A serious questions for the Jehovah's Witnesses on these threads.

[amigo de christo]

It’s clear they are 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes.

I just seen your other post . SPOT ONRIGHT . they are jewish males , VIRGINS who follow the lamb .
Its very clear as to what and who they are . THE JWS decieve their own as have the mormons and scores of others .
And now all are uniting again to be as one under the final last hour strong delusion . RIGHT UNDER
the beast , RIGHT UNDER the dragon . Folks are buying the lie . As for the lambs we BUY THE TRUTH and we SELL IT NOT .

 

[amigo de christo]

The majority of the people didn't believe the truth during Noah's day The majority didn't believe the truth when God used angels to inspect Sodom and Gomorrah, the majority of the Jews didn't believe Jesus or the apostles, that's why the Jews killed Jesus is because the majority of the jews didn't believe Jesus, and that's why the nations persecuted the apostles and disciples of Jesus is because the majority didn't believe them. Just as the majority didn't believe the truth during those days the majority are not believing the truth today.

and the majority of all false relgions as well as all sold out christains are now believine one lie that UNITES THEM ALL to be as one .
DONT SIT UNDER IT . many do and they do not realize they sit under the lie .
All faiths now have leaders within them trying so hard to unite them with the other faiths .
Catholics , jws , mormons , baptists , evangelist , nar ,emergent and all , THE CALL of the grand lie
is now , LET US UNITE as one . What a crock of dung pile doo doo dung that is . YET you would be amazed
at how many within all those so called faiths are doing just that . AND who are they aligningthemselve with
PAPA FRANCIS who teaches that all RELIGOINS , whether buddist , muslim , atheist , etc are all finding GOD on their own path .
YET YOU FOLKS KEEP FALLING FOR THIS RUSE . I COME TO EXPOSE THIS FALSE SATANIC UNITY , this FALSE SATANIC LOVE
for what it is . ANd if all faiths and all religions and all secular unite against me , STILL I DO IT . MY DESIRE IS GOOD
for the peoples . ITS WHY I SHUN THIS FALSE LOVE , THIS FALSE UNITY TO HELL . TO HELL if i could . THE DOCTRINE IS OF SATAN
and i will have no part nor lott in it . I WILL NOT CONFORM to it . no matter how hated i am because of it .
BETTER GET OUT of the churches that seem to be so big on UNITY , SO big on this lovey lovey , YET DONT SEEM
to preach biblical doctrine , dont seem to correct and rebuke sins and false paths . GET THE HECK OUT of them sold out places .

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

and the majority of all false relgions as well as all sold out christains are now believine one lie that UNITES THEM ALL to be as one .
DONT SIT UNDER IT . many do and they do not realize they sit under the lie .
All faiths now have leaders within them trying so hard to unite them with the other faiths .
Catholics , jws , mormons , baptists , evangelist , nar ,emergent and all , THE CALL of the grand lie
is now , LET US UNITE as one . What a crock of dung pile doo doo dung that is . YET you would be amazed
at how many within all those so called faiths are doing just that . AND who are they aligningthemselve with
PAPA FRANCIS who teaches that all RELIGOINS , whether buddist , muslim , atheist , etc are all finding GOD on their own path .
YET YOU FOLKS KEEP FALLING FOR THIS RUSE . I COME TO EXPOSE THIS FALSE SATANIC UNITY , this FALSE SATANIC LOVE
for what it is . ANd if all faiths and all religions and all secular unite against me , STILL I DO IT . MY DESIRE IS GOOD
for the peoples . ITS WHY I SHUN THIS FALSE LOVE , THIS FALSE UNITY TO HELL . TO HELL if i could . THE DOCTRINE IS OF SATAN
and i will have no part nor lott in it . I WILL NOT CONFORM to it . no matter how hated i am because of it .
BETTER GET OUT of the churches that seem to be so big on UNITY , SO big on this lovey lovey , YET DONT SEEM
to preach biblical doctrine , dont seem to correct and rebuke sins and false paths . GET THE HECK OUT of them sold out places .

Just as there was one nation which was Judah/Israel that had the truth about the true God YHWH there is one religious organization that's teaching the truth about the true God YHWH today. Just because the majority don't believe that, isn't significant. What's is significant is that the majority don't believe the truth even though there is one true church which has Jesus as it's head that is teaching the truth about the True God YHWH today. Each individual person will decide for themselves if they believe that religious organization is teaching the truth about the True God YHWH.

