Deborah_
Well-Known Member
You mean that Luke wrote his gospel under the influence of "bad doctrine"? That amounts to saying that the New Testament can't be trusted.It’s become lost knowledge. Bad doctrines did clean away with it.
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You mean that Luke wrote his gospel under the influence of "bad doctrine"? That amounts to saying that the New Testament can't be trusted.It’s become lost knowledge. Bad doctrines did clean away with it.
I would say without Christ, we are lost. Without the Holy Spirt and the sealing, we are lost, without the Father, we are lost.Believed, he was “ baptized” into the Body Of Christ.....without “ that” baptism, you are Lost....
If I did, I've changed my view since then, but just a little. I still believe that just knowing about Jesus is not enough; one must be born again of the Spirit. THEN starts the journey. So, it will either be your own will and knowledge of the commandments like the Jews (self-righteousness/unsaved) OR if before Christ died, then saved and previous sins were overlooked Romans 3:25. But now, it will be the power of the Spirit who is the author and finisher of our faith. The Spirit plants the laws of God He wants us to start with on our conscience and as long as we keep those we are deemed righteous and without sin. If we keep those, the Holy Spirit will plant more laws and knowledge on our conscience for us to then live up too. From faith to faith, and from glory to glory. Romans 1:17 says from faith to faith. Throughout out life we only need to live up to the level we are at. However, it we do not grow and keep what we know, quenching the Spirit, we may lose what we had in the beginning, and go back to our own vomit. If you want to see a parable from Jesus on this, go to Matthew 25 and read the parable of the talents. Jesus said to the first two, "well done thou good and faithful servant...", virtually the same thing, even though the first presented ten talents and the second only four. See? The last servant also received a starter talent to see what he would do with it, and he hid it in the ground. It was taken away from him and given to the most mature servant.By asking was he baptized or not, to me you are asking did he receive the down payment of the Holy Spirit? But I think I remember from talking with you a few years ago that you don’t believe there is a down payment and learning righteousness - you only believe there is holy/saved and not holy/unsaved. Did I remember that right?
Oh! Well that’s actually a pretty big change from a few years ago when I spoke with you. I can much more agree with you now that you leave some room for Gods mercy and acceptance toward those learning righteousness.If I did, I've changed my view since then, but just a little. I still believe that just knowing about Jesus is not enough; one must be born again of the Spirit. THEN starts the journey. So, it will either be your own will and knowledge of the commandments like the Jews (self-righteousness/unsaved), or it will be the power of the Spirit who is the author and finisher of our faith. The Spirit plants the laws of God He wants us to start with on our conscience and as long as we keep those we are deemed righteous and without sin. If we keep those, the Holy Spirit will plant more laws and knowledge on our conscience for us to then live up too. From faith to faith, and from glory to glory. Romans 1:17 says from faith to faith. Throughout out life we only need to live up to the level we are at. However, it we do not grow and keep what we know, quenching the Spirit, we may lose what we had in the beginning, and go back to our own vomit. If you want to see a parable from Jesus on this, go to Matthew 25 and read the parable of the talents. Jesus said to the first two, "well done thou good and faithful servant...", virtually the same thing, even though the first presented ten talents and the second only four. See? The last servant also received a starter talent to see what he would do with it, and he hid it in the ground. It was taken away from him and given to the most mature servant.
Walking in the Spirit would certainly give a cup of water if one saw someone in need. That's love.Oh! Well that’s actually a pretty big change from a few years ago when I spoke with you. I can much more agree with you now that you leave some room for Gods mercy and acceptance toward those learning righteousness.
Before you didn’t have as much balance in that.
I still didn’t hear in your above outline any mention of those who give one of Christs body a kindness (described as a cup of water) and it’s woven throughout the whole Bible and is in the parables, this idea that He will have mercy on whoever He chooses to show mercy, even DESPITE what religious men insist.
I still believe that just knowing about Jesus is not enough; one must be born again of the Spirit. THEN starts the journey.
Baptized by the Holy Spirit. His faith was present while on the cross. And Jesus assured him of his salvation that very day.Please give a reason for your answer. Carefully read the account in Luke 23.
Luke 23:
32 There were also two others, criminals, led with Him to be put to death. 33 And when they had come to the place called Calvary, there they crucified Him, and the criminals, one on the right hand and the other on the left. 34 Then Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do.”
