John 1:1 - Jesus is the Father or he's not the one true God?

[Jack]

LOL You cannot answer my question and contradict yourself. If Jesus is your only savior, then God is not. Peculiar.

You don't like the many Scriptures that call God our Savior? Then you don't have a Savior.

Hosea 13
4 You shall know no God but Me; For there is no Savior besides Me.

I LOVE them! Jesus is God my Savior!

 

[GEN2REV]

If Jesus is your only savior, then God is not.

Close.

If Jesus is your Savior, then Jesus is God Almighty.

See?

2 Kings 13:5
Psalms 106:21
Isaiah 19:20
Isaiah 43:3
Isaiah 43:11
Isaiah 45:15
Isaiah 45:21
Jude 1:25
Titus 3:4

 

[Wrangler]

You don't like the many Scriptures that call God our Savior?

Not at all. I love the word of God.

I've noted how you ignore the question of who is your savior; the one who pulls you from water or that person's commander who sent him to save you?

 

[Wrangler]

Close

LOL. No answer yet.

I've noted how you ignore the question of who is your savior; the one who pulls you from water or that person's commander who sent him to save you?

 

[Aunty Jane]

A. That time has not yet come.

You missed the point....even in heaven the Father is still the God of Jesus. He calls Yahweh "my God" four time in that one verse. (Revelation 3:12)
The Revelation was written long after Jesus' ascension to heaven. It was Jesus who received the Revelation from God and gave it to John via an angel. (Revelation 1:1)
Can God have a God?

2. There is only ONE Name that matters.

I agree....but it isn't Jesus.
Acts 2:21...
"And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.’"
This is a quote from Joel 2:32 which in the Jewish Tanakh reads....
"And it shall come to pass that whoever shall call in the name of the Lord shall be delivered".....וְהָיָ֗ה כֹּ֧ל אֲשֶׁר־יִקְרָ֛א בְּשֵׁ֥ם יְהֹוָ֖ה יִמָּלֵ֑ט כִּ֠י בְּהַר־צִיּ֨וֹן וּבִירֽוּשָׁלִַ֜ם תִּֽהְיֶ֣ה פְלֵיטָ֗ה כַּֽאֲשֶׁר֙ אָמַ֣ר יְהֹוָ֔ה וּבַ֨שְּׂרִידִ֔ים אֲשֶׁ֥ר יְהֹוָ֖ה קֹרֵֽא:
Whose name is this....? "יְהֹוָ֖ה" ....."Yahweh". Jesus is never called Yahweh.

Now, what about Acts 4:10-12....?
Acts 4:10-12....can we highlight the other important parts of this scripture...?
"let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead—by him this man is standing before you well. 11 This Jesus is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone. 12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” (ESV)

It was the death of Christ that saved mankind from inevitable sin and death..."there is no salvation in anyone else"...
There is "no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved".
You have to read scripture with the belief of the Bible writer in mind, not what was distorted hundred of years later.
ALL the Bible writers were Jewish.

Philippians 2:5-11....? What about the whole passage?
"Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." (ESV)

What is this scripture plainly telling us?
Jesus was in God's "form" before his earthly mission. What "form" does God have? John tells us that "God is a spirit" (John 4:24) so Jesus was also a spirit. It says that he NEVER thought that "equality with God was something to be grasped"....and "obediently" served as mankind's redeemer, giving his life for ours.
Who did Jesus obey? And if God "highly exalted Jesus" and "bestowed on him a name that is above every name"...think for a moment how God could do that to an equal part of himself.....there are not two gods....and certainly not three, but nothing in the Bible even suggests that Jesus is God. "Divine" yes!...."deity".....NO!

Now the clincher should be the very last portion of that passage....
"at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
Jesus' mission was successfully carried out "to the glory of God the Father" because it was the Father who "sent" him. (John 17:3)

Do you see how many assumptions are made just by reading things into words that are really not there?

 

[Jack]

You missed the point....even in heaven the Father is still the God of Jesus. He calls Yahweh "my God" four time in that one verse. (Revelation 3:12)
The Revelation was written long after Jesus' ascension to heaven. It was Jesus who received the Revelation from God and gave it to John via an angel. (Revelation 1:1)
Can God have a God?

