How can we be perfect and complete? Is it by Law, or by faith?

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MatthewG

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What I hear you as saying here is, what do you have that God hasn’t given you, and if this is so, and you have been freed and they haven’t, stay humble, don’t be found beating the slaves when He returns and don’t judge anything before it’s time but fear God, who judges harder and expects more from those who He gives more to.

Men tend to lord over and create these hierarchies in their minds and hearts, and not yet seeing some things that still remain hidden to them, they go off the rails in it since there still remains so much they cannot yet properly divide.

If you think you know anything, you have not yet known as you ought to.
1 Cor 8:2

It is why the importance of following and walking in the Spirit is needed.

Life by the Spirit - Galatians 5​

13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh[a]; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”[b] 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever[c] you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.
 

MatthewG

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Just for clarification, I do not believe I am better than anyone here just because of my view and my approach in how that it is I decide to share scripture, @Grailhunter, if you have an idea for a thread you wanna write about please feel free to make your own thread about it. Everyone has a different approach in how they may approach the scripture and text and through reasoning. I am not here to s**** on them, and tear them down, and punch them in the face. It is simply to share a different consideration, and they are more than welcome to stay where they are at if they choose to. God loves them, and thus by faith and the spirit we are to love them as well, even after sharing and someone disagrees!

Best regards,
Matthew
 

stunnedbygrace

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People find Jesus in their own time, and he will lead them if they make the choice to seek for him, even do studying, they will be set free in truth cause truth will set them free.

Yes, Only God knows when someone is ready for love.
 
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MatthewG

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When it comes to Judgment, Stunned, God is right all the time. Gods judgments are just when I by my own merit do something that is not good and the result is chasement in which God desires to talk to us and lead us to still waters and to lay in green pastures to have peace of mind in Christ again. Life is not perfect if it was we wouldn’t need God.

There is a scripture I look to in which God looks at the heart. Our heart can produce bad fruit or good fruit, depending on the way a person goes. Sometimes we get pissed off at someone and lash out. That is not being good to our neighbor. Thank God we can go and confess and we also have the Holy Spirit to notify in which God is calling us to come to him.

But the LORD said to Samuel, “Don’t judge by his appearance or height, for I have rejected him. The LORD doesn’t see things the way you see them. People judge by outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart.” 1 Samuel 16:7

How do you look at judgment?
 
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Grailhunter

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Just for clarification, I do not believe I am better than anyone here just because of my view and my approach in how that it is I decide to share scripture, @Grailhunter, if you have an idea for a thread you wanna write about please feel free to make your own thread about it. Everyone has a different approach in how they may approach the scripture and text and through reasoning. I am not here to s**** on them, and tear them down, and punch them in the face. It is simply to share a different consideration, and they are more than welcome to stay where they are at if they choose to. God loves them, and thus by faith and the spirit we are to love them as well, even after sharing and someone disagrees!

Best regards,
Matthew

Don't take it personal.....I am confident that you are a great guy.
And when I am posting I am not just posting to you or the thread....but to all that read these threads.
You happened on a topic that can hurt people's faith because this topic and the topics in post 17 can be confusing because people jump in and give explanations that go in all directions and even do not make sense. It can confuse people, it can discourage people from Christianity. Look at the responses you have gotten, some are rant of words that do not mean anything.

Be good and do good. Yeshua expects us to do that as best as we can.....
There is an aspect of perfection but that is not well defined in the scriptures. So in a "sola scriptura" forum it cannot be proven. LOL Even the definition of sola scriptura differs from perspectives.

The question of wealth and Christ's attitude toward it can be confusing. Same thing goes for self defense.
 
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MatthewG

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Don't take it personal.....I am confident that you are a great guy.

It’s just you keep posting here specifically. Thus I respond if decided. Im not a great guy at all and nothing good dwells in my flesh.


And when I am posting I am not just posting to you or the thread....but to all that read these threads.

Could you place an “To all” when posting, it would make a great difference.

You happened on a topic that can hurt people's faith because this topic and the topics in post 17 can be confusing because people jump in and give explanations that go in all directions and even do not make sense.

