If you believe these are the end times, why do you not also believe great apostacy has come?

[Truth7t7]

You too do not even know the definition of what you accuse me, nor do you know what I am or have said.

Scott please explain the "Second Coming" of Jesus Christ seen below, when, where, how, will, or has this taken place?

Scott please explain in detail the "Second Coming" seen below?

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-8KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

*** There really should be a separate section for Preterists only so they can toss around their views with eachother, live in this alternate reality with a completely different view of where we are and where we are headed. Trying to convert the rest of us is just a futile task like chasing after the wind or holding back the tide.

 

[ScottA]

Was all prophecy finished on the cross? No, Jesus makes this clearer in Luke 24:44 - "And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me." Which is basically a summary of Is. 53 concerning His first advent only! The phrase,"my master is delaying His coming" is speaking of the present time period we are in, seeing as we know he was already here when the parable (not doctrine) was given. The same goes for Matt. 25:5. We are given signs to recognize when the DoL is coming and it hasn't happened yet as it always refers to His second coming.

Again you put these events of God who is outside of time, on a timeline, and so error by lack of understanding that greater scope. Unless and until you are able and ready to consider the things of God in their proper context--you shall remain in the context and dim of this world.

 

[ScottA]

Scott please explain the "Second Coming" of Jesus Christ seen below, when, where, how, will, or has this taken place?

Scott please explain in detail the "Second Coming" seen below?

KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-8KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Thank you for at least appearing to be civil. For this reason I will answer you:

What occurs in Luke 17:29-30, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8, and Matthew 24:29-30 is what I have been explaining to you--that like the worldly foreshadowing of Sodom, when one hears Jesus knocking and opens the door and He comes in to them (or when one passes from this world)--this is what occurs in the spirit, which cannot be seen in the world. And because it is a spiritual and timeless heavenly event, it would appear to occur in the world, not as one mass event "but each one in his own order", while in heaven it all occurs at that one moment of Christ which is that half an hour of silence in heaven (so called)--which did not occur in the world or in time, but "before the foundation of the world", while these things of the world are the mere revelation of it ("but each one in his own order").​

​

Thus, as you can see I have not stated the beliefs of any former 'ism or doctrine of men, as you have accused me. But have explained the truth from God according to all truth, just as it was foretold to come.

 

[ScottA]

The apostacy is already here!
The NEW WORLD ODER. We have experienced its control over us already during the pandemic: mandates, lockdowns, masks, vaccinations, your business is not essential, but yours is, etc.
It was an exercise in control, a dress rehearsal for what's coming, The Great Reset. And it's likely going to happen before the end of the year. The collapse of the world economies will force us into a new system, loan forgiveness ( but you must relinquish your property), digital currency, Green New deal, a massive distribution of wealth. This is why they aren't really concerned about the border crisis, it is part of the plan. Countries must all relinquish their sovereignty and it will be a hard pill to swallow for Americans.
This whole Global Warming/ Climate Change agenda was always a disguise for Global Governance. The Antichrist has not yet been revealed, but like any other anti-Christ, He is against Christianity but also Jews. The apostacy in any other time was on an individual basis, a person chooses to reject Jesus and goes off in another direction. It doesn't matter what direction Satan leads you, just away from Christ. These global elites are not Christians. Most of them are atheists, lovers of money and power. Putin is an antichrist, Soros is, Gates is, Klaus Schwab is, the Rothhschilds are ... Which one is it going to be?
The world has been duped, the strong delusion sent out, and about ready to take the Mark of the Beast. Take it and you can buy and sell. This act, a choice for each individual, will in essence be putting your faith in this NWO and it's leader rather than in Christ. That will also be the great falling away.
Mankind took a great fall in the Garden, theb The Flood brought judgment. As in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the days of the coming of the Son of Man.

Ron,

Thank you! I wanted to "Like" it--because it is mostly true. But that is all just the symptoms of the greater "lie" that first occurred which has caused the general thrust of Christianity to believe that "My master is delaying His coming." Those things are rather like the 40 days and nights of rain.

