Jesus prophesied that Sabbath would be kept by Christians until His return
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Adventageous
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The Ten Commandments begin with and contain Grace:
Exo 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
So the Head, and Heart of the Law of God, is Mercy.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
2 Corinthians 3:6 - who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.
Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
1 John 3:21 - Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.
Here are some articles below which may be helpful for those who struggle with understanding the truth about sabbath keeping.
www.sabbatismos.com
www.sabbatismos.com
www.sabbatismos.com
www.sabbatismos.com
Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
1 John 3:21 - Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.
Here are some articles below which may be helpful for those who struggle with understanding the truth about sabbath keeping.
Sabbatismos Ministries: Finding Our Rest in Christ - Is the Sabbath Still Required for Christians?
Sabbatismos is a website ministry for questioning Seventh-day Adventists and Christians who want to learn more about Adventist doctrines, by former-Adventists, Joe and Jennifer Rector.
Sabbatismos Ministries: Finding Our Rest in Christ - The Commandments of God
Sabbatismos is a website ministry for questioning Seventh-day Adventists and Christians who want to learn more about Adventist doctrines, by former-Adventists, Joe and Jennifer Rector.
Sabbatismos Ministries: Finding Our Rest in Christ - New Covenant Sabbath Rest
Sabbatismos is a website ministry for questioning Seventh-day Adventists and Christians who want to learn more about Adventist doctrines, by former-Adventists, Joe and Jennifer Rector.
Sabbatismos Ministries: Finding Our Rest in Christ - The Sabbath: A Test Case
Sabbatismos is a website ministry for questioning Seventh-day Adventists and Christians who want to learn more about Adventist doctrines, by former-Adventists, Joe and Jennifer Rector.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Thumbsdown down down DOWN. Only X-adventists are worse-off Truth-wise than Adventists
These are all and everyoneHere are some articles below which may be helpful for those who struggle with understanding the truth about sabbath keeping.
Sabbatismos Ministries: Finding Our Rest in Christ - Is the Sabbath Still Required for Christians?
Sabbatismos is a website ministry for questioning Seventh-day Adventists and Christians who want to learn more about Adventist doctrines, by former-Adventists, Joe and Jennifer Rector.Sabbatismos Ministries: Finding Our Rest in Christ - The Commandments of God
Sabbatismos is a website ministry for questioning Seventh-day Adventists and Christians who want to learn more about Adventist doctrines, by former-Adventists, Joe and Jennifer Rector.Sabbatismos Ministries: Finding Our Rest in Christ - New Covenant Sabbath Rest
Sabbatismos is a website ministry for questioning Seventh-day Adventists and Christians who want to learn more about Adventist doctrines, by former-Adventists, Joe and Jennifer Rector.Sabbatismos Ministries: Finding Our Rest in Christ - The Sabbath: A Test Case
Sabbatismos is a website ministry for questioning Seventh-day Adventists and Christians who want to learn more about Adventist doctrines, by former-Adventists, Joe and Jennifer Rector.
SELF-GODS' telling, telling God
that this Commandment of His
no longer is Truth but LIE
because it reads "The Seventh Day
is Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD".
Did the God OF THE SABBATH vanish,
or has He changed?
Did He cease to exist?
No? He just changed?
So He never was
God with Whom there isn't shadow of change,
He never was
LORD of the Sabbath,
or of Israel?
He by the way now became the God of us,
the New Covenant believers’ ‘god’?
GOD HAS BEEN A LIAR AND DECEIVER
ALL ALONG ?!
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Why is it when people are shown something they can't argue against because the points made are solid they ignore it and continue on to something else as if the something else takes away from the truth they were shown? This thread is about Matthew 24. Prove the grammar and context isn't what is being shown to you or admit you have no substantial argument and then we can move on to these other text which you are ripping out of the context in which they are set. Here is a link to the post to which answered your misunderstanding of the text.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
I find it difficult to understand why those who oppose the observance of the Sabbath are so opposed that they have to defend their stubbornness with the same repeated texts ripped out of context and not saying the things they want them to say. These same objections to obedience to God's 4th commandment have been answered every time with good sound exegesis, but the stubbornness of disobedience demands these refutations to be ignored.
But righteousness and truth equally demands that these objections by the antinomians be answered again, else others get the idea that the repeated falsehoods they write of are truth. They are not.
First, the quote from 2 Corinthians 3. A couple of short easy to answer questions should deal with the objection. What is done away with? The law written on tables of stone, or the ministration of death that belonged to it?
Second question. What faded away? The law, or the glory that belonged to it?
Third question. Where in any of that chapter does it say that the law itself is done away with, or that the requirement and obligation to obey the law has faded away?
Quote 2. Colossians 2:16. Please prove that the weekly Sabbath was a shadow of something, anything, to come? If you cannot prove that from scripture, then the weekly Sabbath cannot be included in Paul's reference to Sabbath days that were shadows. There were Sabbath days that were shadows. Paul is saying let no man judge you if you choose to still observe them... Or not observe them.