I agree....but it isn't Jesus.
Acts 2:21...
"And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.’"
This is a quote from Joel 2:32 which in the Jewish Tanakh reads....
"And it shall come to pass that whoever shall call in the name of the Lord shall be delivered".....וְהָיָ֗ה כֹּ֧ל אֲשֶׁר־יִקְרָ֛א בְּשֵׁ֥ם יְהֹוָ֖ה יִמָּלֵ֑ט כִּ֠י בְּהַר־צִיּ֨וֹן וּבִירֽוּשָׁלִַ֜ם תִּֽהְיֶ֣ה פְלֵיטָ֗ה כַּֽאֲשֶׁר֙ אָמַ֣ר יְהֹוָ֔ה וּבַ֨שְּׂרִידִ֔ים אֲשֶׁ֥ר יְהֹוָ֖ה קֹרֵֽא:
Whose name is this....? "יְהֹוָ֖ה" ....."Yahweh". Jesus is never called Yahweh.

Now, what about Acts 4:10-12....?
Acts 4:10-12....can we highlight the other important parts of this scripture...?
"let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead—by him this man is standing before you well. 11 This Jesus is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone. 12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” (ESV)

It was the death of Christ that saved mankind from inevitable sin and death..."there is no salvation in anyone else"...
There is "no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved".
You have to read scripture with the belief of the Bible writer in mind, not what was distorted hundred of years later.
ALL the Bible writers were Jewish.

Philippians 2:5-11....? What about the whole passage?
"Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." (ESV)

What is this scripture plainly telling us?
Jesus was in God's "form" before his earthly mission. What "form" does God have? John tells us that "God is a spirit" (John 4:24) so Jesus was also a spirit. It says that he NEVER thought that "equality with God was something to be grasped"....and "obediently" served as mankind's redeemer, giving his life for ours.
Who did Jesus obey? And if God "highly exalted Jesus" and "bestowed on him a name that is above every name"...think for a moment how God could do that to an equal part of himself.....there are not two gods....and certainly not three, but nothing in the Bible even suggests that Jesus is God. "Divine" yes!...."deity".....NO!

Now the clincher should be the very last portion of that passage....
"at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
Jesus' mission was successfully carried out "to the glory of God the Father" because it was the Father who "sent" him. (John 17:3)

Do you see how many assumptions are made just by reading things into words that are really not there?

When JW's can't refute Jesus God they love to smokescreen!

Basic Kingdom Hall doctrine: The Bible doesn't mean what it says!

 

[face2face]

I don’t hold that view, I believe he returned as he said he would many times. There is no way Jesus left all those first century believers in the turmoil they were in.

Hebrews 11:40 always comes to mind.
God has not rewarded those faithful witnesses including all those over the past 2000 years who have witnessed their faith....why?

Hebrews 11:39 And these all were commended for their faith, yet they did not receive what was promised. 11:40 For God had provided something better for us, so that they would be made perfect together with us.

It's humbling to think God waited leaving them in the dust of the earth until such time as you and I could be called, that those faithful in Hebrews 11 have not been made perfect yet....until we all together are gathered and glorified.

Even as I write He is fulfilling Acts of the Apostles 15:14

F2F

 

[face2face]

Only false prophets complicate every single little thing in their preaching.

True messengers of God simplify Biblical concepts and use plain Scripture (not altered and perverted) to support their points. They emphasize what God has to say; NOT what some extra-biblical material, or some so-called Bible expert, says about what God has to say.

Your credibility is wavering badly.

Are you suggesting here wisdom is not hidden? Surely not! Deuteronomy 29:29 John 16:25

 

[face2face]

even I don't agree with him 100%.

And I am happy for people to disagree with me, as I am still learning, and if a Scripture can be opened to give its light, I am all for it!

 

[Jack]

And I am happy for people to disagree with me, as I am still learning, and if a Scripture can be opened to give its light, I am all for it!