 

[RLT63]

Just as there was one nation which was Judah/Israel that had the truth about the true God YHWH there is one religious organization that's teaching the truth about the true God YHWH today. Just because the majority don't believe that, isn't significant. What's is significant is that the majority don't believe the truth even though there is one true church which has Jesus as it's head that is teaching the truth about the True God YHWH today. Each individual person will decide for themselves if they believe that religious organization is teaching the truth about the True God YHWH.

You are just like the other denominations that claim they are the one true Church

 

[Aunty Jane]

It’s clear they are 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes.

Look carefully.....The list there in Revelation is not the order in which the sons of the patriarch Jacob (or Israel) were born. Furthermore, the name of Jacob’s fifth son Dan is missing, and the name of Jacob’s grandson Manasseh takes the place of Dan. As you may or may not know, Revelation's list preserves the number twelve as being the number of "the twelve tribes" of spiritual Israel. Also, all the names listed are names of eleven of Jacob’s sons and of one of Jacob’s grandsons by Joseph. There was no tribe of Joseph.

See too, that each tribe has an equal number of members. No tribe in fleshly Israel had the same numbers....so spiritual Israel is not like original Israel in a number of aspects. The whole organization of spiritual Israel is pictured as being in perfect balance, each tribe in itself emphasizing again the number twelve. Numbers in the Bible have spiritual significance. 12 tribes X 12,00 = 144,000.

Added to that, Jesus said to his apostles: “Truly I say to you, in the re-creation, when the Son of man sits down on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will sit on 12 thrones, judging the 12 tribes of Israel.".....
"However, you are the ones who have stuck with me in my trials; 29 and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom, 30 so that you may eat and drink at my table in my Kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the 12 tribes of Israel." (Matthew 19:28; Luke 22:28-30)

How do those who will rule with Christ in his kingdom, "judge the 12 tribes of Israel", if they themselves ARE the 12 tribes of Israel?
There has to be a different application of this designation that most people miss, otherwise it makes no sense.
The Bible makes a distinction between literal fleshly Israel and 'spiritual' Israel....so shouldnt we too look deeper?

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

You are just like the other denominations that claim they are the one true Church

It doesn't concern me what you think about what I texted, you're like the majority who will not believe the truth anyway.

 

[RLT63]

Look carefully.....The list there in Revelation is not the order in which the sons of the patriarch Jacob (or Israel) were born. Furthermore, the name of Jacob’s fifth son Dan is missing, and the name of Jacob’s grandson Manasseh takes the place of Dan. As you may or may not know, Revelation's list preserves the number twelve as being the number of "the twelve tribes" of spiritual Israel. Also, all the names listed are names of eleven of Jacob’s sons and of one of Jacob’s grandsons by Joseph. There was no tribe of Joseph.

See too, that each tribe has an equal number of members. No tribe in fleshly Israel had the same numbers....so spiritual Israel is not like original Israel in a number of aspects. The whole organization of spiritual Israel is pictured as being in perfect balance, each tribe in itself emphasizing again the number twelve. Numbers in the Bible have spiritual significance. 12 tribes X 12,00 = 144,000.

Added to that, Jesus said to his apostles: “Truly I say to you, in the re-creation, when the Son of man sits down on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will sit on 12 thrones, judging the 12 tribes of Israel.".....
"However, you are the ones who have stuck with me in my trials; 29 and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom, 30 so that you may eat and drink at my table in my Kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the 12 tribes of Israel." (Matthew 19:28; Luke 22:28-30)

How do those who will rule with Christ in his kingdom, "judge the 12 tribes of Israel", if they themselves ARE the 12 tribes of Israel?
There has to be a different application of this designation that most people miss, otherwise it makes no sense.
The Bible makes a distinction between literal fleshly Israel and 'spiritual' Israel....so shouldnt we too look deeper?

The 12 tribes are mentioned in different arrangements several times, there are actually 13 so you can leave one out and still have 12, for instance Levi is left out when they go to war.

 

[Aunty Jane]

The 12 tribes are mentioned in different arrangements several times, there are actually 13 so you can leave one out and still have 12, for instance Levi is left out when they go to war.

Please address what I posted....you ignore what you cannot answer....no defense is no defense....

 

[RLT63]

Please address what I posted....you ignore what you cannot answer....no defense is no defense....

