How can we be perfect and complete? Is it by Law, or by faith?

[Grailhunter]

No one said that anyone is perfect in their flesh Grailhunter, I believe you have been mistaken upon reading the original post, therefore to continue to keep saying the same thing over is not needed. People are perfect by the spirit which is a life-long process but never completed until death. A life long time of putting God first and loving others, mistakes are going to be made along the way but Jesus like when he saved Peter from the waters when he started to drown is always there to pick us back up, or guide back to the right path when we set our eyes on him. @Grailhunter.

I tend to focus on what the actual scripture says....Christ did not specify perfect in the flesh or perfect in the spirit. Spirit or flesh we are not going to get close to being as perfect as God the Father. The Bible has a lot of good clear information to offer, but trying to suggest that you or anyone else has the answers for the scriptures in post 17 is just false and can be confusing to people, it can make some people question their own faith because you are suggesting there are answers.

 

[MatthewG]

I tend to focus on what the actual scripture says....Christ did not specify perfect in the flesh or perfect in the spirit. Spirit or flesh we are not going to get close to being as perfect as God the Father. The Bible has a lot of good clear information to offer, but trying to suggest that you or anyone else has the answers for the scriptures in post 17 is just false and can be confusing to people, it can make some people question their own faith because you are suggesting there are answers.

Consideration is different than mandating.

People are free to believe what they want, I don’t care hold old a person is either or how long they been in faith or been a Christian.

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God, so I’m not worried about it and the reason I been stating it going along with you.

Maybe others are confused? Because they are confused by it? I have to stay true to what I believe; in and through Christ by the spirit and what I can learn from the Bible as a whole.

I’m fallible and always can be seen as wrong but that doesn’t mean I have to subscribe to other people say just cause they go along with what they believe or deem is needed.

 

[MatthewG]

I have to stay true to what I believe even if it deems me someone who is not to be associated with. Such as my radical views on Christ return and the like.

 

[MatthewG]

Anyone who views this, just go and check the first post and read it. If you are desirous to be a critic please make your points addressing the Original post.

Thank you all, and anyone who desires to answer the question please feel free, the answer is we are complete and made right with God in Christ by faith in Him... which leads to loving God and loving others when we worship the Father in spirit and in truth.

You be your own judge of what is wrong or right, and may the Holy Spirit guide you.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

To be perfect is to be complete - or to have integrity.



In this instance Jesus is teaching his audience which was his disciples on the mountain here, He said near the end here, closing - Be perfect, therefore as your heavenly Father is perfect. As mentioned earlier, that being perfect is to be complete or to have integrity; There are only two options to choose from.

Is Jesus telling his disciples to be perfect in the flesh? Or to be perfect and complete in faith in Him?




Here, with the disciples Jesus with a person who came up to Him. From verse 16 the man probably of Jewish decent due to what he is enquiring, saying Teacher what good thing must I do to get eternal life? What a direct and straight forward question here in which this person was to the Messiah who was the very Word of God sent to set the captives free. In verse 17 Jesus responds, which I believe He (being the very Word of God) is referring towards his flesh with this man here saying Why do you ask me about is good? Which I believe is pointing about how with-in the flesh there is nothing good about it (though inside which people had yet to know what the Spirit of God, and the very Soul of the Word of God made flesh. You may differ.

Jesus goes on to state that "There is only One who is good. (meaning God - Jesus's Father). IF you want to enter life keep the commandments." Why is Jesus saying this, if he was someone who fulfills the law and the prophets? Because Jesus is pointing the man back to the commandments which by his birthright he had done and knew about having probably gone to the synagogues growing up from childhood.

Which the Man asked Jesus which ones are you talking about that I should keep? Jesus replies with you shall not murder, commit adulty, steal, not give false testimony, honor your mother and father, and love your neighbor as yourself.

The man states back to Jesus, All of these I have kept. What is it do I still lack that I may gain eternal life? So here the man replies, saying he has kept most of the commands that Jesus had just mentioned to him, in verse 18-19, looking at verse 20.