 

[Truth7t7]

Thank you for at least appearing to be civil. For this reason I will answer you:

What occurs in Luke 17:29-30, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8, and Matthew 24:29-30 is what I have been explaining to you--that like the worldly foreshadowing of Sodom, when one hears Jesus knocking and opens the door and He comes in to them (or when one passes from this world)--this is what occurs in the spirit, which cannot be seen in the world. And because it is a spiritual and timeless heavenly event, it would appear to occur in the world, not as one mass event "but each one in his own order", while in heaven it all occurs at that one moment of Christ which is that half an hour of silence in heaven (so called)--which did not occur in the world or in time, but "before the foundation of the world", while these things of the world are the mere revelation of it ("but each one in his own order").​

​

Thus, as you can see I have not stated the beliefs of any former 'ism or doctrine of men, as you have accused me. But have explained the truth from God according to all truth, just as it was foretold to come.

Simply put, Scott believes the "Second Coming" that I presented is when a person is saved, and receives Jesus Christ?

 

[ScottA]

Simply put, Scott believes the "Second Coming" that I presented is when a person is saved, and receives Jesus Christ?

Why does one end a statement or accusation with a question mark?

 

[Truth7t7]

Why does one end a statement or accusation with a question mark?

No accusation is made as you claim, it appears you don't want to answer the simple question below "Why"?

Once Again:

Simply put, Scott believes the "Second Coming" is when a person is saved, and receives Jesus Christ?

 

[ScottA]

No accusation is made as you claim, it appears you don't want to answer the simple question below "Why"?

Once Again:

Simply put, Scott believes the "Second Coming" is when a person is saved, and receives Jesus Christ?

Why do you address me as to a third person?

But no, I did not say I "believe" anything. I stated rather what I know from God...in which case, indeed there is a Third whom you are also addressing.

In either case, you have it backwards, as it is He who comes for us and receives those who are His to Himself, that we might be where He is. This is true of the dead as well as the living.

 

[Truth7t7]

In either case, you have it backwards, as it is He who comes for us and receives those who are His to Himself, that we might be where He is. This is true of the dead as well as the living.

Ok, when does Jesus come for believers to receive them to himself?

 

[ScottA]

Ok, when does Jesus come for believers to receive them to himself?

Jesus answered that, Paul answered that, and I have also answered that.

In which case, I will ask you: When and where in scripture did Jesus answer your question; and when and where in scripture did Paul answer your question? If you know the scriptures (or have been listening to me), you will know the answer.

 

[Truth7t7]

Jesus answered that, Paul answered that, and I have also answered that.

In which case, I will ask you: When and where in scripture did Jesus answer your question; and when and where in scripture did Paul answer your question? If you know the scriptures (or have been listening to me), you will know the answer.

"I don't know your answer" it appears you don't want to answer the very simple and direct question below "Why"?

When a person try's to "guess" what you believe you call them an "accuser", when they ask you a simple question you won't answer "Why"?

Once Again, Question:

When does Jesus come for believers to receive them to himself?

 

[ScottA]

"I don't know your answer" it appears you don't want to answer the very simple and direct question below "Why"?

When a person try's to "guess" what you believe you call them an "accuser", when they ask you a simple question you won't answer "Why"?

Once Again, Question:

When does Jesus come for believers to receive them to himself?

I answered that (here: #124). Pay more attention.

 

[Truth7t7]

Jesus knocking and opens the door and He comes in to them​

And I interpret your statement above as claiming the "Second Coming" that is the topic of the question, is when a person receives Jesus Christ

Scott you can't justify your symbolic interpretation of "Salvation" replacing the future literal events seen below, perhaps the Cross of Calvary was just a symbolic event also, Jesus didn't really die, and his blood wasn't shed

This is the very reason the words Mystical Gobbly Goop have been used

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-8KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

[Trekson]

Again you put these events of God who is outside of time, on a timeline, and so error by lack of understanding that greater scope. Unless and until you are able and ready to consider the things of God in their proper context--you shall remain in the context and dim of this world.

You're right, and on a prophetic basis, God's time isn't our time, that's why "soon" to Him isn't the same as "soon" to us, however God created time for us and deals with us, in most cases, based on our understanding of time. God isn't "outside" of time, he is in "all times", past, present and future, simultaneously.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Ron,

Thank you! I wanted to "Like" it--because it is mostly true. But that is all just the symptoms of the greater "lie" that first occurred which has caused the general thrust of Christianity to believe that "My master is delaying His coming." Those things are rather like the 40 days and nights of rain.

