Understanding "THE MAN OF SIN IS REVEALED" passage.

[ScottA]

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.​

​

5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2​

​

Just as all who are holy are "in Christ", all who have sinned were in Adam--one man. And just as the falling away came to Adam, it must also come to the Last man, whom is Christ including those before and also those after His coming...this is why Jesus is rightly called "the Last Adam." "However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual."

 

[Mr E]

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.​

​

5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2​

​

Just as all who are holy are "in Christ", all who have sinned were in Adam--one man. And just as the falling away came to Adam, it must also come to the Last man, whom is Christ including those before and also those after His coming...this is why Jesus is rightly called "the Last Adam." "However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual."

Close, but not exactly.

 

[Truth7t7]

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.​

​

5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2​

​

Just as all who are holy are "in Christ", all who have sinned were in Adam--one man. And just as the falling away came to Adam, it must also come to the Last man, whom is Christ including those before and also those after His coming...this is why Jesus is rightly called "the Last Adam." "However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual."

(The Man Of Sin) will be a future individual human man, also seen as John's (The Beast) commonly referred to as (The Antichrist)

 

[ScottA]

(The Man Of Sin) will be a future individual human man, also seen as John's (The Beast) commonly referred to as (The Antichrist)

That is the parable, but you have not understood it.

With that type of understanding one would believe Jesus is just "a man who sowed good seed in his field", and salvation is just a "treasure hidden in a field."

 

[Truth7t7]

That is the parable, but you have not understood it.

With that type of understanding one would believe Jesus is just "a man who sowed good seed in his field", and salvation is just a "treasure hidden in a field."

Scott your trying to turn the future evil human man (The Man Of Sin) into a Mystical Gobbly Goop, ain't happening

Your complete foundation for theological interpretation has a New Age Mystical flavor, out in left field is a big understatement, my opinion

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Davy]

​

Just as all who are holy are "in Christ", all who have sinned were in Adam--one man. And just as the falling away came to Adam, it must also come to the Last man, whom is Christ including those before and also those after His coming...this is why Jesus is rightly called "the Last Adam." "However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual."

That thinking is so SILLY! and has nothing to do with the subject of 2 Thessalonians 2!

In 2 Thess.2, Apostle Paul was WARNING the brethren at the Church of Thessalonica about those crept in that were DISTORTING the true return of Lord Jesus and Christ in the future, and the gathering of His Church. I mean you even QUOTED THAT FIRST PART OF 2 THESS.2 TO SHOW YOU THAT IS PAUL'S SUBJECT THERE! But you try to throw all that 'falling away' back to the days of the man Adam in God's Garden?? What total rubbish doctrines you have!

 

[Randy Kluth]

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.​

​

5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2​

​

Just as all who are holy are "in Christ", all who have sinned were in Adam--one man. And just as the falling away came to Adam, it must also come to the Last man, whom is Christ including those before and also those after His coming...this is why Jesus is rightly called "the Last Adam." "However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual."

A little too obscure for me.... I'm Postrib--that's about all I can say to that.

 

[ScottA]

Scott your trying to turn the future evil human man (The Man Of Sin) into a Mystical Gobbly Goop, ain't happening

Your complete foundation for theological interpretation has a New Age Mystical flavor, out in left field is a big understatement, my opinion

Jesus Is The Lord

Accusations and criticisms are not virtuous talents, but bad character.

I lean toward God who is spirit and His kingdom (He must increase but I decrease), while you lean toward the worldly interpretation, therefore you don't like what I stand for. No secret. See what it gets you.

 

[ScottA]

That thinking is so SILLY! and has nothing to do with the subject of 2 Thessalonians 2!

In 2 Thess.2, Apostle Paul was WARNING the brethren at the Church of Thessalonica about those crept in that were DISTORTING the true return of Lord Jesus and Christ in the future, and the gathering of His Church. I mean you even QUOTED THAT FIRST PART OF 2 THESS.2 TO SHOW YOU THAT IS PAUL'S SUBJECT THERE! But you try to throw all that 'falling away' back to the days of the man Adam in God's Garden?? What total rubbish doctrines you have!