If you're learning from Kingdom Hell, you're only learning to do the JW twist to THE everlasting fire!

Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[Kermos]

You are correct.....he cannot have both.


Can we just clarify the words “mortal” and “immortal” first?


An immortal has the power of an indestructible life....nothing can kill an immortal, and at the outset of Yahweh’s creativity only he was immortal. His first creation was his “only begotten son”. (Colossians 1:15; Revelation 3:14)


The Creator has always existed.....always immortal. (1 Timothy 1:17) The pre-human Jesus was not immortal and all the other “sons of God” were likewise not created immortal. In the spirit realm apparently they have what humans were created with, “everlasting life”....but everlasting life is not immortality. It is the ability to go on living, but always subject to obedience to the Creator. It would have been extremely foolish to create free willed beings and not have the means to control them. God’s intelligent children in both realms, need to obey God in order to keep the gift of life.

Satan was the first rebel. He is the one who robbed the humans of their idyllic future.


Humans demonstrate their mortality in ways that spirit beings do not. As material beings, we are dependant on external (material) things to keep living...oxygen, water, food and shelter. All living souls depend on these things, which were supplied in abundance by God within the atmosphere of this planet which was designed to be our permanent home.


Since a “soul” is a living, breathing, earth bound creature, they should not be confused with “spirit” creatures who inhabit the realm where God resides....wherever or whatever “heaven” is.


So with that in mind, we believe that Jesus was a spirit being in heaven who was instrumental in creation, as the agency “through” whom the creation of all things, both in the spirit realm and the material realm, came about. Working at his Father’s side (Proverbs 8:30-31) and under his direction, creation came “through him and for him”. (Colossians 1:15-17) He is part of the “us” and “our” in Genesis 1:26.


So because he was not immortal, but enjoyed everlasting life as an obedient spirit son, he could have his life transferred by Holy Spirit to the womb of an earthly woman to become “the son of God” on earth and act as redeemer for all of Adam’s children, born in sin through no fault of their own. He was 100% mortal human....something God could never be.


Upon his return to heaven, Jesus was given a new name and granted immortality as a reward for his faithful course. Those of his elect will have proven ‘faithful unto death’ and will also inherit immortality in the spirit realm. Flesh and blood cannot exist outside of this specially prepared ‘spaceship’ we call Earth.


The devil and his demons will end their existence in the lake of fire, along with all the disobedient and faithless humans who have been misled by them.....it is a symbolic place that means eternal destruction. Even death and the grave are destroyed in this place. (Revelation 20:13-14)

Aunty Jane mentioned Revelation 3:14 early in her post to you, @GEN2REV, but the effect of Revelation 3:14 is the opposite of her heart's treasure.

John 8:58 and Revelation 3:14 - Harmony or Discord, but not both.

We need to examine both verses verbatim:

Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58).

To the angel of the assembly in Laodicea write: The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God, says this (Revelation 3:14).
​

In harmony, Bible verses like these agree, complement, and support one another.

In discord, Bible verses like these disagree, contradict, and conflict one another.

Let's look at what Lord Jesus DID say;

John 8:58

• Jesus emphasizes the Truth (John 14:6) for He says "truly" not just once but twice.
• Into His declaration, Jesus integrates every year, even every moment of time prior to the moment that Abraham came into existence. It is a comprehensive inclusion.
• With the words "I AM", Jesus declares His existence, even His Being, His Presence.
• In sum, Jesus truly proclaims that He exists always without exception prior to Abraham's existence.

