Doctrinal Clarity or vagueness?

[Wrangler]

What a surprise that you pull the rug out from under me. 1st, you ask me (us) to explain it to you. So, I reluctantly and humbly explain after being prompted ...

I will listen if you explain ... We are listening.

Then, you pretend like you never really wanted an explanation from me to begin with but someone else.

And here we all are wasting so much time saying, Lord, explain the parable to us…

So, that begs the question, why did you ask me to explain it to you if you really wanted someone else to explain it to you?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

What a surprise that you pull the rug out from under me. 1st, you ask me (us) to explain it to you. So, I reluctantly and humbly explain after being prompted ...



Then, you pretend like you never really wanted an explanation from me to begin with but someone else.



So, that begs the question, why did you ask me to explain it to you if you really wanted someone else to explain it to you?

Oh my gosh, I can’t with you any more right now.

 

[Wrangler]

Oh my gosh, I can’t with you any more right now.

Well,

 

[Triumph1300]

Wow, some of you are sure making this parable a complicated issue.
What I get out of it is... be ready.....
Be ready, waiting and wise.
Simple enough to understand.
But....hey....who am I by keeping things simple...;-)

 

[ScottA]

That's right! Taking words out of context to apply it in a difference sense is precisely what the OP is referring to. When one is talking about he who is without sin, cast the 1st stone, we are talking about stoning. This word "can be" taken in the sense of getting high from drugs. This is the kind of word games you routinely play. You do this to make an unrelated point to what is being discussed.

That is nothing more than you venting your own pet peeve.

What you have described of biblical context...is not even biblical. Example: David wrote Psalm 22 as one who suffered and cried out to his God, which was the original context...and hundreds of years later Jesus quoted them out of David's original context, to be included in Jesus' context--the very reason it was first written, and for hundreds of years would have only been understood to be in the context of David.

So...peeve away--but it is of no service, not a job well done.

 

[Wrangler]

That is nothing more than you venting your own pet peeve.

In deference to dualism, it is both.

As Freud once said; "sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar." And Ps 22 was not taken out of context by Jesus. The Psalms don't have context.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Wow, some of you are sure making this parable a complicated issue.
What I get out of it is... be ready.....
Be ready, waiting and wise.
Simple enough to understand.
But....hey....who am I by keeping things simple...;-)

Really? i think even an unbeliever could understand it then. What of, it’s given you to understand the parables, but not everyone. Has that now changed to, it’s given to the whole world to understand the parables? Every human on earth can now quite simply understand, have the eyes to see?

He explained one and a disciple wrote it. The field is the world, etc.
And another, the harvesters are angels, etc.
And another, the seed is this, the soil is that.

But the ones not explained suddenly have no searching and asking to understand? In them, oil is just temporal oil, seed is just temporal seed? Prison is just a temporal prison? A talent is just temporal money?

Does that really seem probable to you? I mean, the very fact that He spoke warnings concerning money and then teaches about increasing temporal money and making worldly interest as what He desires us to do…?
No more depth to the words from God than temporal meanings?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I just don’t understand the insistence that there are no more riches to be unearthed and the parables mean only what a human mind can see. There’s a dullness that thinks men have fully explained and taught them the riches of the Kingdom of God? No one needs the Holy Spirit to teach them that oil means just temporal oil. How does one wind up in that kind of…dull apathy?

 

[Mr E]

I just don’t understand the insistence that there are no more riches to be unearthed and the parables mean only what a human mind can see. There’s a dullness that thinks men have fully explained and taught them the riches of the Kingdom of God? No one needs the Holy Spirit to teach them that oil means just temporal oil. How does one wind up in that kind of…dull apathy?

That’s a ridiculous idea and not anything I hold to. The parables by nature have a dual meaning, one evident (physical) and the other hidden (spiritual).

 

[stunnedbygrace]

To one He gives a word of knowledge, to another a word of wisdom…for the building up of the whole. What for? We already understand it all, so words of wisdom or knowledge are not necessary for our building up. They’ve been done away with? We are rich and in need of nothing? Where is the God of Paul, who healed the sick from a handkerchief he had touched?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

That’s a ridiculous idea and not anything I hold to. The parables by nature have a dual meaning, one evident (physical) and the other hidden (spiritual).

What does the oil represent then?
The physical meaning means be careful to pay your electric bill and the spiritual meaning is…?

 

[Mr E]

What does the oil represent then?
The physical meaning means be careful to pay your electric bill and the spiritual meaning is…?