I ignore that you take 144,000 Jews and make them JWs. This is a form of replacement theology and I don’t believe it. I don’t have to defend anything I just disagree with you. I have nothing to prove to you.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I just seen your other post . SPOT ONRIGHT . they are jewish males , VIRGINS who follow the lamb .

That is taking a symbolic statement and trying to make it literal....how can it be literal when the elect are certainly NOT all Jewish males who are virgins.....many of the first Christians were married males and females....and many no doubt like all Jewish couples, had families....so how could they be "virgins" in the physical sense? These are "virgins" in the spiritual sense because God spoke of his people committing "adultery" when they fell to worshipping false gods.

2 Cor 11:2-3...
"For I am jealous over you with a godly jealousy, for I personally promised you in marriage to one husband that I might present you as a chaste virgin to the Christ. 3 But I am afraid that somehow, as the serpent seduced Eve by its cunning, your minds might be corrupted away from the sincerity and the chastity that are due the Christ."

Its very clear as to what and who they are

Yes I think so too...but I do not believe that they are who you think them to be.
Christ's "elect" are specially chosen by God and will NOT be found among the divided churches of Christendom....they will have separated themselves as soon as they discovered the origins of Christendom's teachings.

In Revelation 17:1-2, and 18:4-5 the mystery "Babylon the great" is identified as a harlot....a city having a "kingdom over the kings of the earth"....we are told to "get out of her" before God brings her deserved punishment upon her.

Rev 17:15-18...
He said to me: “The waters that you saw, where the prostitute is sitting, mean peoples and crowds and nations and tongues. 16 And the ten horns that you saw and the wild beast, these will hate the prostitute and will make her devastated and naked, and they will eat up her flesh and completely burn her with fire. 17 For God put it into their hearts to carry out his thought, yes, to carry out their one thought by giving their kingdom to the wild beast, until the words of God will have been accomplished. 18 And the woman whom you saw means the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth.”
Rev 18:4-5..
"And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues. 5 For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice* to mind."

This harlot has been allowed to exist for a reason...to separate God's people, from the ones who serve the interests of God's enemy.

THE JWS decieve their own as have the mormons and scores of others .
And now all are uniting again to be as one under the final last hour strong delusion

What makes you think that amigo? JW's have no affiliation with Christendom or her false doctrines. We will never be found sleeping with the enemy....

RIGHT UNDER the beast , RIGHT UNDER the dragon . Folks are buying the lie . As for the lambs we BUY THE TRUTH and we SELL IT NOT .

So first we have to identify what is truth, from what appears to be truth.....the deceiver is not called such for no reason.
Those who fail the final test will have no idea that they have been deceived, until that day comes....it will be a shock to them....

Matthew 7:21-23...
“Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’"

Their miracles, their prophesies, their doing whatever they have done "in Jesus' name" will have been in vain, because they did not discern the truth about what the Bible teaches....not knowing even the basics about God's Kingdom. They were too busy defending their poorly conceived doctrines for which they have no real support in the scriptures.

What is your view of mankind's future, according to what you believe amigo? Where are we going?

 

[Aunty Jane]

I ignore that you take 144,000 Jews and make them JWs.

These are not fleshly Jews, as the scriptures clearly indicate.....Paul told us what constitute a "Jew" from God's perspective.
Romans 2:25-29...
"Circumcision is, in fact, of benefit only if you practice law; but if you are a transgressor of law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 If, therefore, an uncircumcised person keeps the righteous requirements of the Law, his uncircumcision will be counted as circumcision, will it not? 27 And the physically uncircumcised person will, by carrying out the Law, judge you who are a transgressor of law despite having its written code and circumcision. 28 For he is not a Jew who is one on the outside, nor is circumcision something on the outside, on the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one on the inside, and his circumcision is that of the heart by spirit and not by a written code. That person’s praise comes from God, not from people."

Fleshly Israel as a nation has no place in God's Kingdom. Individuals from that nation can become spiritual Jews, but they have to accept Jesus as Messiah.....as all of the first Christians did.

This is a form of replacement theology and I don’t believe it.

You don't believe that God had grounds to divorce himself from his wayward nation and replace them with those who would remain faithful and obedient? Just read the Hebrew scriptures, and also what Jesus said about the religious leaders of his day, and perhaps you will see why God had to "turn his attention to the nations (Gentiles) to take out of them a people for his name" (Acts 10:34-35)

I don’t have to defend anything I just disagree with you. I have nothing to prove to you.