Post 18 has my thoughts on what those scripture could mean. You said or assume they are unanswerable. Why is that?

How does it hurt people’s faith? Aren’t people suppose to work out their own salvation with fear and trembling? Has my responses hurt your own personal faith?

I’m a dangerous person who shouldn’t be listened to and it’s possible my views can hurt a persons own personal faith in what they understand.

But my trust and faith continuously rely on God, and to do his will, even speak what I know as truth despite if people say it’s false or wrong, in turn I’ll listen and allow them to believe what they will because God is the judge and individuals allow him to work in their minds and hearts…

I’m not so sure what people hope is in, it’s personal and subjective.
It can confuse people, it can discourage people from Christianity.

They shouldn’t listen to me but go and read the Bible and study it and search and seek God for truth.
Look at the responses you have gotten, some are rant of words that do not mean anything.

Doesn’t bother me, for the most part.

Be good and do good. Yeshua expects us to do that as best as we can.....

Then do the best you’re able to. Be encouraging and uplifting towards others, by the spirit. That is the only choices the flesh or the spirit.
There is an aspect of perfection but that is not well defined in the scriptures.

This topic was asking the question “how can we be complete is it being perfect in the flesh or being perfected in Christ”

Two people here said neither. That wasn’t a true answer so this I shared scripture to clear up with our opinions may make it out to be.

So in a "sola scriptura" forum it cannot be proven. LOL Even the definition of sola scriptura differs from perspectives.

I don’t care about sola scripture. I share the scripture for people to consider because faith comes by hearing the word of God and if that is the case we should use the Bible to strengthen our faith not use to fight, bicker and bit** at each other.

The question of wealth and Christ's attitude toward it can be confusing. Same thing goes for self defense.

I guess but I don’t even know why you decided to post other than oppose anything I could have stated in the first post which did you even take time to read it?

Most people don’t like long post and that is totally understandable.
 

MatthewG

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Also if you wanna make a thread about your questions pertaining to post 17 please go make a thread and see what other people on the forum may have to say about those things, as I’ve cleared it up for myself upon the response in 18.

God bless brother in Christ, grailhunter.
 

stunnedbygrace

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How do you look at judgment?
It would be hard to explain how I look at judgement, just as it would be hard to explain how I look at sin, or what prayer is. He has changed my mind and heart a lot on these things.

He takes me bit by bit, line upon line. some part will be very incomplete but slowly getting clearer and doesn’t really crescendo into his masterpiece until I see it everywhere, not only just in scripture. Until I actually live it and literally see it all around me. I mostly, until that happens, read the arguments and see oh, that man has a piece of it and is insisting the other piece of it doesn’t exist. And that man has the piece of it that other man can’t see and is insisting the first man’s piece doesn’t exist. I’m not sure why we are like that so often…I think it has something to do with the blind man Jesus healed in two stages. I think about it and I say, it would have been a very different outcome if that man had become so excited that he could see shapes and movement, which he had never seen in all his life, and run off shrieking, I can see, I can see! He may have been even convinced he could now lead someone else and got them both run over by a camel. Or a chariot. Had he done that instead of standing there with Jesus, he wouldn’t have got clearer sight. He wouldn’t have thought or wondered to say, well I think I see trees because they’re moving like the wind is moving them…no wait, trees don’t move THAT much, only their leaves do…I think it must be men walking around…!
But my point is, had he not stayed with Jesus, he wouldn’t have got clearer sight.

I think there’s a lot of men who are convinced they see very perfectly who don’t barely see at all. They only see a little bit. And from the little they CAN see, they build very misshapen things.
 

Zao is life

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To be perfect is to be complete - or to have integrity.



In this instance Jesus is teaching his audience which was his disciples on the mountain here, He said near the end here, closing - Be perfect, therefore as your heavenly Father is perfect. As mentioned earlier, that being perfect is to be complete or to have integrity; There are only two options to choose from.

Is Jesus telling his disciples to be perfect in the flesh? Or to be perfect and complete in faith in Him?




