The Impassable Great Gulf in Hell: No legs to walk with

[MatthewG]

Hope to hear your thoughts sometime later on @farouk...

Sometimes I get pretty defensive but it really seems people truly just kind of believe in Jesus, but not his total victory. They are constantly, saying he hasn't returned we are waiting, well if that is the case... why are there so many churches today? Why can't there be one perfect unified assembly of people who are blameless without blemish, in which Jesus Christ could return and get? Other than the one that was with-in the generation of that context of the Bible.

That is probably why I believe so widely different than everyone else. I don't care about the traditions held by grandma and grandpa, or by the people at church in what they preach.

So would love to see what you have to say about post number #80

Because I believe 100% that hell is over with but many people don't because "SO MANY PEOPLE BELIEVE IT IS STILL GOING" I guess. Depends on what how acceptable a person desire to by others? An example is if other people believe the trinity, then I need to do the same thing in order to be accepted by that group, or Oh these people believe Jesus is still coming back, I will believe like them to be accepted, or Oh these people say that "You must be water baptized otherwise your not saved, well I better get baptized in order to be accepted by these people.

It seems we will do anything to "fit" in, but Jesus Christ was not someone who "fit in" in the reality of it all having no beauty, and no one really desired him...

 

[robert derrick]

Thank you for your comment. From my understanding, no one goes to hell anymore due to Jesus Christ and his victory. With this in mind, I believe the end Goal for God himself is having all people resurrected, and people on the outside of the kingdom, and those on the inside, according to the Bible.

Unless Jesus is a failure, and God is not real.

You are free to come up with your own gospel of course.

But don't be accusing Jesus and God, when their word says your gospel is cursed.

That's going too far.

 

[Phoneman777]

The Scripture in Matthew said Jesus would be speaking parables in that chapter, and so He did, and the disciples knew it.

You apply that to any and all Scripture you want, which turns the Bible into just another book of parables, legends, allegories, myths, and mysteries, etc...according to your desire to preach another gospel of a falsely created christ.

Not everything He said was parabolic - but when speaking to hard hearted Jews, parables were the only thing that He could use to get through to them, as He Himself testified. What are the parables of Jesus? Well, one of them is the Rich Man and Lazarus.

Which includes your philosophy that has not the Spirit nor Jesus Christ dwelling within you, to quicken your mortal body thereby:

Bro...ALL I DO is tell people the Christian is to "keep the commandments of God" by the indwelling power of Jesus' spirit. So, maybe acquaint yourself with my "philosophy" before making false claims about it, OK?

Your gospel is philosophic only, because as the sophists of old, you turn phrases dishonestly to your own rhetorical purposes.

It's BIBLE based only - how do we know? Look at all that Scripture I use to back it up.

But, I'll be posting your confirmation of rejecting the indwelling Spirit, and knowing not the Son of God.

I'd suggest you read the TOS which PROHIBITS such accusations, understand? Calling into question another's salvation is expressly prohibited, understand? However, when it comes to doctrinal error, it's open season on that.

Which is why you have no divine power from Him nor partake of His divine nature, but only hold to the carnal earthly mind and wisdom of natural man:

This is the last time you accuse me or anyone else of lacking salvation, understand? If I see one more post, you're getting reported. Call us blind, deceived, misinformed, weak in the faith, whatever, and speculate all you want but do not judge anyone "carnally minded" aka "unsaved" again. Are we clear?

The soul is spiritual only made in the image of God. The mortal body is not the soul, nor is the soul the mortal body, because spirit and flesh cannot become one and the same:

How many times I gotta tell you the Soul comes into existence and exists only as a consequence of the union of the Body and the Breath (Spirit) of Life, according to Genesis 2:7 KJV, and thus cannot continue to exist when the Body returns to dust and the Spirit returns to God?

That is why the unenlightened natural man such as yourself and Nicodemus thinks being born again, can only be naturally from the mother's womb.

"Natural" unsaved man, right? Antichrist "takes the place" of Christ. Do you presume to take His place on His judgment seat? It seems so. Enough.

I'll be posting this jewel of oblivion theology to another thread. Thanks. Oblivion is only possible with a natural theology of a natural god, who can't see and know everything everywhere, and there is no anywhere that does not exist without His knowledge.

Your Gospel of Subjectivity is as flawed now as it's always been - a product of self delusion.

