Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
98% of the Christian Body of 2.7 billion get it. Non-Trinitarians still struggle with this concept. It's okay, Jesus will straighten you out later.
Be born again to be whose child?
- Thread starter ElieG12
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Thanks for the info. I'll aport another data to you:
Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
He was talking about this fact:
Matt. 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
I think the argumentum ad populum you are appealing to, shouldn't affect honest Christians, don't you think?
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
View attachment 26901
Narrow is the gate ... Jesus is the way, truth and life, the doorway if you will and a remnant is to be saved. The Church consists of right around 1/3 of the population of the planet and that is what God intended. 1/3 is narrow. JW's would believe that 1/900th is about the narrowness of the door according to their weak numbers. If only 1 in 900 got saved, I would question the power of God - seriously.
Thanks for your "explanation" :)
Jesus is the Son of God, didn't you know that?
When a Christian is born again, he becomes a child of God. What relationship have a child of God with the Son of God?
Don't waste time trying to mystify the issue; it is very simple to understand to any simple person (Luke 10:21).
But if you still have doubts, listen to Jesus himself:
John 20:17 Jesus saith to her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended unto the Father: but go unto my brethren, and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.
It is so simple to understand! Why do people like to complicate things so much? A child of God becomes a brother of Jesus.
Believe in Jesus; do not negate him.
Jesus is the Son of God, didn't you know that?
When a Christian is born again, he becomes a child of God. What relationship have a child of God with the Son of God?
Don't waste time trying to mystify the issue; it is very simple to understand to any simple person (Luke 10:21).
But if you still have doubts, listen to Jesus himself:
John 20:17 Jesus saith to her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended unto the Father: but go unto my brethren, and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.
It is so simple to understand! Why do people like to complicate things so much? A child of God becomes a brother of Jesus.
Believe in Jesus; do not negate him.
In Christendom (at least the one that we see online) ... people give birth to themselves. 
Where do people get the idea that being "born again" is something a person decides to do of their own free will? Can someone give birth to himself, and then decide who was the father who begat him? Sometimes not even the mother knows...
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Do you know who the Father of the "born again" is? Who is the eldest of the brothers?
Where do people get the idea that being "born again" is something a person decides to do of their own free will? Can someone give birth to himself, and then decide who was the father who begat him? Sometimes not even the mother knows...
.Do you know who the Father of the "born again" is? Who is the eldest of the brothers?
If I were in your place I would worry about how to reason better.
Do the math in the Flood event and see for yourself.
1 Pet. 3:20 (...) God was patiently waiting in Noah’s day, while the ark was being constructed, in which a few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
The statement applies to post flood obviously but more accurately from Christ forward.
The concept of 1/3 being saved comes from the following passage, which refers specifically to Israel during the Great Tribulation.
And it will come about in all the land,”
Declares the Lord,
“That two parts in it will be cut off and perish;
But the third will be left in it.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire,
Refine them as silver is refined,
And test them as gold is tested.
They will call on My name,
And I will answer them;
I will say, ‘They are My people,’
And they will say, ‘The Lord is my God.’”
Zechariah 13:8-9
Currently there are close to 1/3 Christians, 2.65 billion. What a coincidence aye!
Yes, it is an interesting coincidence ... maybe.
Did you really understand the passage?
Zech. 3:8 “And in all the land,” declares Jehovah,
“Two parts in it will be cut off and perish;
And the third part will be left remaining in it.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire;
And I will refine them as silver is refined,
And test them as gold is tested.
They will call on my name,
And I will answer them.
I will say, ‘They are my people,’
And they will say, ‘Jehovah is our God.’”
There is a clue there about how this "third" can be recognized. Did you realize what that key is?
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
- Read Romans 11. Paul clearly explains the distinction between Israel and tue Gentiles. Branches were broken off, so that we could be grafted in. God is not done with the Jews. He will remove their veil and they will finally see their Messiah, Jesus. He will rule_ in Jerusalem_ during the Millennial Kingdom!
And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among mankind by which we must be saved. Acts 4:12
For it is written: “ As I live, says the LORD, Every knee shall bow to Me, And every tongue shall confess to God.”