Next reference quote, 1 John 3:21. Yes. Jesus gave a commandment that we ought to love one another. No debate from anyone, or argument from anywhere, that Christians should not love one another. That's a given, in fact so obvious that seriously, duh? Okay. That said, please prove from scripture, and list them if you can, any commandments of God that the particular love commandment replaced.
Now of course you might not be a biblical Christian. You might be, as Catholics are, of a persuasion that exalts tradition above scripture. That's fine if you want to do that, but in doing so you are inventing another religion. You observe your other religion, we'll observe ours.
Or perhaps you are of a mind that you can take scripture and make it mean something that was never intended. Then again, you have invented another religion. It seems the latter is the most popular persuasion for those who reinvent the 4th commandment, whether it becomes the 1st day, or eternal rest, or whatever day you like.
The thing is this. God gave
a commandment. You need to prove absolutely that the Commandment doesn't apply to you, or that God was kidding around, or has since changed His mind. In my 27 years of Sabbath keeping and almost the same time doing online apologetics, I have yet to come across any evidence God has done either of the above.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Seventh-day Adventists teach the ludicrous doctrine that the near the end of time the "mark of the best" of Revelation 14 will be placed upon those who worship on Sunday instead of Saturday.
Seventh-day Adventists have institutionalized deception.
Adventageous
Active Member
None so deaf as those who refuse to hear, and so blind as those who choose not to see.
See Study 10 - 13 Bible Studies (PDF), Prophecy, History, Theology, Legacy by brother Aaron Earnest : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
QUESTION: DOESN’T 2 CORINTHIANS 3 TEACH THAT THE TEN COMMANDMENTS ARE THE MINISTRATION OF DEATH AND ARE “DONE AWAY”?
No. Again, read carefully:
2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
Regarding 2 Corinthians 3:1-18, nowhere does the passage state that the Ten Commandments are the Old Covenant. Many simply assume, by a priori, that position, but no text is given to substantiate that the Ten Commandments are the Old Covenant. They will rightly link the Ten Commandments as they were written upon stone, as the ministration of death, but fail to see the opposite corollary, in that the Ten Commandments written upon the two fleshy tables of the heart, is the ministration of life and greater glory, thus seen reflected in the Christian's face, as it was in Christ's face. The “ministration” (how it was carried out in the life) needed to change. Not merely external laws written on stone tables, but internal and experienced laws written upon the heart. The Law remained the same. The ministration (how they are carried out, and seen) changes.
The law of God (The Ten Commandments, God's eternal covenant) merely written upon external cold stone tables, as duties to perform, based upon Israel after the flesh's old covenant agreement with God (Exo. 19) could never bring the change necessary to obey God in them fully. However, those same laws, as promises, in the New Covenant, written and sealed in the heart by the Holy Ghost would bring about the required change, even unto perfect obedience (Rev. 12:27, 14:1-12). Consider:
Two Glories in 2 Corinthians 3:7 | |
| [1] The glory of the Law of God, the Ten Commandments | “glory”, “that which remaineth”; 2 Corinthians 3:11; 2 Corinthians 4:4-6 |
| [2] The glory of Moses’ face, as reflecting the Law of God, the Ten Commandments on Two Tables of Stone (administration, ministration) | The “glory” as seen reflected in Moses’ “face”, “done away”; 2 Corinthians 3:7 (the koine Greek is clear), “abolished”; 2 Corinthians 3:13 |
2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
2Co 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
2Co 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
2Co 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
2 Corinthians 3-4; The Law of God – The Ten Commandments; 2 Ministrations (Change of one to the other), Same Law (Never Changes) | |
Old Testament – Old (temporary) Covenant; Exodus 19:8 | New Testament – New (Everlasting, Eternal) Covenant; Mal. 2:5; Jer. 31:31-34; Heb. 8:8-13, 10:16 |
The Letter (externally written by Holy Ghost (finger of God)) (ministration) | The Spirit (internally written by Holy Ghost (finger of God)) (ministration) |
Killeth (death) | Giveth Life (life) |
Engraven in stones | Written in our hearts |
Two Tables of Stone (external) | Two fleshy Tables of the Heart (two hemi-spheres of brain/mind) (internal) |
Moses’ face glorious (fallen short of perfect example of obedience) | Jesus’ face glorious (perfect example of obedience) (Exo. 33:12-23, 34:1-9, 20:5-7) |
“glory” - “done away” | “glory” - “remaineth” |
Abolished; 2 Corinthians 3:13 | Established; Romans 3:31 |
Mediator - Moses | Mediator – Jesus (better) |
“promises” (people, faulty), “we will” | “promises” (God, perfect), “I will” |
Mt. Sinai – Horeb on earth (location) | Mt. Zion in Heaven (location) |
Lack of faith (doubt) in God | Faith (trust) in God, of Jesus, & Victory |
Shed Blood of bulls and goats, calves, sheep, oxen | Shed Blood of Jesus |
Sacrifice of clean animals | Sacrifice of the Son of God, His perfect Life |
Golden Ark of the Covenant made by Moses | Golden (faith & love) Ark of the Heart made by God; Psalms 40:8 |
Levitical (Aaronic) priesthood (lesser, temporary) | Melchizedical (Jesus) priesthood (greater, eternal) |
Bondage, slavery | Liberty, freedom |
Works of the law (sacrifices, etc) | Faith which works |
Works for righteousness | Grace through faith unto good works, accounted and made righteous |
THAT WHICH STAYS THE SAME IN BOTH MINISTRATIONS | |
God (the Father); JEHOVAH, the Ancient of Days | |
Jesus (JEHOVAH), the Son of Man | |
The Holy Ghost/Spirit | |
Law of God – The Ten Commandments | |
Angels being present | |
The Sabbath of the LORD – the 7th Day – The Lord’s Day (Isaiah 58:13; Revelation 1:10), Sign of God’s eternal love; Isaiah 56:1,8; John 10:16; Isaiah 56:2-7. Creation - Redemption |
QUESTION: DIDN’T PAUL SAY IN 2 CORINTHIANS 3 THAT THE LAW OF GOD (TEN COMMANDMENTS) BRINGS DEATH, WHY?
