Are Jehovah's witnesses real Christians?

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Peterlag

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All Christians are flesh Pete, even anointed ones. All of us put on the new personality, evolving from the works of the flesh, to more prominence of having the fruitages of the spirit. Gal 5:19-23

Maybe your flesh is alive. My flesh was crucified with Christ.
 

Aunty Jane

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So, what you're saying is, you're guilty of replacement theology. Christians are to be Witnesses of Jesus, Acts 1:8
Replacement theology is scriptural....all you have to do is read the Hebrew scriptures to see why God abandoned them as his people.

Romans 2:23-24...
"You who boast in the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? 24 For, as it is written: The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you."

Exodus 32:9-10...
"The Lord also said to Moses: “I have seen this people, and they are indeed a stiff-necked people. 10 Now leave Me alone, so that My anger can burn against them and I can destroy them. Then I will make you into a great nation.”

Exodus 19:5-6...
"Now if you will listen to Me and carefully keep My covenant, you will be My own possession out of all the peoples, although all the earth is Mine, 6 and you will be My kingdom of priests and My holy nation.’ "

Matthew 21:42-45...
Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:

The stone that the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone.

This came from the Lord
and is wonderful in our eyes?

43 Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a nation producing its fruit. . . . .

45 When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard His parables, they knew He was speaking about them."


Acts 15:14...
"Simeon [Peter] has reported how God first intervened to take from the Gentiles a people for His name."

Acts 10:34-35...
" Then Peter began to speak: “Now I really understand that God doesn’t show favoritism, 35 but in every nation the person who fears Him and does righteousness is acceptable to Him."

Galatians 6:16...
" May peace come to all those who follow this standard, and mercy to the Israel of God!"

The Jews could never live up to their covenant with God, but Jehovah always lived up to his obligation, according to the promise he made to Abraham, that his seed would produce the Messiah. After that was accomplished, and the Jews had him murdered, Jehovah had no more obligation to keep a covenant that Israel never did. He abandoned the Jews as the serial covenant breakers that they had always been.
The Jews were Jehovah's Witnesses, that's who the Isaiah Scripture was attributed too. When Jesus was on earth, he came to bear witness to Jehovah. But he specifically stated to his disciples, "Ye shall be MY witnesses."
Jehovah has always had his witnesses.....Jesus was the foremost witness of Jehovah and we are to be his footstep followers. (1 Peter 2:21)
One cannot be a witness for Jesus without being a witness for the one he taught his disciples to worship...."the only true God". (John 17:3) Everything Jesus did promoted the Father, not himself.
But as you say in your personal quote: "What I post is my opinion only. I love a good Bible discussion."
It is my opinion.....and it is also my life's work to carefully study the scripture and allow them to tell the story....not the contrived doctrines that came out of the Roman Catholic church.
 

Robert Gwin

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How many me’s are there?
Billions throughout history sir, but what has that to do with the post? Perhaps I best post it again: Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
 

Robert Gwin

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Claiming one isn’t doesn’t simplify, it complicates & confuses unnecessarily.
I do understand that the Bible sometime can be complicated and confusing, but I think in this instance it is fairly easy to understand Phil. What part of that passage did you not understand sir?
 

Robert Gwin

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Pay attention this time, I won't write the answer again! The reason why His name does not appear in any version, is because it does not appear in any of the extant manuscripts! If you have proof otherwise- show it. but the divine name is not in any of the NT manuscripts.
Hi Ron, welcome back sir! Did you enjoy your vacation? It's in the NWT, and a few others sir. We disagree on this point, I say God's name that He personally revealed and said would be His name forever is still God's name, and at the very least when quoting Hebrew Scriptures in the NT, and it was there originally, I would not recommend altering it Ron. Why did your translators not render it the same way it was written?
 

-Phil

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Billions throughout history sir, but what has that to do with the post? Perhaps I best post it again: Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
“I am the way, and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through ‘billions throughout history’...?

Why not leave the quote as is?
Why reinterpret?
Is simply says - me.
I do understand that the Bible sometime can be complicated and confusing, but I think in this instance it is fairly easy to understand Phil. What part of that passage did you not understand sir?
What was said was the ‘claiming one isn’t doesn’t simplify, it complicates & confuses unnecessarily’.
Not ‘The Bible is complicated and confusing’.