Here Jesus mentions being perfect again, to be complete, have integrity - “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” Verse 21.

Jesus again here refers again to the material means - which this means is for a spiritual means too - responds saying that if he desires to be perfect, go sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Thinking about this, to let go of our flesh in trying to feed it by possessions it is better to let go, and to give those are in need so that the man will have treasure in heaven.

Just as Jesus said to his Disciples in Matthew 5, how is it we can be perfect? He stated that it was to be perfect as their Father in heaven is perfect. Here to be perfect, the man needed to materially sell everything he had because he was wealthy. Jesus ends it by saying once he has done that, he will have treasure in heaven and should come to follow Him.

​

After the man had left, - in an instance you can see a mark here between old covenant and new covenant Jesus was brining forth. As the man - left onward (not sure what he did) but went back to his material ways that he first performed by the flesh, of perfecting in obeying the law to be made right with God because Jesus doesn't say here right out they he was right with God just yet, until the follow Him part in which He would be made seen right with God by faith. That is where being complete in Him is found and it is finished comes into play that brings forth new life to a believer in which they begin to follow after Jesus.

So why is it hard for a rich to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven? Because they do not see their flaws before a truly perfect and holy God. It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter into the kingdom of God. The question here becomes what does it mean to be rich? That could be rich in pride, status, placing oneself above others, not just wealth itself. Because it is okay for Christians to make money, and save it and use it as they will but not to be come prideful above others because of it. That is why it is so hard for a rich person to enter into the kingdom of Heaven.

After explaining this to them, the disciples Who then can be saved?

Jesus responded and looked at them, with this is impossible (through material means), but with God (through spiritual means) with Him all things are possible.

So what does it mean to be perfect is it by the flesh or by and through faith in Christ and resting in his works, and having relationship with the Father, to walk in integrity to be open and honest with God with our failures and to believe on the one whom God had sent.

Jesus was answering the question, “what must I do to get eternal life?” Jesus answered Him from the one tablet of commandments, the one that deals with treating others well, which is righteousness - to do no harm to your neighbor. This shows that the righteous are accepted of God. They will have eternal life. A place will be made for them. It’s not popular though. But that’s because a distinction between righteousness and holiness have become very confused.

When the man asked, what do I still lack? Jesus then replied from the other tablet, which deals with holiness. If you want to be perfect, sell all you have and follow Me.

So when we read all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags, we know something seems a little off in our understanding if we see a man who is a really good guy, lives a quiet life, treats others and respects others at least as well as he treats and respects himself and then think, so…I’m supposed to belief that is filthiness…? Because I really DONT think that. He’s quite kind and humble yet I’m being told to think he’s absolutely filthy? I can’t.

Modern christianity has erred greatly and the reason they’ve erred is because they do not understand that God makes a place for righteous men who follow the law written in their hearts. They don’t understand that the filthy rags verse is not meant to take away righteousness but is instead speaking of righteousness COMPARED to holiness.

This great error will become apparent someday when one man will say, huh…? When did I ever see You and show You kindness? The man doesn’t appear to even know who Jesus is.
And another man will say, huh..? When did I ever see You and NOT show You kindness? He appears to think He does know Jesus.

A verse in Ezekiel speaks of this matter: Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:

And a verse in Revelation mentions 4 different men in the end:
unjust
filthy
righteous
holy
I think one group is destroyed. Another group goes to outer darkness. The righteous will live among the nations. The holy will rule over the righteous.


Holiness builds on righteousness. It does not cancel righteousness.
And the scriptures are for training in righteousness.
You don’t do away with what Jesus’ answer was to the man who asked, what must I do to get eternal life? If you do, you try to take away the righteousness of the righteous and in the process condemn yourself.

 

[MatthewG]

Jesus was answering the question, “what must I do to get eternal life?” Jesus answered Him from the one tablet of commandments, the one that deals with treating others well, which is righteousness - to do no harm to your neighbor. This shows that the righteous are accepted of God. They have eternal life. A place will be made for them. It’s not popular though. But that’s because a distinction between righteousness and holiness have become very confused.