Wrong ministration. An external law, not internalized, can only bring death, since the Law is never kept, and fulfilled in righteousness, but the Law itself was ordained to life.
[A.] Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
[B.] Jas_1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
[C.] 1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
[D.] Rom_7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Through the Holy Ghost, who writes the “my (God's) law (Ten Commandments)” (Jer. 31:31-34; Heb. 8:8-13, 10:16, &c) upon the heart, the Law is able to be fulfilled in the life:
Rom_8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Adventageous
Active Member
None so deaf as those who refuse to hear, and so blind as those who choose not to see.
See Study 11 - 13 Bible Studies (PDF), Prophecy, History, Theology, Legacy by brother Aaron Earnest : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
See also Colossians 2 Powerpoint - Colossians 2vs16 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
See Colossians 2, in depth study (only 3 parts recorded):
QUESTION: DOESN’T COLOSSIANS 2:14-16 TELL US THAT ALL SABBATHS ARE JUST A SHADOW, AND THAT AS CHRISTIANS, WE DON’T NEED TO WORRY ABOUT THAT COMMAND?
No. See COLOSSIANS 2:14-16 – Colossians 2 vs 14-16 Nutshell Image : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
and See COLOSSIANS 2 POWERPOINT – Colossians 2vs16 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
Col. 2:16 – Plural sabbaths, “σαββατων” (G4521), NGPN
Context: “shadow”, “ordinances”, “against”, “carnal”, “worldly sanctuary”, “things to come”
[1.] 7th day made for man before sin of man & need of type/shadow (Mark 2:27; Col. 1:16)
[2.] 7th day is an eternal memorial, pointing backwards, “Remember” (Exo. 20:8)
[3.] 7th day is singular and specific (“the”, “ה”, “ha”) (Exo. 20:8,10,11)
[4.] 7th day differs from yearly, 7th year, & 50th year festal types (Lev. 23:3,4,38, “Besides”), as they festal types are governed by “moons”, not so the 7th day, being light (Pro. 6:23)
[5.] 7th day is called, “the sabbath of the LORD” (Exo. 20:8-11), & “My [God’s, His] sabbaths” (Isa. 56:4; Eze. 20:20), as opposed to theirs, called “your sabbaths” (Lev. 26:34,35), & “her sabbaths” (Lev. 26:34,43; 2 Chr. 26:31; Lam. 1:7; Hos. 2:11)
[6.] 7th day is a “commandment” (Luke 23:54,56), never of the “ordinances” (Col. 2:14,20)
[7.] Col. 2, speaks of “sins” (Col. 2:13), being “transgression of the law” (1 John 3:4), of which the 4th Commandment (Exo. 20:8-11) is central, whereas the yearly [of years] festal sabbaths are not in the Ten Commandments, but given later under Levitical priesthood (Heb. 7:11) because of sin
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Temporary
Eternal & Everlasting
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“ordinances” [ie. Passover, &c.] – Col. 2:14
“Ten Commandments” – Exo. 34:28; Deut. 4:13, 10:4
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“carnal” [sacrifices, flesh is nailed to cross] – Heb. 9:10
“spiritual” [obedience; cannot be nailed to a cross] – Rom. 7:14, “the words … are spirit … life” – John 6:63
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“worldly” – Heb. 9:1
“heaven” – Exo. 20:22
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“shadow” – Col. 2:17
“light” – Pro. 6:23; Isa. 8:20, 51:4; Psa. 119:105
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“against us”, “contrary to us” – Col. 2:14
“the sabbath was made for [the] man” – Mark 2:27;
“the first man Adam … [&] the last Adam [Jesus]” – 1 Cor. 15:45;
“the second man is the Lord from Heaven” – 1 Cor. 15:47;
“all things were made … for him [Jesus]” – Col. 1:16
“Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid” – Gal. 3:21
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“to come” [future] – Col. 2:16; Eph. 2:17; Heb. 9:11, 10:1
“Remember” [memorial, past] – Exo. 20:8
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Paul reveals Jesus Christ died (Col. 2:12), by Crucifixion (Col. 2:14), to forgive us our sins (Col. 2:11-13).
