Who I believe God’s elect are

[Lively Stone]

seems to contradict:




In peace,

Ted

There is no contradiction. We are all born spiritually dead, but god gives us each an opportunity to know Him and to become reborn. None of us have been predetermined to the Lake of Fire, but have all been offered the same hope--Jesus Christ---and the same choice: accept Jesus Christ as your substitute for judgment and live. Reject Him and die.

 

[John Zain]

He loved the world, not everyone in it. Many if not all the parables demonstrate this. Furthermore, in the very parable
we started this discourse (the bundling of the tares) Jesus said the world was the field and people were the seed.
The world does not mean all people. Otherwise, Jesus would've said "God so loved everyone..."
If you read all of John Chapter 3 you can see it's more of a warning than it is "God loves everybody".

I just knew I'd get around to this eventually ...
Years ago, a man who was prophesying in our church said to me ...
Many of the warnings to Christians (in the NT) are just threats/bluffs.

God can have such things written in such a way that they're not lies.
Example: If anyone (i.e. the elect) believes, they will be saved.

 

[FHII]

I just knew I'd get around to this eventually ...
Years ago, a man who was prophesying in our church said to me ...
Many of the warnings to Christians (in the NT) are just threats/bluffs.

God can have such things written in such a way that they're not lies.
Example: If anyone (i.e. the elect) believes, they will be saved.

Don't understand what you are getting at John, nor your connection to what I said to the man who was prophesying in your church. The only thing I can think of is that I noted John 3 as a warning, but that is still befuddling to me. You said that man in your church said that many of the warnings are threats or bluffs. I never said that nor hinted at it. Personally I believe all the warnings are meant to be taken seriously.

The problem with John 3:16 is -- that as beautiful as it is -- it's not the end of the chapter, nor the gospel. Yet people want to say it's "the gospel in a nutshell". It's not, and it's taken out of context. I don't even know if I could point to a verse and say that. If I did, it would be Matthew 22:37 -40 (and most people screw that up by believing it says merely, "love your neighbor").

So when you look at John 3:16 it doesn't say God loves everybody. God loves only them that believe in him. You get down to verses 18 and 19, then you see the warning. In fact, it's not only a warning, its telling the truth.

 

[Lively Stone]

He loved the world, not everyone in it. Many if not all the parables demonstrate this. Furthermore, in the very parable we started this discourse (the bundling of the tares) Jesus said the world was the field and people were the seed.

The world does not mean all people. Otherwise, Jesus would've said "God so loved everyone..." If you read all of John Chapter 3 you can see it's more of a warning than it is "God loves everybody".

Loved??? It's LOVES! and the world is EVERYONE. The truth is that not everyone whom God loves comes to love the Lord back and therefore is not part of the Kingdom. It is pretty dangerous to over-interpret parables.

Matthew 13:37-38
[sup]37[/sup] Jesus replied, “The Son of Man is the farmer who plants the good seed. [sup]38[/sup] The field is the world, and the good seed represents the people of the Kingdom. The weeds are the people who belong to the evil one.

The problem with John 3:16 is -- that as beautiful as it is -- it's not the end of the chapter, nor the gospel. Yet people want to say it's "the gospel in a nutshell". It's not, and it's taken out of context. I don't even know if I could point to a verse and say that. If I did, it would be Matthew 22:37 -40 (and most people screw that up by believing it says merely, "love your neighbor").

So when you look at John 3:16 it doesn't say God loves everybody. God loves only them that believe in him. You get down to verses 18 and 19, then you see the warning. In fact, it's not only a warning, its telling the truth.

This is a false interpretation of John 3:16. god loves everyone---even those who do not believe in Him---YET!

Romans 5:8
But God showed his great love for us by sending Christ to die for us while we were still sinners.

 

[FHII]

Living Stone wrote:

Loved??? It's LOVES!”

Me: Ok…. Let’s have a look.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (KJV)

Yea, it is "loved"! that's what the Bible says.... "Loved".

Living Stone wrote:

“and the world is EVERYONE.”

Please cite your reference. You cite Matthew 13:37-38 as the world being the field, not the people. The wheat and the tares are people, not the world. And the truth is God doesn’t love everyone. Case in point… Esau. In Romans 9:13 he said he hated him and the preceding verses note he hated him before he was ever born. Your own reference refutes your claim!