No you don't...but that doesn't mean you don't have to defend what you believe....as Peter said.....
"But set Christ apart as Lord in your hearts and always be ready to give an answer to anyone who asks about the hope you possess." (1 Peter 3:15 NET)
You are given opportunities to express your hope and to bring out the scriptures to support what you believe....at least the readers here will be able to evaluate your beliefs.....as well as mine....what about them?

 

[RLT63]

The

These are not fleshly Jews, as the scriptures clearly indicate.....Paul told us what constitute a "Jew" from God's perspective.
Romans 2:25-29...
"Circumcision is, in fact, of benefit only if you practice law; but if you are a transgressor of law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 If, therefore, an uncircumcised person keeps the righteous requirements of the Law, his uncircumcision will be counted as circumcision, will it not? 27 And the physically uncircumcised person will, by carrying out the Law, judge you who are a transgressor of law despite having its written code and circumcision. 28 For he is not a Jew who is one on the outside, nor is circumcision something on the outside, on the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one on the inside, and his circumcision is that of the heart by spirit and not by a written code. That person’s praise comes from God, not from people."

Fleshly Israel as a nation has no place in God's Kingdom. Individuals from that nation can become spiritual Jews, but they have to accept Jesus as Messiah.....as all of the first Christians did.


You don't believe that God had grounds to divorce himself from his wayward nation and replace them with those who would remain faithful and obedient? Just read the Hebrew scriptures, and also what Jesus said about the religious leaders of his day, and perhaps you will see why God had to "turn his attention to the nations (Gentiles) to take out of them a people for his name" (Acts 10:34-35)


No you don't...but that doesn't mean you don't have to defend what you believe....as Peter said.....
"But set Christ apart as Lord in your hearts and always be ready to give an answer to anyone who asks about the hope you possess." (1 Peter 3:15 NET)
You are given opportunities to express your hope and to bring out the scriptures to support what you believe....at least the readers here will be able to evaluate your beliefs.....as well as mine....what about them?

144000 are first mentioned in Revelation 7:4. Then I heard the number of those who were seated: 144000 from all the tribes of Israel. When taken at face value Revelation 7:4 seems to speak of 144000 actual people living during the end times tribulation. Nothing in the passage leads to interpreting the 144000 as anything but a literal number of Jews, 12000 taken from the 12 tribes of Israel. These 144000 are sealed which means they have the special protection of God. They are kept safe from the judgements and from the Antichrist. It has been prophesied that Israel will repent and turn back to God, (Zechariah 12:10, Romans 11:25-27) and these are the first fruits (Revelation 14:4) of that redeemed Israel. Their mission is to evangelize the post rapture world and proclaim the gospel during the tribulation period. As a result of their ministry a great multitude that no one could count will be saved (Revelation 7:9), You claim that 144000 is a limit to the number of people who will reign with Christ and spend eternity with God. You say they have the heavenly hope and the rest have the earthly hope, a paradise on earth. It is true there will be people ruling in the millennium with Christ yet the Bible places no limit on this group of people. The inheritance promised to us in Christ and sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14) will become ours and we will be co-heirs with Christ (Romans 8:17)

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Seriously...how is Christ "honored" by what people do at Christmas time? Its just an excuse to over indulge in food and alcohol. The spirit of giving is lost in the expense and expectation of what should be 'received'.....its a commercial joke imposed on a gullible population who feel compelled to do what everyone else is doing and the world and its ruler laughs at them all the way to the bank.
When I tell people (particularly women) that I don't celebrate Christmas, I see envy in their eyes and also in their confessions that they wish they didn't have to.

How do the poor explain why santa is so generous to the rich kids and gives them nothing special?

Tell me what, in this day and age, Christmas promotes by way of the Christian faith? Who is honored when they can't even tell the truth about what happened at Jesus' birth? Who really were the so-called "wise men", and who sent the "star" that led them to Herod? Why were innocent babies put to death because of what they did?

How do they honor Christ with the trapping of false worship...mid-winter, false religious customs that are completely meaningless to those who live in the southern hemisphere, where its summer right now. Sleigh bells? snow....really? Evergreen trees that were thought to have magical powers when all the other trees were bare?.....these are decorated and adorn almost every home......all the native trees in my country are evergreens. Is Christmas just for Northern Hemisphere "Christians" then?

