You Probably Believe This Lie

[ScottA]

would it be a fair statement to say you can be in sin no matter and still be saved? lets say a homosexual was saved then went right back into his same sexual encounters // i am just using this as a example. this is why the opposition to eternal security. our salvation is secure but with out repentance is that salvation..?

In order to answer and have it actually understood, one needs to understand God. Most people look at everything through the lens of their own life perspective and that of the created world--which is not at all the correct way to understand the things of God and the kingdom of God wherein there is no sin--it's totally out of context, and therefore full of error.

What actually occurs when salvation comes to a person living in the world is, in the twinkling of an eye they go from being of the world to not being of the world. Thus Paul addressed the exception to the Old Testament understanding that says that salvation only comes after death, to include what happens when salvation comes according to the New Testament way of being born again while in the flesh and in the world--referring to the status of such people as "we who are alive and remain." Meaning, such a person "has (past tense) passed from death to life", that is from existing only in time, to also existing in eternity, while remaining in the world, but no longer be of the world. And if you can follow all that--it means salvation is finished, because time is finished with the person being "in God" from that very moment. The time then that such people experience after salvation--is just as it is written, "it is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me." Who then can call Christ as sinner and be correct? No one, but one who is anti-Christ.

But I said, "If you can follow all that." If one cannot follow all that, it is because God has not revealed it to them--which is to say that the Holy Spirit is restrained because of unbelief, and grieved. Such people remain without understanding by their own limitations, prisoners of their own making--believing rather that God who has said many things about salvation being according to the "I am" nature of God, instead believe all that is written of those who do not believe, which is also written...because they are many.

As for sins witnessed by those who are saved--everything leading up to the salvation of Christ which came not at the beginning or the end of times is covered forward just as it is covered backward. But again, if one does not understand God, it will not seem so, for they have yet to come to terms with the idea that God is "the same yesterday, today, and forever", and that when He comes bringing salvation to one at any point in history--it is the same, it is finished.

As for homosexual sin or any other sin after salvation, one goes from loving sin to loving God and hating sin; and when and if God has decided that such a person is to remain alive in the flesh to host Christ in him, he is carried to the finish by the power of God in Christ. On the other hand, if such a one continues to love sin--he is not saved, for no one who loves God loves sin.

 

[Jim B]

excuse me ? your reply is ABSURD i was willing to enter a adult discussion on the subject.. but as usual there is that one that is the very reason the subject can not be discussed .

Why did you choose the example of a homosexual? Why not use the example of a thief or an alcoholic or ..? Then, in the next post, you write "i can not judge anyone who is saved" yet that is exactly what you are doing.

If a person comes to Christ, that doesn't mean that they will immediately change their behavior. If God forgives and loves those who turn to Him, why can't you?

 

[Ezra]

Why did you choose the example of a homosexual?

are you offended ? it makes me wonder

 

[Jim B]

are you offended ? it makes me wonder

Nice try. You didn't answer my question. Why did you choose the example of a homosexual?

 

[Ezra]

On the other hand, if such a one continues to love sin--he is not saved, for no one who loves God loves sin.

true but at what point? lets shell down the corn i was listening to jack graham on the radio.. he said something to the point you cant be sinning and make it to heaven then in the next few mins he said but you cant lose your salvation . i am not arguing against i am saying one needs make sure they know that they know beyond a shadow of doubt i1 john 1:9 tell us to confess. the confess is our point and yes it does say we have a advocate if we sin.. as afr as i am concerned we will take care of our part if we sin.. if we do not take care of our sin then there could be a question to if we really was

 

[Ezra]

Nice try. You didn't answer my question. Why did you choose the example of a homosexual?

BECAUSE I WANTED TO answer mine are you offended? btw its not a try is being homosexual on your list of thing not to discuss ?

 

[ScottA]

true but at what point? lets shell down the corn i was listening to jack graham on the radio.. he said something to the point you cant be sinning and make it to heaven then in the next few mins he said but you cant lose your salvation . i am not arguing against i am saying one needs make sure they know that they know beyond a shadow of doubt i1 john 1:9 tell us to confess. the confess is our point and yes it does say we have a advocate if we sin.. as afr as i am concerned we will take care of our part if we sin.. if we do not take care of our sin then there could be a question to if we really was

It is that point between "I was" and now "I am"--meaning, when "it is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me." Which is that rapturous moment of change.

That moment comes to different people differently, but it is always at least with an inner "Wow!"