“hand of Moses”: Lev. 8:36, 10:11, 26:46; Num. 4:37,45,49, 9:23, 10:13, 15:23, 16:40, 27:23, 36:13; Jos. 14:2, 20:2, 21:2,8, 22:9; Judg. 3:4; 1 Kin. 8:53,56; 2 Chr. 33:8, 35:6 (“ordinance”, Num. 9:12; Eze. 43:18); Neh. 9:14
Col. 2:16 [Paul] is citing Psa. 98:1-3 & Eze. 45:17, both of which follow the main pattern set in Num. 28-29:
Lev. 23:1-44, 25:1-22; Num. 28:1-31; 1 Chr. 23:31; 2 Chr. 2:4, 8:13, 31:3; Neh. 10:33; Isa. 1:13-14 (Isa. unique, a parallelism within itself); Eze. 45:17, 46:1-11; Hos. 2:11, and see also Gal. 4:10; Col. 2:16.
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Eze. 45, Col. 2, Eph. 2, Heb. 9-10 language comparison
Eze. 33:10 – “our sins … we pine away … how should we then live?”
Col. 2:13 – “you, being dead in your sins … hath he quickened together with him [Jesus]”
Eph. 2:5 – “we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ” Eze. 43:11,18, 44:5, 45:14, 46:14 – “ordinance”
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Col. 2:14 – “ordinances”
Eph. 2:15 – “in ordinances”
Heb. 9:1 – “ordinances of divine service”
Heb. 9:10 – “carnal ordinances”
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Eze. 45:17 – “meat offerings, drink offerings”
Col. 2:16 – “in meat, or in drink” [offerings]
Heb. 9:10 – “meats and drinks” [offerings]
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Col. 2:16 – “a shadow of things to come”
Eph. 2:7 – “in the ages to come”
Heb. 9:11 – “of good things to come”
Heb. 10:1 – “the law having a shadow of good things to come”, “those sacrifices”, “offered year by year”
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Eze. 45:17 – “feasts, … new moons … sabbaths”
Col. 2:16 – “an holyday … new moon … sabbath [days]”
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Col. 2:12 – “also ye are risen with him”
Eph. 2:6 – “raised us up together”
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Col. 2:2 – “riches”
Col. 2:3 – “treasures”
Eph. 2:7 – “riches”
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Col. 2:14 – “the handwriting of ordinances”
Eph. 2:15 – “the law of commandments contained in ordinances”
Heb. 9:19 – “Moses ... to the law ... blood ... book”
Heb. 9:22 – “by the law ... with blood”
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Col. 2:11 – “of the flesh”
Col. 2:13 – “flesh”
Eph. 2:3 – “flesh ... the flesh”
Eph. 2:11 – “in the flesh”
Eph. 2:15 – “in his flesh”
Heb. 9:13 – “flesh”
Heb. 10:20 – “his flesh” Col. 2:11 – “putting off the body of the sins”
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Heb. 9:26 – “put away sin”
Heb. 10:4 – “take away sins”
Heb. 10:9 – “He taketh away the first”
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Heb. 9:9 – “was a figure”
Heb. 9:23 – “the patterns”
Heb. 9:24 – “the figures”
Heb. 10:1 – “not the very image of the things"
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Some say the “handwriting of ordinances” is the record of sin (sin debt), but is that correct?
The words “χειρογραφον τοις δογμασιν” never mean ‘certificate of debt’ in scripture:
χειρογραφον [cheirographon] – G5498 N-ASN (cheiro: hand - 89; hands - 90) (graphon: written - 121, write - 50, wrote - 21, describeth – 1, writing – 1)
τοις [tois] – G3588 T-DPN (generally definite article, means: of, the, which, &c)
δογμασιν [dogmasin] – G1378 N-DPN (decrees - Luke 2:1; Acts 16:4, 17:7) (ordinances - Eph. 2:15; Col. 2:14,20)
Ordinances (12x - Exo. 12:14,17,43, 13:10; Num. 9:14 (x2), 10:8, 15:15 (x2), 19:2, 31:21; Eze. 46:14)
Ordinance 10x – (Lev. 18:3-4 (x2); Num. 9:12; Job 38:33; Jer. 31:35, 33:25; Eze. 43:11 (x2),18, 44:5 (see also “rites” (Num. 9:2-3)),
“ceremonies[ial laws]” 5x – (Jos. 24:25 (x2); 1 Sam. 30:25; 2 Chr. 35:13; Isa. 58:2
6x – 2 Kin. 17:34,37; 2 Chr. 33:8; Psa. 119:91; Isa. 58:2; Eze. 11:20Ordinances 12x - (Exo. 12:14,17,43, 13:10; Lev. 8:4; Num. 9:14 (x2), 10:8, 15:15 (x2), 19:2, 31:21; Eze. 46:14),
Ordinance 10x - Lev. 18:30; Num. 9:14 (x2), 10:8, 15:15 (x2), 19:2, 32:21; Eze. 46:14)
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[1.] Daily
[continual]
Num. 28:1-8, - “continual”, “day by day” the daily offerings
Eze. 45:17 - meat & drink offerings
Col. 2:16 - meat & drink [offerings]
Isa. 1:13-14 - oblations, incense
Hos. 2:11 - her mirth, see Neh. 8:12
Gal. 4:10 - days
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[2.] Weekly [never last]
Num. 28:9-10 KJB, - is the “every sabbath” on “the sabbath day” [weekly offerings]
It states “the sabbath day”, and “every sabbath”, literally “sabbath to sabbath”
[Num. 28:10 HOT Translit. - shaBat B'shaBaTô, see Isa. 66:23 HOT Translit. - shaBät B'shaBaTô]
The weekly sabbath is not listed in Eze. 45:17; Col. 2:16; Isa. 1:13-14; Hos. 2:11; Gal. 4:10.
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[3.] Monthly
[or seasons
Num. 28:11-15, - is the “beginnings of your months”, “every month” [offerings]
Eze. 45:17 - new moons
Col. 2:16 - new moon
Isa. 1:13-14 - Your new moons
Hos. 2:11 - her new moons
Gal. 4:10 - months
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[4.] Seasonal [or Month]
Num. 28:16-25, 26-31, 29:1-6, 7-11, 12-40 - feasts
Eze. 45:17 - feasts
Col. 2:16 - an holy day
Isa. 1:13-14 - appointed feasts
Hos. 2:11 - her feast days
Gal. 4:10 - times, αιρους
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[5.] Yearly [of Years]
Num. 28:16-31, 29:1-40 [Lev. 23 & 25] - the yearly sabbaths & offerings of it
Eze. 45:17 - in the sabbaths
Col. 2:16 - sabbath [days]
Isa. 1:13-14 - sabbaths, appointed feasts
Hos. 2:11 - her sabbaths
Gal. 4:10 - years
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Adventageous
Active Member
Moreover on Colossians 2:
Albert Barnes [Presbyterian]:
“... Or of the Sabbath days - Greek, “of the Sabbaths.” The word Sabbath in the Old Testament is applied not only to the seventh day, but to all the days of holy rest that were observed by the Hebrews, and particularly to the beginning and close of their great festivals. There is, doubtless, reference to those days in this place, since the word is used in the plural number, and the apostle does not refer particularly to the Sabbath properly so called. There is no evidence from this passage that he would teach that there was no obligation to observe any holy time, for there is not the slightest reason to believe that he meant to teach that one of the ten commandments had ceased to be binding on mankind. If he had used the word in the singular number - “the Sabbath,” it would then, of course, have been clear that he meant to teach that that commandment had ceased to be binding, and that a Sabbath was no longer to be observed. But the use of the term in the plural number, and the connection, show that he had his eye on the great number of days which were observed by the Hebrews as festivals, as a part of their ceremonial and typical law, and not to the moral law, or the Ten Commandments. No part of the moral law - no one of the ten commandments could be spoken of as “a shadow of good things to come.” These commandments are, from the nature of moral law, of perpetual and universal obligation. ...”
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Adam Clarke [Methodist]:
“... There is no intimation here that the Sabbath was done away, or that its moral use was superseded, by the introduction of Christianity. I have shown elsewhere that, Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, is a command of perpetual obligation, and can never be superseded but by the final termination of time. ...”
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Jamieson, Fausset and Brown [theologians]:
“... the sabbath — Omit “THE,” which is not in the Greek (compare Note, see on Gal_4:10). “SABBATHS” (not “the sabbaths”) of the day of atonement and feast of tabernacles have come to an end with the Jewish services to which they belonged (Lev_23:32, Lev_23:37-39). The weekly sabbath rests on a more permanent foundation, having been instituted in Paradise to commemorate the completion of creation in six days. Lev_23:38 expressly distinguished “the sabbath of the Lord” from the other sabbaths. A positive precept is right because it is commanded, and ceases to be obligatory when abrogated; a moral precept is commanded eternally, because it is eternally right. If we could keep a perpetual sabbath, as we shall hereafter, the positive precept of the sabbath, one in each week, would not be needed. Heb_4:9, “rests,” Greek, “keeping of sabbath” (Isa_66:23). But we cannot, since even Adam, in innocence, needed one amidst his earthly employments; therefore the sabbath is still needed and is therefore still linked with the other nine commandments, as obligatory in the spirit, though the letter of the law has been superseded by that higher spirit of love which is the essence of law and Gospel alike (Rom_13:8-10).”
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Justin Edwards [Congregationalist]:
“… A holy-day-sabbath-days; in the original, a festival-sabbaths. The days referred to are those required to be observed in the ceremonial law-days associated by God with meats, drinks, and new moons. The passage does not refer to the Sabbath of the moral law, associated with the commands forbidding theft, murder, and adultery. This weekly Sabbath was never against men or contrary to them, but was always for them, and promotive of their highest good. The observance of it caused them to ride upon the high places of the earth, and to possess the heritage of God’s people. Isaiah 58:13-14; Jeremiah 17:21-27. …”
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Moses’ Law
God’s Law (Ten Commandments)
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Called “the law of Moses” (Jos. 23:6; Luke 2:22; 1 Cor. 9:9, &c)
Called “the ten commandments” of the LORD [JEHOVAH] (Exo. 34:28; Deut. 4:13, 10:4)
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Spoken by God through Moses (Exo. 35:4; Num. 30:1; Lev. 10:11; Deut. 4:14,45; Heb. 9:19; &c)
Spoken directly by God without Moses (Exo. 20:22; Deut. 4:12-13,15; Neh. 9:13)
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Called [carnal] “ordinances” (Num. 9:12; 2 Chro. 33:8; Eze. 43:11,18, 44:5, 45:14, 46:14; Col. 2:14; Eph. 2:15; Heb. 9:1,10)
Called “the royal [kingly] law” (Jam. 2:8-11, see also Num. 23:21; Psa. 44:4, 47:7, 68:24, 74:12, 84:3, 95:3, 145:1; Isa. 44:6; Jer. 10:10; Dan. 2:37; 1 Tim. 6:15; Rev. 17:14, 19:16)
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Written by Moses at God’s command (Exo. 17:14, 24:4, 34:27; Deut. 31:9; Neh. 8:14; Mark 10:4, 12:19; Luke 20:28; John 1:45, 5:46)
Written directly by God, “finger”, “[Holy] Spirit” (Exo. 31:18, 32:16, 34:1,28; Deut. 9:10; Matt. 12:28; Luke 11:20)
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In A Book (Exo. 17:14; Deut. 31:24; 2 Chro. 34:14, 35:12; Ezra 6:18; Neh. 13:1; Mark 12:26; Heb. 9:19)
Originally on 2 Tables Of The Sapphire Stone [later on regular stone and later on the two tables of the Heart/mind] (Exo. 24:10,12, 31:18, 34:1,4,28; Deut. 10:3-4; Num. 15:38-39; Jer. 31:31-34; Eze. 1:25-28, 10:1, 11:19-20, 36:26-27; Heb. 8:8-13, 10:16; 2 Cor. 3:3,6)
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Many decrees to do with worldly sanctuary (Lev. 18:5, 20:22; Deut. 4:1,5; Psa. 18:22; Mal. 4:4)
“the ten commandments” (Exo. 34:28; Deut. 4:13, 10:4), the “whole” duty of [the] man [all in Adam the first and last] (Ecc. 12:13-14; Psa. 119:96); heavenly sanctuary (Heb. 8:2, 9:11; Rev. 11:19, 15:5)
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Placed “in the side [outside] of the ark” (Deut. 31:26, see also 1 Kin. 8:9)
Placed “into [inside] the ark” (Exo. 40:20; Deut. 5:1-5)
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Abolished in Jesus’ flesh at Calvary/Cross (Eph. 2:15), “till the seed should come”, “time of reformation” (Gal. 3:19; Heb. 9:10)
“will I not break … nor alter”, “settled for ever”, “everlasting”, “founded them for ever”, “endureth for ever” (Deut. 4:2; Psa. 89:34, 111:7-8, 119:89,142,152,160,172; Matt. 5:17; Rev. 11:19, 15:5, a written transcript of God’s own character/glory – Exo. 33:12-23, 34:1-9, 20:5-7)
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“Added [to an already existing Law] because of transgressions [sin]“ (Gal. 3:19)
Already existed from the beginning (Gen. 4:7, 16:5, 5:16, 18:20, 19:15, 20:9, 31:36, 39:9, 44:16; Exo. 9:27,34, 10:16-17; Job 1:5,22, 7:20, 8:4, 22:15-17, 24:19, 31:33, 33:27; Isa. 3:9; Lam. 4:6; Eze. 28:12-19; Rom. 2:12, 3:23, 5:12-21; 2 Cor. 11:3; 1 Tim. 2:14; 2 Pet. 2:4; Jude 1:6)
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More given throughout Israel’s [after the flesh] journey (Exo. 30:22; Lev. 4:1)
Self Contained, Complete, “added no more” (Deut. 5:22)
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Changeable [Type to Antitype] (Acts 6:14; Heb. 7:12,18)
Cannot be altered, “sure” (Psa. 89:34, 111:7-8), unchangeable as God (Exo. 33:12-23, 34:1-9, 20:5-7; Psa. 102:12,25-27; Mal.i 3:6; Heb. 1:10-12, 13:8)
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“Against us”, “contrary to us” (Deut. 4:26, 30:19, 31:19,21,26,38; Jos. 24:22; Col. 2:14)
“not grievous” (1 John 5:3), “made for [the] man” (Mark 2:27), “good” (Rom. 7:12,16; 1 Tim. 1:8), the law is not “against the promises” (Gal. 3:21), but the Ten Commandments are in fact all promises of God in the New and Everlasting Covenant (Eph. 6:2; Heb. 8:6, &c)
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Identifies [Points to] the Saviour [Jesus] (Gen. 3:15,21; 22:8 Exo. 12:3-11; John 1:29,36; Rev. 13:8)
Identifies [Points out] sin (Rom. 3:20, 7:7,14; Jam. 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4)
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Not to be judged by (Col. 2:16-17)
Judges all (Ecc. 12:13-14; Rom. 7:7,14; Jam. 2:10-13; 1 John 3:4)
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“carnal”, “worldly” (Col. 2:8,20; Heb. 7:16, 9:1,10)
“spiritual” (Rom. 7:14,22), “spirit” (John 6:63; Exo. 31:18, 32:16, 34:1,28; Deut. 9:10; Matt. 12:28; Luke 11:20)
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Their faulty promises were a “yoke”, “of bondage” (Acts 15:10,24; Gal. 5:1; Heb. 8:7-9; Exo. 19:8)
“walk at liberty”, “law of liberty”, “free” (Psa. 119:45; Jam. 1:25, 2:12; Isa. 58:6,13; John 8:32-36; Exo. 20:2; Deut. 5:6; Matt. 5:19; Rom. 6:22, 8:2: Gal. 4:26,31, 5:1: 1 Pet. 2:16)
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“made nothing” “perfect” (Heb. 7:19, 9:9, 10:1; Gal. 3:3)
Is “perfect” (Exo. 32:16; Deut. 32:4; 2 Sam. 22:31; Psa. 18:30, 19:7, 40:8; Rom. 2:12; 2 Tim. 3:16-17; Jam. 1:25)
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“ceased”, “abolished” , “remaineth no more sacrifice for sin” (Dan. 9:27; Eph. 2:15; Heb. 10:26)
“magnified” by Jesus/Calvary (Isa. 42:21; Matt. 5:1-7:29; Rom. 3:31)
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A “whole law” which cannot justify for salvation (Gal. 5:1-3)
A “whole duty” to do through faith & Holy Spirit (Ecc. 12:13-14; Luke 17:10; Eph. 2:8-10; Tit. 3:4-8)
Adventageous
Active Member
None so deaf as those who refuse to hear, and so blind as those who choose not to see.
1 John 3:23:
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
[1] believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ (Faith, and love towards God)
[2] love one another (love towards mankind)
How do we believe and love God, and "one another"?
[God]
Deu 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. (context, 10 Commandments, Deut. 5)
[fellow mankind]
Lev 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him. (sin is the transgression of the Law of God, 10 Commandments, 1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7,14; James 2:7-13)
Lev 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
Who says so? Jesus:
Mat_22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Mar 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
Mar 12:31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
Luk 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Luk 10:26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
Luk 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
Luk 10:28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
Who else says so? Paul:
Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Who else says so? James:Jas 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
Jas 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
The "name" of Jesus, means [JEHOVAH is my Salvation (from sin, 1 John 3:4)] :
Mat_1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
[1] First we trangress against the Person/Being, God, our Father
[2] second, we transgress against the written transcript of His perfect loving charcater, the Law (10 Commandments) of God.
The Law of God (10 Commandments) is/are the written transcript of the name (character, "for as his name is, so is he", 1 Sam. 25:25) of JEHOVAH
Exo 33:12 And Moses said unto the LORD, See, thou sayest unto me, Bring up this people: and thou hast not let me know whom thou wilt send with me. Yet thou hast said, I know thee by name, and thou hast also found grace in my sight.
Exo 33:13 Now therefore, I pray thee, if I have found grace in thy sight, shew me now thy way, that I may know thee, that I may find grace in thy sight: and consider that this nation is thy people.
Exo 33:14 And he said, My presence shall go with thee, and I will give thee rest.
Exo 33:15 And he said unto him, If thy presence go not with me, carry us not up hence.
Exo 33:16 For wherein shall it be known here that I and thy people have found grace in thy sight? is it not in that thou goest with us? so shall we be separated, I and thy people, from all the people that are upon the face of the earth.
Exo 33:17 And the LORD said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken: for thou hast found grace in my sight, and I know thee by name.
Exo 33:18 And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.
Exo 33:19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.
Exo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
Exo 33:21 And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
Exo 33:22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
Exo 33:23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.
Exo 34:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.
Exo 34:2 And be ready in the morning, and come up in the morning unto mount Sinai, and present thyself there to me in the top of the mount.
Exo 34:3 And no man shall come up with thee, neither let any man be seen throughout all the mount; neither let the flocks nor herds feed before that mount.
Exo 34:4 And he hewed two tables of stone like unto the first; and Moses rose up early in the morning, and went up unto mount Sinai, as the LORD had commanded him, and took in his hand the two tables of stone.
Exo 34:5 And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD.
Exo 34:6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
Exo 34:7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.
Exo 34:8 And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped.
Exo 34:9 And he said, If now I have found grace in thy sight, O Lord, let my Lord, I pray thee, go among us; for it is a stiffnecked people; and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for thine inheritance.
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Exo 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
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mailmandan
Well-Known Member
If the truth is what you are looking for, then you will find it in the articles that I shared in post #103 and post $110. If accommodating your biased church doctrine is the only thing you are interested in, then you won't accept the truth no matter how many times that I explain it to you.
Even when modern day sabbatarians set out to keep the sabbath day, are they truly "keeping the sabbath?" To "keep the sabbath" as it was required in the Old Testament under the old covenant of law would involve compliance with specific regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced.
With sabbath day observances there were burnt offerings which went along with them (Numbers 28:10; 29:39-40; 2 Chronicles 2:4; 31:3; Nehemiah 10:33). Also, no kindling a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath (Exodus 35:3). Every man must remain in his place on the sabbath. (Exodus 16:29) No trading. (Amos 8:5) No marketing. (Nehemiah 10:31; 13:15,19) These were commanded by God to Israel. (Exodus 31:16; 35:1; Deuteronomy 5:15)
Sabbath keeping with all it's regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel (Exodus 16:23, 29; 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3, 32; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5; Nehemiah 10:31) that is not binding on the Church under the new covenant. (Romans 14:5; Galatians 4:9-11; Colossians 2:16-17)
If the seventh day sabbath law is still in affect, then why don't sabbatarians seek to obey ALL that the LORD commanded? How can a person keep a certain law when he only keeps part of it? If the sabbath day laws were still in effect today, then according to Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3 and Numbers 15:32-36, anyone who profaned the sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people.
Now who is going to enforce that? The Jewish synagogue or perhaps the Seventh day Adventist church? Since we do not live under a theocratic state as ancient Israel did under the old covenant, no sabbatarian can live consistently under these Mosaic regulations.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
The words "ton sabbaton" or "sabbath days"; are the same words translated "Sabbath day" in Exodus 20:8 in the Septuagint.
Paul's reasoning, "Let no one judge you regarding a,
festival - yearly Sabbaths,
a new moon - monthly Sabbaths,
or a Sabbath day - weekly Sabbaths
CHRIST, he goes on to say is the "Substance", these things were shadows.
When this passage is compared with Galatians 4:9 an obvious connection in Paul's teaching is revealed:
"But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? You observe days and months and seasons and years."
Verse 10 clearly states, "you observe...",
days (weekly Sabbaths, corresponding to "Sabbath days in Colossians 2)
months (new moons, corresponding to "a new moon" in Colossians 2)
seasons (the 7 feasts, corresponding to "festivals" in Colossians 2)
and years (the sabbatical year and the 50th year of Jubilee)
Obviously Paul is clearing speaking about the observances of all Jewish holy days, including the weekly Sabbath.
When God wants to refer to the whole system of Jewish holy days, rather than name them all, He would refer to the yearly, monthly and weekly as representing the whole system. SDA's argue that the Sabbath Day of Colossians 2:16 is the years Sabbaths. But yearly Sabbaths were already referred to in Colossians 2:16 as "festivals". The "Year, Month, Week" pattern is so well established in the Old Testament, that Colossians 2:16 must refer to the weekly Sabbath.
Yearly, monthly, weekly pattern proves it is the weekly sabbath
1 Chronicles 23:31 - Yearly (fixed festivals), monthly (new moons), weekly (Sabbaths)
2 Chronicles 2:4 - Yearly (appointed feasts), monthly (new moons), weekly (Sabbaths)
2 Chronicles 8:13 - Yearly (annual feasts), monthly (new moons), weekly (Sabbaths)
2 Chronicles 31:3 - Yearly (fixed festivals), monthly (new moons), weekly (Sabbaths)
Nehemiah 10:33 - Yearly (appointed times), monthly (new moon), weekly (Sabbaths)
Isaiah 1:13-14 - Yearly (appointed feasts), monthly (new moon), weekly (Sabbath)
Ezekiel 45:17 - Yearly (appointed feasts), monthly (new moons), weekly (Sabbaths)
Ezek 46:1-11 - Yearly (appointed feasts), monthly (new moons), weekly (Sabbath)
Hosea 2:11 - Yearly (festal assemblies), monthly (new moons), weekly (Sabbaths)
Galatians 4:10 - years, months, days
Colossians 2:16 - festival, new moon, Sabbath day
Johann
Well-Known Member
Plenty Imperatives in the New Covenant, to be practiced and obeyed.....but I am not going to argue.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Save it. I have already heard enough of these same long winded posts full of scripture twisting, trickery, deceit, rhetoric and SDA propaganda from other SDA's on the Christian Forums site. Are you familiar with two SDA's who go by the avatar names of LoveGodsWord and Bob Ryan?
Adventageous
Active Member
Your Galatians 4:10 is backwards, but I see why you have to change God's word to fit the sinful (1 John 3:4) lifestyle:
Gal 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
Now it fits perfectly with all the texts I provided. Weekly is not in the texts I provided, at all.
Adventageous
Active Member
Yes. I know them (LoveGod'sWord (brother D.) and Bob Ryan) as well as others, IcySpark, Brakelite, AWHN, etc.
I also know you from many forums and from scripture (KJB).
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