Romans 14:11
You're confusing Zac. 3:8,9 with your beliefs.
Don't you know how to distinguish between Jehovah and Jesus?
Zech. 3:8 “And in all the land,” declares Jehovah,
“Two parts in it will be cut off and perish;
And the third part will be left remaining in it.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire;
And I will refine them as silver is refined,
And test them as gold is tested.
They will call on my name,
And I will answer them.
I will say, ‘They are my people,’
And they will say, ‘Jehovah is our God.’”
Don't you know how to distinguish between Jehovah and Jesus?
Zech. 3:8 “And in all the land,” declares Jehovah,
“Two parts in it will be cut off and perish;
And the third part will be left remaining in it.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire;
And I will refine them as silver is refined,
And test them as gold is tested.
They will call on my name,
And I will answer them.
I will say, ‘They are my people,’
And they will say, ‘Jehovah is our God.’”
1) Jesus was anointed by Jehovah (Is. 61:1,2; Acts 4:27)
2) Jesus was the prophet "Moses-like" that Jehovah had promised (Dt. 18:15-18; Acts 3:22-26)
3) Jehovah sat Jesus Christ at His right hand when He raised him (Psal. 110:1,2; Eph. 1:17-23)
4) Jehovah chose Jesus as High Priest in the manner of Melchizedek (Psal. 110:4; Hebrews 5:6,10)
5) Jesus is Jehovah's heir (Psal. 2:8; Hebrews 1:2)
6) Jehovah stated Jesus Christ is His Son (Psal. 2:7; Hebrews 5:5)
Don't get biased when you read the Bible because of your preconceived ideas.
Be real: learn to distinguish between Jehovah and Jesus.
2) Jesus was the prophet "Moses-like" that Jehovah had promised (Dt. 18:15-18; Acts 3:22-26)
3) Jehovah sat Jesus Christ at His right hand when He raised him (Psal. 110:1,2; Eph. 1:17-23)
4) Jehovah chose Jesus as High Priest in the manner of Melchizedek (Psal. 110:4; Hebrews 5:6,10)
5) Jesus is Jehovah's heir (Psal. 2:8; Hebrews 1:2)
6) Jehovah stated Jesus Christ is His Son (Psal. 2:7; Hebrews 5:5)
Don't get biased when you read the Bible because of your preconceived ideas.
Be real: learn to distinguish between Jehovah and Jesus.
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If any of you can't distinguish between Jehovah and Jesus, you don't have the slightest idea about anything related to being born again. Jehovah is God and Father of those born-again, and Jesus is brother to and joint-heir with God's anointed ones.
John 20:17 Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’”
Rom. 8:15 For you did not receive a spirit of slavery causing fear again, but you received a spirit of adoption as sons, by which spirit we cry out: “Abba, Father!” 16 The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17 If, then, we are children, we are also heirs—heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ—provided we suffer together so that we may also be glorified together.
Those who do not respect Jehovah God have never been his children or born of anything ... if any born again, it may be of another father and with other brothers.
John 20:17 Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’”
Rom. 8:15 For you did not receive a spirit of slavery causing fear again, but you received a spirit of adoption as sons, by which spirit we cry out: “Abba, Father!” 16 The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17 If, then, we are children, we are also heirs—heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ—provided we suffer together so that we may also be glorified together.
Those who do not respect Jehovah God have never been his children or born of anything ... if any born again, it may be of another father and with other brothers.
The Bible does mention that God's anointed ones have to be "born again," "born from above"...
For that, they have to receive the Holy Spirit that marks them as heirs of the promise of going to heaven to reign with Jesus.
Luke 22:28 “However, you are the ones who have stuck with me in my trials; 29 and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom, 30 so that you may eat and drink at my table in my Kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the 12 tribes of Israel.
Not all Christians will be kings with Jesus in heaven because the Scriptures specify that the number is limited and small compared to the number of people who will survive the great tribulation that is coming. While those survivors will be on earth, the co-regents with Jesus will be in heaven.
Luke 12:32 Have no fear, little flock, for your Father has approved of giving you the Kingdom.
