Understanding "THE MAN OF SIN IS REVEALED" passage.

[yokefellow]

I believe that the Antichrist is none other than that “son of perdition“ who is none other than Satan himself.

 

[Timtofly]

I was responding to what you said about the ECFs having a common belief with modern Futurists about the Ten Horns. The ECFs believed they would follow directly after the 4th kingdom, but modern Futurists say this "ten nation confederacy" is still future. While I also believe it's a dual fulfillment when one considers the "Club of Rome" secret society, only true Protestant Historicism always acknowledges the rise of the Ten Barbarian tribes out of Rome as a fulfillment, as well, unlike modern Futurism.

I think that puts us back to square one - that the ECFs held only one common belief with modern Futurists: a future rise of the Antichrist ;)

In the first century it was Rome. How are you going to get 10 toes, before Rome is conquered?

The ten toes replace Rome as the next empire. The Reformation shattered the ten toes.

But Revelation 17 and 18 is not about the ten toes. They no longer exist to be defeated at the Second Coming. Those ten nations at the end probably won't even use names of current nations on earth. Satan watches them form when the 7th Trumpet sounds.

We don't even have a clue how many humans will be alive at the 7th Trumpet. Why do people think they can name the ten nations in Revelation? That is as bad as predicting your future with a horoscope or tarot cards.

 

[Phoneman777]

In the first century it was Rome. How are you going to get 10 toes, before Rome is conquered?

Always believed the Ten Toes/Ten Horns are representative of the barbarian nations which arose from the ashes of the Roman Empire and evolved into Europe.

The Reformation shattered the ten toes.

Horns, toes, beasts are kingdoms, not religious ideologies (save the Little Horn which is a "diverse" religious/state kingdom where religion controls the state -- which is why Revelation 17 depicts this same power as a "woman" riding upon the ten horned "beast"). What the Reformation did was give end the tyrannical reign of the papacy over Europe and usher in religious freedom.

But Revelation 17 and 18 is not about the ten toes. They no longer exist to be defeated at the Second Coming.

The Ten Toes evolved into Europe, which remains. This is classic Protestant Historicism which caused so much damage to the catholic church that they fabricated the unBiblical ideas of Jesuit Preterism and Jesuit Futurism in the mid-16th century to get you and others to look to the past, to the future, to anywhere except to Rome for the Antichrist. Arguably, the most effective diversionary tactic of all time.

Those ten nations at the end probably won't even use names of current nations on earth. Satan watches them form when the 7th Trumpet sounds. We don't even have a clue how many humans will be alive at the 7th Trumpet. Why do people think they can name the ten nations in Revelation? That is as bad as predicting your future with a horoscope or tarot cards.

If we stick to the Protestant Historicist eschatological timeline, it's easy. The thing I despise most about Antichrist's Jesuit Futurism lie is how unbelievably inconsistent it is:

>4 beasts immediately rise one after another but the Ten Horns sticking out Rome's head wait millennium
>2,000+ year gap inserted into Daniel's 70 Weeks but in no other numerically specific time prophecy
>Prophetic time is considered literal in one place but symbolic in another place
>Total disregard or Hebrew Chiastic Structure, allowing a speedy derailment of the eschatological train
>Claims God refers to some future rebuilt temple filled with blasphemous sacrifices as the "Temple of God"
>God freely allows "last 7 years of tribulation" folks to walk by sight but burdens the rest of with walking by faith
>Claims Epiphanes IV is a "type" of "Little Horn" though this weak fool is anything but "exceeding great"
>Essentially says events between the Laodicean church and the "secret rapture" are unseen by God
>Ignores ECF testimony that the Restrainer is the Roman Empire, and insists its an "agent of holiness"

"Consistency, thou art a jewel".

 

[ScottA]

The topic being discussed here is the return of Jesus Christ and our gathering back to Him. Very specifically, Paul tells us in verse 3 that TWO THINGS must happen BEFORE we gather back to Jesus Christ. What are those two things?

1. There must first come a falling away.

2. The "man of sin,” who is the "son of perdition,” must be revealed.

That is correct.

The common error and "delusion", however, is that the falling away did not begin with the fall, and the son of perdition does not include the sons of him who originally sinned "according to the working of Satan." Which is to say, "among those who perish", meaning all who "the wages of sin is death." The common error then, is that it does not speak of one man only, but is a blanket statement including all who are first born of Satan their father, whom are the lost.

Accordingly, Paul also clarified when Christ returns, saying, "but each one in his own order." Meaning that, just as all who are born come into the world in their own order, they shall also pass from this world in their own order, whether in death or in life.

 

[Phoneman777]

I believe that the Antichrist is none other than that “son of perdition“ who is none other than Satan himself.