And they divided His garments and cast lots. 35 And the people stood looking on. But even the rulers with them sneered, saying, “He saved others; let Him save Himself if He is the Christ, the chosen of God.”
36 The soldiers also mocked Him, coming and offering Him sour wine, 37 and saying, “If You are the King of the Jews, save Yourself.”
38 And an inscription also was [i]written over Him in letters of Greek, Latin, and Hebrew:
THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.
39 Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, “If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us.”
40 But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.” 42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”
43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
So then you do not believe he was ever baptized in water before going to the cross?Baptized by the Holy Spirit. His faith was present while on the cross. And Jesus assured him of his salvation that very day.
Of course someone walking in His Spirit in holiness would help His body. They would recognize the body of Christ. But the reaction of those in the parable shows they did NOT recognize His body. They did the kindness without knowing who they were helping. They just did the right thing and helped a person. Their reaction at being welcomed in is: huh…? When did we ever see You and help You or give you a kindness…?Walking in the Spirit would certainly give a cup of water if one saw someone in need. That's love.
And, yes, the levels of obedience still proves sinlessness. But not all needed obedience is revealed until more growth is seen.
The "levels" is the major change I've learned most recently. But it is still complete obedience to what you know. The "mercy" would be for what you don't know. We must just obey our conscience where the Holy Spirit authors His laws even as situations arise - like Him telling you to give money or water.
We can't know this. However, his knowledge of who Christ was and his imploring Jesus to remember him when he comes into his kingdom tells us he was regenerate.Becaude the natural mind wouldn't understand Jesus teaching.So then you do not believe he was ever baptized in water before going to the cross?
We can know who is a Christian by their fruit. Matthew 7. Christians are baptized. And his fruit was mature fruit, thus he's been a Christian for some time before they took him to jail.We can't know this. However, his knowledge of who Christ was and his imploring Jesus to remember him when he comes into his kingdom tells us he was regenerate.Becaude the natural mind wouldn't understand Jesus teaching.
And Jesus promised he would one day join him in paradise.
Has anyone emphatically claimed he wasn’t…? I know you emphatically claim he was, and yell about doctrines of demons, but…I wrote this post because of the doctrine of demons emphatically claiming that the thief on the cross was not baptized
Okay, you lost me here. What parable are you talking about? I only mentioned the talents.Of course someone walking in His Spirit in holiness would help His body. They would recognize the body of Christ. But the reaction of those in the parable shows they did NOT recognize His body. They did the kindness without knowing who they were helping. They just did the right thing and helped a person. Their reaction at being welcomed in is: huh…? When did we ever see You and help You or give you a kindness…?
In contrast, the second group says, what?? When did we ever see You in need and NOT help You…?!
Both groups were not walking in holiness. Both groups did not recognize Christs body. But one group did the right/righteous thing to help one they saw in need and one group did not do the right thing.
31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32 And all the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, just as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats;33 and He will put the sheep on His right, but the goats on the left.Okay, you lost me here. What parable are you talking about? I only mentioned the talents.
And all whose names were not written in the book of life , were cast into the lake of fire . DONT let these inclusiviansPlay around with God's word to suit your own ideations and make lies into YOUR truth; God will certainly let you.
REMEMBER THIS.......
GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE, HIS MEMORY IS NOT SLACK NOR HIS EYE BLIND TO SIN UNLESS YOU ....REPENT !
Twist, erase, even redact his Holy Writ but an account will be held & all markers will be called in to pay to the upmost for your sins by YOU, THE REJECTER, for you rejected his redemption along with HIS TRUTH !
The WARNING HAS BEEN SOUNDED...AGAIN & AGAIN. ONE DAY YOUR LAST WARNING WILL COME. Then all the truth you have denied will be your judgment ! There will be no excuse, " I was taught", " I searched out for myself", " I'm a righteous student of your word ; just NOT ACCORDING TO YOUR HOLY SPIRIT !....... yada yada.
Your number will be called but your name has been BLOTTED OUT !
and who soever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire .Neither group discerned the body.
This parable deals with the second judgement.
Believers were already judged. By their works. From one of the books. A thousand years prior.
But in this judgement, there is a lot of mercy for some who were not in the first resurrection.