John 1:1 - Jesus is the Father or he's not the one true God?

[GEN2REV]

Resorting to personal attack proves you have lost the argument but lack the divine spirit of humility to admit it.

If I was calling you random names out of anger and some loss of self-control, then maybe you'd be right.

That's not the case.

I carefully selected the word delusional for its exact definition of how you're conducting yourself. Therefore it wasn't an attack at all. It was a description of your behavior and your mind state.

After being proven wrong with Scripture dozens and dozens of times, you not only circle back around to the same points of contention that have already been effectively addressed, but you wildly bring up topics that are not even relevant to the discussion or the individual you are discussing with.

You are delusional or you are pushing propaganda for your agenda, Soul Wrangler.

You choose.

 

[Wrangler]

I carefully selected the word delusional for its exact definition of how you're conducting yourself.

Hey, right back at you brother. The difference is I have explicit Scripture backing me up and you have rage.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Is Jesus mortal or not?

You can't have it both ways.

You are correct.....he cannot have both.

Can we just clarify the words “mortal” and “immortal” first?

An immortal has the power of an indestructible life....nothing can kill an immortal, and at the outset of Yahweh’s creativity only he was immortal. His first creation was his “only begotten son”. (Colossians 1:15; Revelation 3:14)

The Creator has always existed.....always immortal. (1 Timothy 1:17) The pre-human Jesus was not immortal and all the other “sons of God” were likewise not created immortal. In the spirit realm apparently they have what humans were created with, “everlasting life”....but everlasting life is not immortality. It is the ability to go on living, but always subject to obedience to the Creator. It would have been extremely foolish to create free willed beings and not have the means to control them. God’s intelligent children in both realms, need to obey God in order to keep the gift of life.
Satan was the first rebel. He is the one who robbed the humans of their idyllic future.

Humans demonstrate their mortality in ways that spirit beings do not. As material beings, we are dependant on external (material) things to keep living...oxygen, water, food and shelter. All living souls depend on these things, which were supplied in abundance by God within the atmosphere of this planet which was designed to be our permanent home.

Since a “soul” is a living, breathing, earth bound creature, they should not be confused with “spirit” creatures who inhabit the realm where God resides....wherever or whatever “heaven” is.

So with that in mind, we believe that Jesus was a spirit being in heaven who was instrumental in creation, as the agency “through” whom the creation of all things, both in the spirit realm and the material realm, came about. Working at his Father’s side (Proverbs 8:30-31) and under his direction, creation came “through him and for him”. (Colossians 1:15-17) He is part of the “us” and “our” in Genesis 1:26.

So because he was not immortal, but enjoyed everlasting life as an obedient spirit son, he could have his life transferred by Holy Spirit to the womb of an earthly woman to become “the son of God” on earth and act as redeemer for all of Adam’s children, born in sin through no fault of their own. He was 100% mortal human....something God could never be.

Upon his return to heaven, Jesus was given a new name and granted immortality as a reward for his faithful course. Those of his elect will have proven ‘faithful unto death’ and will also inherit immortality in the spirit realm. Flesh and blood cannot exist outside of this specially prepared ‘spaceship’ we call Earth.

The devil and his demons will end their existence in the lake of fire, along with all the disobedient and faithless humans who have been misled by them.....it is a symbolic place that means eternal destruction. Even death and the grave are destroyed in this place. (Revelation 20:13-14)

 

[Aunty Jane]

I’m not a futurist, for me this has already taken place and the grave has no power.

The power of the grave is that it holds the dead. No one gets out of there without Jesus, who said he would call all the dead out of their graves.....(John 5:28-29).....that was to be in the future, so how do you correlate the scriptures that pertain to the future without believing in what was to come?

Prophesy is, after all, history written in advance. God does not create that history, we do. He has foreseen all things future and told us what to expect.....how do you respond to that?

 

[face2face]

I’m not a futurist, for me this has already taken place and the grave has no power.

In this matter Jane is correct. Take a look at Romans 8:1 - those found to be "in Christ" now have no more condemnation both in relation to their mortality and death and in sin if found repentant. So Romans 6 of course is all about Baptism and how a person constitutionally becomes "in Christ" and thereby now has no condemnation. While God is still calling Gentiles out of the peoples those buried remain held by it's power until such time as the voice releases them. You might recall reading Revelation 1:18 which makes reference to Jesus now having the keys to death and the grave (hades) which again shows you it's in his power to use those keys at a future time, which he will do as promised.

Hope that helps
F2F

 

[Wrangler]

granted immortality as a reward for his faithful course.

I can hear trinitarians heads explode.

Upon his return to heaven, Jesus was given a new name

What name is that?

 

[face2face]

The Creator has always existed.....always immortal. (1 Timothy 1:17) The pre-human Jesus was not immortal and all the other “sons of God” were likewise not created immortal. In the spirit realm apparently they have what humans were created with, “everlasting life”....but everlasting life is not immortality. It is the ability to go on living, but always subject to obedience to the Creator. It would have been extremely foolish to create free willed beings and not have the means to control them. God’s intelligent children in both realms, need to obey God in order to keep the gift of life.
Satan was the first rebel. He is the one who robbed the humans of their idyllic future.

@GEN2REV You will notice the lack of quotes when Jane moves away from Bible truth into error! Firstly, everlasting life is the same as immortality and are concepts Paul uses interchangeably.