Example: I lived for 7 years on Maui. For the first few years I called where I was from "home" without so much as a thought. Then on one return trip back to Maui after visiting people I had just days before said I had come "home" to see them--I turn to leave and said, "I am going home" speaking of Maui...meaning where I now called "home" had just changed in me--and it stopped me in my tracks--"Wow, I just said that!"

 

[Brakelite]

KJV 1 Corinthians 10:1-12
1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

 

[Bob Estey]

Amen to that brother ....

Is Sparks warm today?

Not too bad. It's been a cold fall, but now it's warming. How about Birmingham?

 

[Brakelite]

I don’t Confuse Fruit—- I know “ Exactly “ what it is.....it is something that occurs naturally as a result of the Indwelling Holy Spirit

Correct. You weren't saying that before though. You missed the part where you said branches are burnt but are still saved. In other words, you see the branches as fruit, and not the person. It is the person who is a branch, and if he doesn't bear fruit, he will be burnt. The reason he doesn't bear fruit is because he doesn't abide in Jesus... The true Vine. He was in Jesus at one point, he was a believer, but he didn't abide.. Remain... In Him. He left off from believing. He stopped trusting. And as a result he bore no fruit, and therefore couldn't be saved from the negative side of the harvest. Fruitless branches cast off and burnt up. Like the fruitless fig tree. Lots of pretentious leaves but nothing to show for them. And as you rightly pointed out below...

Sometimes these Fruits may take years to manifest themselves and very often the fruits are there but they are not so obviously seen by others...Such Fruit would be where a hard- hearted man becomes more like a puppy- dog as time goes by, or a man filled with anger and resentment or jealousy finds peace in his heart..... a stingy person might become generous ....it dies not Akways take the firm of aman putting a cigarette or a beer bottle down

Those fruit all are evidence of a relationship with Jesus. Jesus cannot say to these ones, I never knew you. The fruit were character. Evidence of salvation. I would however suggest that the tobacco and the alcohol would be among the first things discarded, as they are more public and more prone to adversely affect relationships with others and spoil testimony. These are things Jesus attends to before most others. Addictions.

Good Works or Good Fruits are gifts from God and can’t be forced or imitated....People that force themselves to come up with “ good Fruit” to impress others ( especially to impress their “ religious” buddies) or try to do good things in order to “GET” Saved or do good things in order to “ STAY” Saved are the ones performing “ Dead Works” .....these Works are Useless as far as obtaining Heavenly Rewards and they are the things being thrown into the fire , figuratively speaking.....

Preaching to the choir.

The only “People” getting thrown into any fires are the Unbelievers

You think there are no Christians who don't have faith? Ultimate salvation is conditional. As I pointed out in the post above. Israel is our example. When they left Egypt they were saved. Baptized, feed of the Spirit of Jesus, sanctified by His word, given the law, and all the provisions necessary to forgiveness... The blood. Their entrance into Canaan however, despite all their advantages, was conditional. And only two of the original million or more made it. Joshua and Caleb. The rest died in the wilderness. Why? Unbelief and disobedience and sin. Take great care when stating Christians can still be saved despite unbelief, disobedience and sin. The whole gospel is founded on the freeing of God's people from those evils, not saving them in sin and unbelief, but saving them from sin and unbelief. That doesn't mean we will all be perfectly sinless when Jesus comes. But it does mean we won't be excusing, entertaining, relishing, actively encouraging sin and worldliness... As some on this forum are prone to do. Remember, Paul said Israel is our example. Israel failed, repetitively and constantly, and their house was left into them desolate.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

In order to believe the Lie that you can lose your Salvation , you must first believe the additional Lie that you Earned your Salvation....

Well said.

To believe the Lie that one can LOSE salvation, one must first believe the conditional Lie that he EARNED Salvation.

 

[Scott Downey]

Correct. You weren't saying that before though. You missed the part where you said branches are burnt but are still saved. In other words, you see the branches as fruit, and not the person. It is the person who is a branch, and if he doesn't bear fruit, he will be burnt. The reason he doesn't bear fruit is because he doesn't abide in Jesus... The true Vine. He was in Jesus at one point, he was a believer, but he didn't abide.. Remain... In Him. He left off from believing. He stopped trusting. And as a result he bore no fruit, and therefore couldn't be saved from the negative side of the harvest. Fruitless branches cast off and burnt up. Like the fruitless fig tree. Lots of pretentious leaves but nothing to show for them. And as you rightly pointed out below...

Those fruit all are evidence of a relationship with Jesus. Jesus cannot say to these ones, I never knew you. The fruit were character. Evidence of salvation. I would however suggest that the tobacco and the alcohol would be among the first things discarded, as they are more public and more prone to adversely affect relationships with others and spoil testimony. These are things Jesus attends to before most others. Addictions.