So you believe, so you say. Changes nothing of the truth which I have revealed to you.

 

[ScottA]

A little too obscure for me.... I'm Postrib--that's about all I can say to that.

Indeed, all of scripture has been obscured at Babel.

 

[Truth7t7]

I lean toward God who is spirit and His kingdom (He must increase but I decrease),

You promote a gobbly goop Mystical god, nothing is future, all has been fulfilled

You don't believe in or teach of a "Literal Visible" second coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens as seen below, just Mystical gobbly goop that doesn't stick to the wall

It's my opinion your "Full Preterist"

Jesus Is The Lord

Matthew 24:30KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

[ScottA]

You promote a gobble goop Mystical god, nothing is future, all has been fulfilled

You don't believe in or teach of a "Literal Visible" second coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens as seen below, just Mystical gobble goop that doesn't stick to the wall

It's my opinion your "Full Preterist"

Matthew 24:30KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

You don't even know the definition of what you are accusing me of. But if you want to refer to my referring to the spirit of God as "mystical god"--weeping and gnashing of teeth await--if you're lucky.

Go ahead, keep it up.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Indeed, all of scripture has been obscured at Babel.

Human Knowledge has indeed been marred by the effects of Sin. Our spiritual nature has been spoiled, and both our thinking and our seeing has been damaged.

That being said, all is not lost. We were given Scriptures, and despite the difficulty, we do have a means of objectively scrutinizing truth. If you wish to make a point you'll have to do a better job of explaining. Otherwise, it will look like you're amusing yourself, which does nobody any good.

 

[rwb]

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.​

​

5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2​

​

Just as all who are holy are "in Christ", all who have sinned were in Adam--one man. And just as the falling away came to Adam, it must also come to the Last man, whom is Christ including those before and also those after His coming...this is why Jesus is rightly called "the Last Adam." "However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual."

Our gathering together unto Him had not come nor was the day of Christ at hand when Paul wrote this epistle to the Thessalonians. Christ' coming again will be preceded by "the falling away" and the man of sin being revealed. Paul tells us who the man of sin is. The son of perdition is anyone who brings that which was once called good to damnable destruction, ruin, loss, spiritual darkness. This man of sin, according to Paul also opposes and exalts himself, desiring to be worshipped as God, making himself comfortable among the people of God, calling himself of the body of Christ, the true temple, which believers are.

The man of sin sounds very much like the warning Paul gives in Acts. Maybe this is what Paul had in mind when he reminds them, he has already told them these things?

Acts 20:28-31 (KJV) Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

When we heed the words of Paul it seems the man of sin is known to Paul, not only one man who shall come in the future. Paul warns the Church of the man of sin because through them there would come a falling away. I believe that as the day of Christ' return draws nearer it will become evident that the Church on earth has been overrun with those who profess to belong to the Church, but who are in fact making the Church more and more an abomination unto God. I believe this falling away that precedes His coming again is what Christ warned us would come if we did not hold tightly to Him, our first love. The falling away will be seen as the Light of Christ through His Gospel gradually becomes less and less. Instead of speaking of the love of Christ by proclaiming His Gospel, the Church will be pre-occupied with the things of this world. This is not something new for the Church on this earth, but as the time for Christ' return grows closer I believe faith will be harder to find on this earth. Which is why Christ was prompted to ask the rhetorical question, "Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?"

Revelation 2:4-5 (KJV) Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

 

[ScottA]

Human Knowledge has indeed been marred by the effects of Sin. Our spiritual nature has been spoiled, and both our thinking and our seeing has been damaged.

That being said, all is not lost. We were given Scriptures, and despite the difficulty, we do have a means of objectively scrutinizing truth. If you wish to make a point you'll have to do a better job of explaining. Otherwise, it will look like you're amusing yourself, which does nobody any good.

