mind assumes certain things, such as great being that of distance.

Being great in Scripture can be that of great good or evil, and also that of distance or strength.

The gulf between the two is fixed, because the souls are fixed in place, and cannot walk and move from one place to the other, nor even one spot to another, and it has nothing to do with distance between each soul, because they are able to talk with one another, as nearby neighbors.

This is why they are called the spirits in prison: each of them is imprisoned in a strong fixed place without possibility of moving around.

And so that great gulf is not a matter of distance, but of immovability, so that the soul in flames could talk with the soul not in flames, but neither of them could move to join or help the other.

This also shows the love of Abraham for all his children, whether good or evil, so that if he could have done as asked, then he would have: This is the same of course for the Lord God of Abraham.

This also shows that right next to the tormented rich man in hell, was water that those in Abraham's bosom could drink.

That is torment indeed.

Hell is in the heart of the earth with the lava and heat. Jesus descended into the heart of the earth to preach to them (Ephesians 4:9, 1 Peter 3:19). So it appears he also has the keys of hell and death (Revelation 1:18). So he can deliver people from hell.

 

[robert derrick]

Robert Derrick: "According to Scripture that last part may be true, because Jesus did not say anything about Abraham, Lazarus, and the tormented rich man in hell having legs, but only eyes, ears, and tongues to see, hear, and speak with: But no legs to move with.
And so, that would be why they could speak and hear, but could not walk and move from place to place."

Duh, so if your mother talked to you on he phone about what she said and heard, but nothing about where she walked, you would assume that ypur mother had lost her legs!?

Robert Derrick: The gulf between the two is fixed, because the souls are fixed in place, and cannot...move from one place to the other...because they are able to talk with one another, as nearby neighbors."
But the gates of the heavenly Jerusalem are eternally open to evil souls "outside" in "the lake of fire" (Rev. 21:25; cp. 22:15: 21:8). This implies the possibility of movement by God's grace from the lake of fire through the gates into heaven. This movement explains John's vision of every human praising God and Jesus in heaven (5:13).


Robert Derrick: "This is why they are called the spirits in prison: each of them is imprisoned in a strong fixed place without possibility of moving around."

Except that Jesus preached the Gospel to "the spirits in prison" with the implication that they could respond and be retrieved from Hades (1 Peter 3:19). Their redemptive response is implied in 4:6.

The use of legs is mostly for exposing mortal soul theologians, that they cannot conceive of the soul not being the body, and so must have all physical body parts.

It did lead to a good teaching on the great fixed gulf in hell, that the greatness of it was in it's strength, rather than distance.

All the spirits in prison were therefore preached to in hell by Jesus Christ at once: including both those righteous saints in Abraham's bosom, and the wicked in flames.

All the righteous were the captivity led captive with Jesus in His resurrection. All the church will be resurrected together bodily at His second coming.

Now all righteous souls in Christ appear immediately in the presence of the Lord at His altar in heaven, while the wicked wake up in hell with the rest still there. They will be made alive in bodies again at the great white throne judgment, along with the rest of the dead during the millennial reign.

 

[Raccoon1010]

Yes, once in hell, NEVER out-
"..a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us" (Luke 16:26)
But some "christian" religions and cults can't handle that brutal truth so they push the wimpy notion that hell is fitted with a swing door to let people in and out..:)

See post #34

 

[robert derrick]

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

This would be another proving Scripture, that says the body and soul are not always one together: the body can be killed independent of the soul being dead also. The soul can remain alive after the death of the body.

The soul only dies spiritually by sinning against Christ, and the body naturally dies, because it is made mortal from the beginning, like grass of the earth.

 

[robert derrick]

See post #34

Or not go there at all, or there never was any there there at all.

 

[Dropship]

Sure, people will try to patch together verses to "prove" that hell has a swing door, I'm sure satan wants mugs to believe that in order to drop their guard and think "No worry, if I end up in hell i'll be let out eventually".

 

[Raccoon1010]

Or not go there at all, or there never was any there there at all.

Those are his chosen if you believe what some people preach. People that don't go to hell. And the rest is just speculation. There isn't enough information in the bible to assess much about hell. Just it is fiery and people get sent there.