When the man asked, what do I still lack? Jesus then replied from the other tablet, which deals with holiness. If you want to be perfect, sell all you have and follow Me.

So when we read all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags, we know something seems a little off in our understanding if we see a man who is a really good guy, lives a quiet life, treats others and respects others at least as well as he treats and respects himself and then think, so…I’m supposed to belief that is filthiness…? Because I really DONT think that. He’s quite kind and humble yet I’m being told to think he’s absolutely filthy? I can’t.

Modern christianity has erred greatly and the reason they’ve erred is because they do not understand that God makes a place for righteous men who follow the law written in their hearts. They don’t understand that the filthy rags verse is not meant to take away righteousness but is instead speaking of righteousness COMPARED to holiness.

This great error will become apparent someday when one man will say, huh…? When did I ever see You and show You kindness? The man doesn’t appear to even know who Jesus is.
And another man will say, huh..? When did I ever see You and NOT show You kindness? He appears to think He does know Jesus.
A verse in Ezekiel speaks of this: Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:

And a verse in Revelation mentions 4 different men in the end:
unjust
filthy
righteous
holy
I think one group is destroyed. Another group goes to outer darkness. The righteous will live among the nations. The holy will rule over the righteous.


Holiness builds on righteousness. It does not cancel righteousness.
And the scriptures are for training in righteousness.
You don’t do away with what Jesus’ answer was to the man who asked, what must I do to get eternal life? If you do, you try to take away the righteousness of the righteous and in the process condemn yourself.

Thank you for taking time to share your insights, Sbg. Some good things here.

@stunnedbygrace something important in dealing with righteousness like you said reminds me of this scripture here.

It’s always Jesus Christ and his righteousness that makes one right with God by faith in Him.


“God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. He is the source of your life in Christ Jesus, whom God made our wisdom, our righteousness and sanctification and redemption; therefore, as it is written, “Let him who boasts, boast of the Lord.””
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭1‬:‭28‬-‭31‬ ‭RSV‬‬

1 Corinthians 1:30 He is the source of your life in Christ Jesus, whom God made our wisdom, our righteousness and sanctification and redemption | Revised Standard Version (RSV) | Download The Bible App Now

He is the source of your life in Christ Jesus, whom God made our wisdom, our righteousness and sanctification and redemption

bible.com

 

[MatthewG]

You also reminded me of one more scripture that deals with the new covenant in what God does with those who seek him out in faith.

““Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant which they broke, though I was their husband, says the Lord. But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭31‬:‭31‬-‭33‬ ‭RSV‬‬

Jeremiah 31:31-33 “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers when I took them by | Revised Standard Version (RSV

“Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers when I took them by

bible.com

How does one become part of Gods people? By faith in Christ being born again, becoming a citizen of heavenly Jerusalem.

“But our commonwealth is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will change our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power which enables him even to subject all things to himself.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭3‬:‭20‬-‭21‬ ‭RSV‬‬

Philippians 3:20-21 But our commonwealth is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will change our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power which enables him even to subject all | Revised Standard Version (R

But our commonwealth is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will change our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power which enables him even to subject all

bible.com

“Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassion, kindness, lowliness, meekness, and patience, forbearing one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive. And above all these put on love, which binds everything together in perfect harmony. And let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in the one body. And be thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teach and admonish one another in all wisdom, and sing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs with thankfulness in your hearts to God. And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3‬:‭12‬-‭17‬ ‭RSV‬‬

Colossians 3:12-17 Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassion, kindness, lowliness, meekness, and patience, forbearing one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; | Revised Standard Version (RS

Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassion, kindness, lowliness, meekness, and patience, forbearing one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other;

bible.com

Thank you very much @stunnedbygrace.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

It’s always Jesus Christ and his righteousness that makes one right with God by faith in Him.