The bible is as simple & straightforward as the quote.
 
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Robert Gwin

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That is correct. So when Gen. 2 was actually happening, the divine name was not known! God did not give His name until He told it to Moses. and I have come to the conclusion that it is actually not His name but just a simple declaration of who He is! When Moses asked, God said I am who I am! Tel them YH sent you. God is who He is!
Yes sir it was known, obviously Adam would have known and spread it down. Although I am not sure that it is recorded that Adam said it, Eve used it sir:
(Genesis 4:1) . . .Adam had sexual relations with his wife Eve, and she became pregnant. When she gave birth to Cain, she said: “I have produced a male child with the help of Jehovah.. . Others used it as well:
(Genesis 4:26) . . .There was also born to Seth a son, and he named him Eʹnosh. At that time people began calling on the name of Jehovah.
(Genesis 9:24-26) . . .When Noah woke up from his wine and learned what his youngest son had done to him, 25 he said: “Cursed be Caʹnaan. Let him become the lowest slave to his brothers.” 26 And he added: “Praised be Jehovah, the God of Shem,. . .

There are many more examples of men calling on and using His name prior to the writing of Genesis, so yes His name was used way prior Ron.
 

Robert Gwin

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And yet you have stumbled upon it.

That explanation does not change the Oneness of God and His image. But rather explains how we too are to be included, not by remaining separate, but by our coming into Him and His coming into us. That is not where you left it, but it is where Jesus left it. Therefore I have told you the same thing.
I agree with your conclusion pretty much Scott, all Christians are in the oneness with God, one flock under one shepherd sir.
 
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Robert Gwin

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So, what you're saying is, you're guilty of replacement theology. Christians are to be Witnesses of Jesus, Acts 1:8

"But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come on you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” - Holman

But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” - NKJV

"But you will receive power when the holy spirit comes upon you, and you will be witnesses of me in Jerusalem, in all Ju·deʹa and Sa·marʹi·a, and to the most distant part of the earth.” - NWT
Don't know anything about "replacement theology" sir, but we did enter into a new covenant then. God kept the law covenant in force till the end of the week, or in other words till 36 CE to help those who were under law to accept the new arrangement for God's people.
 

Peterlag

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You are the best looking dead man I have ever seen sir!

The spiritual part of every Christian has literally and actually been crucified, buried, and raised with Christ. The fact that this occurs spiritually and not physically doesn’t make it any less real.
 
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ScottA

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The scripture provided explains that the “oneness” has to do with unity of belief and purpose....all of God’s worshippers need to be on ‘the same page’...to be fully aware of who God is....who Jesus is...and what it means to be “ONE” with them.
That is certainly true of one betrothed, but consider the full marriage relationship (as it is written): The two become One.

So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”​
The one who is the “image” of his Father (Colossians 1:15) is not the same person as his Father, who is also his God. (John 20:17)
Even in heaven the resurrected Jesus still calls his Father “my God” (Revelation 3:12).....please explain how that is possible....does God worship himself?
If you yourself were to tell your own story third person, would the author of your story not be you?

In the case of God the matter is not that elementary but rather the revelation of matters of actual life and death and the unmixable natures of both Light and darkness, which men have not yet even fully imagined. Who then is on that "same page" and of that same mind, and who shall be?
 

Ronald Nolette

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Hi Ron, welcome back sir! Did you enjoy your vacation? It's in the NWT, and a few others sir. We disagree on this point, I say God's name that He personally revealed and said would be His name forever is still God's name, and at the very least when quoting Hebrew Scriptures in the NT, and it was there originally, I would not recommend altering it Ron. Why did your translators not render it the same way it was written?
THE NWT is not an original manuscript. Frail imperfect men, added teh divine name where they thought appropriate. That makes teh NWT what is known as a dynamic translation (akin to a paraphrase) and not an actual translation.

But the issue is that it does not appear in any of the manuscripts from which all bibles were copied from. Not one of teh inspired writers of the NT used the divine name. And you should know that.