The first "born again" humans were the Christians gathered in Jerusalem in the year 33. They received holy spirit directly from heaven (Acts 2). They were the ones who led the preaching work that was carried out during the first century, and after their death the devil took advantage to grow the apostate church that deceived the world.
1 Pet. 1:10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets who prophesied about the undeserved kindness meant for you made a diligent inquiry and a careful search. 11 They kept on investigating what particular time or what season the spirit within them was indicating concerning Christ as it testified beforehand about the sufferings meant for Christ and about the glory that would follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were ministering, not to themselves, but to you, regarding what has now been announced to you by those who declared the good news to you with holy spirit sent from heaven. Into these very things, angels are desiring to peer.
The thousands of movements calling themselves "Christian" today do not represent these truths correctly. This is why people are so mistaken about these matters. They do not have truly God-anointed spiritual guides, like the elders and apostles in Jerusalem, to help them understand fundamental Bible truths. Believers are scattered, each seeking their own understanding according to their own heart, each assuming and acting as if it were God who is teaching them. That is not God's way of teaching, but the deception of one's own heart. Each one guided by his own heart.
PS: We JWs have the help and direction of God-anointed people who direct the worldwide preaching work with Christ's guidance from the heavens.
The Bible mentions being "born again" only in the dialogue between Jesus and Nicodemus. Jesus clarifies the necessity of being "born of water" and "born of the spirit," suggesting that those who haven't undergone water baptism cannot receive the holy spirit. Though there were a few rare exceptions in the first century that served a specific purpose, Jesus established the norm in that conversation: sometime after water baptism, some people whom God chooses to be part of the bride of Christ, receive the holy spirit, enabling a unique filial relationship with the Creator and a brotherhood with Jesus.
In the present day, only individuals baptized in water by a genuine representative of God (Matt. 28:19,20), and who have received the holy spirit to enter into that special covenant as a co-heir with Jesus, can genuinely claim to be "born again."
Considering the misconduct of many religious individuals and their leaders, it becomes clear that they lack the holy spirit's influence. Their assertions of being "born again" appear to be mere fabrications or a false facade to appear as something they are not.
In the present day, only individuals baptized in water by a genuine representative of God (Matt. 28:19,20), and who have received the holy spirit to enter into that special covenant as a co-heir with Jesus, can genuinely claim to be "born again."
Considering the misconduct of many religious individuals and their leaders, it becomes clear that they lack the holy spirit's influence. Their assertions of being "born again" appear to be mere fabrications or a false facade to appear as something they are not.
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Believers need to understand that being "born again" is not about feeling a certain way emotionally. This issue has much to do with a selection made by Jesus' Father of people He desires to accompany His Son and be part of His symbolic body in heaven.
Not all Christians are part of that body selected by the Father, as John speaks of the bridegroom and the friend of the bridegroom, but the bride is something entirely different. A Christian could be part of the symbolic bride of Christ, or simply be a friend of the bridegroom, like John the Baptist.
John 3:27 John answered, “No one can receive anything except what has been given from heaven. 28 You yourselves are my witnesses that I said, ‘I am not the Messiah, but I have been sent ahead of him.’ 29 He who has the bride is the bridegroom. The friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly at the bridegroom’s voice. For this reason my joy has been fulfilled. 30 He must increase, but I must decrease.”
Not all Christians are part of that body selected by the Father, as John speaks of the bridegroom and the friend of the bridegroom, but the bride is something entirely different. A Christian could be part of the symbolic bride of Christ, or simply be a friend of the bridegroom, like John the Baptist.
John 3:27 John answered, “No one can receive anything except what has been given from heaven. 28 You yourselves are my witnesses that I said, ‘I am not the Messiah, but I have been sent ahead of him.’ 29 He who has the bride is the bridegroom. The friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly at the bridegroom’s voice. For this reason my joy has been fulfilled. 30 He must increase, but I must decrease.”
That is correct, since it's what the Scriptures say.
Now, do you know who is that God who adopt humans to be His children? Many people don't know who the Father is and still, they say they are "born again".
A person cannot say that he is adopted by someone if he does not even know who that someone is.
This is apparently the question of someone who's not born again and carnally on the surface studied the Holy Bible.