God the Creator is not uncreate anything.

Says who? Obadiah says the wicked "shall be as though they had not been". Ezekiel says of Satan, "never shalt thou be anymore". John says "the former things are passed away" and that "the world passeth away and the lust thereof, but he that doeth the will of God abideth forever".

I've already answered your other stuff, which you do not acknowledge. So, I'll not be repeating myself, but only responding to any new stuff you may have. That way the endless cycle will eventually end. Unlike you and others of the created christ gospel, you just enjoy intellectual debate for it's own sake, like the gnostics and sophists of old.

No, we don't enjoy what we do at all. We'd like to "sing the wondrous love of Jesus, sing His mercy and His grace" all day long but we're caught in a battle with the enemy who specializes in "seducing spirits and doctrines of devils" and therefore we must labor to help others avoid being seduced by such doctrines by challenging the false ideas of Christians like you who have.

 

[MatthewG]

The Gospel?

From my understanding Robert Derrick,

The Gospel is about the how God had sent his Word that became flesh, born of Mary, born under the law. He completed his mission by fulfilling the Law, paying for the price of sin for all people by dying on the cross, and being raised again by God. This includes also the promises of his return to those people then in that day in age, and the fulfillment of all things which allows for the Kingdom to be established now today.

That is the Gospel in just a few short words of what I believe.

With that being said, many people disregard Revelation as though it has not even happened yet, or it is a source that continuously repeats depending on the view a person may have.

The only question that remains is this in my opinion which is faulty - Did Jesus Christ have the victory? Did he return for his bride in that day in age? And if he did not, then all people should be using the Bible, and ex-commune people from church and doing all it doctrinally demands but people do not objectively do this with their own congregations.

So, if you wanna continue to say I am making up my Gospel when my thoughts I believe by the spirit still always direct to the final book of the Revelation 21-22, which to me in my opinion which is faulty - that God doesn't send people to hell anymore, but there is an outside of the Kingdom - what that looks like I do not know can they see the heavenly kingdom? I don't know, but I believe that God desires for all come to the knowledge of the truth and for some odd reason...

I tend to believe that God still has some type of plan even after this life but many people due to their own understanding always says there is no second chance after this life, but that Heavenly City is described having gates that never close.

Considering all of this is with-in the Bible... hopefully the spirit provides an answer for people of an hopeful expectation after this life, that is far better than the naturally subscribed to man-made traditions which they use the Bible to justify their own outlooks just as I have done here.

 

[amigo de christo]

Believe in the glorious gospel of JESUS CHRIST and ye shall be saved .
But unto those who deny Him , those who deny the TESTIMONY that GOD gave of HIS SON
it will be damanation . JESUS said it . So believe it . BELIEVE YE IN CHRIST JESUS WHOM GOD DID SEND .
Now let all that draws breath both praise and thank the LORD .
The only condemantion a man has is that he wont come to the light of Christ . JESUS said that too .
So lets tell the peoples o the world , BEILEVE YE IN JESUS CHRIST .
For even JESUS told those who had not repented to beleive on Him , IT will be worse for you on the day of judgment
than it was for sodom . Lets point to CHRIST and give people the real HOPE , TRUTH and true love of GOD .

 

[robert derrick]

Not everything He said was parabolic -

Once you've moved Scripture out of context in one place, you moved all of Scripture as you like. You put an eye where only an ear should be, and the whole body is disfigured.

but when speaking to hard hearted Jews, parables were the only thing that He could use to get through to them, as He Himself testified.

And you only want a parable from Jesus, instead of the truth He reveals.

What are the parables of Jesus? Well, one of them is the Rich Man and Lazarus.

As you desire.

Bro...ALL I DO is tell people the Christian is to "keep the commandments of God" by the indwelling power of Jesus' spirit.

This is the first time you've done so with me.

Do you know Jesus Christ and have the Spirit of God dwelling within you?

I say I do have Jesus living and fellowshipping within my soul.

Do you not believe Jesus Christ is a created being, and is the deified man and christ in heaven?

I do not at all.

Do you believe the Word was God, and God was made flesh and called Jesus?

I certainly do.

I'd suggest you read the TOS which PROHIBITS such accusations, understand? Calling into question another's salvation is expressly prohibited, understand?