So you have a real problem with the inspired writers of the NT. They did not write the divine name, so you are implicitly chiding and rebuking them for not doing so when they quoted the OT.
 
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Ronald Nolette

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Yes sir it was known, obviously Adam would have known and spread it down. Although I am not sure that it is recorded that Adam said it, Eve used it sir:
(Genesis 4:1) . . .Adam had sexual relations with his wife Eve, and she became pregnant. When she gave birth to Cain, she said: “I have produced a male child with the help of Jehovah.. . Others used it as well:
(Genesis 4:26) . . .There was also born to Seth a son, and he named him Eʹnosh. At that time people began calling on the name of Jehovah.
(Genesis 9:24-26) . . .When Noah woke up from his wine and learned what his youngest son had done to him, 25 he said: “Cursed be Caʹnaan. Let him become the lowest slave to his brothers.” 26 And he added: “Praised be Jehovah, the God of Shem,. . .

There are many more examples of men calling on and using His name prior to the writing of Genesis, so yes His name was used way prior Ron.

So the chosen people of God forgot all about His name according to you! And did not remember it again until God gave it to Moses? Now you are living in fantasy land.

Moses spent over 40 years with the Israelites and the priests and righteous souls. Now you are saying not one of them knew teh divine name?

And no it is not obvious that Adam knew the divine name and passed it down. That is your conclusion based on human reasoning and not biblical evidence
 

RR144

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The Jews could never live up to their covenant with God, but Jehovah always lived up to his obligation, according to the promise he made to Abraham, that his seed would produce the Messiah. After that was accomplished, and the Jews had him murdered, Jehovah had no more obligation to keep a covenant that Israel never did. He abandoned the Jews as the serial covenant breakers that they had always been.
Didn't Jehovah say in Psalm 89:34 "My covenant I will not break, Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips." Would not keeping His covenant to the Fleshly Israel constitute a "break" in that covenant? Would not substitution Fleshing Israel to a Spiritual Israel constitute an ALTERation of said covenant?

Did not Jesus Himself say to the Samaritan woman "salvation is from the Jews." (John 4:22)
 

Aunty Jane

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Didn't Jehovah say in Psalm 89:34 "My covenant I will not break, Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips." Would not keeping His covenant to the Fleshly Israel constitute a "break" in that covenant?
On what basis was the covenant made? It was on the basis of Israel's obedience to the commands and laws of their God, which they willingly entered into of their own volition. (Exodus 19:6-8)
God kept to his part of the covenant by producing their Messiah as he promised Abraham. And once he had done so, he gave Israel exclusive opportunity to accept Jesus as "the one" for three and a half years.....but, not only did the majority reject him...they orchestrated his murder. (Matthew 27:25) They cursed themselves with his blood.

So on the night before his death, Jesus instituted a new covenant which made the old covenant obsolete. This was prophesied by Jeremiah.

Jeremiah 31:31-34...
“Look! The days are coming,” declares Jehovah, “when I will make with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah a new covenant. 32 It will not be like the covenant that I made with their forefathers on the day I took hold of their hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, ‘my covenant that they broke, although I was their true master,’ declares Jehovah.
33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares Jehovah. “I will put my law within them, and in their heart I will write it. And I will become their God, and they will become my people.”


This is spiritual Israel, who were to "become" Jehovah's people...not the covenant breakers who supposedly, already were.
Would not substitution Fleshing Israel to a Spiritual Israel constitute an ALTERation of said covenant?
No...for all the reasons just outlined. God had fulfilled his part of the covenant and it was finished.
Did not Jesus Himself say to the Samaritan woman "salvation is from the Jews." (John 4:22)
Salvation did begin with the Jews, but by no means was it to finish with them, as the covenant with Abraham had stated....

Genesis 22:17-18....to Abraham God said....
"I will surely bless you and I will surely multiply your offspring like the stars of the heavens and like the grains of sand on the seashore, and your offspring will take possession of the gate of his enemies. 18 And by means of your offspring all nations of the earth will obtain a blessing for themselves because you have listened to my voice.’”

"All the nations" were to receive a blessing from God because of God's promise to produce the seed. Jesus did not come to die for just the Jews...he came to die for all obedient mankind.
 
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