Here, with the disciples Jesus with a person who came up to Him. From verse 16 the man probably of Jewish decent due to what he is enquiring, saying Teacher what good thing must I do to get eternal life? What a direct and straight forward question here in which this person was to the Messiah who was the very Word of God sent to set the captives free. In verse 17 Jesus responds, which I believe He (being the very Word of God) is referring towards his flesh with this man here saying Why do you ask me about is good? Which I believe is pointing about how with-in the flesh there is nothing good about it (though inside which people had yet to know what the Spirit of God, and the very Soul of the Word of God made flesh. You may differ.

Jesus goes on to state that "There is only One who is good. (meaning God - Jesus's Father). IF you want to enter life keep the commandments." Why is Jesus saying this, if he was someone who fulfills the law and the prophets? Because Jesus is pointing the man back to the commandments which by his birthright he had done and knew about having probably gone to the synagogues growing up from childhood.

Which the Man asked Jesus which ones are you talking about that I should keep? Jesus replies with you shall not murder, commit adulty, steal, not give false testimony, honor your mother and father, and love your neighbor as yourself.

The man states back to Jesus, All of these I have kept. What is it do I still lack that I may gain eternal life? So here the man replies, saying he has kept most of the commands that Jesus had just mentioned to him, in verse 18-19, looking at verse 20.

Here Jesus mentions being perfect again, to be complete, have integrity - “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” Verse 21.

Jesus again here refers again to the material means - which this means is for a spiritual means too - responds saying that if he desires to be perfect, go sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Thinking about this, to let go of our flesh in trying to feed it by possessions it is better to let go, and to give those are in need so that the man will have treasure in heaven.

Just as Jesus said to his Disciples in Matthew 5, how is it we can be perfect? He stated that it was to be perfect as their Father in heaven is perfect. Here to be perfect, the man needed to materially sell everything he had because he was wealthy. Jesus ends it by saying once he has done that, he will have treasure in heaven and should come to follow Him.



After the man had left, - in an instance you can see a mark here between old covenant and new covenant Jesus was brining forth. As the man - left onward (not sure what he did) but went back to his material ways that he first performed by the flesh, of perfecting in obeying the law to be made right with God because Jesus doesn't say here right out they he was right with God just yet, until the follow Him part in which He would be made seen right with God by faith. That is where being complete in Him is found and it is finished comes into play that brings forth new life to a believer in which they begin to follow after Jesus.

So why is it hard for a rich to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven? Because they do not see their flaws before a truly perfect and holy God. It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter into the kingdom of God. The question here becomes what does it mean to be rich? That could be rich in pride, status, placing oneself above others, not just wealth itself. Because it is okay for Christians to make money, and save it and use it as they will but not to be come prideful above others because of it. That is why it is so hard for a rich person to enter into the kingdom of Heaven.

After explaining this to them, the disciples Who then can be saved?

Jesus responded and looked at them, with this is impossible (through material means), but with God (through spiritual means) with Him all things are possible.

So what does it mean to be perfect is it by the flesh or by and through faith in Christ and resting in his works, and having relationship with the Father, to walk in integrity to be open and honest with God with our failures and to believe on the one whom God had sent.
To be perfect before God is through faith in the One who is perfect, being found in Him so that God does not see our lack of perfection, but only Christ's perfection, so it's by the latter of what you say:

by and through faith in Christ and resting in his works, and having relationship with the Father, to walk in integrity to be open and honest with God with our failures and to believe on the one whom God had sent.

Every time I fail in thought, word or deed to perfectly love God and perfectly love my neighbor and my brother, the law condemns me if I'm using my own obedience and (lack of) perfection as the mark I need to strive for in order to be considered righteous by God, or in order to please God. Jesus said we need to abide in Him, the Vine producing the fruit, in order to produce the fruit of the Spirit that fulfills the law (the law is the shadow of the fruit of the Spirit of Christ).
 
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stunnedbygrace

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It would be hard to explain how I look at judgement, just as it would be hard to explain how I look at sin, or what prayer is. He has changed my mind and heart a lot on these things.