You are the first one to bring up being saved. I've said nothing about it, because it's not what is being taught here.

This is the last time you accuse me or anyone else of lacking salvation, understand? If I see one more post, you're getting reported.

And in typical fashion, people like you descend into false accusation, because you can't stand being corrected.

When you see me or anyone say you are not saved, then go tell it to anyone you like. I have been called a devil going straight to hell, and an unsaved proud self-righteous boaster.

Big deal. You really think I care what others think of me?

For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

How many times I gotta tell you the Soul comes into existence and exists only as a consequence of the union of the Body and the Breath (Spirit) of Life, according to Genesis 2:7 KJV, and thus cannot continue to exist when the Body returns to dust and the Spirit returns to God?

Once was enough to know it's rubbish. And correcting you once or twice is all Scripture allows. That's why you don't see me trying to correct your old stuff with Scripture anymore.

John says "the former things are passed away" and that "the world passeth away and the lust thereof, but he that doeth the will of God abideth forever".

This is new, and so I'll correct your mishandling of it.

Passing away doesn't mean never existed, nor that it don't exist in another state elsewhere.

The old earth will be burned by fire and flee from the face of God on His throne, and so will have have passed away elsewhere: in another place forever away from the face of God and His people in the new heaven and earth.

Out of site and out of mind, not out of existence.

I personally believe there is enough Scripture to show that the lake of fire is the old heaven and earth passing out of remembrance away from the New Jerusalem, with all the angels that rebel against God, and all the souls of the wicked, that refused to let their sin be forgiven and pass away.

Even as they lived unto themselves alone without Christ on earth, so they will be as planetary stars of their own making, burning in their lust in darkness of blackness forever.

These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

It will include some naming the name of Christ, and yet don't stop sinning their old sins, that were once forgiven, but are returned to again, while still seeking the company of the righteous, to defile the body of Christ thereby.

And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

No, we don't enjoy what we do at all. We'd like to "sing the wondrous love of Jesus, sing His mercy and His grace" all day long but we're caught in a battle with the enemy who specializes in "seducing spirits and doctrines of devils" and therefore we must labor to help others avoid being seduced by such doctrines by challenging the false ideas of Christians like you who have.

Then do so, and quit coming back to what you hate so much, like a moth to the flame.

I reject your mortal soul natural theology, as well as any christ, that is said to have ceased to exist for three days.

Jesus Christ was God, is God, and ever shall be God with the Father and the Holy Ghost.

The mortal body of Jesus died on a cross, and His body went to the grave, while He went by the Spirit into hell to preach to all the souls in prison. Neither His soul nor that of the righteous souls in Abraham's bosom, was left in hell, when the Spirit resurrected the dead body, that He prepared for Christ in the womb of Mary.

 

[Phoneman777]

Once you've moved Scripture out of context in one place, you moved all of Scripture as you like. You put an eye where only an ear should be, and the whole body is disfigured.



And you only want a parable from Jesus, instead of the truth He reveals.




As you desire.



This is the first time you've done so with me.

Do you know Jesus Christ and have the Spirit of God dwelling within you?

I say I do have Jesus living and fellowshipping within my soul.

Do you not believe Jesus Christ is a created being, and is the deified man and christ in heaven?

I do not at all.

Do you believe the Word was God, and God was made flesh and called Jesus?

I certainly do.





You are the first one to bring up being saved. I've said nothing about it, because it's not what is being taught here.



And in typical fashion, people like you descend into false accusation, because you can't stand being corrected.

When you see me or anyone say you are not saved, then go tell it to anyone you like. I have been called a devil going straight to hell, and an unsaved proud self-righteous boaster.

Big deal. You really think I care what others think of me?

For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.



Once was enough to know it's rubbish. And correcting you once or twice is all Scripture allows. That's why you don't see me trying to correct your old stuff with Scripture anymore.



This is new, and so I'll correct your mishandling of it.

Passing away doesn't mean never existed, nor that it don't exist in another state elsewhere.

The old earth will be burned by fire and flee from the face of God on His throne, and so will have have passed away elsewhere: in another place forever away from the face of God and His people in the new heaven and earth.

Out of site and out of mind, not out of existence.

I personally believe there is enough Scripture to show that the lake of fire is the old heaven and earth passing out of remembrance away from the New Jerusalem, with all the angels that rebel against God, and all the souls of the wicked, that refused to let their sin be forgiven and pass away.

