Was the Thief on the Cross Baptized or Not?

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1stCenturyLady

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Please give a reason for your answer. Carefully read the account in Luke 23.

Luke 23:
32 There were also two others, criminals, led with Him to be put to death. 33 And when they had come to the place called Calvary, there they crucified Him, and the criminals, one on the right hand and the other on the left. 34 Then Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do.”

And they divided His garments and cast lots. 35 And the people stood looking on. But even the rulers with them sneered, saying, “He saved others; let Him save Himself if He is the Christ, the chosen of God.”


36 The soldiers also mocked Him, coming and offering Him sour wine, 37 and saying, “If You are the King of the Jews, save Yourself.”

38 And an inscription also was [i]written over Him in letters of Greek, Latin, and Hebrew:

THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.


39 Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, “If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us.”

40 But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.” 42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”


43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
 
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Aunty Jane

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Please give a reason for your answer. Here is the account in Luke 23.

Luke 23:
32 There were also two others, criminals, led with Him to be put to death. 33 And when they had come to the place called Calvary, there they crucified Him, and the criminals, one on the right hand and the other on the left. 34 Then Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do.”
Who was God asking forgiveness for? The criminals? The Jews who fabricated charges of blasphemy against him? Or the Roman soldiers who drove in the nails?
Since the scriptures tell us that death pays for even serious sins, the deaths of the criminals would give them a chance of the resurrection, this is what Jews believed.....so not the criminals.
The Jews who lied to have Jesus illegally tried, and then blackmailed Pilate into having him put to death? There could be no forgiveness for them...their fate was already sealed. (Matt 23:33)
So it was the Roman soldiers who had no interest in who Jesus was, and didn't care about who he claimed to be....they were just doing their job....and we know that the Romans were cruel people who thrived on bloodshed as part of their culture. They acted in ignorance.
And they divided His garments and cast lots. 35 And the people stood looking on. But even the rulers with them sneered, saying, “He saved others; let Him save Himself if He is the Christ, the chosen of God.”

36 The soldiers also mocked Him, coming and offering Him sour wine, 37 and saying, “If You are the King of the Jews, save Yourself.”

38 And an inscription also was [i]written over Him in letters of Greek, Latin, and Hebrew:

THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.
Pilate appeased the Jews who clamored for Jesus' death only after they threatened his political position. They were going to report him to Caesar for treason which was a capital offense. He had Jesus flogged and in a very poor physical state the Romans had no compunction in adding to his pain as they impaled him to die in agony.
39 Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, “If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us.”

40 But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.” 42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”


43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
This promise made to one of the thieves is heart warming for two reasons....firstly, the repentant attitude of the man who asked to be remembered when Christ got into his Kingdom, meant that he acknowledged Jesus as Messiah. Because Jesus only preached to the Jews, this criminal was obviously Jewish.....he knew that they deserved their just punishment under Roman law, but that Jesus was an innocent man.

Pilate had stated that he found nothing criminal about his activities....but the Jews cried out for for his death, even cursing themselves and their children with his blood. (Matthew 27:25) Who misled them?

Secondly as a Jew, the man also knew what Jesus meant when he said..."you will be with me in paradise".

The controversial part of that verse is the addition of a comma that changes the whole meaning of what Jesus said.
"And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
There is no punctuation in Greek, so the comma is placed at the discretion of the translator. But if you put the comma after the word "today" the whole meaning of the verse changes the time frame.
"And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you today, you will be with me in paradise.”
Its very subtle but satan is good at that.
We have to ask which placement of the comma is the correct one, by using the scriptures themselves to answer that question.

Did Jesus go to paradise that day? And what is the "paradise" that he referred to? Since the Jews did not have any belief in an immortal soul (no such belief exited in the Jewish scriptures) it was adopted later, influenced by Plato....a Greek philosopher. (Adopted also by Christendom in the early centuries.)
The Jewish belief was that Messiah would be a human in the family line of David, and he would sit on an earthly throne and establish his Kingdom on earth with the Jews making up "the royal priesthood an a holy nation" as God had promised through Moses. (Exodus 19:5-6)

They knew nothing about the heavenly nature of the Kingdom and did not expect to go there. "Paradise" to a Jew meant the earthly paradise that Adam and his wife lost for all their children. Messiah was going to come and reinstate that paradise and rule on earth for the blessing of all the nations.