Perhaps, but be careful with that criticism...as it could also be said of God, just as you said it yourself in describing the scriptures.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Perhaps, but be careful with that criticism...as it could also be said of God, just as you said it yourself in describing the scriptures.

Nobody around here makes me nervous but God, including your warnings.
If you think asking for more information is hostile, you might think about whether you're just trying to protect yourself from scrutiny? I'm hoping that's not the case.

If you don't want to add more details, I'm fine with that. Just don't expect much of a comment from me.

 

[ScottA]

Our gathering together unto Him had not come nor was the day of Christ at hand when Paul wrote this epistle to the Thessalonians. Christ' coming again will be preceded by "the falling away" and the man of sin being revealed. Paul tells us who the man of sin is. The son of perdition is anyone who brings that which was once called good to damnable destruction, ruin, loss, spiritual darkness. This man of sin, according to Paul also opposes and exalts himself, desiring to be worshipped as God, making himself comfortable among the people of God, calling himself of the body of Christ, the true temple, which believers are.

The man of sin sounds very much like the warning Paul gives in Acts. Maybe this is what Paul had in mind when he reminds them, he has already told them these things?

Acts 20:28-31 (KJV) Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

When we heed the words of Paul it seems the man of sin is known to Paul, not only one man who shall come in the future. Paul warns the Church of the man of sin because through them there would come a falling away. I believe that as the day of Christ' return draws nearer it will become evident that the Church on earth has been overrun with those who profess to belong to the Church, but who are in fact making the Church more and more an abomination unto God. I believe this falling away that precedes His coming again is what Christ warned us would come if we did not hold tightly to Him, our first love. The falling away will be seen as the Light of Christ through His Gospel gradually becomes less and less. Instead of speaking of the love of Christ by proclaiming His Gospel, the Church will be pre-occupied with the things of this world. This is not something new for the Church on this earth, but as the time for Christ' return grows closer I believe faith will be harder to find on this earth. Which is why Christ was prompted to ask the rhetorical question, "Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?"

Revelation 2:4-5 (KJV) Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

It is a difficult thing to separate ourselves from how we are prone to think in terms of our short little lives and our own times, and think rather that we are hearing from God in His perspective rather than ours. In that God-sized perspective--when would He say the "falling away" is? Would He not say, "Since Adam?" But we in our little way look for a future grand finale, forgetting the words of Hosea, who said, "Look behind you, O Benjamin!"

And when then did "the man of sin" also begin to be revealed?

 

[rwb]

It is a difficult thing to separate ourselves from how we are prone to think in terms of our short little lives and our own times, and think rather that we are hearing from God in His perspective rather than ours. In that God-sized perspective--when would He say the "falling away" is? Would He not say, "Since Adam?" But we in our little way look for a future grand finale, forgetting the words of Hosea, who said, "Look behind you, O Benjamin!"

And when then did "the man of sin" also begin to be revealed?

It depends on what one believes the falling away signifies. Since I believe the falling away Paul warns the Thessalonians will come is associated with "the coming of our Lord, and our gathering together unto Him", along with "that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord"..."shall destroy with the brightness of his coming", should be discerned as being fulfilled with the coming of the Lord the second time.

If, as I believe, the falling away will be fulfilled when the Church on earth is more concerned with things of this world than they are for proclaiming the Gospel. Which is how the Church at Ephesus had lost her first love. They lost their love for Christ, Who is the Gospel. Without repentance Christ warns the candlestick or Light of Christ (Church) would be removed. How can there be Light (candlestick/Church) without the Gospel of Christ?

Revelation 1:20 (KJV) The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

The man of sin, according to Paul is apparent in the Church on earth from the first century AD when Christ commissioned His Church to go out and proclaim the Gospel unto all nations through the power of the Holy Spirit. Because that is when "great tribulation" Christ promised His Church would come as the Gospel is sent unto all the world, would begin. From the beginning of the Gospel, Church age, many imposters have joined the Church, but did not continue, making it known they did not belong.