Who believes He is delaying? Delay means a change of plan. He doesn't change anything, His plan is perfect and so is His timing.
Your main argument scripture is Revelation 1:1., "things that must soon take place". That doesn't mean all things in the book. Chapter 2 & 3 apply to the Seven Churches then in Rev. 3:22, He closes the message. Chapter 4 introduces "things that will come after this", it is a vision, (not dictation), a different message, with a different setting, about different events, an invitation to heaven, " come and see" ...

Revelation was written around 95 AD, long after Jerusalem was destroyed. There are several reasons why scholars agree to this date.
1. The Church in Symrna did not even exist in 67 AD., Polycarp said so. Polycarp was the Bishop of Symrna and was born around 70 AD. He was a disciple and successor of John, so this church began decades after 70 AD. And btw, there is no mention anywhere else in scripture about Smyrna.
2. Irenaeus ( a disciple of Polycarp) said in 180 AD that pronouncing the name of the Antichrist would be incurring a risk and if it were necessary at the time, Christ would have revealed it. So if Revelation was written around the late 60's, it would have named Nero or Titus. It was after their time and therefore the name of Antichrist was unknown and a future time period.
3. Clement of Alexandria, Origen, and Eusibius all support the date of Revelation to be around 95 AD.
4. If John wrote Revelation before 70 AD, it would overlap Paul's letter to Timothy, who was in Ephesus at the time. The problems Jesus points out in Revelation concerning Ephesus and Laodicea are not evident in Paul's letters. John probably did not move to Ephesus until after Paul and Peter were martyred.
5. Nero killed Christians and their prophets including Paul and Peter. That was his style! He would also have killed John IF he was around. But John became banished to Patmos, which was Domitian's style of punishment.
6. Preterists identify the Beast in Revelation as Nero, who was an anti-Christ, but was small change to the one who is behind the scene today. The Beast has 7 heads (kings) and 10 horns (nations). The Roman Empire was not divided into fragments of many nations who in the end times will SOON come against Israel.
7. Finally the prophecies about the First Coming of Jesus were all taken literally and proven. This is the key to reading Revelation concerning the end times, His Second Coming. Jesus will literally fulfill them. It is not to be twisted into some symbolic, abstract meaning as Preterists do and claiming it happened already or as Partial-Preterists think, most of it happenned.
Conclusion: The Preterist view depends on Revelation be written before 70 AD, otherwise their view crumbles. It does - because it was written around 95 AD.

 

[ScottA]

And I interpret your statement above as claiming the "Second Coming" that is the topic of the question, is when a person receives Jesus Christ

Scott you can't justify your symbolic interpretation of "Salvation" replacing the future literal events seen below, perhaps the Cross of Calvary was just a symbolic event also, Jesus didn't really die, and his blood wasn't shed

This is the very reason the words Mystical Gobbly Goop have been used

Your lack of understanding does not constitute a lack on my part to justify what I have said, anymore than a man speaking to a post. For what communion has light with darkness?

It is God's word that is "Mystical Gobbly Goop" to you, like words spoken to someone not in their own language. Why have you not said the same of Christ who claimed one must be born again, and must eat His flesh and drink His blood? Why have you not also accused Him of being a "Mystic?" Your reaction is not original, but a repeat of those who went before. And I could explain, and have, but you have fortified your own position with worldly interpretations and emotion and delusions that were foretold.

 

[ScottA]

You're right, and on a prophetic basis, God's time isn't our time, that's why "soon" to Him isn't the same as "soon" to us, however God created time for us and deals with us, in most cases, based on our understanding of time. God isn't "outside" of time, he is in "all times", past, present and future, simultaneously.

"Yes but No" does not change the error of being off on the truth of God as far off as the world is from the kingdom.

"Soon" is just God being kind, being patient, allowing the times to let the truth sink in. But that truth is not of the worldly terms they are presented in--far from it. Heaven forbid that we should think that the terms of the clay are the terms of the Potter--they are not. No, but there is not even a "soon" in the greater truth of God...just as it has been clarified of the very thing that is at the heart of all these matters, as much as saying, No, but rather putting aside the times and speaking the truth, it is even written, as "before the foundation of the world."

So, you can continue believing in terms of the clay that was mixed with the waters that I have been explaining, and I can continue to rightly clarify to those whose ears are stopped with that same clay, while no one hears...or you can drop the clay and look rather to the waters from above which I have been speaking by. Both are before us all.