God hates other people too. He hates liars too. As well as those who sow discord amongst brethren. Not the lies, but liars. Look at Proverbs 6:19. It does not say he hates the action, but the actor.

Lively Stone wrote:
“The truth is that not everyone whom God loves comes to love the Lord back and therefore is not part of the Kingdom.”

Not everyone loves the Lord and the Lord doesn’t love everyone. The Lord loves his own…. His sheep, his sons. Not everyone are his sons.

Lively Stone wrote:

“It is pretty dangerous to over-interpret parables.”

John 3:16 isn’t even a parable! Is it dangerous to believe that every Word is important? Luke 4:4 and Matthew 4:4 seem to say that it’s important to live by EVERY WORD. So when one letter is the difference between “loves” and “loved”, I take notice.

How am I over-interpreting parables? It isn’t even a parable, but nonetheless, how am I over interpreting it?

Living Stone wrote:

“This is a false interpretation of John 3:16. god loves everyone---even those who do not believe in Him---YET!”

Prove it is a false interpretation of John 3:16. Prove it! “god” loves everyone? Prove it and explain to me why God hated Esau.

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward US….

Not everbody… US. Those that believe. Not everyone believes and you have to know how to believe to be the “us”.

 

[Lively Stone]

Oh. My. GOODNESS! Can the tense of the verb be any more misinterpreted??? The past tense of 'love' is only in agreement with the past tense of what God has done---namely, 'GIVEN' His only Son!

It is a Satanic LIE to declare that God doesn't love everyone. He certainly isn't the Father of everyone, but He is their loving Maker, and seeing as He loved me while I was a still a sinner and far from Him, that doesn't disqualify the most evil opf people even now, who have yet to meet Jesus!

Using the flimsy notion that God hated Esau reveals a misunderstanding of scriptural truth that teaches us that the word 'hate' there is used as a comparative, just the same as Jesus' declaration that we must 'hate' our mother and father in comparison to our love for God.

You will have to prove that God hates anyone, and Esau is not a case in your favour!

By your understanding, God must hate everyone, seeing as not one person is born believing in Jesus Christ! When, by your understanding, does God begin to love anyone, if we are all unbelievers at one time? Do you not see how incredibly absurd that is? Can you not comprehend that it is the great and unfathomable love of God toward us while we were still wallowing in our sin that caused God to provide salvation for us?

Romans 5:6-8
[sup]6[/sup] Christ died for us when we were unable to help ourselves. We were living against God, but at just the right time Christ died for us. [sup]7[/sup] Very few people will die to save the life of someone else, even if it is for a good person. Someone might be willing to die for an especially good person. [sup]8[/sup] But Christ died for us while we were still sinners, and by this God showed how much he loves us.
.

 

[FHII]

Oh. My. GOODNESS! Can the tense of the verb be any more misinterpreted??? The past tense of 'love' is only in agreement with the past tense of what God has done---namely, 'GIVEN' His only Son!

It is a Satanic LIE to declare that God doesn't love everyone. He certainly isn't the Father of everyone, but He is their loving Maker, and seeing as He loved me while I was a still a sinner and far from Him, that doesn't disqualify the most evil opf people even now, who have yet to meet Jesus!

Using the flimsy notion that God hated Esau reveals a misunderstanding of scriptural truth that teaches us that the word 'hate' there is used as a comparative, just the same as Jesus' declaration that we must 'hate' our mother and father in comparison to our love for God.

You will have to prove that God hates anyone, and Esau is not a case in your favour!
.

Do you really understand "tense"? Do you even have a Bible? I want to know! Because it doesn't say God "given" his only son, it says God, "God gave his only son".

It is a Satinic lie to say God doesn't love everyone? Yet he isn't the Father of everyone? Yea... Some of them are of the father the devil. But God loves them?

So I use a flimsy notion in that God hated Esau. But did God say it? How is it flimsy then? Didn't God say it? "Well it says hate mamma too"! Ye of little understanding! That verse says and mean that if you have to choose between God and family, then choose God!

I've done that, my daddy hates me for it and my mother isn't too keen on it either.

I've proved that God doesn't love everyone and the case of Esau is in my favor!

 

[Lively Stone]

Do you really understand "tense"? Do you even have a Bible? I want to know! Because it doesn't say God "given" his only son, it says God, "God gave his only son".