Ask the police what they think of Christmastime when alcohol fueled domestic violence goes off the Richter scale.....
Ask the children from broken families how much fun it is when their parents fight over who will spend Christmas with which family?
The world celebrates Christmas when they don't even claim to be "Christians"......most Aussies couldn't care less about Jesus....all they want is an excuse to have a holiday and to party....the more alcohol, the better. Where is the honor to Christ when what is seen is overindulgence and greed?

Those who want to celebrate what Christ really stands for can do so in the only commemoration of an anniversary that is commanded by Jesus himself when he said, "keep doing this in remembrance of me"...he was not speaking about his birth or even his resurrection......but of his death.
That is how you honor Christ...the way HE said to.

Jesus is not honored by gluttony and drunkenness. but He is honored when people glorify him in celebrating His coming to earth. Once again you use a broad brush to condemn everyone. Most abuse the holiday but many also honor Him!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Men say its made up. I say God has made his name known and always has. And Jesus promised to keep on making his Fathers name known-John 17:26.
Yes they werent sure if YHWH, or YHVH is correct. But all who know God knows he always has made his name known.

If Jesus death was the full payment for sin then why have all died and paid their own wages of sin? And why Does Acts 3:19 teach one has to repent and turn around to get sin blotted out?

YOu can say what you wish, but in this case the Bible declares you a liar! Men doie because we live in bodies of death. Because you reject a spirit and soul for man, you cannot understand teh price Jesus paid for mankind.

 

[Keiw]

YOu can say what you wish, but in this case the Bible declares you a liar! Men doie because we live in bodies of death. Because you reject a spirit and soul for man, you cannot understand teh price Jesus paid for mankind.

I just shared scriptures found in every translation on earth--its your darkness that cannot see truth.

 

[Aunty Jane]

YOu can say what you wish, but in this case the Bible declares you a liar! Men doie because we live in bodies of death. Because you reject a spirit and soul for man, you cannot understand teh price Jesus paid for mankind.

I cannot help but see that it is you who doesn’t understand the price Jesus paid....or even why he paid it the way he did......
Tell me please what you believe Jesus‘ death accomplished...and more importantly why he had to come to be born on earth as a human child and offer his life, in order to pay the required price of redemption.

Please explain the mechanics of this redemption.....

 

[amigo de christo]

That is taking a symbolic statement and trying to make it literal....how can it be literal when the elect are certainly NOT all Jewish males who are virgins.....many of the first Christians were married males and females....and many no doubt like all Jewish couples, had families....so how could they be "virgins" in the physical sense? These are "virgins" in the spiritual sense because God spoke of his people committing "adultery" when they fell to worshipping false gods.

2 Cor 11:2-3...
"For I am jealous over you with a godly jealousy, for I personally promised you in marriage to one husband that I might present you as a chaste virgin to the Christ. 3 But I am afraid that somehow, as the serpent seduced Eve by its cunning, your minds might be corrupted away from the sincerity and the chastity that are due the Christ."


Yes I think so too...but I do not believe that they are who you think them to be.
Christ's "elect" are specially chosen by God and will NOT be found among the divided churches of Christendom....they will have separated themselves as soon as they discovered the origins of Christendom's teachings.

In Revelation 17:1-2, and 18:4-5 the mystery "Babylon the great" is identified as a harlot....a city having a "kingdom over the kings of the earth"....we are told to "get out of her" before God brings her deserved punishment upon her.

Rev 17:15-18...
He said to me: “The waters that you saw, where the prostitute is sitting, mean peoples and crowds and nations and tongues. 16 And the ten horns that you saw and the wild beast, these will hate the prostitute and will make her devastated and naked, and they will eat up her flesh and completely burn her with fire. 17 For God put it into their hearts to carry out his thought, yes, to carry out their one thought by giving their kingdom to the wild beast, until the words of God will have been accomplished. 18 And the woman whom you saw means the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth.”
Rev 18:4-5..
"And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues. 5 For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice* to mind."

This harlot has been allowed to exist for a reason...to separate God's people, from the ones who serve the interests of God's enemy.

What makes you think that amigo? JW's have no affiliation with Christendom or her false doctrines. We will never be found sleeping with the enemy....

So first we have to identify what is truth, from what appears to be truth.....the deceiver is not called such for no reason.
Those who fail the final test will have no idea that they have been deceived, until that day comes....it will be a shock to them....