Now what about Jesus? What did he say about where he would be the day he died?
Matthew 12:38-40...
"Then as an answer to him, some of the scribes and the Pharisees said: “Teacher, we want to see a sign from you.” 39 In reply he said to them: “A wicked and adulterous generation keeps on seeking a sign, but no sign will be given it except the sign of Joʹnah the prophet. 40 For just as Joʹnah was in the belly of the huge fish for three days and three nights, so the Son of man will be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights."

Jesus was not going to be anywhere the day he died, in fact he was going to be in his grave "the heart of the earth" for three days and nights. Just as Jonah was confined in the belly of the fish, so Jesus would be confined in his grave, making the promise to the thief something other than what Christendom wants to think it does. And Jesus remained here on the earth for 40 days prior to his ascension. So he did not return to heaven that day, or in the following 40 days after his resurrection. (Acts 1:3)

So, moving the comma to the correct place, (after the word "today") gives us the truth about what Jesus promised to the thief that day.
It was a promise made that day, for the man to be resurrected in paradise (not heaven) when Jesus brought his Kingdom to rule this earth. (Rev 21:1-4)

Those raised to heaven, Jesus said are the ones who had lived a faithful life of obedience to his teachings and who had died faithful.....this rules out last minute death bed conversions....though, like the thief, an earthly resurrection is promised even for those who did vile things. They paid for their sins with their own lives....Jesus' sacrifice gives them another chance to be 'saved'. They will have a judgment period....the thousand year reign of God's Kingdom.

"Do not be amazed at this, because a time is coming when all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come out—those who have done good things, to the resurrection of life, but those who have done wicked things, to the resurrection of judgment." (John 5:28-29)

That is how I understand the scriptures on this topic.
 
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BeyondET

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Who was God asking forgiveness for? The criminals? The Jews who fabricated charges of blasphemy against him? Or the Roman soldiers who drove in the nails?
Since the scriptures tell us that death pays for even serious sins, the deaths of the criminals would give them a chance of the resurrection, this is what Jews believed.....so not the criminals.
The Jews who lied to have Jesus illegally tried, and then blackmailed Pilate into having him put to death? There could be no forgiveness for them...their fate was already sealed. (Matt 23:33)
So it was the Roman soldiers who had no interest in who Jesus was, and didn't care about who he claimed to be....they were just doing their job....and we know that the Romans were cruel people who thrived on bloodshed as part of their culture. They acted in ignorance.

Pilate appeased the Jews who clamored for Jesus' death only after they threatened his political position. They were going to report him to Caesar for treason which was a capital offense. He had Jesus flogged and in a very poor physical state the Romans had no compunction in adding to his pain as they impaled him to die in agony.

This promise made to one of the thieves is heart warming for two reasons....firstly, the repentant attitude of the man who asked to be remembered when Christ got into his Kingdom, meant that he acknowledged Jesus as Messiah. Because Jesus only preached to the Jews, this criminal was obviously Jewish.....he knew that they deserved their just punishment under Roman law, but that Jesus was an innocent man.

Pilate had stated that he found nothing criminal about his activities....but the Jews cried out for for his death, even cursing themselves and their children with his blood. (Matthew 27:25) Who misled them?

Secondly as a Jew, the man also knew what Jesus meant when he said..."you will be with me in paradise".

The controversial part of that verse is the addition of a comma that changes the whole meaning of what Jesus said.
"And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
There is no punctuation in Greek, so the comma is placed at the discretion of the translator. But if you put the comma after the word "today" the whole meaning of the verse changes the time frame.
"And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you today, you will be with me in paradise.”
Its very subtle but satan is good at that.
We have to ask which placement of the comma is the correct one, by using the scriptures themselves to answer that question.