It is a Satinic lie to say God doesn't love everyone? Yet he isn't the Father of everyone? Yea... Some of them are of the father the devil. But God loves them?

So I use a flimsy notion in that God hated Esau. But did God say it? How is it flimsy then? Didn't God say it? "Well it says hate mamma too"! Ye of little understanding! That verse says and mean that if you have to choose between God and family, then choose God!

I've done that, my daddy hates me for it and my mother isn't too keen on it either.

I've proved that God doesn't love everyone and the case of Esau is in my favor!

I have received a paycheck as a literary editor. 'Gave' is past tense. "Loved' is in agreement with that.

Do you not get it that we, as sinners, by the power of the Holy Spirit have responded to the love of God, and received Jesus Christ?

You lack understanding about God and His great love, and of Him as Father. He is the creator of life, and we humans are His offspring, but He only becomes a Father to those who become His very own possessions by the blood of Jesus Christ. It is by the blood that we become adopted sons and daughters of God and heir to all that Jesus has.

More personal study is in order for you to comprehend the issue concerning Esau.

 

[FHII]

And you should pray more that God shows you the Truth.

Come on, Liver Stone... You are constantly contradicting yourself.... God "gave" his only son. He so "loved" the world.

I understand tense. Your literary editor should've asked for a refund!

I may lack understanding but not on this topic, The Holy Spirit told me I was right!

 

[Lively Stone]

And you should pray more that God shows you the Truth.

Come on, Liver Stone... You are constantly contradicting yourself.... God "gave" his only son. He so "loved" the world.

I understand tense. Your literary editor should've asked for a refund!

I may lack understanding but not on this topic, The Holy Spirit told me I was right!

Enough of the mockery.

I doubt by your attitude that you have full understanding of what God has communicated about His all-encompassing love, especially when GOD IS LOVE! You are dead wrong and need to not try to teach, especially seeing as you have been given the truth and are now responsible for it, and if you now reject it and continue in teaching a falsehood, you will be held accountable for that.

 

[FHII]

Enough of the mockery? Ok.... What about your attidude? What about your mockery? I need to learn about the birds and the bees? Yea... Real nice.

God is Love, and the Bible says that. But that is not all God is. God is also truth, jelousy and vengance. God said he was all of those, but you just wan to believe he is love. Funny how you don't show that to me, but that's not really important to me.

Jesus had an attitude too... By the way.

Let's face it, you have been dead wrong and provided no scripture on all your agruements... You simply have given me human philosophy on who you say God is.

 

[Lively Stone]

Enough of the mockery? Ok.... What about your attidude? What about your mockery? I need to learn about the birds and the bees? Yea... Real nice.

God is Love, and the Bible says that. But that is not all God is. God is also truth, jelousy and vengance. God said he was all of those, but you just wan to believe he is love. Funny how you don't show that to me, but that's not really important to me.

Jesus had an attitude too... By the way.

Let's face it, you have been dead wrong and provided no scripture on all your agruements... You simply have given me human philosophy on who you say God is.

God is Love and He possesses the qualities you state. I have never stated that God has no other attributes. He is a completely well-rounded God! He has anger, joy, sorrow and hatred, but He is none of those things---but He is Love.

For you to state that He doesn't love the sinner and the unlovely, when Jesus demonstrated it completely, then you are denying scripture, and perhaps misunderstand salvation. God loves everyone even in their sinful state. Otherwise none of us are candidates for His salvation which is a gift born out of complete love.

1 John 3:16a
We know what real love is because Jesus gave up his life for us.

Luke 19:10
For the Son of Man came to seek and save those who are lost.

1 John 4:19
We love Him because He first loved us.



In fact, I believe that those who call themselves Christians and maintain this belief that God hates sinners are actually hiding behind this belief to masquerade their own hatred of sinners. But God hates sin and His wrath abides on those who do not receive Christ. While sinners will be found unaccaptable in God's sight and rejected from citizenship in His Kingdom, it doesn;t mean that they are not loved by their Creator. Judgment Day will be a Day of God's great wrath and of His immense sorrow.

John 3:36
And anyone who believes in God’s Son has eternal life. Anyone who doesn’t obey the Son will never experience eternal life but remains under God’s angry judgment.”

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[FHII]

For you to state that He doesn't love the sinner and the unlovely, when Jesus demonstrated it completely, then you are denying scripture, and perhaps misunderstand salvation. 1 John 3:16a
We know what real love is because Jesus gave up his life for us.