He takes me bit by bit, line upon line. some part will be very incomplete but slowly getting clearer and doesn’t really crescendo into his masterpiece until I see it everywhere, not only just in scripture. Until I actually live it and literally see it all around me. I mostly, until that happens, read the arguments and see oh, that man has a piece of it and is insisting the other piece of it doesn’t exist. And that man has the piece of it that other man can’t see and is insisting the first man’s piece doesn’t exist. I’m not sure why we are like that so often…I think it has something to do with the blind man Jesus healed in two stages. I think about it and I say, it would have been a very different outcome if that man had become so excited that he could see shapes and movement, which he had never seen in all his life, and run off shrieking, I can see, I can see! He may have been even convinced he could now lead someone else and got them both run over by a camel. Or a chariot. Had he done that instead of standing there with Jesus, he wouldn’t have got clearer sight. He wouldn’t have thought or wondered to say, well I think I see trees because they’re moving like the wind is moving them…no wait, trees don’t move THAT much, only their leaves do…I think it must be men walking around…!
But my point is, had he not stayed with Jesus, he wouldn’t have got clearer sight.

I think there’s a lot of men who are convinced they see very perfectly who don’t barely see at all. They only see a little bit. And from the little they CAN see, they build very misshapen things.
It’s like…take even your very favorite teacher. You might agree what he says is completely right, and a few years later you see that he has has some things right but a piece or two he hasn’t fit in, which if he did fit in, it would require leaving some of his parts out.

Something like that happened to me recently, where I just suddenly saw a verse that made me have to drastically alter my endtimes view. I sat stunned, the wheels churning, and then said, okay, I see what must be done here. You would think it would have been painful to give up what I’d thought for sixteen years but it wasn’t. I was really happy He let me see it. And it all fit rather seamlessly suddenly instead of some pieces always looking slightly out of place. It’s still not all there but I added a piece!
 
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Grailhunter

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It’s just you keep posting here specifically. Thus I respond if decided. Im not a great guy at all and nothing good dwells in my flesh.




Could you place an “To all” when posting, it would make a great difference.



Post 18 has my thoughts on what those scripture could mean. You said or assume they are unanswerable. Why is that?

How does it hurt people’s faith? Aren’t people suppose to work out their own salvation with fear and trembling? Has my responses hurt your own personal faith?

I’m a dangerous person who shouldn’t be listened to and it’s possible my views can hurt a persons own personal faith in what they understand.

But my trust and faith continuously rely on God, and to do his will, even speak what I know as truth despite if people say it’s false or wrong, in turn I’ll listen and allow them to believe what they will because God is the judge and individuals allow him to work in their minds and hearts…

I’m not so sure what people hope is in, it’s personal and subjective.


They shouldn’t listen to me but go and read the Bible and study it and search and seek God for truth.


Doesn’t bother me, for the most part.



Then do the best you’re able to. Be encouraging and uplifting towards others, by the spirit. That is the only choices the flesh or the spirit.


This topic was asking the question “how can we be complete is it being perfect in the flesh or being perfected in Christ”

Two people here said neither. That wasn’t a true answer so this I shared scripture to clear up with our opinions may make it out to be.



I don’t care about sola scripture. I share the scripture for people to consider because faith comes by hearing the word of God and if that is the case we should use the Bible to strengthen our faith not use to fight, bicker and bit** at each other.



I guess but I don’t even know why you decided to post other than oppose anything I could have stated in the first post which did you even take time to read it?

Most people don’t like long post and that is totally understandable.

Satan schemes.....confusion is his game. I don't want people confused about the Word of God.
 
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robert derrick

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To be perfect is to be complete - or to have integrity.

True. Scripture calls it virtue:

Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue.

Being perfected in mind and and immortal in body, is only in the resurrection of the just.

Tempting thoughts are not sinning, unless they are allowed to become lust to act upon. Jesus had every tempting thought the devil could throw at any man on earth, and never once allowed Himself to be enticed by it to sin and spiritually die.

The sons of God are given His same divine power to do the same as He, and walk as He walked on earth.

Trying to make living virtuously as Christ, into resurrection perfectionism, is a sideshow for the unrighteous.