Did Jesus go to paradise that day? And what is the "paradise" that he referred to? Since the Jews did not have any belief in an immortal soul (no such belief exited in the Jewish scriptures) it was adopted later, influenced by Plato....a Greek philosopher. (Adopted also by Christendom in the early centuries.)
The Jewish belief was that Messiah would be a human in the family line of David, and he would sit on an earthly throne and establish his Kingdom on earth with the Jews making up "the royal priesthood an a holy nation" as God had promised through Moses. (Exodus 19:5-6)

They knew nothing about the heavenly nature of the Kingdom and did not expect to go there. "Paradise" to a Jew meant the earthly paradise that Adam and his wife lost for all their children. Messiah was going to come and reinstate that paradise and rule on earth for the blessing of all the nations.

Now what about Jesus? What did he say about where he would be the day he died?
Matthew 12:38-40...
"Then as an answer to him, some of the scribes and the Pharisees said: “Teacher, we want to see a sign from you.” 39 In reply he said to them: “A wicked and adulterous generation keeps on seeking a sign, but no sign will be given it except the sign of Joʹnah the prophet. 40 For just as Joʹnah was in the belly of the huge fish for three days and three nights, so the Son of man will be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights."

Jesus was not going to be anywhere the day he died, in fact he was going to be in his grave "the heart of the earth" for three days and nights. Just as Jonah was confined in the belly of the fish, so Jesus would be confined in his grave, making the promise to the thief something other than what Christendom wants to think it does. And Jesus remained here on the earth for 40 days prior to his ascension. So he did not return to heaven that day, or in the following 40 days after his resurrection. (Acts 1:3)

So, moving the comma to the correct place, (after the word "today") gives us the truth about what Jesus promised to the thief that day.
It was a promise made that day, for the man to be resurrected in paradise (not heaven) when Jesus brought his Kingdom to rule this earth. (Rev 21:1-4)

Those raised to heaven, Jesus said are the ones who had lived a faithful life of obedience to his teachings and who had died faithful.....this rules out last minute death bed conversions....though, like the thief, an earthly resurrection is promised even for those who did vile things. They paid for their sins with their own lives....Jesus' sacrifice gives them another chance to be 'saved'. They will have a judgment period....the thousand year reign of God's Kingdom.

"Do not be amazed at this, because a time is coming when all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come out—those who have done good things, to the resurrection of life, but those who have done wicked things, to the resurrection of judgment." (John 5:28-29)

That is how I understand the scriptures on this topic.
The word would be better suited a bit before. but clearly not meaning that day.

"And he said to him, “ today truly I say, you will be with me in paradise.”
 

BeyondET

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Though two other Gospels mention both robbers was tossing insults. Did one have a moment of change or what?
 
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Keturah

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Play around with God's word to suit your own ideations and make lies into YOUR truth; God will certainly let you.

REMEMBER THIS.......
GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE, HIS MEMORY IS NOT SLACK NOR HIS EYE BLIND TO SIN UNLESS YOU ....REPENT !

Twist, erase, even redact his Holy Writ but an account will be held & all markers will be called in to pay to the upmost for your sins by YOU, THE REJECTER, for you rejected his redemption along with HIS TRUTH !

The WARNING HAS BEEN SOUNDED...AGAIN & AGAIN. ONE DAY YOUR LAST WARNING WILL COME. Then all the truth you have denied will be your judgment ! There will be no excuse, " I was taught", " I searched out for myself", " I'm a righteous student of your word ; just NOT ACCORDING TO YOUR HOLY SPIRIT !....... yada yada.

Your number will be called but your name has been BLOTTED OUT !
 

Keturah

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In addressing the OP, baptism DOES NOT SAVE ANYONE EVER ! So it does not matter whether he was baptized.

Only by the blood of the lamb can a person be saved;
& Jesus Christ, God made flesh among man is the ONLY way for this to be accomplished!

By GRACE through FAITH, not of ourselves, but by his tender mercies which are NEW each day can we be saved.

Works of self-righteousness, traditions of man, means your outside cup may be clean but your inside is putrid, filthy & a stench in the nostrils of the creator, the " I AM" the 1st, the last and all that ever was or will be is our only hope. ALMIGHTY GOD !

Jesus said " TODAY ", and it was that very day!