See, that's not possible. How can Satan and the Antichrist be one in the same when in Revelation, the "Dragon" is Satan and the "Beast" is the Antichrist?

The "Dragon" is Satan and his associated demonic occult systems and secret societies
The "Beast" is the Antichrist system that arose among Daniel's barbarian Ten Horns after Rome fell and plucked up 3
The "False Prophet" once had two mighty horns like a Lamb but now, sadly, preaches a false gospel of the Dragon

The "Beast's Image" is a church/state system set up by the False Prophet which will match that of the Beast - coming to a town near you, so buckle up, buttercup!

 

[Phoneman777]

1. There must first come a falling away.

Remember when the pure church was overrun with paganism; when idolatrous pagan statues were dragged into the church; when the people were told to pray to the dead for intercession; when pagan festivals like Easter and Christmas were dragged into the church, when sun worship, cleverly disguised as "resurrection Sunday veneration", was dragged into the church; when priests claimed the power to forgive sin is in them alone, not Christ's blood; when priests condemned 50-150 million God-fearing saints to death because of the crime of "heresy"; when the most common crime of "heresy" was refusing to confess that round wafer - symbol of Babylonian sun worship - was the actual body of Christ; when the priests claim we are to approach them as "another Christ" for intercession; when the Popes claim to be "God on Earth" and wear the triple crown signifying them to be "king of heaven, earth, and purgatory"; when they claim to have changed God's holy law written by Him in stone, with regard to the 2nd, 4th, 10th, and really every single commandment if you take into account what's written in their many papal encyclicals...remember when? Oh, it's still going on today, right?

If that ain't a "falling away" (Greek: "apostasia" from where we get "apostasy") then there ain't none at all.

2. The "man of sin,” who is the "son of perdition,” must be revealed.

Judas, the "son of perdition" arose within the ranks of the faithful, but apostatized...so, did men who cowered in the corner when true saints were leaving their testimony written in their blood, arise within the church into leadership positions after Christianity became the religion of the Roman state, only to apostatize and cause the church to "fall away" - and when Rome finally fell and the caesars vacated the throne, so the Bishop of Rome sat down and began his 1,260 year reign of terror over the saints of God, sitting in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God - until the glorious Protestant Reformation, which ushered in religious freedom from the tyrannical papal Antichrist brought his reign from 538 - 1798 to an end...ONLY TO HAVE PROTESTANTS TODAY SUFFER UNIVERSAL MASS DELUSIONAL AMNESIA and fall all over themselves to run back to their murderous mother.

 

[Timtofly]

Always believed the Ten Toes/Ten Horns are representative of the barbarian nations which arose from the ashes of the Roman Empire and evolved into Europe.

Horns, toes, beasts are kingdoms, not religious ideologies (save the Little Horn which is a "diverse" religious/state kingdom where religion controls the state -- which is why Revelation 17 depicts this same power as a "woman" riding upon the ten horned "beast"). What the Reformation did was give end the tyrannical reign of the papacy over Europe and usher in religious freedom.

The Ten Toes evolved into Europe, which remains. This is classic Protestant Historicism which caused so much damage to the catholic church that they fabricated the unBiblical ideas of Jesuit Preterism and Jesuit Futurism in the mid-16th century to get you and others to look to the past, to the future, to anywhere except to Rome for the Antichrist. Arguably, the most effective diversionary tactic of all time.


If we stick to the Protestant Historicist eschatological timeline, it's easy. The thing I despise most about Antichrist's Jesuit Futurism lie is how unbelievably inconsistent it is:

>4 beasts immediately rise one after another but the Ten Horns sticking out Rome's head wait millennium
>2,000+ year gap inserted into Daniel's 70 Weeks but in no other numerically specific time prophecy
>Prophetic time is considered literal in one place but symbolic in another place
>Total disregard or Hebrew Chiastic Structure, allowing a speedy derailment of the eschatological train
>Claims God refers to some future rebuilt temple filled with blasphemous sacrifices as the "Temple of God"
>God freely allows "last 7 years of tribulation" folks to walk by sight but burdens the rest of with walking by faith
>Claims Epiphanes IV is a "type" of "Little Horn" though this weak fool is anything but "exceeding great"
>Essentially says events between the Laodicean church and the "secret rapture" are unseen by God
>Ignores ECF testimony that the Restrainer is the Roman Empire, and insists its an "agent of holiness"

"Consistency, thou art a jewel".

Revelation 13 is not "the rest of the story" taking off where Daniel left off.

Daniel has been fulfilled for some time now. Revelation 13 is after the Second Coming, and all the works of man burned up. It starts from scratch.

There is only one continent after the 6th Seal.

"And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places."

Every mountain range and every continent will be moved back into a single land mass like in Genesis 1 before the Flood divided the earth up into separate continents.