I think some of the doctrines we are taught have garbled a lot of it. Yes, it makes us right with God because of our trust. But men take us in bad directions from there. You are forgiven, you are made right with God. He showed you favor when He opened your eyes and was pleased to show Jesus to you. A lot of unfortunate directions can be gone in from there. One of those bad directions is to say I am saved and have Christ’s very own righteousness And You are not saved and though it may seem you are a more righteous man than me and that you are better at how you treat others than I am, that’s just filthy rags.
So you have condemned a man who treats his neighbor better than you while claiming you are better than him because of some “positional” thing that no other man can see.
Its a really bad direction that men lead you in while they think they can see and can help you or disciple you. And we are told to beware the leaven of men, but we swallow it because it seems it must be right if so many think it is.

You know, I remember after I received the down payment of the Spirit, I became very sad when I went online and began to listen to the doctrines/leaven of men. It was a crushing sadness because I did not understand why God came to me, who was not a good person, while I saw some quite good people around me He did not come to. I’d lived a horrible life, they had not. It did not come into my awareness until a long time after that my sorrow came from what they gave me to swallow. It was the error they taught that made me so bereft. What they taught did not build up my trust, it just made me so, so sad.

 

[Gospel Believer]

Being perfect is as Heavenly Father is perfect. That means living a Christ like life. No sin, and doing the will of the Father.

Having faith isn't perfection by itself.

The " Will of the Father" is to " Believe on the One that He sent".... It's as simple as that....

 

[Gospel Believer]

None of us are any more " Perfect" that we are " Righteous" or " Holy".....
God , however, * SEES* us just as Perfect as Jesus was if we simply put our Trust In Him and Him ALONE to Save us---Simply Believe 1Cor15:1-4 and you will be " clothed" with the Perfection of Christ...it's that " Imputation" thingy that you might of heard about..

 

[dev553344]

The " Will of the Father" is to " Believe on the One that He sent".... It's as simple as that....

The will of the Father for us is to be baptized, take the bread and wine, receive the Holy Spirit and keep the commandments, inlcuding the Royal Law of love God and love others spelled out in the sheep and goats. And that is just a few things from the will of the Father as spelled out in the bible.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Our resurrection will make us completely perfect. Until then, we have moments of perfection when the acts of the Holy Spirit are performed through us. We cooperate with His plan for us acts of love, a message given at the right time, etc.

 

[Robert Gwin]

To be perfect is to be complete - or to have integrity.



In this instance Jesus is teaching his audience which was his disciples on the mountain here, He said near the end here, closing - Be perfect, therefore as your heavenly Father is perfect. As mentioned earlier, that being perfect is to be complete or to have integrity; There are only two options to choose from.

Is Jesus telling his disciples to be perfect in the flesh? Or to be perfect and complete in faith in Him?




Here, with the disciples Jesus with a person who came up to Him. From verse 16 the man probably of Jewish decent due to what he is enquiring, saying Teacher what good thing must I do to get eternal life? What a direct and straight forward question here in which this person was to the Messiah who was the very Word of God sent to set the captives free. In verse 17 Jesus responds, which I believe He (being the very Word of God) is referring towards his flesh with this man here saying Why do you ask me about is good? Which I believe is pointing about how with-in the flesh there is nothing good about it (though inside which people had yet to know what the Spirit of God, and the very Soul of the Word of God made flesh. You may differ.

Jesus goes on to state that "There is only One who is good. (meaning God - Jesus's Father). IF you want to enter life keep the commandments." Why is Jesus saying this, if he was someone who fulfills the law and the prophets? Because Jesus is pointing the man back to the commandments which by his birthright he had done and knew about having probably gone to the synagogues growing up from childhood.

Which the Man asked Jesus which ones are you talking about that I should keep? Jesus replies with you shall not murder, commit adulty, steal, not give false testimony, honor your mother and father, and love your neighbor as yourself.

The man states back to Jesus, All of these I have kept. What is it do I still lack that I may gain eternal life? So here the man replies, saying he has kept most of the commands that Jesus had just mentioned to him, in verse 18-19, looking at verse 20.

Here Jesus mentions being perfect again, to be complete, have integrity - “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” Verse 21.