Matthew 7:21-23...
“Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’"

Their miracles, their prophesies, their doing whatever they have done "in Jesus' name" will have been in vain, because they did not discern the truth about what the Bible teaches....not knowing even the basics about God's Kingdom. They were too busy defending their poorly conceived doctrines for which they have no real support in the scriptures.

What is your view of mankind's future, according to what you believe amigo? Where are we going?

Seems to me anyone and everyone seem to make parts of that bible symbolic and use that symbolism
to justify their satanic leaders lie . Russell nash lied to you all . HE lied . I love you , its why i speak truth .
I know their is symbolism in the bible . But i also know when something is being made very clear .
They lied to you . Oh aunty flee that place . its not too late . Dont let it be your ruin .
The bible is our FRIEND . Dont let a lie turn you away from a holy and wonderful translation .
Russell nash did the work of the devil . Expect no apologies from me for saying that . BUT i do love you
SO pay close attention . I AINT GONNA point you to these harlot infected churches . I WILL POINT you to the BIBLE
This gen and eration is in dire trouble . Sorry about the last split up of the word generation , BUT ITS IN DIRE TROUBLE .
THEY READY TO HUG THE DEVIL . TO LOVE SATAN and accept HIM and say , OH NO ONE IS PERFECT lets just have
peace n safety , unity and love . These folks aint gonna make it . Learn that bible well . RUSSELL LIED To you all .
KJV is a GOOD BIBLE . He lied to you all . He did the work of his father the devil .

 

[Aunty Jane]

The 144000 are first mentioned in Revelation 7:4. Then I heard the number of those who were seated: 144000 from all the tribes of Israel.

Who did John understand “Israel” to be? At the end of the first century, it was clear that God had abandoned literal Israel (Matthew 23:37-39) and had chosen a new “Israel of God” who were spiritual “Jews”...not circumcised in the flesh but of the heart.

Acts 2:29-41....
“Brothers, I may say to you with confidence about the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants on his throne, he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption. This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses. Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing”. . . .

Who raised Jesus from the dead?
Who gave Jesus the promised Holy Spirit so that he could pass it on to his disciples?
When did Jesus receive the Holy Spirit?

"Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.” Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.” So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.” (ESV)

You see it is God who "made Jesus both Lord and Christ"....and the Jews when they heard Peter's words, asked what they were to do...?
What did he tell them? “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins..."
Unless there is acceptance of Jesus as Messiah, there will be no forgiveness for Israel's sins....they were told to "get saved from this crooked generation".

There is once again a "crooked and twisted generation" from which to be saved.....and unless we remove ourselves from that generation, no salvation is possible.

What the first century Jews needed to do was separate from the corrupt, prevailing religious system that was no longer the true worship of Yahweh and join themselves to the one they recognized as teaching them the truth.
The Jewish religion was twisted and distorted and divided.....so, in order to come into a new covenant with their Messiah, they had to leave that old system behind and realize that God was no longer with those faithless Jews. 2,000 years later, are the Jews any closer to recognizing Jesus as their savior? I don't think we should hold our breath.

Matthew 21:42-45...
"Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:

“‘The stone that the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone;
this was the Lord's doing,
and it is marvelous in our eyes’?

43 Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits. 44 And the one who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; and when it falls on anyone, it will crush him.”

45 When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they perceived that he was speaking about them."

Who are the "builders" who rejected "the stone"? Who had the kingdom "taken away" from them and given to those more worthy? (Acts 10:24-25; Acts 15:14)

When taken at face value Revelation 7:4 seems to speak of 144000 actual people living during the end times tribulation. Nothing in the passage leads to interpreting the 144000 as anything but a literal number of Jews, 12000 taken from the 12 tribes of Israel. These 144000 are sealed which means they have the special protection of God. They are kept safe from the judgements and from the Antichrist. It has been prophesied that Israel will repent and turn back to God, (Zechariah 12:10, Romans 11:25-27) and these are the first fruits (Revelation 14:4) of that redeemed Israel.