Revelation 3:14

• Jesus identifies His audience as the messenger of the assembly in Laodicea.
• Into His salutation, Jesus amplifies He is the Truth (John 14:6) for Amen means Truly, followed with "true" in "the faithful and true Witness".
• With the words "the Beginning of the creation of God", we find Christ referring to Himself in His capacity of truly God - Jesus declares His pivotal work of Beginning the creation of the Assembly of God for "all things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being" (John 1:3).
• Since Jesus can say one thing with multiple meanings, then with "the Beginning of the creation of God", we find Christ also referring to Himself in His capacity of truly God - Jesus declares His crucial work of "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" (Genesis 1:1) for "all things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being" (John 1:3).
• Since Jesus can say one sentence with multiple meanings, then with "the Beginning of the creation of God", we find Christ also referring to Himself in His capacity of truly Man - He is the Beginning of the Resurrection among many brothers born of God. Jesus is the leader among the Assembly of God (God's Ecclesia).
• Since Jesus can say one phrase with multiple meanings, then with "the Beginning of the creation of God", we find Christ also referring to Himself in His capacity of truly God - He begins the resurrection of individual citizens of God's Kingdom for He says to the self same assembly in Laodicea that He is the Salvation Grantor causing the beginning of every born of God person's inclusion in the Kingdom of God with "He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne" (Revelation 3:21). "Salvation belongs to YHWH" (Psalm 3:8). Jesus is YHWH God of the Assembly of God (God's Ecclesia).
• In sum, Jesus truly proclaims that He is the wonderful Builder that starts (begins) the construction of House of God (we Christians are the House of God).

Let's look at what Lord Jesus DID NOT say:

John 8:58

• Jesus does not say "I was created".
• Jesus does not say "Falsely, falsely, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM".
• Jesus does not say "before Abraham was, I am except when I was not".
• Jesus does not say "before Abraham was, I was not".
• Jesus does not say "Abraham was without beginning", that is, a soul that existed perpetually in time past (truly, Jesus, a Jew, pronounced that Abraham, a human, had a beginning point of being created).
• Jesus does not say "I am he" because that would mix the grammatical first person and third person in the original Greek where there is no third person (truly, "I AM" (ego eimi) is exclusively first person for both words).
• Jesus does not say "before Abraham was, I was just a thought by God before I came into existence" (truly, "AM" (eimi) is a present tense verb that signifies presence and existence particularly when paired with the subject noun of "I" (ego)).

Revelation 3:14

• Jesus does not say "I was created".
• Jesus does not say "the Beginning creature of the creation of God" about Himself (see that the word "creature" does not belong to the original Greek).
• Jesus does not say "the first created being of the creation of God" about Himself.

Man injects discord into the Word of God by trying to stuff words into the mouth of Jesus Christ. For example, the hearts of Unitarian persons and Watchtower Society people adulterate the Word of God to say things listed in the "Let's look at what Lord Jesus DID NOT say" list above; therefore, the recorded scripture is no longer the righteous Word of God, but the man-made sayings are the wicked word of man.

God maintains harmony of the Word of God for there is One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4) whose memorial name to all generations is I AM (Exodus 3:14), and, other than YHWH, no other deity exists (Isaiah 45:5). For example, see what the Word of God says in the "Let's look at what Lord Jesus DID say" list above. We Christians hear the Christ, our Leader, and we are enamored by His awesomely profound sayings.

Man's discord predicates "scripture states that Jesus was created".

God's harmony predicates "no scripture states that Jesus was created".

Discord is the spirit of the antichrist (1 John 4:3).

Harmony is the Holy Spirit of the Living God (1 Corinthians 14:33).

The Word of God says Jesus Christ is YHWH God (John 8:58)! Hallelujah! Amen! Amen!

 

[HIM]

The unbelievers heartfully nullify the Holy Writ.

They need to be illumined:
@Aunty Jane @Rich R @APAK @tigger 2 @JohnPaul @Keiw @True Faith @face2face @Wrangler

Jesus being God is consistent Apostolic testimony, and herein is the Holy Writ quoted.

The Apostle Paul calls Jesus "the great God" (τοῦ μεγάλου Θεοῦ) with "looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of the great God and Savior of us, Christ Jesus" (Titus 2:13).

Jesus was powerless without the Father as we all our. As Jesus said in John 14 of himself, He (God) doeth the work.
I like Titus. The letter is outstanding. Chapter 1 debunks your theorem. Paul was a servant of God and an apostle of the Jesus Christ. Two different entities being spoken of here, not one. As verse four brings out. God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ.