 

[ScottA]

Who believes He is delaying? Delay means a change of plan. He doesn't change anything, His plan is perfect and so is His timing.
Your main argument scripture is Revelation 1:1., "things that must soon take place". That doesn't mean all things in the book. Chapter 2 & 3 apply to the Seven Churches then in Rev. 3:22, He closes the message. Chapter 4 introduces "things that will come after this", it is a vision, (not dictation), a different message, with a different setting, about different events, an invitation to heaven, " come and see" ...

Revelation was written around 95 AD, long after Jerusalem was destroyed. There are several reasons why scholars agree to this date.
1. The Church in Symrna did not even exist in 67 AD., Polycarp said so. Polycarp was the Bishop of Symrna and was born around 70 AD. He was a disciple and successor of John, so thus church began decades after 70 AD. Abd btw, there us no mention anywhere else in scripture about Smyrna.
2. Irenaeus ( a disciple of Polycarp) said n 180 AD that pronouncing the name of the Antichrist would be incurring a risk and if it were necessary at the time, Christ would have revealed it. So if Revelation was written around the late 60's, it would have named Nero or Titus. It was after their time and therefore the name of Antichrist was unknown and a future time period.
3. Clement of Alexandria, Origen, and Eusibius all support the date of Revelation to be around 95 AD.
4. If John wrote Revelation before 70 AD, it would overlap Paul's letter to Timothy, who was in Ephesus at the time. The problems Jesus points out in Revelation concerning Ephesus and Laodicea are jot evident in Paul's letters. John probably did not move to Ephesus until after Paul and Peter were martyred.
5. Nero killed Christians and their prophets including Paul and Peter. That was his style! He would also have killed John IF he was around. But John became banished to Patmos, which was Domitian's style of punishment.
6. Preterists identify the Beast in Revelation as Nero, who was an anti-Christ, but was small change to the one who is behind the scene today. The Beast has 7 heads (kings) and 10 horns (nations). The Roman Empire was not divided into fragments of many nations who in the end times will SOON come against Israel.
7. Finally the prophecies about the First Coming of Jesus were all taken literally and proven. This is the key to reading Revelation concerning the end times, His Second Coming. Jesus will literally fulfill them. It is not to be twisted into some symbolic, abstract meaning as Preterists do and claiming it happened already or as Partial-Preterists think, most of it happenned.
Conclusion: The Preterist view depends on Revelation be written before 70 AD, otherwise their view crumbles. It does - because it was written around 95 AD.

Your explanation is your explanation, but it too is in accord with "My master is delaying his coming."

But let's be clear--I am not claiming anything that qualifies to be called "Preterist", as they claimed it was all finished, and I do not--not in the way they did. I don't even know all of what they believed, but do know enough to know they were wrong. Even so, even being wrong, they were more correct than most of the church during all these many generations. But what I have claimed, I have explained already:

I have been explaining the actual transition between time and eternity--not giving a timeline of events saying "It is finished" at any time in history (as the Preterists did). On the contrary, history--"the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this" is the timeline, while the truth of God and the kingdom do not exist on it any more than there is clay in heaven before the Potter. Do you understand this? Am I wrong to say, "There is no clay in heaven?"

So, you can continue dabbling in the clay of this world according to the terms of this world, or you can drop it, and consider the truth of God in whom there is no clay, nor times.

If you understand that there is no clay and no time in the revelation of "all truth", then understand that I have not been speaking of the things of God with regard to the things or the times of this world, but without regard for them...regarding rather that place where "It is finished." It is in that place (not in the history of this world) that all these things has actually occurred, just as when push came to shove, it was even written that it was revealed in the fulness of time that the Lamb was slain--but was rather rightfully stated as: "slain before the foundation of the world."

But if you only again explain it away--I will leave you to it. For the Spirit was not sent to entertain the flesh, nor shall I entertain you further.

 

[Truth7t7]

Your lack of understanding does not constitute a lack on my part to justify what I have said, anymore than a man speaking to a post. For what communion has light with darkness

To think a person would promote the act of personal "Salvation" as fulfilling the literal, visible, second coming seen below and in countless places throughout the bible

Thats Way out of the ball park Scott, and you really believe yourself

Jesus Is The Lord

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-8KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.