Not sure why people gloss over these verses as if nothing changes at the Second Coming?

Even if only symbolic of governments they are all moved and changed. Only Israel and some Middle East countries will remain as they are government wise. Egypt is the one example given as a nation left in the 1,000 years after the Second Coming.

 

[Phoneman777]

Revelation 13 is not "the rest of the story" taking off where Daniel left off.

Daniel has been fulfilled for some time now. Revelation 13 is after the Second Coming, and all the works of man burned up. It starts from scratch.

There is only one continent after the 6th Seal.

"And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places."

Every mountain range and every continent will be moved back into a single land mass like in Genesis 1 before the Flood divided the earth up into separate continents.

Not sure why people gloss over these verses as if nothing changes at the Second Coming?

Even if only symbolic of governments they are all moved and changed. Only Israel and some Middle East countries will remain as they are government wise. Egypt is the one example given as a nation left in the 1,000 years after the Second Coming.

The ECFs/Reformers all saw Daniel's Little Horn, Paul's Man of Sin, and John's Beast as one in the same: Antichrist. So, no way Daniel can be done because the Man of Sin and Beast of Revelation ain't done.

Do you agree the First Four Feasts Day "types" had to do with Christ's First Coming?

• He is our "Passover" Lamb
• His body was "Unleavened Bread" in the tomb
• He's the "Firstfruits" of the resurrection
• His perfect obedience to the "Law" makes possible the "Holy Spirit"

Then, listen how the Last Three Feast Day "types" have to do with His Second Coming:

Revelation 6:14 to which you refer hasn't come to pass yet. We are now living between verse 13 and 14. This is because verses 12 and 13 are the "antitype" fulfillment of two of the Last Three Feast Days:

• 1755 AD Lisbon earthquake which shook the whole earth like nothing since
• 1780 AD Dark Day and Blood Red Moon which today remains inexplicable
• 1833 AD Leonid meteor shower, inexplicable unless you read the classic "Great Controversy"

The OT blowing of the Feast of Trumpets occurred 10 days before the Day of Atonement aka "Cleansing of the Sanctuary" aka "Judgment".
1755 AD began 10 years of the "great religious awakening" - the antitypical Feast of Trumpets - when all over the world people began studying prophecy, and discovered Jesus was coming soon. These people were called "Adventists" and were kicked out of every mainline Protestant church for the "heresy" of denying "1,000 years of peace would precede Christ's coming".

1843/44 AD was the end of this antitypical Feast of Trumpets and the fulfillment of the antitypical Day of Atonement began, per Daniel's prophecy of the 2,300 Days which began in 457 BC and ended in 1843/44 AD, when our High Priest Jesus moved from the Holy Place to the Most Holy Place in the heavenly sanctuary, just as the high priest did on earth.

So, when our heavenly High Priest finishes His ministry in the Most Holy Place, He will remove His priestly robes and don His royal, kingly robes and "come into His kingdom" and return for the saints at last in the Second Coming, which will be the fulfillment of the Feast of Tabernacles when we begin our eternal tabernacle with Him.

 

[Timtofly]

The ECFs/Reformers all saw Daniel's Little Horn, Paul's Man of Sin, and John's Beast as one in the same: Antichrist. So, no way Daniel can be done because the Man of Sin and Beast of Revelation ain't done.

Do you agree the First Four Feasts Day "types" had to do with Christ's First Coming?

• He is our "Passover" Lamb
• His body was "Unleavened Bread" in the tomb
• He's the "Firstfruits" of the resurrection
• His perfect obedience to the "Law" makes possible the "Holy Spirit"

Then, listen how the Last Three Feast Day "types" have to do with His Second Coming:

Revelation 6:14 to which you refer hasn't come to pass yet. We are now living between verse 13 and 14. This is because verses 12 and 13 are the "antitype" fulfillment of two of the Last Three Feast Days:

• 1755 AD Lisbon earthquake which shook the whole earth like nothing since
• 1780 AD Dark Day and Blood Red Moon which today remains inexplicable
• 1833 AD Leonid meteor shower, inexplicable unless you read the classic "Great Controversy"

The OT blowing of the Feast of Trumpets occurred 10 days before the Day of Atonement aka "Cleansing of the Sanctuary" aka "Judgment".
1755 AD began 10 years of the "great religious awakening" - the antitypical Feast of Trumpets - when all over the world people began studying prophecy, and discovered Jesus was coming soon. These people were called "Adventists" and were kicked out of every mainline Protestant church for the "heresy" of denying "1,000 years of peace would precede Christ's coming".

1843/44 AD was the end of this antitypical Feast of Trumpets and the fulfillment of the antitypical Day of Atonement began, per Daniel's prophecy of the 2,300 Days which began in 457 BC and ended in 1843/44 AD, when our High Priest Jesus moved from the Holy Place to the Most Holy Place in the heavenly sanctuary, just as the high priest did on earth.