Even as they lived unto themselves alone without Christ on earth, so they will be as planetary stars of their own making, burning in their lust in darkness of blackness forever.

These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

It will include some naming the name of Christ, and yet don't stop sinning their old sins, that were once forgiven, but are returned to again, while still seeking the company of the righteous, to defile the body of Christ thereby.

And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.




Then do so, and quit coming back to what you hate so much, like a moth to the flame.

I reject your mortal soul natural theology, as well as any christ, that is said to have ceased to exist for three days.

Jesus Christ was God, is God, and ever shall be God with the Father and the Holy Ghost.

The mortal body of Jesus died on a cross, and His body went to the grave, while He went by the Spirit into hell to preach to all the souls in prison. Neither His soul nor that of the righteous souls in Abraham's bosom, was left in hell, when the Spirit resurrected the dead body, that He prepared for Christ in the womb of Mary.

You can read the Bible cover to cover and can't point to a single verse which says "immortal soul" or "everlasting soul".

Why is that?

You mean to tell us that a "truth" upon which alomst the entire Christian world rests doesn't mention it even ONCE?

And what's worse, whenever the Bible repeatedly says the soul is subject to death and destruction, not only do you fail to point to anything which says the soul is immortal, but you insist that these words refer to "eternal separation of the immortal soul" from God. BULLDOOKEY, friend.

You and I and Hitler and Satan do not possess "immortal souls", we ourselves are souls, mortal through and through, which is why Scripture says "God ONLY hath immortality" and we must SEEK FOR IMMORTALITY.

I told you that since God is a spirit and has not a flesh and bone body, the "immortality" attributed to Him and is granted to us has NOTHING to do with such a body - "immortality" refers to the WHOLE of God's existence and therefore the WHOLE of the saint's existence is granted immortality to them that seek for it...NOT JUST THE BODY!

 

[Phoneman777]

Once you've moved Scripture out of context in one place, you moved all of Scripture as you like. You put an eye where only an ear should be, and the whole body is disfigured.



And you only want a parable from Jesus, instead of the truth He reveals.




As you desire.



This is the first time you've done so with me.

Do you know Jesus Christ and have the Spirit of God dwelling within you?

I say I do have Jesus living and fellowshipping within my soul.

Do you not believe Jesus Christ is a created being, and is the deified man and christ in heaven?

I do not at all.

Do you believe the Word was God, and God was made flesh and called Jesus?

I certainly do.





You are the first one to bring up being saved. I've said nothing about it, because it's not what is being taught here.



And in typical fashion, people like you descend into false accusation, because you can't stand being corrected.

When you see me or anyone say you are not saved, then go tell it to anyone you like. I have been called a devil going straight to hell, and an unsaved proud self-righteous boaster.

Big deal. You really think I care what others think of me?

For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.



Once was enough to know it's rubbish. And correcting you once or twice is all Scripture allows. That's why you don't see me trying to correct your old stuff with Scripture anymore.



This is new, and so I'll correct your mishandling of it.

Passing away doesn't mean never existed, nor that it don't exist in another state elsewhere.

The old earth will be burned by fire and flee from the face of God on His throne, and so will have have passed away elsewhere: in another place forever away from the face of God and His people in the new heaven and earth.

Out of site and out of mind, not out of existence.

I personally believe there is enough Scripture to show that the lake of fire is the old heaven and earth passing out of remembrance away from the New Jerusalem, with all the angels that rebel against God, and all the souls of the wicked, that refused to let their sin be forgiven and pass away.

Even as they lived unto themselves alone without Christ on earth, so they will be as planetary stars of their own making, burning in their lust in darkness of blackness forever.

These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

It will include some naming the name of Christ, and yet don't stop sinning their old sins, that were once forgiven, but are returned to again, while still seeking the company of the righteous, to defile the body of Christ thereby.

And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.




Then do so, and quit coming back to what you hate so much, like a moth to the flame.

I reject your mortal soul natural theology, as well as any christ, that is said to have ceased to exist for three days.

Jesus Christ was God, is God, and ever shall be God with the Father and the Holy Ghost.

The mortal body of Jesus died on a cross, and His body went to the grave, while He went by the Spirit into hell to preach to all the souls in prison. Neither His soul nor that of the righteous souls in Abraham's bosom, was left in hell, when the Spirit resurrected the dead body, that He prepared for Christ in the womb of Mary.