To my experience of witnessing them, they tend to merely 'quote' scriptures out of context and 'stand on it' firmly, possible till the end.
They use it endlessly to 'refute' true born again Christians of their believe and faith in the 'context' of the scripture and witnessing.
They tend to 'shut' their hearing when a true born again Christian by context of the scripture 'witness' to them the 'full picture' of things.
This is where the 'two opposite' Kingdom of Light from above and the kingdom of darkness from below, 'collides'.
One, probably such a person able to 'fathom' and 'perceive', but 'harden' one's 'heart', make excuses that's not the case, and there's another 'interpretation' to it, 'errors' in translation and etc.
Probably to such person, one is 'unrepentful' and would want to continue in the life of 'darkness', and seek a 'gospel' that should excuse them and welcomed to eternal life anyway
And two, probably such a person unable to 'fathom' and 'perceive', they 'struggle' and become 'hostile' since 'blind' and 'deaf' to the things above.
Until and only when GOD 'intervenes', he or she able to be 'truly born again' in the 'spirit', and furthermore 'see' and 'hear', 'fathom' and 'perceive' spiritual teachings from above.
Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ
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If one's going to learn these 'writings' in a 'carnal' way of 'perspective', and 'out of context' determination character standing,
One will apparently end up on 'cross roads', and tend to question about it 'relentlessly', due to the fact one's ignorance to the 'context'.
We're able to 'feed' but we're unable to force the one to eat, if to that one such a food taste not like 'honey'.
Biblically, the only true GOD is 'invisible', and who's 'voice' no man is able to hear and understand, but they'll just drop dead in 'fear' and 'trembling'.
Therefore in the 'Old', HE had to use 'Moses', but yet have not reveal HIS Son, but the Son who in the 'spirit' and the 'form' of man visited Moses for the 'task', as He did to Abraham.
Only in the 'New', GOD decided to present HIS Son 'fully' and use Him in the 'task' to 'salvage' prisoners of 'sin' and 'death', and 'grant' them 'eternal life'.
Therefore also further 'discipling' them in 'context' about the Kingdom of GOD, as Himself 'God', 'King', 'Prophet' 'Judge', 'Father', 'Brother' and 'Friend' in 'person' and 'representation'.
Since in 'person' He is 'also' the 'full visible exact mirrored image' of the 'invisible GOD' in 'Heaven' and who art in 'secret', have come down to 'earth' in these last days.
The Son plays a wider role in regards 'creation', than the 'FATHER' who's above 'all', since the Son 'created' them and 'gave' them life 'in person'.
It 'pleased' the FATHER the Son 'do' so on His 'own', while the FATHER 'by', 'through' and 'for' the Son 'did' all these 'things'.
Therefore Biblically this is the 'context' and 'sound doctrine' from above of such, now who are we to 'question'?
Ones on 'earth', being a mere 'speck' of dust and 'clay' or even made a 'pot' by the 'Potter'?
Isn't it like a 'dog' who 'bites' back to what is given as 'good', or a 'swine' who 'trample' on one's cast 'precious pearls'?
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Heb. 2:
10 For it was fitting for the one for whose sake all things are and through whom all things are, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the Chief Agent of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11 For both he who is sanctifying and those who are being sanctified all [stem] from one, and for this cause he is not ashamed to call them “brothers,” 12 as he says:
“I will declare your name to my brothers;
in the middle of [the] congregation I will praise you with song.” (Psal. 22:22)
13 And again:
“I will have my trust in him.” (Is. 8:17)
And again:
“Look! I and the young children, whom Jehovah gave me” (Is. 8:18a).
Who is bringing many sons to glory?
10 For it was fitting for the one for whose sake all things are and through whom all things are, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the Chief Agent of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11 For both he who is sanctifying and those who are being sanctified all [stem] from one, and for this cause he is not ashamed to call them “brothers,” 12 as he says:
“I will declare your name to my brothers;
in the middle of [the] congregation I will praise you with song.” (Psal. 22:22)
13 And again:
“I will have my trust in him.” (Is. 8:17)
And again:
“Look! I and the young children, whom Jehovah gave me” (Is. 8:18a).
Who is bringing many sons to glory?
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