Did you take a few minutes to read the references I gave you? Rev 2 and 3..... Zechariah 4?

It becomes unmistakable, but if after doing your own looking you still have questions, please ask.

 

[Enoch111]

No one needs the Holy Spirit to teach them that oil means just temporal oil.

What kind of a statement is this? Christians need the Holy Spirit to correctly interpret the Scriptures, and it is the Holy Spirit who reveals to us that oil is symbolic of the Holy Spirit in Scripture. So when the oil is missing, the Holy Spirit is missing. The word "unction" is connected to the Holy Spirit, and "unction" means anointing with oil.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Where is the God of Paul?? Oh, where IS He? Don’t you wonder? Oh, wake up!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

What kind of a statement is this? Christians need the Holy Spirit to correctly interpret the Scriptures, and it is the Holy Spirit who reveals to us that oil is symbolic of the Holy Spirit in Scripture. So when the oil is missing, the Holy Spirit is missing. The word "unction" is connected to the Holy Spirit, and "unction" means anointing with oil.

Thank you!
All 10 had oil.

 

[Wrangler]

What does the oil represent then?
The physical meaning means be careful to pay your electric bill and the spiritual meaning is…?

Be prepared to meet your maker.

You are determined to complicate the simple. What's great about principles is their validity over many applications. Be prepared. That's a good principle to live by. Period.

Since I posted last my SIL asked for borrow money to pay his January bills. He got his GF an impressive engagement ring ... he ran out of oil. Foolish virgin.

 

[Mr E]

Where is the God of Paul?? Oh, where IS He? Don’t you wonder? Oh, wake up!

Wake up indeed. That's the basis for the story.... they waited so long, they became tired and they went to sleep. And then there is this matter of light--

For everything made visible is light, and for this reason it says:

“Awake, O sleeper
Rise from the dead,
and Christ will shine on you!”

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Be prepared to meet your maker.

You are determined to complicate the simple. What's great about principles is their validity over many applications. Be prepared. That's a good principle to live by. Period.

Since I posted last my SIL asked for borrow money to pay his January bills. He got his GF an impressive engagement ring ... he ran out of oil. Foolish virgin.

So the parables are all about wisdom in handling temporal items that will all be burned in fire one day and there is no deeper meaning about the kingdom of God?

 

[Wrangler]

So the parables are all about wisdom in handling temporal items that will all be burned in fire one day and there is no deeper meaning about the kingdom of God?

Woah! We were talking about the one parable involving 5 foolish virgins who ran out of oil. Over and over again you asked me to explain it to you, to explain what the oil symbolized.

I'm not sure when the topic turned to ALL THE PARABLES. However, that seems like a great topic for another thread. My Every Man's NLT has a nice table of all the parables and what verses they are in.

I do believe you jumping from one parable - and it's simple explanation - to a criticism of how that explanation does not work for ALL the parables is a great example of SCOPE CREEP and a means by which clear doctrine may appear to be or become vague. So, to explicitly answer your question; no. The parables cover a wide variety of topics. What do you specifically want to talk about now?

 

[Mr E]

So the parables are all about wisdom in handling temporal items that will all be burned in fire one day and there is no deeper meaning about the kingdom of God?

For those who see only physical things with physical eyes, the invisible things remain hidden from them. But those who seek, find.

I think I'll leave this thread for what it is, and separate myself from it. If anyone wants to look into the parable more deeply, we can.

You have to move beyond your idea of physical things and understand what Jesus was talking about, beyond the surface level and physical understanding- which is apparent. If oil is oil, then it's a silly story dumbed down for dumb people. But that's not what it is at all. Just as (as you pointed out) the parable of the seeds is not about farming. They already knew how to farm and didn't need him to explain it, nor fishing or how lamps work. These things they knew. And they knew what sleeping was.

But that's not what he was talking about. He had a deeper concept in mind regarding sleeping. He also had a different understanding of oil and what it means for one's lamp to go out.

While he was still speaking, people came from the synagogue leader’s house saying, “Your daughter has died. Why trouble the teacher any longer?” But Jesus, paying no attention to what was said, told the synagogue leader, “Do not be afraid; just believe.” He did not let anyone follow him except Peter, James, and John, the brother of James. They came to the house of the synagogue leader where he saw noisy confusion and people weeping and wailing loudly. When he entered he said to them, “Why are you distressed and weeping? The child is not dead but asleep!”