Jesus again here refers again to the material means - which this means is for a spiritual means too - responds saying that if he desires to be perfect, go sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Thinking about this, to let go of our flesh in trying to feed it by possessions it is better to let go, and to give those are in need so that the man will have treasure in heaven.

Just as Jesus said to his Disciples in Matthew 5, how is it we can be perfect? He stated that it was to be perfect as their Father in heaven is perfect. Here to be perfect, the man needed to materially sell everything he had because he was wealthy. Jesus ends it by saying once he has done that, he will have treasure in heaven and should come to follow Him.

​

After the man had left, - in an instance you can see a mark here between old covenant and new covenant Jesus was brining forth. As the man - left onward (not sure what he did) but went back to his material ways that he first performed by the flesh, of perfecting in obeying the law to be made right with God because Jesus doesn't say here right out they he was right with God just yet, until the follow Him part in which He would be made seen right with God by faith. That is where being complete in Him is found and it is finished comes into play that brings forth new life to a believer in which they begin to follow after Jesus.

So why is it hard for a rich to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven? Because they do not see their flaws before a truly perfect and holy God. It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter into the kingdom of God. The question here becomes what does it mean to be rich? That could be rich in pride, status, placing oneself above others, not just wealth itself. Because it is okay for Christians to make money, and save it and use it as they will but not to be come prideful above others because of it. That is why it is so hard for a rich person to enter into the kingdom of Heaven.

After explaining this to them, the disciples Who then can be saved?

Jesus responded and looked at them, with this is impossible (through material means), but with God (through spiritual means) with Him all things are possible.

So what does it mean to be perfect is it by the flesh or by and through faith in Christ and resting in his works, and having relationship with the Father, to walk in integrity to be open and honest with God with our failures and to believe on the one whom God had sent.

It will be by law Matt. By definition perfect is sinless, which is not violating any of Jehovah's laws. All humans alive at the end of the millennial reign of Christ will be perfect, that means sinless, and capable of not sinning. They will come to life after they pass a similar test that Adam and Eve had to take, direct dealing with satan. Rev 20:5, 7,8

Jesus proved beyond any reasonable doubt, that a perfect man is able to live by God's standards without sinning.

 

[MatthewG]

It will be by law Matt. By definition perfect is sinless, which is not violating any of Jehovah's laws. All humans alive at the end of the millennial reign of Christ will be perfect, that means sinless, and capable of not sinning. They will come to life after they pass a similar test that Adam and Eve had to take, direct dealing with satan. Rev 20:5, 7,8

Jesus proved beyond any reasonable doubt, that a perfect man is able to live by God's standards without sinning.

Perfect - doesn't have anything to do with being sinless. It deals with being complete, mature, or perhaps walking with integrity. No one by their flesh is sinless, unless they are Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ works in and through us by the spirit to produce good fruits which is always having love for God and having love for others. You suggest to to be complete is by law. When Jesus Christ fulfilled the law and prophet.

Jesus the True Vine = John 15​

15 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch of mine that bears no fruit, he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already made clean by the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. 5 I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you will, and it shall be done for you. 8 By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be my disciples. 9 As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you; abide in my love. 10 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and abide in his love. 11 These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full.

12 “This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command you. 15 No longer do I call you servants,[a] for the servant[b] does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all that I have heard from my Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide; so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you. 17 This I command you, to love one another.

From my understanding it is by faith that a person really can be set free in Christ, they are also made complete in him being made right with God, according to the scriptures. Being perfected - complete in Christ is to follow him, and seeing him as the perfecter of our faith.

God’s Discipline Proves His Love Hebrews 12:​

12 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a huge crowd of witnesses to the life of faith, let us strip off every weight that slows us down, especially the sin that so easily trips us up. And let us run with endurance the race God has set before us. 2 We do this by keeping our eyes on Jesus, the champion who initiates and perfects our faith.[a] Because of the joy[b] awaiting him, he endured the cross, disregarding its shame. Now he is seated in the place of honor beside God’s throne. 3 Think of all the hostility he endured from sinful people;[c] then you won’t become weary and give up. 4 After all, you have not yet given your lives in your struggle against sin.