Preaching to the choir.

You think there are no Christians who don't have faith? Ultimate salvation is conditional. As I pointed out in the post above. Israel is our example. When they left Egypt they were saved. Baptized, feed of the Spirit of Jesus, sanctified by His word, given the law, and all the provisions necessary to forgiveness... The blood. Their entrance into Canaan however, despite all their advantages, was conditional. And only two of the original million or more made it. Joshua and Caleb. The rest died in the wilderness. Why? Unbelief and disobedience and sin. Take great care when stating Christians can still be saved despite unbelief, disobedience and sin. The whole gospel is founded on the freeing of God's people from those evils, not saving them in sin and unbelief, but saving them from sin and unbelief. That doesn't mean we will all be perfectly sinless when Jesus comes. But it does mean we won't be excusing, entertaining, relishing, actively encouraging sin and worldliness... As some on this forum are prone to do. Remember, Paul said Israel is our example. Israel failed, repetitively and constantly, and their house was left into them desolate.

".. The true Vine. He was in Jesus at one point, he was a believer, but he didn't abide.. Remain... In Him."

Yes but of what creation is a man? The old creation or the new creation?
All people are created by Christ, but they cannot remain in the Vine if they do not believe, they are cut off.
This is another good reason to believe infants and young children are actually saved, as they are in the VINE when born. But when they sin against God, they are cut off. Burned branches are burned as they get tossed into the fire, which is hell, so no such branches are unsaved.

Or are you one of those who believe in Infant Damnation?

 

[bluedragon]

Not too bad. It's been a cold fall, but now it's warminrg. How about Birmingham?

Cold .... I lived in Cheyenne, WY Syracuse, NY. .....where cold is expected .....but here on the mountain range arround Birmingham, 11 degrees is cold .......we'll start warming on Monday ....

 

[rockytopva]

-2*F this morning here in Blacksburg.

 

[bluedragon]

-2*F this morning here in Blacksburg.

When I lived in Wyoming. I got talked into going duck hunting one year. 3 AM stepped out to get into the truck and was slammed by the cold .....We picked up the other two guys and headed north to Lusk, WY. Hunted from a duck blind all morning .....finally decided we had enough, got back into the truck and headed home to Cheyenne ....We had the radio on and found out why the ducks were not flying ....... -26 F no wind chill. Duck Hunters were freezing to death in their blinds from Montana down to Texas ....Ducks were lucky that day ....they weren't flying and we weren't shooting ...

It took the remiander of the day to get somewhere close to warm ....

 

[bbyrd009]

Not too bad. It's been a cold fall, but now it's warming. How about Birmingham?

you live in Sparks NV Bob?

 

[Bob Estey]

you live in Sparks NV Bob?

Yes. Moved over here from Reno about a year ago - just a few blocks from my church.

 

[bluedragon]

Yes. Moved over here from Reno about a year ago - just a few blocks from my church.

Walking distance? Good move ....

Silly question ....In the summer, do you carry a bottle of water to make it there and back? Sweat evaporates in dry heat ...

 

[Gospel Believer]

These are things Jesus attends to before most others. Addictions.


Before I get started on the rest....I have seen personally that many, if not most times—- being rescued from addictions is the Last thing that gets taken care of...

I would maintain that inner personality changes, such as bitterness, hatefulness , the basic hardness of a soul are more important than snuffing out a cigarette that ultimately hurts nobody but the smoker....

I have worked with individuals that have turned to God and got Saved and they have been changed from spiteful and hard- hearted men to puppy dogs.....they still smoked....who cares?

 

[rockytopva]

I am a single man brought up in a Pentecostal Holiness world. There was a yearly routine that was followed religiously…

1. Mo-Fr – Work hard at some public job
2. Saturday – Go to town Saturday morning and work in the PM
3. Saturday PM – Prayer meetings
4. Sunday – Church AM and a wonderful meal PM
5. Spring – Prepare for a large garden
6. Summer – Garden including putting up hay
7. Fall – Saw trees and prepare firewood for winter
8. Revivals - All through the year.

Not a bad life. I worked my way up to lab technician and am making good money. The women here, though, think I am too strict. I did meet a Christian woman and we started getting close. But the more that woman talked… I finally told her, “You know you can’t do those things and go to heaven!” And she… Being Baptist, replies… “Are you trying to threaten my salvation?” And the relationship went down from there.

If you’re going to do evil… Oh yea… I will most certainly threaten your salvation!