(Titus 1:1 [KJV])
Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

(Titus 1:2 [KJV])
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

(Titus 1:3 [KJV])
But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;

(Titus 1:4 [KJV])
To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.

(Titus 1:5 [KJV])
For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:

 

[Kermos]

Jesus was powerless without the Father as we all our. As Jesus said in John 14 of himself, He (God) doeth the work.

I like Titus. The letter is outstanding. Chapter 1 debunks your theorem. Paul was a servant of God and an apostle of the Jesus Christ. Two different entities being spoken of here, not one. As verse four brings out. God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ.


(Titus 1:1 [KJV])

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;


(Titus 1:2 [KJV])

In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;


(Titus 1:3 [KJV])

But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;


(Titus 1:4 [KJV])

To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.


(Titus 1:5 [KJV])

For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:

Jesus reveals Himself as truly God and truly Man at His discretion.

Jesus Christ is truly Man (Luke 1:26-33) - the Son of Man, and Jesus Christ is truly God (Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28, John 5:18, John 10:30-31) - the Son of God.

Based on this Truth (John 14:6), Jesus Christ can refer to Himself as Man at his discretion and when He deems it is appropriate.

Furthermore. Jesus Christ can refer to Himself as God at his discretion and when He deems it is appropriate.

Here is an instance of Jesus, truly God, saying "I and the Father are One" (John 10:30) in which Jesus speaks in His capacity of God thus including both the person of Jesus and the person of the Father in the One True God.

Here is another instance, this time of Jesus, truly Man, saying "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'" (John 20:17) in which Jesus speaks in His capacity of Man thus including the person of Jesus and His brothers in one (John 17:21). See, the Son of Man being the firstborn of the born of God persons (Romans 8:29, Colossians 1:15, John 3:3-8).

When Jesus says "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me" (John 6:38), then according to the Jesus, truly Man, Jesus does the will of the Father who sent the Son.

When Jesus says "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58), then according to the Jesus, truly God, Jesus exists in eternity past which means Jesus is uncreated thus Jesus proclaims that Jesus is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).

We, children of God, can also refer to Jesus in his capacity as truly God as well as His capacity as truly Man. We can use context to make the distinction.

We, born of the Holy Spirit of God persons (John 3:3-8), are one in God (John 17:21) because of the indwelling Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17), thus God is One. We are the blessed beneficiaries of the Holy Spirit of God's work in us.

People who do not believe that Jesus is God are people who are not blessed beneficiaries of the Holy Spirit of God, so such people cannot see the Kingdom of God nor even King Jesus (John 3:3-8) for Who He is. You do not believe that Jesus is God.

Jesus is "I AM" before Jesus was begotten.

Jesus, truly God, always exists "before Abraham" as "I AM" (John 8:58) prior to Mary being told the beget event of Jesus, truly Man, prophecy by Gabriel "you will conceive in your womb and bear a Son" (Luke 1:34).

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Word of God proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58) and the Word of God says "I will settle him in My house and in My kingdom forever, and his throne shall be established forever" (1 Chronicles 17:14), so according to the Word, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past and will exist in eternity future which means the Word is uncreated thus the Word proclaims that the Word is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past and future (Isaiah 45:5).

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8) (see see the Truth [John 14:6] that God had me compose in post #283 to expose the deception of tigger 2 and Rich R).

 

[HIM]

The unbelievers heartfully nullify the Holy Writ.



The Apostle Peter calls Jesus "the God" (τοῦ Θεοῦ) with "Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours by the righteousness of the God of us and Savior Jesus Christ" (2 Peter 1:1).

.

I love 2 Peter. Great letter. I see you quote from the Greek. Did you notice the use of the definite article τοῦ in reference to the God and Jesus being, the Lord. And how they are separated by the Greek conjunctive particle καὶ. Clearly by this we see that Peter did not call Jesus God but Lord.

(2Pet 1:2 [TRi])
χάρις Grace
ὑμῖν To You
καὶ And
εἰρήνη Peace
πληθυνθείη Be Multiplied
ἐν In 'The'
ἐπιγνώσει Knowledge
τοῦ θεοῦ Of the God,
καὶ And
Ἰησοῦ Of Jesus
τοῦ the
κυρίου Lord
ἡμῶν Our Lord.