Dr. R. F. Weymouth, one of the greatest Greek scholars of modern times, would strongly disagree with your woefully inadequate understanding of Scripture and especially your claim the Soul's "death" and "destruction" means "eternal separation in torment":

The New Testament in Modern Speech
by Dr. R. F. Weymouth
​

"My mind fails to conceive a grosser misrepresentation of language than when five or six of the strongest words which the Greek tongue possesses, signifying to "destroy" or "destruction", are explained to mean, "maintaining an everlasting but wretched existence". To translate "black" as "white" is nothing to this.

Got it? "Extinction of being" ... "pass out of existence"...."the former things are passed away"...."never shalt thou BE anymore"..."the wicked shall not BE"..."(the wicked) shall be as though they HAD NOT BEEN".

His note on 1 Corinthians 15:16-18 KJV: "By 'perish', the Apostle means 'pass out of existence'".

"The use in the N.T. of such words as 'death', 'destruction', 'fire', 'perish' to describe Future Retribution point to the likelihood of fearful anguish followed by EXTINCTION OF BEING".

 

[MatthewG]

@Phoneman777 if a person must seek for immortality, why does Jesus promise to resurrect those of faith and non-faith?

If the nonbeliever sought after immortality then according to the Bible... everyone is going to be resurrected.

This is a great conundrum?

 

[Phoneman777]

@Phoneman777 if a person must seek for immortality, why does Jesus promise to resurrect those of faith and non-faith?

If the nonbeliever sought after immortality then according to the Bible... everyone is going to be resurrected.

This is a great conundrum?

What do you mean "if" a person is to seek immortality?

Paul PLAINLY tells you that ONLY those who seek immortality will be granted immortality, right or wrong?

Therefore, the wicked who DO NOT SEEK immortality will NOT BE GRANTED immortality - they will burn up and out of existence while "he that doeth the will of God abideth forever".

The wicked "shall not be" and "will be as though they had not been" and "never shalt be anymore" and "will pass away" with the former things of the world and will "sleep the sleep of death" and will "sleep a perpetual sleep and not wake".

The Bible couldn't be anymore clear.

 

[MatthewG]

What about Revelation 21-22, though @Phoneman777, and Gods desired purpose and will to have none perish?

I can do the same thing you are doing via questioning.

 

[Marilyn C]

The natural minded men that read Scripture, and try to change it, can show certain mysteries of Scripture by their errors.

They symbolize hell and souls in hell as parables only, because for them only natural bodies have eyes, ears, and tongues. And in the process they say souls don't have legs either apart from the mortal body.

According to Scripture that last part may be true, because Jesus did not say anything about Abraham, Lazarus, and the tormented rich man in hell having legs, but only eyes, ears, and tongues to see, hear, and speak with: But no legs to move with.

And so, that would be why they could speak and hear, but could not walk and move from place to place.

The great gulf is the fixed place between the righteous in Abraham's bosom in hell, and the unrighteous in flames of hell, but as with many times, the natural mind assumes certain things, such as great being that of distance.

Being great in Scripture can be that of great good or evil, and also that of distance or strength.

The gulf between the two is fixed, because the souls are fixed in place, and cannot walk and move from one place to the other, nor even one spot to another, and it has nothing to do with distance between each soul, because they are able to talk with one another, as nearby neighbors.

This is why they are called the spirits in prison: each of them is imprisoned in a strong fixed place without possibility of moving around.

And so that great gulf is not a matter of distance, but of immovability, so that the soul in flames could talk with the soul not in flames, but neither of them could move to join or help the other.

This also shows the love of Abraham for all his children, whether good or evil, so that if he could have done as asked, then he would have: This is the same of course for the Lord God of Abraham.

This also shows that right next to the tormented rich man in hell, was water that those in Abraham's bosom could drink.

That is torment indeed.

Hi Robert

Yes indeed, great torment for those who would go to hell. I believe that those who are sent to hell will have no body but just be their spirit that can neither hear or see, or taste or talk etc. ` Truly a hell to be locked into your own condemning thoughts forever.

Marilyn.