Your understanding is completely different than mine but that is alright, thank you for sharing.

I cant be justified by doing the law, but people are justified by the bloodshed of Christ and believing on Him who raised Jesus from the dead, its all because of him, and nothing we may do.

Results of Justification Romans 5​

5 Therefore, since we are justified by faith, we[a] have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Through him we have obtained access[b] to this grace in which we stand, and we[c] rejoice in our hope of sharing the glory of God. 3 More than that, we[d] rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, 4 and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, 5 and hope does not disappoint us, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit which has been given to us.

6 While we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 Why, one will hardly die for a righteous man—though perhaps for a good man one will dare even to die. 8 But God shows his love for us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. 9 Since, therefore, we are now justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. 10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.

 

[MatthewG]

Our resurrection will make us completely perfect. Until then, we have moments of perfection when the acts of the Holy Spirit are performed through us. We cooperate with His plan for us acts of love, a message given at the right time, etc.

It's allow about allowing God to work in and through us, to walk by the spirit by faith.

According to Paul in his writing to Galatians:

He said in Chapter 5 this:

Galatians 5:16-18

New International Version

​

16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever[a] you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

In Chapter 2 of the same Letter to the people in Galatia.

Galatians 2:11-21

Revised Standard Version

​

Paul Rebukes Peter at Antioch​

11 But when Cephas came to Antioch I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For before certain men came from James, he ate with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party. 13 And with him the rest of the Jews acted insincerely, so that even Barnabas was carried away by their insincerity. 14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, “If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?” 15 We ourselves, who are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners, 16 yet who know that a man is not justified[a] by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ, and not by works of the law, because by works of the law shall no one be justified. 17 But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we ourselves were found to be sinners, is Christ then an agent of sin? Certainly not! 18 But if I build up again those things which I tore down, then I prove myself a transgressor. 19 For I through the law died to the law, that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me; and the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not nullify the grace of God; for if justification[b] were through the law, then Christ died to no purpose.

Something here in verse 21 is very worth noting as well for those who believe Justification would be through the law...

Then Christ died for no purpose - and there is no reason to believe on him because people in that day did seek highly even some today to be justified by law, rather than faith on Christ Jesus.

Thank you for your comment @Ronald David Bruno

 

[MatthewG]

None of us are any more " Perfect" that we are " Righteous" or " Holy".....
God , however, * SEES* us just as Perfect as Jesus was if we simply put our Trust In Him and Him ALONE to Save us---Simply Believe 1Cor15:1-4 and you will be " clothed" with the Perfection of Christ...it's that " Imputation" thingy that you might of heard about..

Yes, that is something that I been trying to explain to others. From my outlook not one person is better than another even if they believe in Faith on the Lord Jesus christ, there is benefits being a believer with newness of life but that doesnt make and individual superior.

All of us bleed the same. All of us are equal do it God sending the rain on the just and the unjust, though unbelievers are simply creations of God and not yet Children of God, God still loves them, and takes care them even if they dont deserve it...

Amazing God we serve in my opinion. Thank you for bringing up this scripture.

The Purpose of the Law - Galatians 3​

19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made; and it was ordained by angels through an intermediary. 20 Now an intermediary implies more than one; but God is one.

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not; for if a law had been given which could make alive, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. 22 But the scripture consigned all things to sin, that what was promised to faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

23 Now before faith came, we were confined under the law, kept under restraint until faith should be revealed. 24 So that the law was our custodian until Christ came, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a custodian; 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.

 

[Grailhunter]

Some scriptures cannot be explained and should be left as they are.
Put some think that they have to be explained and you can see here the results of that. Far out left field statements that make no sense....theological tap dances.....Holier than thou and in the end just confuses people.
The scripture here is not just about perfection it is "as" the perfection of God the Father. Not going to happen on any level or category.