It was prophesied that a "remnant" of the natural Jews would be saved....that is the remnant who believed in Jesus as the Christ.
But the "Israel of God" were not just natural Jews, they were joined by a multitude of Gentiles and these replaced natural Israel whether you choose to believe that or not. (Acts 15:14)

Their mission is to evangelize the post rapture world and proclaim the gospel during the tribulation period. As a result of their ministry a great multitude that no one could count will be saved (Revelation 7:9),

Where does it say that their evangelism is only for "the post rapture world"...in fact find me the word "rapture" in the Bible....
I believe that those who believe that all Christians will suddenly disappear from the world before the tribulation begins are very much mistaken.
In his prophesy concerning the time of his return, Jesus said....
Matthew 24:15-22...
“Therefore, when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken about by Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place (let the reader use discernment), 16 then let those in Ju·deʹa begin fleeing to the mountains. 17 Let the man on the housetop not come down to take the goods out of his house, 18 and let the man in the field not return to pick up his outer garment. 19 Woe to the pregnant women and those nursing a baby in those days! 20 Keep praying that your flight may not occur in wintertime nor on the Sabbath day; 21 for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. 22 In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short."

Who was Jesus talking to?
What is the "disgusting thing" that stands in "a holy place"?
What was the tribulation of those days that was imminent?
Why did the Jewish Christians need to "flee to the mountains"?
Where did they go and what became of them?

This prophesy has a dual fulfillment....the first time on the Jewish system that was about to be destroyed, with the Roman legions standing in God's temple, as Jesus said, not leaving a stone upon a stone......and Jesus indicated a number of similarities with the time of his return.
So what is the disgusting thing standing in a holy place today?

You claim that 144000 is a limit to the number of people who will reign with Christ and spend eternity with God. You say they have the heavenly hope and the rest have the earthly hope, a paradise on earth. It is true there will be people ruling in the millennium with Christ yet the Bible places no limit on this group of people. The inheritance promised to us in Christ and sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14) will become ours and we will be co-heirs with Christ (Romans 8:17)

You are reading way more into scripture than it actually says....
Those called to be "heirs with Christ" are a limited number because those ruling are always a minority, ruling over a majority. That is what a "KINGDOM" is...a "king" and his "dom"ain.
What is God's Kingdom and what does it accomplish? Can you tell me according to the Bible's overall theme?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Seems to me anyone and everyone seem to make parts of that bible symbolic and use that symbolism
to justify their satanic leaders lie . Russell nash lied to you all . HE lied . I love you , its why i speak truth .
I know their is symbolism in the bible .

Amigo, I don't know any Russel Nash....so he has certainly not lied to me or my brotherhood. You see when you go making accusations, you actually have to have your facts straight....otherwise all you do is spread unfounded gossip.
There is definitely symbolism in the Bible, but we have to know what is, and what isn't, literal.

But i also know when something is being made very clear .
They lied to you . Oh aunty flee that place . its not too late . Dont let it be your ruin .
The bible is our FRIEND . Dont let a lie turn you away from a holy and wonderful translation .

I haven't amigo.....I searched for God in my youth and did not find him in any of Christendom's denominations......I evaluated their doctrines very carefully, and found them ALL to be false. You don't think the devil would leave any stone unturned to promote his deceptions do you? Yet I see you have not made your own exit from Christendom, complete...you still hang onto much of what they teach, as if it was ever the truth.....

Russell nash did the work of the devil . Expect no apologies from me for saying that . BUT i do love you
SO pay close attention . I AINT GONNA point you to these harlot infected churches . I WILL POINT you to the BIBLE
This gen and eration is in dire trouble . Sorry about the last split up of the word generation , BUT ITS IN DIRE TROUBLE .
THEY READY TO HUG THE DEVIL . TO LOVE SATAN and accept HIM and say , OH NO ONE IS PERFECT lets just have
peace n safety , unity and love . These folks aint gonna make it . Learn that bible well . RUSSELL LIED To you all .
KJV is a GOOD BIBLE . He lied to you all . He did the work of his father the devil .

I have rejected all that satan has dished up to people as his counterfeit "Christianity"....in fact there is nothing that I have not studied thoroughly and I am no more ready to hug the devil than you are....but my separation is complete.....I "touch nothing unclean" in my worship....and that goes for the KJV as well. It is a most biased translation, but one that I studied originally when I was searching for God.
I got to see first hand how flawed it is in its translation, so I avoid it these days. No one speaks archaic English anymore, and the KJV just causes confusion where there doesn't need to be any. It is not a Bible written by God, as many seem to imagine......but it was translated by men with an agenda...to promote Christendom' doctrines. I will not promote any of them, knowing where they all came from...the one source....the "weeds" of Jesus' parable. How many of the doctrines you hold were formulated by the RCC?