Just as we are told " TODAY, IS THE DAY OF YOUR SALVATION "...... Come & let us reason together while it is called today !
 

mailmandan

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Some believe that that thief on the cross may have been converted, was water baptized, and the fruit of that is being crucified as a thief? - (highly unlikely)

In Matthew 27:39-43, we see that those who passed by, along with the chief priests scribes and elders blasphemed, mocked and shook their heads at Jesus and EVEN THE ROBBERS WHO WERE CRUCIFIED WITH HIM REVILED HIM WITH THE SAME THING. More fruit? I certainly don't see being crucified as a thief, blaspheming, mocking and shaking your head at Jesus as being the fruit of repentance/faith. Yet, moments later, we see that the thief had a "change of mind" (repentance) placed his faith in Christ for salvation and was saved (Luke 23:39-43). Of course, he died before having the opportunity to be water baptized after that.
 

Johann

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Who was God asking forgiveness for? The criminals? The Jews who fabricated charges of blasphemy against him? Or the Roman soldiers who drove in the nails?
Since the scriptures tell us that death pays for even serious sins, the deaths of the criminals would give them a chance of the resurrection, this is what Jews believed.....so not the criminals.
The Jews who lied to have Jesus illegally tried, and then blackmailed Pilate into having him put to death? There could be no forgiveness for them...their fate was already sealed. (Matt 23:33)
So it was the Roman soldiers who had no interest in who Jesus was, and didn't care about who he claimed to be....they were just doing their job....and we know that the Romans were cruel people who thrived on bloodshed as part of their culture. They acted in ignorance.

Pilate appeased the Jews who clamored for Jesus' death only after they threatened his political position. They were going to report him to Caesar for treason which was a capital offense. He had Jesus flogged and in a very poor physical state the Romans had no compunction in adding to his pain as they impaled him to die in agony.

This promise made to one of the thieves is heart warming for two reasons....firstly, the repentant attitude of the man who asked to be remembered when Christ got into his Kingdom, meant that he acknowledged Jesus as Messiah. Because Jesus only preached to the Jews, this criminal was obviously Jewish.....he knew that they deserved their just punishment under Roman law, but that Jesus was an innocent man.

Pilate had stated that he found nothing criminal about his activities....but the Jews cried out for for his death, even cursing themselves and their children with his blood. (Matthew 27:25) Who misled them?

Secondly as a Jew, the man also knew what Jesus meant when he said..."you will be with me in paradise".

The controversial part of that verse is the addition of a comma that changes the whole meaning of what Jesus said.
"And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
There is no punctuation in Greek, so the comma is placed at the discretion of the translator. But if you put the comma after the word "today" the whole meaning of the verse changes the time frame.
"And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you today, you will be with me in paradise.”
Its very subtle but satan is good at that.
We have to ask which placement of the comma is the correct one, by using the scriptures themselves to answer that question.

Did Jesus go to paradise that day? And what is the "paradise" that he referred to? Since the Jews did not have any belief in an immortal soul (no such belief exited in the Jewish scriptures) it was adopted later, influenced by Plato....a Greek philosopher. (Adopted also by Christendom in the early centuries.)
The Jewish belief was that Messiah would be a human in the family line of David, and he would sit on an earthly throne and establish his Kingdom on earth with the Jews making up "the royal priesthood an a holy nation" as God had promised through Moses. (Exodus 19:5-6)

They knew nothing about the heavenly nature of the Kingdom and did not expect to go there. "Paradise" to a Jew meant the earthly paradise that Adam and his wife lost for all their children. Messiah was going to come and reinstate that paradise and rule on earth for the blessing of all the nations.

Now what about Jesus? What did he say about where he would be the day he died?
Matthew 12:38-40...
"Then as an answer to him, some of the scribes and the Pharisees said: “Teacher, we want to see a sign from you.” 39 In reply he said to them: “A wicked and adulterous generation keeps on seeking a sign, but no sign will be given it except the sign of Joʹnah the prophet. 40 For just as Joʹnah was in the belly of the huge fish for three days and three nights, so the Son of man will be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights."