When did I state that? I simply said that God doesn't love everyone, and I'm right. I never said God doesn't love the sinner, and didn't even touch on the "unlovey". What the heck is that? The "unlovey"?

God loves his own! Those that love God, he loves. You are right, it could be future tense. He loves us even if we don't love him now, but will love him later. But not every one will.

"loves", "loved"... "Hates", "hated".... Lively Stone.... Just get out of this arguement. The Bible says what it says. I've misquoted the Bible at times, but this ain't one of the times.

 

[logabe]

Paul's discussion of the chosen remnant in Romans 11:1-7 is a very
important key to understanding the entire idea of being chosen. In
essence, he tells us that while the whole nation of Israel was called
in a general sense, only a remnant of them actually attained the
promises. That remnant was also sovereignly chosen by God, Paul
says in verse 5.

In other words, King Ahab was not part of that remnant, and so he
was not one of the "chosen elect." He was a vessel of dishonor
(Rom. 9:22), chosen to persecute the remnant of grace. By this we
see that anyone can claim, with some element of truth, to be "chosen,"
but some Israelites are chosen as vessels of dishonor, while others are
chosen as vessels of honor. The latter are the chosen "remnant of
grace."

Paul's main point in these verses was to establish chosenness to the
sovereignty of God. This is his reason for linking it to "grace," because
if it were by works, then it would no longer be by grace (Rom. 11:6).
In other words, these were chosen prior to their birth, even as God
called Jacob and rejected Esau before they were born (Rom. 9:11).

Not only does the sovereignty of God take precedence over men's
genealogy, but so the law itself is in agreement. We are shown many
times that if Israelites violate certain laws, they risk being "cut off
from among their people." Being an Israelite was a matter of
citizenship, not of race or genealogy. The law always retained
authority over a man's genealogy. The law had the right to expel a
member of the tribe, even if his genealogy were proven to be
impeccable. The law only cared about his works.

The Abrahamic covenant did indeed establish that his seed would be
chosen to bless all families of the earth. However, Paul tells us that
only the remnant of grace actually attained to that promise, while the
rest were blinded.

Keep in mind that the chosen seed are the ones called to dispense
the blessings of God to all others--including the vessels of dishonor,
whether Israelites or foreigners. The "chosen" seed of Abraham,
then, are the true "children of Abraham," not on account of their
genealogy, but on account of their faith in Christ. Paul makes this
case in Galatians 3:9,

9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with
Abraham, the believer.

It is only as men come to the place of having faith in Jesus Christ
that they can join the seed of Abraham. Anything less than this
places them in the category of "vessels of dishonor." To be of the
seed of Abraham first requires faith, but that faith is proven to all
by a demonstration of one's works. That is what the book of James
tells us, and Paul agrees with this in Romans 6-8, where he
expounds upon the outworking of our faith.

Each individual's outworking of faith differs, but they all have one
thing in common--they do the works of their father, Abraham.
What work is that? It is summarized in the original call of Abraham
found in Gen. 12:3, "in you all the families of the earth shall
be blessed."

In other words, the demonstration of our faith in Christ, the proof
that we are the seed of Abraham (whether natural born or foreign),
is that this remnant of grace seeks to be a blessing to all the
families of the earth. That is the work of Abraham and his children.
Any deviation from this only proves that men are not really of
Abraham.


Logabe

 

[Lively Stone]

When did I state that? I simply said that God doesn't love everyone, and I'm right. I never said God doesn't love the sinner, and didn't even touch on the "unlovey". What the heck is that? The "unlovey"?

So...which people does God not love? That would certainly make them unlovely, wouldn't it?

God loves his own! Those that love God, he loves. You are right, it could be future tense. He loves us even if we don't love him now, but will love him later. But not every one will.

It is easy to love people who love you. We are called to love those who hate us.

Why is that?

BECAUSE GOD DOES!

Luke 6:32-36
[sup]32[/sup] “If you love only those who love you, why should you get credit for that? Even sinners love those who love them! [sup]33[/sup] And if you do good only to those who do good to you, why should you get credit? Even sinners do that much! [sup]34[/sup] And if you lend money only to those who can repay you, why should you get credit? Even sinners will lend to other sinners for a full return.
[sup]35[/sup] “Love your enemies! Do good to them. Lend to them without expecting to be repaid. Then your reward from heaven will be very great, and you will truly be acting as children of the Most High, for he is kind to those who are unthankful and wicked. [sup]36[/sup] You must be compassionate, just as your Father is compassionate.