 

[amigo de christo]

Hi Robert

Yes indeed, great torment for those who would go to hell. I believe that those who are sent to hell will have no body but just be their spirit that can neither hear or see, or taste or talk etc. ` Truly a hell to be locked into your own condemning thoughts forever.

Marilyn.

Thank GOD for the saving grace given us in Christ Jesus . Because of What HE DID , the lambs who believe shall have eternal life
and wont have to go to the bad place . That is reason enough to praise and thank HIM at all times .
So lift those hands up and let the LORD be praised and thanked always and continually . And let us POINT to CHRIST
and stay plugged in our bibles . Many will wail indeed as JESUS tells them depart from me i never knew you .
OH but let the lambs Praise the LORD for the hope of eternal life we have in CHRIST . Now lift those hands marilyn and praise the KING .

 

[MatthewG]

What do you mean "if" a person is to seek immortality?

Paul PLAINLY tells you that ONLY those who seek immortality will be granted immortality, right or wrong?

Therefore, the wicked who DO NOT SEEK immortality will NOT BE GRANTED immortality - they will burn up and out of existence while "he that doeth the will of God abideth forever".

The wicked "shall not be" and "will be as though they had not been" and "never shalt be anymore" and "will pass away" with the former things of the world and will "sleep the sleep of death" and will "sleep a perpetual sleep and not wake".

The Bible couldn't be anymore clear.

Basically there won’t be any thing wicked within the Heavenly Jerusalem, however in revelation it is mentioned hear this:

Revelation 22:11

Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy.”

You also have this:

Revelation 22:14 14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

Basically I simply believe that all people who pass on in this life are resurrected. I believe that hell has done away with but most done, and I believe what remains of what God has set up is either in or outside of the heavenly kingdom.

So… the eternal life one build ups now today is that spiritual life that goes on, and according to a psalm God has set eternity upon man’s heart.

I just don’t believe people are burnt up and done away with, but do believe that the nation of Israel was materially burnt up and done away with in 70Ad.

Anyway I just desired to share that with you and others though many just simply say no they cannot be.

 

[MatthewG]

I believe perhaps that this could be a factor in the afterlife as well, of people having a portion of the lake of fire but not forever?

This burning perhaps has a cleansing purpose.

Revelation 21:8​

King James Version​

​

8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

This second death to me could be them dying to themselves in the afterlife and seeking for God in their own time perhaps.

These are just some thoughts based on the scripture at least.

Because I’d like to go help those outside the kingdom if God permitted it to be so. To me this type of view gives me great hope in God who can not be overcome.

 

[Marilyn C]

Thank GOD for the saving grace given us in Christ Jesus . Because of What HE DID , the lambs who believe shall have eternal life
and wont have to go to the bad place . That is reason enough to praise and thank HIM at all times .
So lift those hands up and let the LORD be praised and thanked always and continually . And let us POINT to CHRIST
and stay plugged in our bibles . Many will wail indeed as JESUS tells them depart from me i never knew you .
OH but let the lambs Praise the LORD for the hope of eternal life we have in CHRIST . Now lift those hands marilyn and praise the KING .

Hi amigo,

I do praise the Lord with you and remember you from long ago and far away.....

Marilyn.

 

[amigo de christo]

Hi amigo,

I do praise the Lord with you and remember you from long ago and far away.....

Marilyn.

I know . I just enjoy reminding folks . On that note , ITS TIME TO PRAISE the GLORIOUS LORD .

 

[robert derrick]

You can read the Bible cover to cover and can't point to a single verse which says "immortal soul" or "everlasting soul".

Why is that?

You mean to tell us that a "truth" upon which alomst the entire Christian world rests doesn't mention it even ONCE?

And what's worse, whenever the Bible repeatedly says the soul is subject to death and destruction, not only do you fail to point to anything which says the soul is immortal, but you insist that these words refer to "eternal separation of the immortal soul" from God. BULLDOOKEY, friend.

You and I and Hitler and Satan do not possess "immortal souls", we ourselves are souls, mortal through and through, which is why Scripture says "God ONLY hath immortality" and we must SEEK FOR IMMORTALITY.

I told you that since God is a spirit and has not a flesh and bone body, the "immortality" attributed to Him and is granted to us has NOTHING to do with such a body - "immortality" refers to the WHOLE of God's existence and therefore the WHOLE of the saint's existence is granted immortality to them that seek for it...NOT JUST THE BODY!