So, when our heavenly High Priest finishes His ministry in the Most Holy Place, He will remove His priestly robes and don His royal, kingly robes and "come into His kingdom" and return for the saints at last in the Second Coming, which will be the fulfillment of the Feast of Tabernacles when we begin our eternal tabernacle with Him.

I was talking about human governments, and you changed topics to the person of Jesus.

Satan has not yet watched his empire rise from the sea, after the Second Coming. The Second Coming has not happened yet.

Satan is the man of sin, son of perdition. The AC is the wicked one, the image brought to life. The FP is the only human in this group. But this group will only come together, if God allows them to, in the midst of the week of the sounding of the 7th Trumpet.

Jesus being a fulfillment of the types can hardly explain why Satan is allowed to do anything. The confirmation of the Atonement Covenant that God has with Adam's offspring has everything to do with those last 42 months of Adam's dead corruptible flesh. Jesus will return as King. That is what happens in the 6th Seal, even before Jacob's trouble begins, which is the time of greatest trouble Israel will ever face.

Israel will get her King, but the King will get to pick and choose who stays, and who goes. Jesus picks who reigns with Him, and who will be eternally cast into the LOF.

 

[Phoneman777]

Satan is the man of sin, son of perdition.

2 Thessalonians 2 mentions "Satan" and "man of sin" separately - consequently, they are not the same thing. The one comes "after the working" of the other in verse 9.

That's why the Protestant Reformers taught the "man of sin' was the papacy, the Roman Empire was the "restrainer" preventing the rise of the papacy, and after Rome was "taken out of the way" by the barbarian Ten Horns, the "man of sin" papacy was finally revealed - because the throne previously occupied by the caesars was now empty and free for the Bishop of Rome to sit upon.

They ruled 1,260 years, from 538-1798, the very time period foretold in prophecy and expressed as "time, times, and half a time", "42 months", "1,260 days".

 

[Timtofly]

2 Thessalonians 2 mentions "Satan" and "man of sin" separately - consequently, they are not the same thing. The one comes "after the working" of the other in verse 9.

That's why the Protestant Reformers taught the "man of sin' was the papacy, the Roman Empire was the "restrainer" preventing the rise of the papacy, and after Rome was "taken out of the way" by the barbarian Ten Horns, the "man of sin" papacy was finally revealed - because the throne previously occupied by the caesars was now empty and free for the Bishop of Rome to sit upon.

They ruled 1,260 years, from 538-1798, the very time period foretold in prophecy and expressed as "time, times, and half a time", "42 months", "1,260 days".

Satan is the only being consistently alive since before Paul's day. He is still working behind the scenes of every apostasy and antichrist on earth, including the papacy.

"And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:"

That Wicked is the future AC. Not the same being as in verses:

"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

These verses are speaking about Satan only.

Satan is not consumed. Satan is bound for 1,000 years, and then cast into the LOF.

 

[Phoneman777]

That Wicked is the future AC.

Future in Paul's day, past in our day.

"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

These verses are speaking about Satan only.

Satan is not consumed. Satan is bound for 1,000 years, and then cast into the LOF.

They are not the same. The "man of sin" and "Satan" are spoken of separately, with the one coming "after the working" of the other.

When Jesus comes in the clouds, the "man of sin" papacy shall be consumed "with the brightness of His coming". Satan, however, will have a bit more time granted him to think about what he's done - 1,000 years. Afterward, he'll prove to everyone that even 1,000 years isn't enough time to convince him of his error, and therefore must be destroyed in Fire Lake "prepared for the devil and his angels".

 

[strepho]

Second thessalonians chapter 2. The son of perdition. Verse 2:6. Is a transitive verb. You must supply a object. Its Michael holding satan in place. Revelation chapter 12, Michael boots satan and fallen angels to earth 6th trump. When satan comes in his role as antichrist, he takes over one world religious system, revelation chapter 13 to document. Those who names are not written in lambs book of life will worship antichrist. Except God's elect, they're the saints. Revelation chapter 7, God's Election have the seal of God. Majority have free will and have spirit of slumber. Ezekiel 9:4. And the Lord said unto him, Go through the midst of Jerusalem, and set mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof. This mark is the seal of God from revelation chapter 7. Its God's elect. Those who have spirit of slumber, will have the mark of beast. It's in your mind. Theirs no chip or brand. 9:5. And to the others He said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: these are the ones of revelation chapter 13, who's names are not written in lamb's book of life. They will worship antichrist. Many people have spirit of stupor for their protection. They will be taught during millennium, revelation chapter 20. I will stop here. I'm servant of God and planting seeds for God. Sharing God's truth. Study sound doctrine.