It isn't the Bible that is at fault, but the men who supposedly translated God's words into English. I have put the Greek texts to the test and found the KJV and many other translations wanting.

We all have choices amigo, and I made mine 50 years ago....I have never wavered in my faith and I am secure in the knowledge I have gained in that time of deep study. I am "no part of this world" as Jesus said....and no part of the devil's counterfeit faith that Jesus warned would be sown "while men were sleeping".

Hebrews 4:12-13...
"For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul and spirit, and of joints from the marrow, and is able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart. 13 And there is not a creation that is hidden from his sight, but all things are naked and openly exposed to the eyes of the one to whom we must give an account."

I will take that to the bank....

 

[RLT63]

Who did John understand “Israel” to be? At the end of the first century, it was clear that God had abandoned literal Israel (Matthew 23:37-39) and had chosen a new “Israel of God” who were spiritual “Jews”...not circumcised in the flesh but of the heart.

Acts 2:29-41....
“Brothers, I may say to you with confidence about the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants on his throne, he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption. This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses. Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing”. . . .

Who raised Jesus from the dead?
Who gave Jesus the promised Holy Spirit so that he could pass it on to his disciples?
When did Jesus receive the Holy Spirit?

"Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.” Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.” So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.” (ESV)

You see it is God who "made Jesus both Lord and Christ"....and the Jews when they heard Peter's words, asked what they were to do...?
What did he tell them? “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins..."
Unless there is acceptance of Jesus as Messiah, there will be no forgiveness for Israel's sins....they were told to "get saved from this crooked generation".

There is once again a "crooked and twisted generation" from which to be saved.....and unless we remove ourselves from that generation, no salvation is possible.

What the first century Jews needed to do was separate from the corrupt, prevailing religious system that was no longer the true worship of Yahweh and join themselves to the one they recognized as teaching them the truth.
The Jewish religion was twisted and distorted and divided.....so, in order to come into a new covenant with their Messiah, they had to leave that old system behind and realize that God was no longer with those faithless Jews. 2,000 years later, are the Jews any closer to recognizing Jesus as their savior? I don't think we should hold our breath.

Matthew 21:42-45...
"Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:

“‘The stone that the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone;
this was the Lord's doing,
and it is marvelous in our eyes’?

43 Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits. 44 And the one who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; and when it falls on anyone, it will crush him.”

45 When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they perceived that he was speaking about them."

Who are the "builders" who rejected "the stone"? Who had the kingdom "taken away" from them and given to those more worthy? (Acts 10:24-25; Acts 15:14)

It was prophesied that a "remnant" of the natural Jews would be saved....that is the remnant who believed in Jesus as the Christ.
But the "Israel of God" were not just natural Jews, they were joined by a multitude of Gentiles and these replaced natural Israel whether you choose to believe that or not. (Acts 15:14)

Where does it say that their evangelism is only for "the post rapture world"...in fact find me the word "rapture" in the Bible....
I believe that those who believe that all Christians will suddenly disappear from the world before the tribulation begins are very much mistaken.
In his prophesy concerning the time of his return, Jesus said....
Matthew 24:15-22...
“Therefore, when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken about by Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place (let the reader use discernment), 16 then let those in Ju·deʹa begin fleeing to the mountains. 17 Let the man on the housetop not come down to take the goods out of his house, 18 and let the man in the field not return to pick up his outer garment. 19 Woe to the pregnant women and those nursing a baby in those days! 20 Keep praying that your flight may not occur in wintertime nor on the Sabbath day; 21 for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. 22 In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short."

Who was Jesus talking to?
What is the "disgusting thing" that stands in "a holy place"?
What was the tribulation of those days that was imminent?
Why did the Jewish Christians need to "flee to the mountains"?
Where did they go and what became of them?

This prophesy has a dual fulfillment....the first time on the Jewish system that was about to be destroyed, with the Roman legions standing in God's temple, as Jesus said, not leaving a stone upon a stone......and Jesus indicated a number of similarities with the time of his return.
So what is the disgusting thing standing in a holy place today?

You are reading way more into scripture than it actually says....
Those called to be "heirs with Christ" are a limited number because those ruling are always a minority, ruling over a majority. That is what a "KINGDOM" is...a "king" and his "dom"ain.
What is God's Kingdom and what does it accomplish? Can you tell me according to the Bible's overall theme?

Romans 11:16-24