1 John 2:18-19 (KJV) Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

As the time for Christ' return draws nearer, I believe instead of departing out of the universal Churches, those who do not belong (all man of sin or sinful mankind) will set themselves up as leaders to take over the Church and turn the Church into a worldly social club for doing good deeds but lacking altogether the Gospel of Christ. Because I believe the proclamation of the Gospel is that which restrains. Once the Gospel is no longer being sent out, the Lord shall return to destroy the wicked with the brightness of His coming. And all those who did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved, shall be damned.

 

[ScottA]

Nobody around here makes me nervous but God, including your warnings.
If you think asking for more information is hostile, you might think about whether you're just trying to protect yourself from scrutiny? I'm hoping that's not the case.

If you don't want to add more details, I'm fine with that. Just don't expect much of a comment from me.

You do realize there was no question in your post just critical advice, right?

It depends on what one believes the falling away signifies. Since I believe the falling away Paul warns the Thessalonians will come is associated with "the coming of our Lord, and our gathering together unto Him", along with "that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord"..."shall destroy with the brightness of his coming", should be discerned as being fulfilled with the coming of the Lord the second time.

If, as I believe, the falling away will be fulfilled when the Church on earth is more concerned with things of this world than they are for proclaiming the Gospel. Which is how the Church at Ephesus had lost her first love. They lost their love for Christ, Who is the Gospel. Without repentance Christ warns the candlestick or Light of Christ (Church) would be removed. How can there be Light (candlestick/Church) without the Gospel of Christ?

Revelation 1:20 (KJV) The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

The man of sin, according to Paul is apparent in the Church on earth from the first century AD when Christ commissioned His Church to go out and proclaim the Gospel unto all nations through the power of the Holy Spirit. Because that is when "great tribulation" Christ promised His Church would come as the Gospel is sent unto all the world, would begin. From the beginning of the Gospel, Church age, many imposters have joined the Church, but did not continue, making it known they did not belong.

1 John 2:18-19 (KJV) Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

As the time for Christ' return draws nearer, I believe instead of departing out of the universal Churches, those who do not belong (all man of sin or sinful mankind) will set themselves up as leaders to take over the Church and turn the Church into a worldly social club for doing good deeds but lacking altogether the Gospel of Christ. Because I believe the proclamation of the Gospel is that which restrains. Once the Gospel is no longer being sent out, the Lord shall return to destroy the wicked with the brightness of His coming. And all those who did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved, shall be damned.

That certainly accounts for part, but consider that Paul also said that "we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep." Meaning that those who sleep included even those before the gospel went out, who began "to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord" even since Adam, as those are the terms.

So then, yes, Paul's word to the Thessalonians would certainly have meant what you said. But with all that he said combined and the rest of the scriptures, all are included even of all times.

 

[Randy Kluth]

You do realize there was no question in your post just critical advice, right?

Not at all. I was begging, perhaps inferentially, for more info. "A little too obscure for me.... I'm Postrib--that's about all I can say to that."

That certainly accounts for part, but consider that Paul also said that "we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep." Meaning that those who sleep included even those before the gospel went out, who began "to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord" even since Adam, as those are the terms.

So then, yes, Paul's word to the Thessalonians would certainly have meant what you said. But with all that he said combined and the rest of the scriptures, all are included even of all times.

Well, I can agree with the part about those from Adam to the 2nd Coming will be raised up in the "1st Resurrection." I know there are those who limit the "1st Resurrection" only to the martyrs under Antichrist.

I understand that, but just think that they're failing to read between the lines. The emphasis is on those who overcome Antichrist because it is an encouragement to believers in all ages to stand up, while they are alive, against the forces of the enemy.

I don't see how this can be extended into the future, though? I would think the "2nd Resurrection" will apply to those?