"loves", "loved"... "Hates", "hated".... Lively Stone.... Just get out of this arguement. The Bible says what it says. I've misquoted the Bible at times, but this ain't one of the times.

You misinterpret Bible truth and need to stop.

 

[justaname]

Paul's discussion of the chosen remnant in Romans 11:1-7 is a very
important key to understanding the entire idea of being chosen. In
essence, he tells us that while the whole nation of Israel was called
in a general sense, only a remnant of them actually attained the
promises. That remnant was also sovereignly chosen by God, Paul
says in verse 5.

In other words, King Ahab was not part of that remnant, and so he
was not one of the "chosen elect." He was a vessel of dishonor
(Rom. 9:22), chosen to persecute the remnant of grace. By this we
see that anyone can claim, with some element of truth, to be "chosen,"
but some Israelites are chosen as vessels of dishonor, while others are
chosen as vessels of honor. The latter are the chosen "remnant of
grace."

Paul's main point in these verses was to establish chosenness to the
sovereignty of God. This is his reason for linking it to "grace," because
if it were by works, then it would no longer be by grace (Rom. 11:6).
In other words, these were chosen prior to their birth, even as God
called Jacob and rejected Esau before they were born (Rom. 9:11).

Not only does the sovereignty of God take precedence over men's
genealogy, but so the law itself is in agreement. We are shown many
times that if Israelites violate certain laws, they risk being "cut off
from among their people." Being an Israelite was a matter of
citizenship, not of race or genealogy. The law always retained
authority over a man's genealogy. The law had the right to expel a
member of the tribe, even if his genealogy were proven to be
impeccable. The law only cared about his works.

The Abrahamic covenant did indeed establish that his seed would be
chosen to bless all families of the earth. However, Paul tells us that
only the remnant of grace actually attained to that promise, while the
rest were blinded.

Keep in mind that the chosen seed are the ones called to dispense
the blessings of God to all others--including the vessels of dishonor,
whether Israelites or foreigners. The "chosen" seed of Abraham,
then, are the true "children of Abraham," not on account of their
genealogy, but on account of their faith in Christ. Paul makes this
case in Galatians 3:9,

9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with
Abraham, the believer.

It is only as men come to the place of having faith in Jesus Christ
that they can join the seed of Abraham. Anything less than this
places them in the category of "vessels of dishonor." To be of the
seed of Abraham first requires faith, but that faith is proven to all
by a demonstration of one's works. That is what the book of James
tells us, and Paul agrees with this in Romans 6-8, where he
expounds upon the outworking of our faith.

Each individual's outworking of faith differs, but they all have one
thing in common--they do the works of their father, Abraham.
What work is that? It is summarized in the original call of Abraham
found in Gen. 12:3, "in you all the families of the earth shall
be blessed."

In other words, the demonstration of our faith in Christ, the proof
that we are the seed of Abraham (whether natural born or foreign),
is that this remnant of grace seeks to be a blessing to all the
families of the earth. That is the work of Abraham and his children.
Any deviation from this only proves that men are not really of
Abraham.


Logabe

I like this, because it does not sway to the left or to the right, rather it walks the straight path as laid down by the apostles. This tells how God loves, by blessing all nations through Abraham. Also it shows how God rebukes the children of disobedience, all the time retaining the sovereignty of God. To be sure the call to Christ is for all, through Abraham all nations will be blessed, yet all are not chosen. Many are called, but few are chosen. Matthew 22:14

God is love. God separates the sheep from the goats, which is a demonstration of His godly love. Understand humankind loves evil over God. It is only through the work of God and His HolySpirit that we can overcome this truth. His elect are instruments of both wrath, as in the case of the Exodus generation, and love as in the case of our current dispensation. His love for the non elect is proven through the suffering of the saints, as God is love, yet His love for the saints is also proven through in the final judgement. All things are reconciled to the Father, and His judgements are just. Everyone one of us are evil, but God choses some of us for His purpose of honor. I fall to my face, for I am not worthy to be elected. Luke 5:8

I think the issue or problem arises when we do not understand the sovereignty of God. God is in control, yet He does not control everybody. We either have self control, an attribute of the HolySpirit, or are controlled by evil, sin, and self-servitude. Total depravity, we all need Jesus!