 

[Kermos]

Jesus was powerless without the Father as we all our. As Jesus said in John 14 of himself, He (God) doeth the work.

I like Titus. The letter is outstanding. Chapter 1 debunks your theorem. Paul was a servant of God and an apostle of the Jesus Christ. Two different entities being spoken of here, not one. As verse four brings out. God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ.


(Titus 1:1 [KJV])

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;


(Titus 1:2 [KJV])

In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;


(Titus 1:3 [KJV])

But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;


(Titus 1:4 [KJV])

To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.


(Titus 1:5 [KJV])

For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:

You need to be caught up on how your type of "Jesus is not God" thoughts against Apostolic testimony have been shown to be linguistic foolishness and Spiritually dead.

@Aunty Jane replied to the Apostolic testimony post with her unbelief, and here are the replies to her. You, Aunty Jane, failed to respond to a single one of the posts!

The Truth (John 14:6) has been proclaimed to you, and in a single post, you expose a multitude of Watchtower Society people's deception:

• From Apostolic testimony, the Word of God reveals Jesus as truly God and truly Man at His discretion, and the children of God do so according to the Holy Spirit, yet you deny this Truth (John 14:6) as shown in this linked post.
• From Apostolic testimony, the Greek grammar very specifically results in the Apostle Paul calling Jesus "the great God" in Titus 2:13, yet you deny this Truth (John 14:6) as shown in this linked post.
• Your heart corrupts Apostolic testimony because you added words into Paul's words, so you deny tte Truth (John 14:6) that Paul wrote as shown in this linked post.
• From Apostolic testimony, the Apostle Thomas calls Jesus "my God" in John 20:28, yet you deny this Truth (John 14:6) as shown in this linked post.
• From Apostolic testimony, there is One True God, and no other true gods exist (The figure of speech called an oxymoron respecting "you are gods" (Psalm 82:6, John 10:34) and "many gods" (1 Corinthians 8:5)), yet you deny this Truth (John 14:6) as shown in this linked post.
• From Apostolic testimony, the Names of God are precious to Christians, and this includes the Name of God "Immanuel" for in this Name is our blessed Salvation (Matthew 1:23) - "Salvation belongs to YHWH" (Psalm 3:8), yet you vainly use the Names of God, so you deny this Truth (John 14:6) as shown in this linked post.
• The Word, Jesus, is everlasting God (John 1:1, Psalm 119:89), yet you deny this Truth (John 14:6) by thinking the Word is "a god" as shown in this linked post.
• God's memorial-name to all generations is the ever-present "I AM" according to accurately translated Scripture from the Tanakh (Exodus 3:14), yet you deny this Truth (John 14:6) as shown in this linked post.
• Jesus declares in no uncertain terms that He is uncreated with "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58), yet you deny this Truth (John 14:6) as shown in this linked post.
• YHWH is God's Holy Name, yet you think Jehovah, a name intentionally removed from God's Holy Name, is God's name as shown in this linked post.
• Jesus being "the Beginning of the creation of God" (Revelation 3:14) refers to Jesus being the starting point Creator God of all the Assembly of God, that is, the creation of God - not that Jesus was created for He did not say "I am the first created being of the creation of God" (your conjuring), yet you deny this Truth (John 14:6) as shown in this linked post.
• Your heart's "Jesus is not I AM" treasure is false because the Word of God says "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58) and "unless you believe that I AM, you will die in your sins" (John 8:24) thus Jesus proclaims that He is "I AM" - THAT HE IS YHWH GOD (EXODUS 3:14), yet you deny this Truth (John 14:6) as shown in this linked post.
• The One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4) is Spirit (John 4:24), and the One True God exists as the person of the Father (John 17:11, Romans 1:7) and the person of Jesus (John 1:1, John 1:14, John 8:58) and the person of the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17, Acts 5:3-4), yet you deny this Holy Truth (John 14:6) as shown in this linked post.