Jesus was not going to be anywhere the day he died, in fact he was going to be in his grave "the heart of the earth" for three days and nights. Just as Jonah was confined in the belly of the fish, so Jesus would be confined in his grave, making the promise to the thief something other than what Christendom wants to think it does. And Jesus remained here on the earth for 40 days prior to his ascension. So he did not return to heaven that day, or in the following 40 days after his resurrection. (Acts 1:3)

So, moving the comma to the correct place, (after the word "today") gives us the truth about what Jesus promised to the thief that day.
It was a promise made that day, for the man to be resurrected in paradise (not heaven) when Jesus brought his Kingdom to rule this earth. (Rev 21:1-4)

Those raised to heaven, Jesus said are the ones who had lived a faithful life of obedience to his teachings and who had died faithful.....this rules out last minute death bed conversions....though, like the thief, an earthly resurrection is promised even for those who did vile things. They paid for their sins with their own lives....Jesus' sacrifice gives them another chance to be 'saved'. They will have a judgment period....the thousand year reign of God's Kingdom.

"Do not be amazed at this, because a time is coming when all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come out—those who have done good things, to the resurrection of life, but those who have done wicked things, to the resurrection of judgment." (John 5:28-29)

That is how I understand the scriptures on this topic.
It is common knowledge that punctuation, including commas, was introduced into the biblical manuscripts centuries after the books were completed. Therefore, commas are not authoritative.

However, the placement of commas can affect our understanding of a text. For example, in Luke 23, one of the thieves crucified next to Jesus says, “‘Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.’ Jesus answered him, ‘I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise’” (verses 42-43). Commas help us keep the original phrasing intact. Was Jesus saying, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me . . .” (meaning that “today” is when the thief would be in paradise)? Or was He saying, “I tell you the truth today, you will be with me . . .” (meaning that “today” is when Jesus was speaking”)?

First, we note that every major Bible translation inserts the comma before the word today. Thus, the KJV, NKJV, NASB, NIV, ESV, and RSV all agree that Jesus was speaking of the time that the thief would enter paradise. The thief would be in paradise with Jesus on that very same day.

Also, Jesus prefaced His response with the phrase, “I tell you the truth” (“Verily I say unto thee” in the KJV). Many scholars have noticed that Jesus uses this as a prefix phrase when He is about to say something that should be listened to with care. Seventy-six times in the New Testament, Jesus uses the phrase. Interestingly, no one but Jesus ever says it. When the Lord says “I tell you the truth,” He is affirming that what He is about to say is worthy of special attention. It was Jesus’ way of saying, “Listen up! What I’m about to say is very important and should be listened to carefully.” We’re too used to hearing the phrase to appreciate the astonishing authority it expresses and the often solemn nature of the announcement that follows. In every one of the 76 times Christ uses this introductory phrase, He simply says it and then makes a startling statement.

It would be strange indeed if, in this one instance, Jesus departed from His normal way of making His signature statement by adding the word today to it. In every case where this sort of introductory phrase is used, Greek scholars add a punctuation break after the phrase in question and before the rest of the statement. So, the translators have it right. The comma in Luke 23:43 belongs where they put it.

This brings us to another question. If Jesus was buried and rose after three days and then many days later ascended to heaven, how could He have been in paradise with the thief?

After Christ died, it was His body that was buried in the tomb. However, Jesus’ spirit/soul was not in the tomb. Jesus’ spirit was in the Father’s presence (Luke 23:46; Ephesians 4:8). See more information in our article here.

As Jesus was hanging on the cross, paying our penalty for sin, He made a promise to a dying, repentant thief. By the grace of God and the power of Christ, that promise was kept. The thief’s sins were washed away, and his death that day was his entrance to paradise.


This makes sense to me @Taken
 

Johann

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Some believe that that thief on the cross may have been converted, was water baptized, and the fruit of that is being crucified as a thief? - (highly unlikely)

In Matthew 27:39-43, we see that those who passed by, along with the chief priests scribes and elders blasphemed, mocked and shook their heads at Jesus and EVEN THE ROBBERS WHO WERE CRUCIFIED WITH HIM REVILED HIM WITH THE SAME THING. More fruit? I certainly don't see being crucified as a thief, blaspheming, mocking and shaking your head at Jesus as being the fruit of repentance/faith. Yet, moments later, we see that the thief had a "change of mind" (repentance) placed his faith in Christ for salvation and was saved (Luke 23:39-43). Of course, he died before having the opportunity to be water baptized after that.
Question, did the penitent thief gone to be with our Lord that very same day @mailmandan?
I say yes.
J.
 