 

[John Zain]

So when you look at John 3:16 it doesn't say God loves everybody. God loves only them that believe in him.

Sorry, you didn't realize that I was getting off topic.
But, if you want to talk about the importance of love ...
Romans 8:
28 Meanwhile we can be sure that God works to see that everything that happens fits into a pattern
for the ultimate good of those who love Him and are called according to His purpose.
29 Before man existed, God knew those who were His. So He ordained that they should become
like His Son that He might be the eldest-born of a large family of brothers.
30 Thus it was that God called those whom He fore-ordained. He also justified them, making them
as righteous as Jesus. Beyond that He glorified them, making them partakers of Christ’s glory.

It is a Satanic LIE to declare that God doesn't love everyone.
He certainly isn't the Father of everyone, but He is their loving Maker,
and seeing as He loved me while I was a still a sinner and far from Him,
that doesn't disqualify the most evil of people even now, who have yet to meet Jesus!

Yes, this is all true ... but what do you say to this? ...
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves;
it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

I.E. God loves everyone, but does NOT give this gift to everyone.
I.E. God allows those He loves to go to Hell.

 

[FHII]

John, if you want to question me on the importance of love, you are going to lose that battle or we are going to come to an aggreance. I'm not downplaying the importance of Love. I do understand it. I have studied Romans 8 to the extent that I can quote it verse by verse... Can you do the same?

Love... Brethren. Jesus Christ. We are to love the brethren because Jesus is in us. Me. Mortal flesh, Christ is in me. I don't love anyone else but the Christ in me. And yet, I know that Christ dwells in other bodies besides mine. The only reason I love the brethren is because Jesus is in them. If I love them, then I love Jesus.

You folks are all waiting for Jesus to appear, but open your Bible, and he is there! You want to see a man 5"11" with a red beard and long hair. But you won't look in the mirror and see Jesus when he said I am with you and in you.

I love the brethren... Because Christ is in them. I hate humanity. But I don't know who all of my brethren is. The biggest fiend may turn from his ways and then he is part of the Body... That's why I'm kind to everyone.

This is going nowhere... Let me guess, no one gives a rat's ass and no one is with me on this. Right? And no one likes that I said "rat's ass"?

Ok

Living stone... Right now you are simply grasping at straws..... I ain't gonna give you no more straws to grasp on to. God hated Esau, God love the world (LOVED--- so I'm right) and he doesn't love everyone. The invitation is to everyone, but God knows and choses who will come. Predestination.... It's in the Bible. It says so....

 

[Lively Stone]

Yes, this is all true ... but what do you say to this? ...
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves;
it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

I.E. God loves everyone, but does NOT give this gift to everyone.
I.E. God allows those He loves to go to Hell.

It is not so much that God allows people to go to Hellfire, but it is their position before the Holy God that keeps them out of His presence. He loves them, but He cannot abide them due to unrepentant sin on them.

Living stone... Right now you are simply grasping at straws..... I ain't gonna give you no more straws to grasp on to. God hated Esau, God love the world (LOVED--- so I'm right) and he doesn't love everyone. The invitation is to everyone, but God knows and choses who will come. Predestination.... It's in the Bible. It says so....

Where does it say in scripture that God pre-determines who will receive Him? It is a lie. Rather, God says whosoever will. It is only we who have come to Christ that are predestined to become like Jesus Christ.

 

[ttruscott]

I wrote:

Lively Stone, on 18 February 2012 - 10:41 AM, said:
...
People are not foreordained to condemnation. ...

seems to contradict:

Lively Stone, on 17 February 2012 - 05:11 PM, said:
...
We are ALL predestined to the Lake of Fire at birth,
..
.

'Lively Stone' answered:

There is no contradiction. We are all born spiritually dead, but god gives us each an opportunity to know Him and to become reborn. None of us have beenpredetermined to the Lake of Fire, but have all been offered the same hope--Jesus Christ---and the same choice: accept Jesus Christ as your substitute for judgment and live. Reject Him and die.

Forordained (quote 1), Predestined, (quote 2) and predetermined (quote 3) all have the same meaning in Christian theology... not 2 meanings or even 3.

God bless,

Ted