For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Jesus prophesies going to the heart of the earth for 3 days.

He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

Scripture confirms it was hell He went to, while His body was in the grave.

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison.

Scripture confirms He went there by the Spirit to preach His gospel.

Like, the Word was God, and the Word was made flesh, and Jesus Christ came in the flesh = Jesus Christ is the God of Israel come in the flesh.

Once simple proof of Scripture is rejected as written, then there is no more debate, but only an observance of how many other Scriptures will be rejected and/or changed to fit the lies, that man would rather believe. Such as mortal soul theology, and a created christ.

I've corrected the ones you done it to so far. If you have any new ways of doing so, then I would be glad to correct those too. I enjoy the Scriptural exercise of doing so. It also offers insight into how the minds of men can persist in being so wrong. It's a study in self-deception.

So far as each of us is concerned, the other is a doctrinal heretic. And for every Scripture you try to interpret for a mortal soul, I can just as easily interpret for immortal souls. And since Scripture does say His soul was in hell, while His body was in the grave, then the soul theology of the pagan Greeks has more spiritual truth to it, than your natural theology of mortal souls, that cease to exist while the body is in the grave.

 

[robert derrick]

Dr. R. F. Weymouth, one of the greatest Greek scholars of modern times, would strongly disagree with your woefully inadequate understanding of Scripture and especially your claim the Soul's "death" and "destruction" means "eternal separation in torment":

The New Testament in Modern Speech
by Dr. R. F. Weymouth
​

"My mind fails to conceive a grosser misrepresentation of language than when five or six of the strongest words which the Greek tongue possesses, signifying to "destroy" or "destruction", are explained to mean, "maintaining an everlasting but wretched existence". To translate "black" as "white" is nothing to this.

Got it? "Extinction of being" ... "pass out of existence"...."the former things are passed away"...."never shalt thou BE anymore"..."the wicked shall not BE"..."(the wicked) shall be as though they HAD NOT BEEN".

His note on 1 Corinthians 15:16-18 KJV: "By 'perish', the Apostle means 'pass out of existence'".

"The use in the N.T. of such words as 'death', 'destruction', 'fire', 'perish' to describe Future Retribution point to the likelihood of fearful anguish followed by EXTINCTION OF BEING".

As with the created christ believers, you rely too much on scholarship of man, and not enough on Scripture of God.

And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Once again. Scripture tells the plain truth, and no amount of word-definition can change it, because then you have to show how tormented souls is not really torment.

 

[Phoneman777]

For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Jesus prophesies going to the heart of the earth for 3 days.

He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

Scripture confirms it was hell He went to, while His body was in the grave.

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison.

Scripture confirms He went there by the Spirit to preach His gospel.

Like, the Word was God, and the Word was made flesh, and Jesus Christ came in the flesh = Jesus Christ is the God of Israel come in the flesh.

Once simple proof of Scripture is rejected as written, then there is no more debate, but only an observance of how many other Scriptures will be rejected and/or changed to fit the lies, that man would rather believe. Such as mortal soul theology, and a created christ.

I've corrected the ones you done it to so far. If you have any new ways of doing so, then I would be glad to correct those too. I enjoy the Scriptural exercise of doing so. It also offers insight into how the minds of men can persist in being so wrong. It's a study in self-deception.

So far as each of us is concerned, the other is a doctrinal heretic. And for every Scripture you try to interpret for a mortal soul, I can just as easily interpret for immortal souls. And since Scripture does say His soul was in hell, while His body was in the grave, then the soul theology of the pagan Greeks has more spiritual truth to it, than your natural theology of mortal souls, that cease to exist while the body is in the grave.

You see? I told you there's not one passage that contains the words "immortal soul" or "eternal soul" or "never dying soul to save" like in Wesley's hymn...THE TEACHING WAS DRAGGED FROM PAGANISM INTO THE CHURCH BY ROME.

"His soul was not left in hell" means "Jesus wasn't left in the tomb" because "soul" not only refers to "life" but refers to the "I", the "ego", the "self", the "whole person".

Did you ever read Genesis 2:7 KJV where is says the Soul comes into existence only as a consequence of the union of the Body and the Breath of Life, which just stands to reason that the Soul cannot exist on moment after this union is dissolved and the Body returns to the Earth and the Spirit to God just as it was when It was sent forth?