Is Jesus telling his disciples to be perfect in the flesh? Or to be perfect and complete in faith in Him?

Both. There cannot be one without the other:

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Faith cleanses the heart and spirit.

For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh.

The law cleanses the deeds of the body.

How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Faith in the blood of Jesus, to do the law of Christ blamelessly does both:

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Them without faith and only works of the law, establish their own righteousness only.

Them without law perish the same as them transgressing the law of Christ.

For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law.

Without faith, the spirit remains unclean, and without law, the flesh remains corrupt.

The filthiness of the spirit is lusting for sin, and the filthiness of the flesh is doing unrighteousness.
 
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MatthewG

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True. Scripture calls it virtue:

Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue.

2 Peter 1:1-3​

New American Standard Bible​

Growth in Christian Virtue​

1 [a]Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who have received a faith of the same [b]kind as ours, [c]by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ: 2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus [d]our Lord, 3 for His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us [e]by His own glory and [f]excellence.
Being perfected in mind and and immortal in body, is only in the resurrection of the just.

What does this phrase mean to you? Perfected in the mind and immortal in body?

My understanding is to be perfected and complete is to put on Christ. Romans 13:14.

Tempting thoughts are not sinning, unless they are allowed to become lust to act upon. Jesus had every tempting thought the devil could throw at any man on earth, and never once allowed Himself to be enticed by it to sin and spiritually die.
James 1:
13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed.15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

16 Don’t be deceived, my dear brothers and sisters. 17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. 18 He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.


1 Thessalonians 5:

Final Instructions​

12 Now we ask you, brothers and sisters, to acknowledge those who work hard among you, who care for you in the Lord and who admonish you.13 Hold them in the highest regard in love because of their work. Live in peace with each other. 14 And we urge you, brothers and sisters, warn those who are idle and disruptive, encourage the disheartened, help the weak, be patient with everyone. 15 Make sure that nobody pays back wrong for wrong,but always strive to do what is good for each other and for everyone else.

16 Rejoice always, 17 pray continually, 18 give thanks in all circumstances; for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus.

19 Do not quench the Spirit. 20 Do not treat prophecies with contempt 21 but test them all; hold on to what is good, 22 reject every kind of evil.

23 May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 The one who calls you is faithful, and he will do it.

25 Brothers and sisters, pray for us. 26 Greet all God’s people with a holy kiss. 27 I charge you before the Lord to have this letter read to all the brothers and sisters.

28 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.


The sons of God are given His same divine power to do the same as He, and walk as He walked on earth.

Trying to make living virtuously as Christ, into resurrection perfectionism, is a sideshow for the unrighteous.

2 Peter 1:5-15​

New International Version​

5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.
10 Therefore, my brothers and sisters,[a] make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Prophecy of Scripture​

12 So I will always remind you of these things, even though you know them and are firmly established in the truth you now have. 13 I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of this body, 14 because I know that I will soon put it aside, as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me. 15 And I will make every effort to see that after my departure you will always be able to remember these things.
Both. There cannot be one without the other:

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.


Faith cleanses the heart and spirit.

For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh.

The law cleanses the deeds of the body.

How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Faith in the blood of Jesus, to do the law of Christ blamelessly does both:

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Them without faith and only works of the law, establish their own righteousness only.

Them without law perish the same as them transgressing the law of Christ.

For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law.

Without faith, the spirit remains unclean, and without law, the flesh remains corrupt.

The filthiness of the spirit is lusting for sin, and the filthiness of the flesh is doing unrighteousness.
Thank you for sharing what you believe here in this section. Im not opposed to people undergoing sanctification in this life by the Spirit, but they won't be sinless (though they may sin - less) for all fall short of the glory of God and need Jesus - who has taken their sins away already. The choice to walk with him is up to them, and they are made complete with Him, by faith initially in which a crop can be produced which is always having love for God and others.
 

MatthewG

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To be perfect before God is through faith in the One who is perfect, being found in Him so that God does not see our lack of perfection, but only Christ's perfection, so it's by the latter of what you say:

by and through faith in Christ and resting in his works, and having relationship with the Father, to walk in integrity to be open and honest with God with our failures and to believe on the one whom God had sent.