Johann

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Some believe that that thief on the cross may have been converted, was water baptized, and the fruit of that is being crucified as a thief? - (highly unlikely)

In Matthew 27:39-43, we see that those who passed by, along with the chief priests scribes and elders blasphemed, mocked and shook their heads at Jesus and EVEN THE ROBBERS WHO WERE CRUCIFIED WITH HIM REVILED HIM WITH THE SAME THING. More fruit? I certainly don't see being crucified as a thief, blaspheming, mocking and shaking your head at Jesus as being the fruit of repentance/faith. Yet, moments later, we see that the thief had a "change of mind" (repentance) placed his faith in Christ for salvation and was saved (Luke 23:39-43). Of course, he died before having the opportunity to be water baptized after that.
Keep this up brother.
J.
 

Johann

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Luke 23:43 is crystal clear to me - And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise."
Amen brother, few here really motivates me and even I have it not "right" all the time, but I am sure glad we are working together.
Stay strong in Christ Jesus.
J.
 

Lambano

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Dr. Luke said:
43 And Jesus said to him, “Amen, amen I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
Or maybe Dr. Luke said:
43 And Jesus said to him, “Amen, amen, I say to you today, you will be with Me in Paradise.”
I have no idea what Time looks like on that side of Death, but the next thing the Thief will know when he wakes up at the Resurrection of the Dead is that he is with Jesus in Paradise.

Amen and amen.

He has Jesus's promise. Does it matter one bit if he was baptized or not?
 
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Taken

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It is common knowledge that punctuation, including commas, was introduced into the biblical manuscripts centuries after the books were completed. Therefore, commas are not authoritative.

However, the placement of commas can affect our understanding of a text.

Agree...

Book(S), Chapter(S), Verses(S), Punctuation....certainly mans works,
ALL designed for congruity, flow, harmony, reference.

ALL Scripture IS TRUE...
However ALL Scripture DOES NOT apply to EVERY individual.

For example a mans soul that IS Saved, need not be concerned about Negative Warnings of an unSaved soul.

For example a mans spirit that IS Quickened, need not be concerned about
Negative Warnings of a an unQuickened ( born again ) spirit.

Interestingly...
Many “verses” in Scripture, addresses the SAVED and UNSAVED in the same one “verse”. And often the “punctuation” delineates.

Years ago, I was working on my family history background, broadly called genealogy research. I had one direct line that had a family of 16 kids, and 6 were boys of military age during the US Civil war. One I know of kept a diary, and I was able to secure a copy of that diary. No waste of paper. Every day abbreviated, and writing filled the entire page without a single punctuation. When the year date changed that was noted. It was in cursive, along with a few misspell words, and obvious size of each page was about 5x7.
Point being, difficult to read without punctuation!
I made my own copy, with the prelude of stating I added punctuation and my copy was typed on 9X11 paper. Mine finished at 137 pages.
Of course very interesting to me...but again the POINT...”punctuation” definitely added to the flow and delineation of what applied to what and who.


(By some comments on this forum, I am hesitant to believe, that all comprehend, one verse can be speaking about direct opposites. )

Glory to God,
Taken
 

stunnedbygrace

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Please give a reason for your answer. Carefully read the account in Luke 23.

Luke 23:
32 There were also two others, criminals, led with Him to be put to death. 33 And when they had come to the place called Calvary, there they crucified Him, and the criminals, one on the right hand and the other on the left. 34 Then Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do.”

And they divided His garments and cast lots. 35 And the people stood looking on. But even the rulers with them sneered, saying, “He saved others; let Him save Himself if He is the Christ, the chosen of God.”


36 The soldiers also mocked Him, coming and offering Him sour wine, 37 and saying, “If You are the King of the Jews, save Yourself.”

38 And an inscription also was [i]written over Him in letters of Greek, Latin, and Hebrew:

THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.