 

[Kermos]

I love 2 Peter. Great letter. I see you quote from the Greek. Did you notice the use of the definite article τοῦ in reference to the God and Jesus being, the Lord. And how they are separated by the Greek conjunctive particle καὶ. Clearly by this we see that Peter did not call Jesus God but Lord.


(2Pet 1:2 [TRi])

χάρις Grace

ὑμῖν To You

καὶ And

εἰρήνη Peace

πληθυνθείη Be Multiplied

ἐν In 'The'

ἐπιγνώσει Knowledge

τοῦ θεοῦ Of the God,

καὶ And

Ἰησοῦ Of Jesus

τοῦ the

κυρίου Lord

ἡμῶν Our Lord.

"And" is a conjoining conjunction per the grammatical usage by Peter.

2 Peter 1:1 truthfully exegeted with Greek grammar rules applied maintains consistent Apostolic testimony.

Here is the English-Greek full word-for-word of 2 Peter 1:1:

Simon-Συμεὼν Peter-Πέτρος slave-δοῦλος and-καὶ apostle-ἀπόστολος Jesus-Ἰησοῦ Christ-Χριστοῦ the-Τοῖς precious-ἰσότιμον ours-ἡμῖν obtain-λαχοῦσιν belief-πίστιν in-ἐν righteousness-δικαιοσύνῃ the-τοῦ God-Θεοῦ us-ἡμῶν and-καὶ Savior-Σωτῆρος Jesus-Ἰησοῦ Christ-Χριστοῦ (2 Peter 1:1)

All of these words "God", "Savior", "Jesus", and "Christ" are genitive, singular, and masculine in this passage thus these words after the salutation are to be taken together as a single cohesive unit according to Greek grammar rules, and this unit, Jesus Christ the God and Savior of us, is the object impacting the objects of "faith" (belief) and "righteousness" being applied to the subject of the clause ("To those" is the grammatical subject which is the letter recipients).

The logical "and" in the phrase "the God of us and Savior Jesus Christ" (2 Peter 1:1) is linguistically, logically, and Spiritually tied to Jesus Christ because the words "faith", singular, as well as the word "righteousness", singular, in the phrase "having obtained a faith equally precious with ours in righteousness of" (2 Peter 1:1); therefore, Peter singularly refers to "the God of us" and "Savior" and "Jesus Christ" as One singular.

See that linguistically, "faith" and "righteosness" would need to be plural in order to agree with the subject of "To those", which is plural, in order for "faith" and "righteosness" to be disassociated from Jesus Christ the God and Savior of us which could then lead to legitimate discussion about "the God of us" and "Savior" and "Jesus Christ" to be considered linguistacally in this one single passage for disassociation in the evil manner which you think applies.

THE APOSTLE PETER INDISPUTABLY CALLS JESUS "THE GOD OF US" (τοῦ Θεοῦ ἡμῶν) WITH "SIMON PETER, A SLAVE AND APOSTLE OF JESUS CHRIST, TO THOSE HAVING OBTAINED A FAITH EQUALLY PRECIOUS WITH OURS IN RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE GOD OF US AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST" (2 PETER 1:1).

The Greek grammar rules make 2 Peter 1:1 utterly clear in order to avoid confusion, yet you have managed to confuse yourself into constructing an idol that you call Jesus (Isaiah 45:16) which is not the true Jesus (Isaiah 9:6, John 8:58) unto eternal punishment (John 3:36) according to your current state (1 Corinthians 2:14, John 8:24).

 

[GEN2REV]

... even in heaven the Father is still the God of Jesus. He calls Yahweh "my God" four time in that one verse. (Revelation 3:12)

And God calls Jesus GOD in this verse. (Hebrews 1:8) You can't cherry pick to make your case. The Bible must be taken in its entirety.

It was Jesus who received the Revelation from God and gave it to John via an angel. (Revelation 1:1)

Jesus IS God.

Can God have a God?

Nope, and yet Jesus is STILL God.

I agree....but it isn't Jesus.

Jesus is NOT God's god, ... Jesus IS GOD!