Romans 2:7 is a really good example:

Romans 2:6 He will reward each one according to his works: 2:7 eternal life to those who by perseverance in good works seek glory and honor and immortality,

All these speak to the same divine existence upon being found worthy of such a reward.

Eternal life is quantity and immortality is the quality - both speaking to the same divine existence.

Hope that helps
F2F

 

[Waiting on him]

so how do you correlate the scriptures that pertain to the future without believing in what was to come?

By accepting that it already came.

 

[GEN2REV]

@GEN2REV You will notice the lack of quotes when Jane moves away from Bible truth into error! Firstly, everlasting life is the same as immortality and are concepts Paul uses interchangeably.

Romans 2:7 is a really good example:

Romans 2:6 He will reward each one according to his works: 2:7 eternal life to those who by perseverance in good works seek glory and honor and immortality,

All these speak to the same divine existence upon being found worthy of such a reward.

Eternal life is quantity and immortality is the quality - both speaking to the same divine existence.

Hope that helps
F2F

Only false prophets complicate every single little thing in their preaching.

True messengers of God simplify Biblical concepts and use plain Scripture (not altered and perverted) to support their points. They emphasize what God has to say; NOT what some extra-biblical material, or some so-called Bible expert, says about what God has to say.

Your credibility is wavering badly.

 

[Wrangler]

Only false prophets complicate every single little thing in their preaching.

True messengers of God simplify Biblical concepts and use plain Scripture (not altered and perverted) to support their points. They emphasize what God has to say; NOT what some extra-biblical material, or some so-called Bible expert, says about what God has to say.

I was going to give you a like for this ...

Your credibility is wavering badly.

... but then withdrew it with your needless Appeal to Ad Homenim. IMO, @face2face has a lot of credibility - even I don't agree with him 100%.

 

[Waiting on him]

In this matter Jane is correct. Take a look at Romans 8:1 - those found to be "in Christ" now have no more condemnation both in relation to their mortality and death and in sin if found repentant. So Romans 6 of course is all about Baptism and how a person constitutionally becomes "in Christ" and thereby now has no condemnation. While God is still calling Gentiles out of the peoples those buried remain held by it's power until such time as the voice releases them. You might recall reading Revelation 1:18 which makes reference to Jesus now having the keys to death and the grave (hades) which again shows you it's in his power to use those keys at a future time, which he will do as promised.

Hope that helps
F2F

I don’t hold that view, I believe he returned as he said he would many times. There is no way Jesus left all those first century believers in the turmoil they were in.

 

[Jack]

Nice.

Haven't read Titus in a while.

Adding that verse to my arsenal.

There are several that say God is THE Savior.

Jesus is God!

 

[Wrangler]

There are several that say God is THE Savior.

Jesus is God!

I've noted how you ignore the question of who is your savior; the one who pulls you from water or that person's commander who sent him to save you?

 

[Aunty Jane]

I can hear trinitarians heads explode.

I Know....but exploding heads will not alter the truth. Exploding heads are nothing new....Jesus confronted them too.

What name is that?

Revelation 3:12....
“All who are victorious will become pillars in the Temple of my God, and they will never have to leave it. And I will write on them the name of my God, and they will be citizens in the city of my God—the new Jerusalem that comes down from heaven from my God. And I will also write on them my new name.” (NLT)

Here Jesus demonstrates that Yahweh (who has only one name) is still his God even in heaven....but notice what else he says....
He has a new name, but he does not tell us what his new name is.....:smlhmm:

 

[Jack]

I've noted how you ignore the question of who is your savior; the one who pulls you from water or that person's commander who sent him to save you?

Jesus is the ONLY Savior! If God isn't your Savior you don't have a Savior.
Isaiah 43
11 I, even I, am the LORD, And besides Me there is no savior.

 

[GEN2REV]

I was going to give you a like for this ...
... but then withdrew it with your needless Appeal to Ad Homenim. IMO, @face2face has a lot of credibility - even I don't agree with him 100%.

You ARE him.

 

[GEN2REV]

There are several that say God is THE Savior.

Jesus is God!

Yes, in the OT and NT.

Jude 1:25 is one of my favs.

 

[GEN2REV]

I've noted how you ignore the question of who is your savior; the one who pulls you from water or that person's commander who sent him to save you?

What would be the difference?

 

[GEN2REV]

I Know....but exploding heads will not alter the truth. Exploding heads are nothing new....Jesus confronted them too.


Revelation 3:12....
“All who are victorious will become pillars in the Temple of my God, and they will never have to leave it. And I will write on them the name of my God, and they will be citizens in the city of my God—the new Jerusalem that comes down from heaven from my God. And I will also write on them my new name.” (NLT)

Here Jesus demonstrates that Yahweh (who has only one name) is still his God even in heaven....but notice what else he says....
He has a new name, but he does not tell us what his new name is.....:smlhmm:

A. That time has not yet come.

2. There is only ONE Name that matters.

Acts 4:10-12
Philippians 2:9

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus is the ONLY Savior! If God isn't your Savior you don't have a Savior.
Isaiah 43
11 I, even I, am the LORD, And besides Me there is no savior.

LOL You cannot answer my question and contradict yourself. If Jesus is your only savior, then God is not. Peculiar.