Every time I fail in thought, word or deed to perfectly love God and perfectly love my neighbor and my brother, the law condemns me if I'm using my own obedience and (lack of) perfection as the mark I need to strive for in order to be considered righteous by God, or in order to please God. Jesus said we need to abide in Him, the Vine producing the fruit, in order to produce the fruit of the Spirit that fulfills the law (the law is the shadow of the fruit of the Spirit of Christ).

The Holy Spirit of God helps us in notifying in which we are doing wrong, and a lot of that has to due with not only not placing God first in ones life, but also not being good to our neighbor.

Where a person hurts them, through lies, or non-care, meanness and that is such a daunting thing for individuals to keep up doing in this life sometimes, I know that I fail all the time, but Christ helps in the process to continue to by moved by the spirit if my decision is to allow God to help me in Christ. It's all of our choice.

Thank you for sharing FOTG.
 

MatthewG

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It would be hard to explain how I look at judgement, just as it would be hard to explain how I look at sin, or what prayer is. He has changed my mind and heart a lot on these things.

He takes me bit by bit, line upon line. some part will be very incomplete but slowly getting clearer and doesn’t really crescendo into his masterpiece until I see it everywhere, not only just in scripture. Until I actually live it and literally see it all around me. I mostly, until that happens, read the arguments and see oh, that man has a piece of it and is insisting the other piece of it doesn’t exist. And that man has the piece of it that other man can’t see and is insisting the first man’s piece doesn’t exist. I’m not sure why we are like that so often…I think it has something to do with the blind man Jesus healed in two stages. I think about it and I say, it would have been a very different outcome if that man had become so excited that he could see shapes and movement, which he had never seen in all his life, and run off shrieking, I can see, I can see! He may have been even convinced he could now lead someone else and got them both run over by a camel. Or a chariot. Had he done that instead of standing there with Jesus, he wouldn’t have got clearer sight. He wouldn’t have thought or wondered to say, well I think I see trees because they’re moving like the wind is moving them…no wait, trees don’t move THAT much, only their leaves do…I think it must be men walking around…!
But my point is, had he not stayed with Jesus, he wouldn’t have got clearer sight.

I think there’s a lot of men who are convinced they see very perfectly who don’t barely see at all. They only see a little bit. And from the little they CAN see, they build very misshapen things.

Thank you for sharing your insights on this. Sticking, and standing with the Lord is not a popular thing to do. The blind man is a great example of a healing that is meant as a picture for us today, that without light, we are blind. Jesus is the light of all mankind by the life he lived he is the example to follow.

John 1:4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.
 

Robert Gwin

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Perfect - doesn't have anything to do with being sinless. It deals with being complete, mature, or perhaps walking with integrity. No one by their flesh is sinless, unless they are Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ works in and through us by the spirit to produce good fruits which is always having love for God and having love for others. You suggest to to be complete is by law. When Jesus Christ fulfilled the law and prophet.



From my understanding it is by faith that a person really can be set free in Christ, they are also made complete in him being made right with God, according to the scriptures. Being perfected - complete in Christ is to follow him, and seeing him as the perfecter of our faith.



Your understanding is completely different than mine but that is alright, thank you for sharing.

I cant be justified by doing the law, but people are justified by the bloodshed of Christ and believing on Him who raised Jesus from the dead, its all because of him, and nothing we may do.
Make no mistake Matt, God has always had laws. God's people are still regulated by laws, we call it the law of the Christ. Gal 6:2. In the new system, new scrolls will be opened, we know that laws will be included, but of course we will have to wait to see what our instructions are. I was using the Biblical definition of perfect Matt, only 3 humans have ever been perfect, and only one remained perfect. Why? Because he never sinned.
 
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MatthewG

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Huh… okay Robert thank you for sharing your perspective friend. God looks at our hearts and when we die will be utterly naked and seen completely before him.

May Christ be found in the hearts of people, to love God and to love others as hard as it is in this life.
 
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