39 Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, “If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us.”

40 But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.” 42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”


43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
By asking was he baptized or not, to me you are asking did he receive the down payment of the Holy Spirit? But I think I remember from talking with you a few years ago that you don’t believe there is a down payment and learning righteousness - you only believe there is holy/saved and not holy/unsaved. Did I remember that right?
 

Johann

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Agree...

Book(S), Chapter(S), Verses(S), Punctuation....certainly mans works,
ALL designed for congruity, flow, harmony, reference.

ALL Scripture IS TRUE...
However ALL Scripture DOES NOT apply to EVERY individual.

For example a mans soul that IS Saved, need not be concerned about Negative Warnings of an unSaved soul.

For example a mans spirit that IS Quickened, need not be concerned about
Negative Warnings of a an unQuickened ( born again ) spirit.

Interestingly...
Many “verses” in Scripture, addresses the SAVED and UNSAVED in the same one “verse”. And often the “punctuation” delineates.

Years ago, I was working on my family history background, broadly called genealogy research. I had one direct line that had a family of 16 kids, and 6 were boys of military age during the US Civil war. One I know of kept a diary, and I was able to secure a copy of that diary. No waste of paper. Every day abbreviated, and writing filled the entire page without a single punctuation. When the year date changed that was noted. It was in cursive, along with a few misspell words, and obvious size of each page was about 5x7.
Point being, difficult to read without punctuation!
I made my own copy, with the prelude of stating I added punctuation and my copy was typed on 9X11 paper. Mine finished at 137 pages.
Of course very interesting to me...but again the POINT...”punctuation” definitely added to the flow and delineation of what applied to what and who.


(By some comments on this forum, I am hesitant to believe, that all comprehend, one verse can be speaking about direct opposites. )

Glory to God,
Taken
In full agreement
ALL Scripture IS TRUE...

However ALL Scripture DOES NOT apply to EVERY individual.

# Absolutely spot on

For example a mans soul that IS Saved, need not be concerned about Negative Warnings of an unSaved soul.



For example a mans spirit that IS Quickened, need not be concerned about

Negative Warnings of a an unQuickened ( born again ) spirit.



Interestingly...

Many “verses” in Scripture, addresses the SAVED and UNSAVED in the same one “verse”. And often the “punctuation” delineates.

...a good example...

Mat 25:2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

many more references can be found.

Glory to God
J.
 

Gospel Believer

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Please give a reason for your answer. Carefully read the account in Luke 23.

Luke 23:
32 There were also two others, criminals, led with Him to be put to death. 33 And when they had come to the place called Calvary, there they crucified Him, and the criminals, one on the right hand and the other on the left. 34 Then Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do.”

And they divided His garments and cast lots. 35 And the people stood looking on. But even the rulers with them sneered, saying, “He saved others; let Him save Himself if He is the Christ, the chosen of God.”


36 The soldiers also mocked Him, coming and offering Him sour wine, 37 and saying, “If You are the King of the Jews, save Yourself.”

38 And an inscription also was [i]written over Him in letters of Greek, Latin, and Hebrew:

THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.


39 Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, “If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us.”

40 But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.” 42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”


43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”


The Thief That received Salvation on that terrible day obtained it the same way that everybody else does ...he Believed that Jesus was Who he claimed to be....and, most assuredly, he underwent “ baptism” .....the one that actually COUNTS —- at the moment he Believed, he was “ baptized” into the Body Of Christ.....without “ that” baptism, you are Lost....
 

stunnedbygrace

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The Thief That received Salvation on that terrible day obtained it the same way that everybody else does ...he Believed that Jesus was Who he claimed to be....and, most assuredly, he underwent “ baptism” .....the one that actually COUNTS —- at the moment he Believed, he was “ baptized” into the Body Of Christ.....without “ that” baptism, you are Lost....
I’m not at all sure of that. It all was happening at a changing point, that point being the differences of before Jesus died and after He died.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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Was the Thief on the Cross Baptized or Not?​

We don't know. We are not told - and if baptism was essential to salvation, we would have been told.
It’s become lost knowledge. Bad doctrines did clean away with it.