 

[GEN2REV]

Are you suggesting here wisdom is not hidden? Surely not! Deuteronomy 29:29 John 16:25

Your chosen verses support my argument.

 

[HIM]

The Apostle Thomas calls Jesus "my God" wirh "My Lord and my God" (John 20:28).

And God was the Word. And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us. Amen, that he be the firstborn among many brethren. Bringing many sons to glory, sons of God through God and His Spirit through Christ. The Mediator between God and Man. That we be one as they are one that the world might believe.

(John 10:32 [KJV])
Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

(John 10:33 [KJV])
The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

(John 10:34 [KJV])
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

(John 10:35 [KJV])
If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
(Rom 8:29 [KJV])
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
(Heb 2:10 [KJV])
For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
(John 17:21 [KJV])
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

 

[HIM]

Jesus reveals Himself as truly God and truly Man at His discretion.

Jesus Christ is truly Man (Luke 1:26-33) - the Son of Man, and Jesus Christ is truly God (Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28, John 5:18, John 10:30-31) - the Son of God.

Based on this Truth (John 14:6), Jesus Christ can refer to Himself as Man at his discretion and when He deems it is appropriate.

Furthermore. Jesus Christ can refer to Himself as God at his discretion and when He deems it is appropriate.

Here is an instance of Jesus, truly God, saying "I and the Father are One" (John 10:30) in which Jesus speaks in His capacity of God thus including both the person of Jesus and the person of the Father in the One True God.

Here is another instance, this time of Jesus, truly Man, saying "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'" (John 20:17) in which Jesus speaks in His capacity of Man thus including the person of Jesus and His brothers in one (John 17:21). See, the Son of Man being the firstborn of the born of God persons (Romans 8:29, Colossians 1:15, John 3:3-8).

When Jesus says "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me" (John 6:38), then according to the Jesus, truly Man, Jesus does the will of the Father who sent the Son.

When Jesus says "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58), then according to the Jesus, truly God, Jesus exists in eternity past which means Jesus is uncreated thus Jesus proclaims that Jesus is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).

We, children of God, can also refer to Jesus in his capacity as truly God as well as His capacity as truly Man. We can use context to make the distinction.

We, born of the Holy Spirit of God persons (John 3:3-8), are one in God (John 17:21) because of the indwelling Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17), thus God is One. We are the blessed beneficiaries of the Holy Spirit of God's work in us.

People who do not believe that Jesus is God are people who are not blessed beneficiaries of the Holy Spirit of God, so such people cannot see the Kingdom of God nor even King Jesus (John 3:3-8) for Who He is. You do not believe that Jesus is God.

Jesus is "I AM" before Jesus was begotten.

Jesus, truly God, always exists "before Abraham" as "I AM" (John 8:58) prior to Mary being told the beget event of Jesus, truly Man, prophecy by Gabriel "you will conceive in your womb and bear a Son" (Luke 1:34).

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Word of God proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58) and the Word of God says "I will settle him in My house and in My kingdom forever, and his throne shall be established forever" (1 Chronicles 17:14), so according to the Word, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past and will exist in eternity future which means the Word is uncreated thus the Word proclaims that the Word is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past and future (Isaiah 45:5).

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8) (see see the Truth [John 14:6] that God had me compose in post #283 to expose the deception of tigger 2 and Rich R).

Titus and your interpretation was the topic of the post you replied to. Here is the post again. However, in reference to your post. I also notice that you did not bother to address the opening sentence either from the post you responded to. The premise being, Jesus had no power in and of himself.

Jesus was powerless without the Father as we all our. As Jesus said in John 14 of himself, He (God) doeth the work.
I like Titus. The letter is outstanding. Chapter 1 debunks your theorem. Paul was a servant of God and an apostle of the Jesus Christ. Two different entities being spoken of here, not one. As verse four brings out. God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ.

(Titus 1:1 [KJV])
Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

(Titus 1:2 [KJV])
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

(Titus 1:3 [KJV])
But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;

(Titus 1:4 [KJV])
To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.

(Titus 1:5 [KJV])
For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee: