Who I believe God’s elect are

[ttruscott]

Well, for starters, all you have to do is look at everyone ... they're all sinners, every one.
Then, how about the 10+ verses which teach original sin and man's sin nature?

I'd like those 10+ verse please, most people only have one...!

As for everyone is a sinner, every one .... that is because this is the place, the reform planet, every sinful elect person comes to be redeemed and sanctified unto holness, AND some of HIS eternal enemies are here also to provide the bad examples we need to come to the decision that GOD is correct to damn them all.

God bless...

Ted

 

[justaname]

I'd like those 10+ verse please, most people only have one...!

As for everyone is a sinner, every one .... that is because this is the place, the reform planet, every sinful elect person comes to be redeemed and sanctified unto holness, AND some of HIS eternal enemies are here also to provide the bad examples we need to come to the decision that GOD is correct to damn them all.

God bless...

Ted

Respectfully, what you say goes against loving your enemy, sharing the gospel, love itself, and so many other things it's almost silly. The bad examples need love and encouragement, not your prejudgement.

 

[John Zain]

I'd like those 10+ verses please, most people only have one

Please see the new thread.

 

[ttruscott]

Respectfully, what you say goes against loving your enemy, sharing the gospel, love itself, and so many other things it's almost silly. The bad examples need love and encouragement, not your prejudgement.

Do you know the phrase from Long John Baldry. "Don't you lay no boogie woogie on the king of rock and roll!" ? Great tune by the way.

Respectfully, your interpretation of what I wrote goes against loving your enemy, sharing the gospel, love itself, and so many other things it's almost silly. goes against yourself but not me as I don't interpret it that way, for GOD's sun and rain fall on reprobate and sinful church member alike, so please don't paint me with your brush.

Do you imply that I can only love my neighbour if I'm mistaken about his identity as non-elect?

Matthew 5:43-48
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’
44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Are my enemies only worldy and not spiritual enemies? Are not the non-elect the ones most likely to be persecuting me?

God bless,

Ted

I'd like those 10+ verse please, most people only have one...!
...

Ahhh , yes, I see my mistake.

I jumped to the conclusion that your 10+ verses on all of us are born sinful meant they also taught original Adamic sin, as being the source of our sin.

As far as I know, only one verse puts the doctrine of our being born into sin onto Adam.

Since it seems to deny free will I discount it, and look elsewhere.

God bless...

Ted

 

[Episkopos]

Romans 8:
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God,
to those who are the called according to His purpose.
29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son,
that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called;
whom He called, these He also justified;
and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Jews, Christians, and Muslims believe that God is omni-everything.
He knows everything (past, present, future), He sees the end from the beginning, etc.

It is my belief that God predestines, elects, calls, justifies, and glorifies ONLY the elect ...
ONLY those people whose hearts are willing to be sanctified (set apart and made holy) by God.

Scripture describes man as being totally sinful, rebellious, at enmity with God, etc.
but evidently some do not quite fit this mold.
Maybe God actually predestines them to be molded (i.e. created) this way.

Romans 9:11, 9:16, etc. says election has nothing to do with what people will DO after they are born.

The elect …
8:28 … love God
8:29 … are foreknown to be pleasing to Him
8:29 … are predestined to be sanctified (made as sinless and holy as Jesus was)
8:30 … are predestined, called, justified, glorified

This unusual heart attitude of being willing to be sanctified agrees with …
Matthew 7:
14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to (eternal) life,
and there are few who find it.

Many accept Jesus and step through the narrow door...but few actually walk on the narrow path so as to be also chosen.

 

[justaname]

Do you know the phrase from Long John Baldry. "Don't you lay no boogie woogie on the king of rock and roll!" ? Great tune by the way.

Respectfully, your interpretation of what I wrote goes against loving your enemy, sharing the gospel, love itself, and so many other things it's almost silly. goes against yourself but not me as I don't interpret it that way, for GOD's sun and rain fall on reprobate and sinful church member alike, so please don't paint me with your brush.

Do you imply that I can only love my neighbour if I'm mistaken about his identity as non-elect?

Matthew 5:43-48
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’
44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Are my enemies only worldy and not spiritual enemies? Are not the non-elect the ones most likely to be persecuting me?

God bless,

Ted



Ahhh , yes, I see my mistake.

I jumped to the conclusion that your 10+ verses on all of us are born sinful meant they also taught original Adamic sin, as being the source of our sin.

As far as I know, only one verse puts the doctrine of our being born into sin onto Adam.

Since it seems to deny free will I discount it, and look elsewhere.

God bless...

Ted

Maybe I am mistaken about what you mean in "AND some of HIS eternal enemies are here also to provide the bad examples we need to come to the decision that GOD is correct to damn them all."

Again the teaching is to love you enemies.
Matthew 5:44
44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

Please expound on your statement so as I may come to a complete understanding of what it is you are attempting to convey. From what you posted above it seems like you are playing both sides of the fence, but again I am the one who does not understand.

 

[Hollyrock]

Romans 8:
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God,
to those who are the called according to His purpose.
29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son,
that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called;
whom He called, these He also justified;
and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Jews, Christians, and Muslims believe that God is omni-everything.
He knows everything (past, present, future), He sees the end from the beginning, etc.

It is my belief that God predestines, elects, calls, justifies, and glorifies ONLY the elect ...
ONLY those people whose hearts are willing to be sanctified (set apart and made holy) by God.

Scripture describes man as being totally sinful, rebellious, at enmity with God, etc.
but evidently some do not quite fit this mold.
Maybe God actually predestines them to be molded (i.e. created) this way.

Romans 9:11, 9:16, etc. says election has nothing to do with what people will DO after they are born.

The elect …
8:28 … love God
8:29 … are foreknown to be pleasing to Him
8:29 … are predestined to be sanctified (made as sinless and holy as Jesus was)
8:30 … are predestined, called, justified, glorified

This unusual heart attitude of being willing to be sanctified agrees with …
Matthew 7:
14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to (eternal) life,
and there are few who find it.

God is not willing that any should perish, after all, He so loved the WORLD and sent His only begotten Son so that none would have to perish. However, He gave man choice and free-will and being God,He knew what each man's choice would be.

 

[justaname]

God is not willing that any should perish, after all, He so loved the WORLD and sent His only begotten Son so that none would have to perish. However, He gave man choice and free-will and being God,He knew what each man's choice would be.

Being the Living God He has made a Name for Himself here, and I proclaim Jesus Christ being the Eternal Father of both the dead and the living. The Name above all names, let Jesus Christ invoke love like no other. Against all evils, collective with the Father. His eternal presence above all high places, knowing the complete depths of creation, my God. Being free He is free indeed, boundless to limits except those He sets, and the free choice is to be made for the one that follows Him. I pray for all to come to the Father, yet trust in the Son to be a Holy and Righteous Judge.

 

[Episkopos]

I think we have been led to believe that the elect are rich Westerners!

 

[ttruscott]

Maybe I am mistaken about what you mean in "AND some of HIS eternal enemies are here also to provide the bad examples we need to come to the decision that GOD is correct to damn them all."
...

On earth it is clear we humans are split into two main groups: the elect and the non-elect or: those predestined to be conformed to the image of HIS Son and those predestined to the lake of fire.

Why do we live together?
Why must the elect suffer under the evil of the non-elect?

In sum, I believe that some of GOD's elect rebelled against HIS call to come out from among HIS eternal enemies, and became sinful, fallen elect who would perish if the judgement was not postponed until they repented of their idolatry of the non-elect and became Holy in HIS sight, ie ready to damn the non-elect also.

That is why we live with HIS eternal enemies: to learn the nature of the suffering that sin causes, to learn the eternal nature of their evil (5000 years and counting...) and that they will/can never repent so they must be removed.

So, essentially this place is for the elect to choose holiness but the reason they so choose (since the love of Christ is not enough to sanctify us) is what they learn about suffering from the non-elect now that they are in a body that can suffer.

Pretty well everything else is ordinary...

The long version has many scriptural supports which make it very lonnnnnnnnnng...available on request! :)

God bless,

Ted

 

[justaname]

On earth it is clear we humans are split into two main groups: the elect and the non-elect or: those predestined to be conformed to the image of HIS Son and those predestined to the lake of fire.

Why do we live together?
Why must the elect suffer under the evil of the non-elect?

In sum, I believe that some of GOD's elect rebelled against HIS call to come out from among HIS eternal enemies, and became sinful, fallen elect who would perish if the judgement was not postponed until they repented of their idolatry of the non-elect and became Holy in HIS sight, ie ready to damn the non-elect also.

That is why we live with HIS eternal enemies: to learn the nature of the suffering that sin causes, to learn the eternal nature of their evil (5000 years and counting...) and that they will/can never repent so they must be removed.

So, essentially this place is for the elect to choose holiness but the reason they so choose (since the love of Christ is not enough to sanctify us) is what they learn about suffering from the non-elect now that they are in a body that can suffer.

Pretty well everything else is ordinary...

The long version has many scriptural supports which make it very lonnnnnnnnnng...available on request! :)

God bless,

Ted

I do not disagree God is correct in damning those He judges. What I present is what we are taught by God, to love your enemies, elect or non-elect.

To be sure also, sanctification comes from the HolySpirit. It is the love of Christ that led Him to the cross, so yes it is enough to give us sanctification.

What I see here in this world are human beings, born into total depravity, in bondage to sin. Jesus Christ being the only solution to sin and the final judgement. God wants all to be reconciled to Him, yet He knows the hearts that will be. I know only what is revealed to me through His word, being the foremost authority, and His HolySpirit, being the final authority. Thereby every person I see is another person waiting to be set free of the trappings of this world.

I have a neighbor who is vehemently atheist. He told me he was born and forced Catholic. He obviously left the church. Long story short I told him God wants to deliver us from evil, which he denied. "It doesn't say that in the Bible" he said. He was trying to go so far as to say evil didn't exist, which I disproved. Then he stood on, "Well I don't believe in sin." I cited the Lords prayer, and he melted. Then I said, "To be bold, everything everywhere wants to be delivered from evil." It is Satan that needs to be rebuked, not the nonbeliever. I can only attempt to retrieve from the claws of Satan, as many as I can, God willing. To be sure it says to love your neighbor as yourself. I can only pray God gives me the wisdom, time, and perseverance to awake my neighbor for his impending doom. Do you not think he belittles my view, and my God, yet I accept that in humility, by the love and grace given by the HolySpirit. Should I be surprised he sees the cross as foolishness? If I gave up on him, I might as well give up on myself. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you? Or should I set myself at the "Christian hypocrite standard?"

Matthew 25:31-46

I will show kindness to the least of all of these, by loving my enemy. To be great in the Kingdom of God is to be servant to all. I will serve the elect as well as the non-elect.

 

[Lively Stone]

Learn about suffering from the "non-elect"??? What convolution!

We suffer because we live in a fallen world along with the unsaved and the saved alike. God doesn't CHOOSE who will and who will not become His elect. He KNOWS who will and who will not be His elect. WE do the choosing. He has a sovereign plan for EVERYONE, and that is that everyone come to know Him and become the image of His Son, Jesus Christ.

We are ALL predestined to the Lake of Fire at birth, and it is by the work and the call of Holy Spirit that the truth of Jesus Christ as Saviour and Redeemer is revealed to us. Those of us who receive Christ are then considered predestined to become like Jesus.

In fact, we must remember that the word 'elect' most often refers to the Jew:

Romans 11:28
With respect to the gospel, they are enemies for your sake, but with respect to election, they are dearly loved for the sake of the fathers.

From a respectable site I trust:

In Old testament times, the elect were God’s Chosen people, the Jews (Isaiah 45:4). During this age the Church is God’s elect (1 Peter 1:1), and after the Church is gone Tribulation believers will be His elect. (Matt. 24:22) In the Millennium, Israel will once again be called God’s elect (Isaiah 65:22)

http://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/who-are-the-elect/

 

[justaname]

“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. "
John 6:44

God picks those who will come to Him.
Romans 3:11
No one seeks God, no not one. It is God who chose us since before the foundations of the world for His purpose, not ours. Those He destines for mercy shall receive it, and those to perish will receive that.
To be bold, God sought me before I ever even knew Him, even though I knew about Him. I was a universalist, until He intervened. Blessed be His holy name forever for allowing me to serve in His truth. If it were not for Him, I would still be serving myself.

 

[Lively Stone]

“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. "
John 6:44

God picks those who will come to Him.
Romans 3:11
No one seeks God, no not one. It is God who chose us since before the foundations of the world for His purpose, not ours. Those He destines for mercy shall receive it, and those to perish will receive that.
To be bold, God sought me before I ever even knew Him, even though I knew about Him. I was a universalist, until He intervened. Blessed be His holy name forever for allowing me to serve in His truth. If it were not for Him, I would still be serving myself.

justaname, do you not believe that God seeks after everyone?

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord isn’t really being slow about his promise, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent.

 

[justaname]

I believe some are destined for the lake of fire, and others that are saved in the HolySpirit, through the work of the Son, by the Promise of the Father. God wants all to come to Him, as all will, at His time appointed, and receive His holy judgement. Our God is just in His judgement, and in His ways I trust.
The wicked will be removed from His sheep. Selah

 

[Lively Stone]

I believe some are destined for the lake of fire, and others that are saved in the HolySpirit, through the work of the Son, by the Promise of the Father. God wants all to come to Him, as all will, at His time appointed, and receive His holy judgement. Our God is just in His judgement, and in His ways I trust.
The wicked will be removed from His sheep. Selah

Yes, many are destined for judgment, but not predetermined, for all have the opportunity for saving faith, Jews and Gentiles alike:

Romans 2:14-15
Even Gentiles, who do not have God’s written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it. They demonstrate that God’s law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right.

 

[FHII]

Yes, many are destined for judgment, but not predetermined, for all have the opportunity for saving faith, Jews and Gentiles alike:

Could you give some light on this verse?

Jud 1:4

For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Lively Stone]

Jude 1:3-4 NLT
The Danger of False Teachers

[sup]3[/sup] Dear friends, I had been eagerly planning to write to you about the salvation we all share. But now I find that I must write about something else, urging you to defend the faith that God has entrusted once for all time to his holy people. [sup]4[/sup] I say this because some ungodly people have wormed their way into your churches, saying that God’s marvelous grace allows us to live immoral lives. The condemnation of such people was recorded long ago, for they have denied our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.


False teachers such as these are included among what we call 'tares' in the Body of Christ and are demon-inspired, and who have Hellfire as their final end, and this proscription has been standing since the beginning for all who oppose God in this way.

 

[FHII]

Yea... Thanks lively stone... The NLT cleaned that up nicely... Don't mention those of old ordained to condemnation.... That's what this is about, by the way. Those false teachers aren't the "tares" by the way.... Nor are they demon inspired. They are those who are to bundle up the tares, and they are God inspired.

Jesus spoke in parables. Why? So some wouldn't understand the truth. If he spoke plainly, they would've understood and their sins would've been forgiven. Jesus didn't want that. I'd give you a Bible verse on that, if you'd like....

 

[Lively Stone]

Who are to bundle up the tares, and who are God-inspired? Those false teachers?