Then ya got those that climb up on the soup box and claim their superior understanding.....laughable.
Only if you were full of the Holy Spirit you would understand the scripture!
If you were knowledgeable you would understand the scripture!
If you were a mature Christian you would understand the scripture!
If you were close to God you would understand the scripture!

It is kind of like Hans Christian Andersen's the Emperor's new clothes ..... everyone is trying to pretend that they see the truth.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

From my outlook not one person is better than another even if they believe in Faith on the Lord Jesus christ, there is benefits being a believer with newness of life but that doesnt make and individual superior.

What I hear you as saying here is, what do you have that God hasn’t given you, and if this is so, and you have been freed and they haven’t, stay humble, don’t be found beating the slaves when He returns and don’t judge anything before it’s time but fear God, who judges harder and expects more from those who He gives more to.

Men tend to lord over and create these hierarchies in their minds and hearts, and not yet seeing some things that still remain hidden to them, they go off the rails in it since there still remains so much they cannot yet properly divide.

If you think you know anything, you have not yet known as you ought to.
1 Cor 8:2

 

[MatthewG]

Some can't you are right @Grailhunter, but not all.

“For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1‬:‭17‬ ‭RSV‬‬

John 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. | Revised Standard Version (RSV) | Download The Bible App Now

For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

bible.com

 

[MatthewG]

I think some of the doctrines we are taught have garbled a lot of it. Yes, it makes us right with God because of our trust. But men take us in bad directions from there. You are forgiven, you are made right with God. He showed you favor when He opened your eyes and was pleased to show Jesus to you. A lot of unfortunate directions can be gone in from there. One of those bad directions is to say I am saved and have Christ’s very own righteousness And You are not saved and though it may seem you are a more righteous man than me and that you are better at how you treat others than I am, that’s just filthy rags.
So you have condemned a man who treats his neighbor better than you while claiming you are better than him because of some “positional” thing that no other man can see.
Its a really bad direction that men lead you in while they think they can see and can help you or disciple you. And we are told to beware the leaven of men, but we swallow it because it seems it must be right if so many think it is.

You know, I remember after I received the down payment of the Spirit, I became very sad when I went online and began to listen to the doctrines/leaven of men. It was a crushing sadness because I did not understand why God came to me, who was not a good person, while I saw some quite good people around me He did not come to. I’d lived a horrible life, they had not. It did not come into my awareness until a long time after that my sorrow came from what they gave me to swallow. It was the error they taught that made me so bereft. What they taught did not build up my trust, it just made me so, so sad.

That is why from my perspective people who are curious to know about the bible should read it, and study it.

It is not being about better than others from my understanding. It's about loving God and loving others, as Jesus had commanded. That also comes at the cost of suffering for Christ, and also having love as define in 1 Corinthians 13, and Jesus Christ in and through people by the Spirit causes a person to love in an agape sense.

1 Corinthians 13

Revised Standard Version

​

The Gift of Love​

13 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 If I give away all I have, and if I deliver my body to be burned,[a] but have not love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient and kind; love is not jealous or boastful; 5 it is not arrogant or rude. Love does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; 6 it does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices in the right. 7 Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never ends; as for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect; 10 but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood. 13 So faith, hope, love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

If a person puts the world into measures - that requires one to love those who do live in the world even when they have not become a child of God yet, or desire nothing to do with God. It is quite amazing that God gives us all life every day when we wake up.

People find Jesus in their own time, and he will lead them if they make the choice to seek for him, even do studying, they will be set free in truth cause truth will set them free.

The Doctrines of men or what they can create as of these days it doesn't matter much to me personally, the truth is founded in the bible through contextual reasoning.

Who was it written to, what was going on in that time period when they were writing, what was the purpose of the message, asking these critical question leads to a good understanding and getting a good grip around context that founded in the Bible.

Of course that is my perspective of how to go about it correctly, but perhaps that is wrong.

God is not going to judge us off our knowledge... from my understanding He is going to look at the heart and judge based off of it and nothing else. Knowledge puffs up but love edifies.